Really stinky situation on the home front

Hi guys,

I searched the threads for some advice, but came up empty and decided to ask for some help, because it's really stinky around our place.

First let me say that I'm aware of the recent Diamond recalls, not at all happy about that, but what I have is not on the recall lists, yet.

I switched my cats from Purina One to Diamond Active Cat two months ago, because I really wanted to feed them a better dry food. You should know I feed 30+ cats with my rescue and TNR work and do feed raw and canned in addition, but could not continue this work if I did not supplement with some dry.

My problem lies with the eight inside cats since they are using litter boxes. I have seven of them and they are scooped 3 times a day every day, no matter what.

I thought feeding them dry that doesn't contain corn, wheat, soy or by products would be good for them, but in light of the smell I have to question that.

Another thing I've noticed is they seem to be pooing more on this food, what's up with that I have to wonder.

They don't beg for food the way they used to which led me to believe they were more satisfied, again I have to wonder how that's possible when most of it seems to end up in the litter boxes.

Any advice or thoughts you might have with this, not so pleasant situation would be greatly appreciated.

Did you do a gradual change-over to the new food? A sudden change in dry food can cause problems (wet food doesn't seem to matter so much).

I see a couple of possible reasons here, both related to the change in food. You got rid of the corn and wheat but if you look at the ingredient list for the Diamond Active Cat food you'll see that rice is the second ingredient.

Ingredients

Chicken meal, ground rice, chicken fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols), natural chicken flavor, flaxseed, powdered cellulose, sodium bisulfate, salmon oil (a source of DHA), fish meal, potassium chloride, DL-methionine, choline chloride, taurine, dried chicory root, zinc proteinate, vitamin E supplement, niacin, manganese proteinate, copper proteinate, zinc sulfate, manganese sulfate, copper sulfate, thiamine mononitrate, vitamin A supplement, biotin, potassium iodide, calcium pantothenate, riboflavin, pyridoxine hydrochloride (vitamin B6), vitamin B12 supplement, manganous oxide, sodium selenite, vitamin D supplement, folic acid.

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That's a lot of rice, which is mostly indigestible for cats, and could be the reason you're seeing more poop in the litter boxes.

You've also gone from approximately 34% protein and 13% fat to 40% protein and 20% fat. While it might sound good, not all cats can handle the higher protein. That could be where the stinky part comes in.

I would recommend feeding grain-free dry food (no wheat, rice, barley, or corn). I also have eight cats and it does get expensive. However, the cost evens out a little because they don't eat as much of it, plus they don't poop as much so it cuts down on the litter use as well.

Thanks so much for clearing this up. Yes, I did mix the two dry foods and gradually added more of the Diamond over the course of two weeks.

After you pointed out the amount of rice, yes that is a lot of rice and would explain the extra waste. I do believe you're right about the higher percentage of protein being the reason for the smell too.

I will take your advice on getting a grain free dry food and I can see how the cost would even out with not buying so much cat litter.

If you feed your cats dry, do you mind sharing what kind you use?

Thanks ever so much, now I don't have to move out and give the house to the cats
 

I use a mix of Taste of the Wild and Solid Gold Indigo Moon. I like the Indigo Moon ingredients a little better, but it's more expensive. They're both high protein, but it seems to be quality of protein that the cats can utilize well. Obviously, they don't all eat the same amount, considering that they vary in size from 5.5# to 15.5#, but they average less than 1/2 cup a day each. A 15# bag lasts 2.5-3 weeks. I also give them wet food once a day, but only about 1 oz apiece so it's more like a treat than a major part of their diet.

TOTW ingredients

Ingredients
Chicken meal, peas, sweet potatoes, chicken fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols), pea protein, potato protein, roasted venison, smoked salmon, natural flavor, ocean fish meal, DL-methionine, potassium chloride, taurine, choline chloride, dried chicory root, tomatoes, blueberries, raspberries, yucca schidigera extract,dried Enterococcus faecium fermentation product, dried Lactobacillus acidophilus fermentation product, dried Lactobacillus casei fermentation product, dried Lactobacillus plantarum fermentation product, dried Trichoderma longibrachiatum fermentation extract, zinc proteinate, vitamin E supplement, niacin, manganese proteinate, copper proteinate, zinc sulfate, manganese sulfate, copper sulfate, thiamine mononitrate (vitamin B1), vitamin A supplement, biotin, potassium iodide, calcium pantothenate, riboflavin (vitamin B2), pyridoxine hydrochloride (vitamin B6), vitamin B12 supplement, manganous oxide, sodium selenite, vitamin D supplement, folic acid.

