Cat-safe Insecticide

Hey there. Long time no post.

First off, my boy cat Blitz is still tilt-headed, and has no balance. Haven't been able to afford to see a neurologist about it

We moved into a new apartment-house, but it appears to have a small carpenter ant infestation. I wanted to invest in both perimeter spray and carry-home-colony bait. However, I obviously want this to be safe for the cats

My concern with the latter is that the cats may eat an ant that has eaten it, becoming secondarily poisoned.

Any suggestions?

EDIT: My title should say Formicide

Welcome back to TCS!

In my experience, ants can be very difficult to get rid of, and indeed the bait that they carry into the colony is probably the only thing that may work. What our pest control guy told me was that even when you know exactly what kind of ant it is, you still can't be sure they'll actually go after the bait you give them because their "taste" for food (and bait) depends on what their queen orders them to get at that exact point in time. According to him, sprays are pretty useless against ants. If the ants "sense" that some of them are killed, it may actually trigger accelerated population growth.

When we used the carry-home colony bait he provided, we just stayed nearby and watched to make sure the ants were actually carrying it away with them. It took them a couple of hours to get all of it (it was just a spoonful or two of granules). Once they're done, you can just wipe the place clean. So, I would stick to that, avoid the spray and just make sure the cats are kept out of that room until the place is clean.

As for the cat ingesting any ants, is this something that you've seen your cats do? I don't think I ever had a cat who was interested in the ants. With carry-home baits, I don't think you would be seeing lots of dead ants around anyway. It's supposed to kill the queen ant and then the rest of the ants just stay in the nest and starve to death because there's no one to lead them.

Hi Ameise!  And thanks for the informative post Anne.  I've never seen my cats eat an ant but I don't have any to speak of either.  Great info.
 

Anne said:

Welcome back to TCS!

In my experience, ants can be very difficult to get rid of, and indeed the bait that they carry into the colony is probably the only thing that may work. What our pest control guy told me was that even when you know exactly what kind of ant it is, you still can't be sure they'll actually go after the bait you give them because their "taste" for food (and bait) depends on what their queen orders them to get at that exact point in time. According to him, sprays are pretty useless against ants. If the ants "sense" that some of them are killed, it may actually trigger accelerated population growth.

When we used the carry-home colony bait he provided, we just stayed nearby and watched to make sure the ants were actually carrying it away with them. It took them a couple of hours to get all of it (it was just a spoonful or two of granules). Once they're done, you can just wipe the place clean. So, I would stick to that, avoid the spray and just make sure the cats are kept out of that room until the place is clean.

As for the cat ingesting any ants, is this something that you've seen your cats do? I don't think I ever had a cat who was interested in the ants. With carry-home baits, I don't think you would be seeing lots of dead ants around anyway. It's supposed to kill the queen ant and then the rest of the ants just stay in the nest and starve to death because there's no one to lead them.

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I actually know a fair deal about ants (I used to keep Formicariums, and happened to keep these ants in particular). I'm infested with Camponotus pennsylvanicus, which is the common North American Black Carpenter Ant.

Sprays will kill ants but usually won't prevent them from coming back (other than talc or diatomaceous earth, which basically shreds their exoskeletons). Killing them releases alarm pheromone, which doesn't necessarily increase their population, but alarm pheromone triggers more ants to come to that location (it triggers a "defend the colony" response). Pennsylvanicus, like all Carpenter ants, prefers sweet and savory foods. I've seen them completely ignore bread, but sugar or candy, or meat, will drive them mad. 

Past that, ant-killing bait (whether carry home or bring home, the latter is eaten by the ants and regurgitated to the rest of the population - this is how ants share food) is brought back to the nest, where it is shared by the population, including the queen, killing them. The ants don't stay in the nest after this, their population merely dwindles (due to no more eggs being lain) and dies out in the end. This can take some time, though; time between egg and hatching of the pupæ is something like 3 months, so any eggs that were already lain still exist (though the larvae may die when fed the toxin as well). Ants aren't led by the queen, they are led by pheromones - the only thing the queen does is make more ants.

Yes, I've seen my cats ingest ants, spiders, centipedes, which is concerning but they've yet to get hurt from it, and I can't really stop them. My concern is that they would eat an ant that has recently eaten or is carrying the bait.

Sorry for being long-winded, but as I said, I dealt a lot with formicaria (and actually kept carpenter ants, colonies from new queens), and I just can't let ignorance of ants go uncorrected I'm just worried about my cats getting indirectly poisoned. I don't know the toxicology of most insecticides on cats, only to avoid the Pyrethrins (like what is in Raid) as it is lethal to cats. Most of the datasheets only seem to mention general mammals (which although cats are, they tend to have strange responses to poisons that have no effect on other mammals) and dogs (which while distantly related, still don't have the same toxicology statistics). I normally have nothing against ants, just don't like it when the house is infested, as that poses a risk to myself and the cats. I'm trying to keep a ground ant colony outside alive, simply because they are, by virtue of existing, competing against the carpenters.

Wow, thank you so much for that post! I actually was trying to keep things simply in my own post when I said the queen was "leading" the ants. I think the way they use pheromones to communicate is absolutely fascinating. You sure do know a lot about ants.

I love learning about insects in general. We have insects and spiders in our home and I try not to kill any of them if I can avoid it. The exceptions being ant infestations and roaches (fortunately, I haven't seen a roach in years here, but if I ever do, it won't stand a chance). I can go into quite a bit of trouble rescuing grasshoppers and other critters that wander into our home

My cats are too old to mind any insect or ant, but sounds like your crew is different. In this case, I would take every possible precaution about it and would call the manufacturer of the bait for more information. I would also check this list for the active ingredients -

http://www.petpoisonhelpline.com/poisons/