My husband wants to take our Princess & her kittens to the ASPCA

I didnt see this suggestion... How will i know it wont cause Lisa to go into a "move all the kittens" frenzy like Princess has been? Tho she's only has moved them once in 9 days & Princess had moved her kittens at least a dozen times by 9 days old. I just dont want to cause the same problem im having now by upsetting Lisa. I dont want to have 2 queens upset because what if Princess turns around & isnt happy with that location & Lisa is too but wont go back to the closet? I worry about the "what ifs" before upsetting the balance.

catmom5 said:

The only other thing is moving the other mom and kittens to a secure spot, ie cage, since they are younger and let Princess have the spare room for her little family.
 

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I'm sorry that things are so upsetting right now. Perhaps others have some ideas that might work better.

Thank you for caring enough to take in these precious cats and taking good care of them.

Hopefully, having your male out of the house for a while will help, too.

In my limited experience, if there is enough food and water and boxes then mom will take care of the litter training. (They do need tiny boxes with very low sides, though.) I agree that you need to socialize them, but right now it seems to be very upsetting to mom.

Hoping others can give some ideas.

Im just trying to ask for solutions & help & you are helping me by making me think and keeping my head focused. I admitted to an anxiety disorder which is why this situation is more stressful then it should be to me. My husband was only concerned over the bite & gibby but ive calmed him down. There is no chance they will go to a shelter but we are going to attempt to work something out. Possibly putting 2 kids in one room temporarily & making a room for her would be the best solution. Im sure 1 of the children will be willing to sacrafice their space for a week or 2. I'll still have to go in there & clean up after them & clean the litter box i'll add to the room & feed them but otherwise they can be solitary. we can possibly rig a door where it wont close more then such an amount that will let her in 7 out without fully shutting. That way it will still open... Hmmm... I might even have my oldest son do it because shes always loving on him, maybe more him and less me. I will draw her out of the room when i feed the kittens by having Bryan take her into the bathroom where she loves to do flips in the tub (not sure why). She'll do that for an hour (without being closed in) and that'll give me time to feed the kittens. Ive tried to do it while she was busy but she always seem to come back before i could get the last kitten fed.

maybe she bit me because wahtever the kittens dont eat i give to her? She was taking what she thought was coming to her? I never thought of it that way. Blasted im stupid i should have thought of that!!! Yeah im proving to show myself more & more as a dumb blundering clueless idiot

The male is out of the house for now, a friend that helped me catch him on the highway said she would take him till the girls were fixed & she lives down the road so we will visit often.

I do not want to go thru this again, trust me when i say that.

You have more experance then i do with kittens.

catmom5 said:

I'm sorry that things are so upsetting right now. Perhaps others have some ideas that might work better.

Thank you for caring enough to take in these precious cats and taking good care of them.

Hopefully, having your male out of the house for a while will help, too.

In my limited experience, if there is enough food and water and boxes then mom will take care of the litter training. (They do need tiny boxes with very low sides, though.) I agree that you need to socialize them, but right now it seems to be very upsetting to mom.

Hoping others can give some ideas.

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Wow,  I can see how tough it is for you to be so worn out by all of this craziness but still be very attached and concerned about her.  We all have our limits.  I pride myself on taking very good care of my cats and fostering for 5 years, but I once had a cat I had to give up because of ongoing aggression that was endangering my young children.  Sometimes when a situation causes so much anxiety you just have to make the call that it's not working, and this is very hard to do.

You mentioned you live in an apartment and that you have another queen with kittens.  I am wondering if you think overcrowding could be an issue here.  If too many people and pets in a living space, sometimes aggression and anxious behavior becomes a problem. 

Ive sounded so negative about my Princess that i thought i would say that sometimes she really does make me laugh!

Like right now im busting a gut laughing! princess is trying to put her kittens in Lisa's birthing box which is on the other side of the room & her kittens are behind the sofa. her kittens can climb over the box, the sides are only 6" high. The kittens do NOT want to go where ever shes taking them so they put up a fight & a chase. She fights to get 1 to the box cuz if they get free they run away. She finally got 1 in there by grabbing it by the front of its throat (after shes grabbed it & its run away 3 different times!), as she tries & fails to get the 2nd 1 on the 1st grab so you suddenly see a little black kitten running from under the sofa away from mama, you hear the 1st 1 meowing & climbing over the box. After mama has finish chasing down #2, the 1st kitten is strolling past her. This is hillarious!

She makes no sence why she would take them from behind the sofa thats against the wall to a box out in the open but its her kittens & im not stopping her, im just enjoying the show.

Another thing she does that makes me laugh is when she gets into our bath tub. I have some funny videos of her running in circles, stops & looks around all paranoid like, does it again a few more times, stops with her paws on teh side of the tub facing up then JUMPS as high as she can, stops & looks around, then goes in more circles. she'll do this for an hour.

She also attacks paper. If you leave paper on the floor or out in the open she pushes the paper off the table or whatnots and she'll start digging into the paper. Shes done that since she was a little kitten, that was something her old owners told me about & i think its funny. She hasnt done it since she was pregnant tho.