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Indigo Moon ingredients

Chicken Meal, Potatoes, Canola Oil (preserved with mixed tocopherols) , Chicken, Pea Protein, Natural Flavor, Ocean Fish Meal, Choline Chloride, Salmon Oil (source of DHA), Taurine, Potassium Chloride, dl-methionine, Dried Chicory Root, Parsley Flakes, Pumpkin Meal, Almond Oil (preserved with mixed tocopherols), Sesame Oil (preserved by mixed tocopherols), Yucca Schidigera Extract, Thyme, Blueberries, Cranberries, Carrots, Broccoli, Vitamin A Supplement, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Vitamin E Supplement, Ferrous Sulfate, Niacin, Calcium Panthothenate, Riboflavin, Copper Sulfate, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Thiamine Mononitrate, Manganese Sulfate, Zinc Proteinate, Manganese Sulfate, Zinc Proteinate, Manganese Proteinate, Copper Proteinate, Calcium Iodate, Cobalt Carbonate, Folic Acid, Sodium Selenite, Biotin, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Rosemary Extract

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There are quite a few other grain-free foods out there, but I think TOTW is probably the least expensive.

I know some people like Wellness Core, but that didn't go over well at my house. The smell when I opened the bag just about drove me out of the house. The cats ate it, but not enthusiastically, and two or three of them started having runny, stinky poops.

With the combination my kitties are getting now I'm usually scooping between 7 and 9 poops a day from all the litter boxes. I don't see who's doing what, but it averages out to about 1 poop a day per cat. It is sometimes stinky, but that only lasts until they cover it.

If you're feeding all or mostly dry food, make sure your kitties have plenty of water to drink.

Hope the helps to get your research started.

I would completely disagree that more protein is the cause for the smell. Cats are carnivores after all! More protein is what is best for cats. The problem is that both foods are on the low end of protein, and what protein they do have comes from the grains/vegetables in the food, which is almost impossible for cats to digest.

What's funny is that the foods that GoldyCat recommended to you are actually a lot better! But they are exactly the opposite of what she recommended! The protein of TOTW is 42%, and Indigo Moon is 46%, both higher than either food you were feeding.

Poop is a very good indicator of what's going on inside the cat as a result of what they are eating. (Or disease, but I don't think that's what we are dealing with here.) If MORE poop is coming out, that either means they are eating more than before OR that more of the food they are eating is indigestible and therefor, inappropriate ingredients. My bet is with the second one. :nod:

Great information, you've given me a lot to consider. Thanks for your concern, but as I said earlier I do feed them raw, canned and dry and make sure they always have access to water.

I have compared all of the ingredients in all of the dry foods and with the exception of the Purina One, the first ingredient in the others is chicken meal. You stated that the two foods you're feeding your Kitty's is high in protein but is a quality of protein they can utilize well.

That's where I get confused, because the protein in all of them is chicken meal. What else in the foods is making the protein more utilizable?

I have struggled with this dry cat food feeding, for a really long time. I've read just enough on the subject to know I might as well be giving them a slow killing poison. I know it's true, because some of them are addicted to it.

I fed my sweet sweet Skittles, who lived to be 19, mostly dry for the first nine years of her life, and she suffered with kidney problems for the last five. I used to think dry food was good if the first ingredient was meat, then I learned meat meal was better.

I guess I'm taking this one ingredient at a time.

Seriously, if I have to supplement with dry I just want to understand it like I do raw and canned.

Thanks a bunch for all your help.

Wait - what? Meat meal is better? :dk:

And in the Diamond Active Cat food, rice is the 2nd ingredient. It adds protein, just in a form cats don't digest well. And in the TOTW and Indigo Gold, both use peas (a form of protein).

EVO is one of the lowest-carb options there is for a dry food (on a dry matter basis it's 7%). Take a look to see if you can afford it - bearing in mind that it is one of the most calorie-dense foods available, and they would need a lot less of it. http://www.evopet.com/products/1441 Evo is also grain free. It does have peas - but I think the 5th ingredient on the list, behind meats and a couple of meat meals (herring and chicken meals, I think?)

The recommended feeding amount for a 10 pound cat is 1/2 a cup per day. I don't know about your cats - but ours all ALWAYS need less than the manufacturer recommends.

(And maybe they're not begging for food the way they used to because their tummies don't feel so well? :dk: ).

Sorry for the multiple posts, but :doh3: Your feeding raw, canned, and dry, right? Overlapping?

Raw should be transiting their systems in 12-13 hours. But they digest carbs inefficiently. This slows down everything else in their systems, effectively fermenting the food = stink.

EVO is actually the perfect companion for raw if a dry is going to be fed. I'd suggest you review the canned food you're feeding, because if it's not low-carb or grain-free, it will likely be contributing to the problem too.

Okay, apposing views. Thanks for jumping in, you have my attention.

GoldyCat's theory on the increased amount of protein being the smelly culprit seemed plausible, because that's when the problem started. I absolutely agree about the grains and now understand that well.

I do know that cats are carnivorous and your points are very valid. Honestly, dry food it's a nasty evil thing that humans and cats alike are addicted to

I'll check out your cat nutrition link and if you don't mind, I might need to pick your brain a little.

Hi, interested on your views on the meat meal, I can use all the information I can get. The Evo sounds interesting I'll check that out.

Good point. Seriously, everyone's input is really giving me a lot to consider.

I see, I need to get foods that are going to interact well together to provide optimal benefit. I really think I'm understanding this. Closer than I've ever been with this.

Laurie is correct..... EVO is not only a good choice when feeding raw, but it is a safe choice..... The grains in the dry food slows down the digestive process and you can have bacterial issues in the gut
You want a low carb, grain free food, if you will feed kibbles and raw meals, unless you wait many hours in between :nod:
I also agree that the grains are probably the culprit..... I feed an all meat diet, obviously high in protein, low carbs, and their poop doesn't smell at all - I feed raw.

LDG said:

Sorry for the multiple posts, but

Your feeding raw, canned, and dry, right? Overlapping?
Raw should be transiting their systems in 12-13 hours. But they digest carbs inefficiently. This slows down everything else in their systems, effectively fermenting the food = stink.
EVO is actually the perfect companion for raw if a dry is going to be fed. I'd suggest you review the canned food you're feeding, because if it's not low-carb or grain-free, it will likely be contributing to the problem too.

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Carolina said:

Laurie is correct..... EVO is not only a good choice when feeding raw, but it is a safe choice..... The grains in the dry food slows down the digestive process and you can have bacterial issues in the gut

You want a low carb, grain free food, if you will feed kibbles and raw meals, unless you wait many hours in between

I also agree that the grains are probably the culprit..... I feed an all meat diet, obviously high in protein, low carbs, and their poop doesn't smell at all - I feed raw.

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Okay, I'm understanding you to say, if I feed Evo as well as raw, that is a much better dietary balance for them. That is logical.

Wow! poop that doesn't smell

I understand that cats to not digest grains, so I need to also find a canned food that doesn't contain grain. The more I learn about this the less expensive raw is sounding, especially when we are talking the cost of the better canned and dry food + the raw. I think this might be a no brainier

I've really wanted to feed them nothing but raw for quiet some time and it's the reason I added it to their diet. I think if I keep moving in the direction I am, which is looking for the right food for them I will get there.

You guys are a god send,

Well, I switched to full time raw for my 8 indoor-only cats because it was cheaper than decent grain-free, low-carb food. :nod: The issue is that it is cheaper to feed cheap kibble - but that's just it. Cheap kibble causes the problems.