I dont know, we were suppose to be in a 6 bedroom house in march but the paperwork fell thru & we found another 6bdrm we're moving into come august. We are currently in a 4 bedroom apartment & not small by any means. 1 person per room. all the different seperation ideas to keep the litters seperate but make both queens happy got me thinking. The rooms are plenty big for 2 single beds so i think i might put my older 2 sons together temporarily. It will give her & her kittens enough room. Put up a barrier where they wont run off & that'll make mama happy because shes tired of them leaving her space. Put a box in there temporarily & food & water. let them ahve the space. the boys used to share a room anyways. they'll get hteir own room come august when we move into the house & can go on the porch. Right now they've lost their back balcony privledges because Freddy is trying to jump on the roof. the balcony railing isnt that thick scares me to peices. i know the cats are mad about that.

HappyKitty said:

You mentioned you live in an apartment and that you have another queen with kittens.  I am wondering if you think overcrowding could be an issue here.  If too many people and pets in a living space, sometimes aggression and anxious behavior becomes a problem. 

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that so sounds wrong... i ment "the boys used to share a room anyways. They'll get their own room come august when we move into the new house. & the cats can go on the pourch." and as im reading that i realize the kittens will be ready by the end of may so i technically they'll only share the room for a few more weeks. Come august our house will be 2 hopefully 3 less. (Mama stays). We're not keeping any out of Lisa's litter. I put my foot down. I said 1 kitten -period-. end of story. even with a bigger house & a full house length back padio that would be half theirs & half the kids. Everybody will be happy & there wont be too many cats for that space then. Just a few more weeks, come the end of July, we'll be back to 4 cats max.

ajbkm said:

the boys used to share a room anyways. they'll get hteir own room come august when we move into the house & can go on the porch.

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omg now that sounds like they'll live on the back porch... no... i ment they would be able to go outside as they please & they love being outside & its screened in so they can climb the screen (i know they can do that, theyve proven it to me) but they wouldnt get outside plus fixed so no baby worries 'just incase' they do escape... See what i mean? open mouth insert foot. I said what i am thinking but it sounds like i mean it a different way.

ajbkm said:

"... & the cats can go on the pourch."

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Right now Princess is the most important thing as her behaviour isn't doing the babies any good.

Please, since your friend will take her, let her do so.  You sound very stressed over it all, and I suspect Princess is picking up on that.  Hopefully with a room to herself she will soon settle down.

You are right that kittens need socialising, but they also learn from their mothers.  If they see her apparently fearful of people they will learn that. 

Eating solid food and using the litter tray will all come naturally.

Kittens need to be contained, both for the mums wellbeing and security and to make litter training, eating easier. Let her eat all she wants, of course wet food is better and tastier than dry. If she eats the kittens food, put out more.Your home does sound very stressful, and that's not all your fault, but if your friend has offered a home and room to at least one mum and babies I do think you should take it. Please don't refer to their actions as stupid or dumb, they are just trying to protect their kittens in a stressful situation.

I would agree that if your friend can take her that may be the best thing. You are doing such a good thing, but you have a lot of interests that need to be taken into consideration. Every person and every animal has different needs and handles stress differently. You have to take into account Princess's needs, as well as those of other Mama Lisa, your children, your husband, and YOURSELF! You may not be able to figure out what is causing Princess distress, all you know is that she is distressed. This isn't saying you have done anything wrong- you may in fact be doing everything right but her needs just can't be met in the environment you can provide. It's not in your children's best interest to go from having their own rooms to sharing, and it's not in your best interest to put so much additional stress on yourself when there is a simpler solution at hand. Clearly you have the rescue mentality and are willing to do whatever it takes to help an animal in need once you have made that commitment, but sometimes the best thing you can do for them is to let them go. 

I know you are attached to her (as is your son) but honestly my biggest concern from your posts is that the situation as it is now is a ticking time bomb. Your husband is fearful of her after she attacked you, and, even though he has calmed down about it I don't think he's going to be so tolerant if it happens again. You also said she likes to spend time with your son. What I see is something setting her off (and that could be anything from hearing a kitten crying in the distance to seeing a shadow that spooks her) and her attacking him. That will be traumatic for your boy, not to mention have dire consequences for Princess when your husband hauls her off to the shelter. 

I can't stress enough to you that I don't necessarily think you have done anything wrong, but simply that your home environment isn't the best fit for her, and that's okay. She will be stressed in the short term with the move to your friends, but in the long run I think that type of environment is exactly what she needs. Also remember that while this may be in Princess's best interest right now, that doesn't mean it will be in the future. After her babies are grown may be the time to bring her back until you can find her a home. 

Please don't focus on what you consider to be your "failures" in this situation and instead try to focus on how much you are helping all those that you love. You are giving Princess what she needs as well as quelling your husbands concerns and maintaining stability for your children. In my mind that's not a failure, but a major success. 

A very good place that I've found, in this kind of situation, is a dresser drawer. In your bedroom, mom( probably the quietest room-lol), clear out a drawer.Doesn't need to be huge, but big enough for momma cat & kittens comfortably. Put some old towels, clothing, etc.in the drawer, not a whole lot though, maybe until its 1/4th of the way full.Then close the drawer 2/3rds of the way, just enough room for mom to get in and out.If mom doesn't move the kittens there herself in 24 hours, move the kittens.I think, though, that mom will move them there and as long as you or anyone else in the household doesn't encroach too much, she'll keep them there. They do seem to prefer those dresser drawers-lol!