The feral colony (I have 7 - 12, depending on who's around) gets Friskies Pate and Fancy Feast (I buy them when they're on sale). If I can't afford wet, I feed 4Health dry (yes, some of the cat food was recalled, but I'm not feeding them any dry right now). I don't worry so much about the quality of the food of the outdoor kitties because they supplement it with hunting, so they naturally eat whole prey, the best food for them. I've seen Baloo down a mouse in about five seconds. :lol3:

My indoor kitties require 14 pounds of raw rood a week, 56 pounds a month. I can totally control the cost of that by buying on sale. If I keep my overall cost of meat and organs to $4 a pound (most raw feeders are able to do it at around $2 a pound), that's $224 a month. That's $7.47 a day, or $0.93 per cat per day. :nod:

If I kept my cost to $2 per pound, divide those number in half.

Here's an article I wrote on it: http://catcentric.org/nutrition-and...y-cat-or-i-can-afford-to-feed-commercial-raw/

The focus of the article was the cost of commercial raw, but home-made is MUCH, much cheaper!

I live in an RV and have a TINY, tiny freezer. I did need to buy a chest freezer to put outside. It cost $35 on craigslist.

And yes, because cats are designed to get everything they need from raw meat/bones/organs, the volume of poop drops off the map. I spend less on litter. My cats only poop about every 2 days, and the stool volume is 1/3 of what it was. And NO smell. None. For me, the proof of how species-appropriate the diet is was in the poop, so to speak. :lol3:

I know I'm a bit late to the conversation but:

PurrfectlyCat said:

I have compared all of the ingredients in all of the dry foods and with the exception of the Purina One, the first ingredient in the others is chicken meal. You stated that the two foods you're feeding your Kitty's is high in protein but is a quality of protein they can utilize well.


That's where I get confused, because the protein in all of them is chicken meal. What else in the foods is making the protein more utilizable?


I have struggled with this dry cat food feeding, for a really long time. I've read just enough on the subject to know I might as well be giving them a slow killing poison. I know it's true, because some of them are addicted to it.


I fed my sweet sweet Skittles, who lived to be 19, mostly dry for the first nine years of her life, and she suffered with kidney problems for the last five. I used to think dry food was good if the first ingredient was meat, then I learned meat meal was better.


I guess I'm taking this one ingredient at a time.:bigwink:


Seriously, if I have to supplement with dry I just want to understand it like I do raw and canned.


Thanks a bunch for all your help.

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What makes the protein more utilizable is it's source. Protein from meat is more digestible than protein from plants. So when you look at the back of the bag, and see lots of veggies/grains and things like 'pea protein', you know that out of the 42% in the bag, most is coming from plants and not animals.

Meat meal means that there is concentrated protein coming from animals vs a whole piece of chicken which is mostly water, but meat meal is also so processed it's like saying a McDonalds patty is more nutritious than a steak.

PurrfectlyCat said:

Okay, apposing views. Thanks for jumping in, you have my attention.

GoldyCat's theory on the increased amount of protein being the smelly culprit seemed plausible, because that's when the problem started. I absolutely agree about the grains and now understand that well.

I do know that cats are carnivorous and your points are very valid. Honestly, dry food it's a nasty evil thing that humans and cats alike are addicted to

I'll check out your cat nutrition link and if you don't mind, I might need to pick your brain a little.

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Like I said, her theory on protein doesn't make any sense because *both the foods she recommended to you have more protein than the food you had been feeding.*

You allowed to PM me and pick my brain as much as you'd like. Laurie's too

Actually, the theory on high protein being the cause of GI upset doesn't make sense, because people who feed raw feed diets that are VERY high in protein, and the cats have poop that don't smell at all. The analysis of the diet I feed my cats indicates that protein, on a dry matter basis, is 70%, fat is 18.5%, and carbs are 1.5%.

LDG said:

Actually, the theory on high protein being the cause of GI upset doesn't make sense, because people who feed raw feed diets that are VERY high in protein, and the cats have poop that don't smell at all. The analysis of the diet I feed my cats indicates that protein, on a dry matter basis, is 70%, fat is 18.5%, and carbs are 1.5%.

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What's the other 10%?

The calcium and minerals ("ash"). (I've seen a lot of people on TCS referring to ash as a byproduct of the high-heat process. While this is partially true, that is a component of ash, "ash" is typically the minerals - everything that isn't protein, fat, carbohydrate, moisture, or fiber. There's no fiber in the diet, so what's left after protein, carbs, and fat on a dry matter basis is "ash." And the food is raw - so it's just the calcium and minerals in the diet).