My husband wants to take our Princess & her kittens to the ASPCA

I came home to find what looked like Princess & Gibby playing. Gibby is her 5 week old kitten. Next thing i know her ears tucked & she grabbed his throat. He started thrashing & screaming. She was keeping steady pressure when i grabbed him up. He was in distress. I think a part of it might be jealousy. How do i fix jealousy when she wont let me pet & love on her?!

I decided to try to feed the kittens their mushy wet food. I always give her a can so she doesnt cause me problems. Well when she was done eating she decided she was going to eat their food. I stopped her & sweetly talked to her. She will push her kittens right out of the food dish. She bit me & drew blood then scratched me pretty deep. Since im alllergic to cats my wrist is painfully swollen the size of a baseball & 3 benadryls later its still not normal size & still rather painful.

we've only had her since she was 3-4 wks pregnant but this is the 3rd personaility change she has gone thru & the worst. shes never harmed any of the other cats & shes never been agressive towards food & i have had to take food away from her before (it was human food like chicken with bones) she never bit me or anything else ever. Infact im used to dogs i was always like "wow that was easy". With my moms dogs i have to chase them around the house & deal with growling & teeth & a possible nip. Plus she ALWAYS has dry food out so its not like shes starving.

I dont know what to do & now my husband is worried for our kids.

any ideas? Im scared to leave her with her own kittens now or put her in the room with Lisa's kittens or even have her around my own kids but i just dont want to give up on her either.

Also, so i dont have to make a 2nd post, Princess has always been weird about letting me around her kittens from birth. Lisa never had a problem until they hit a week old when she took them from her birthing box in teh family room to my walk in closet in my bedroom (which is fine, its quiet back there). She still let me around them & didnt freak if i headed towards them or went to get clothes. Now if im in the family room & go down the hallway (where both bathrooms & 3 bedrooms are) she gets up immedately & hauls ass to her kittens just like princess has always done. I dont know if this is normal or what. I dont understand this behavior!

Thats scary! I wish you the best of luck! Do you pay a lot of attention to Gibby compared to Princess?

Im do not know if its normal for a queen to act towards her kittens that way but my mom cat does when she needs a lot of attention!

It's normal for mama cats to "play" very rough with their kittens. The kittens will squall about it, but it teaches them proper cat manners, and how to defend themselves in the wild (even though they're housepets!). Don't interfere. It's normal unless there's blood.

She is also deeply hormonal at this point. You can't really determine her personality until she's been spayed for a few months. She may even be pregnant again already. . .ask the vet if she should be spayed now. If the babies are eating solids they don't NEED her milk so she should be able to be spayed at this point. Plus they can still give milk after being spayed.

Don't mess with her when she's eating. If she steals the babies' food, feed them in a separate room. Don't let your kids mess with her while she's eating either. She may be a cat who just doesn't like being petted and picked up. This is usually a fear behavior, it may change as she learns to trust you. If that's how it is, don't pet her or pick her up. . .let her initiate all contact. Teach your kids the same. Unless she attacks unprovoked, there's no reason to worry about the kids' safety (unless they're rude children who harrass animals, but I'm sure you wouldn't allow that!).

It is normal for mama cats to be very protective of kittens. In the wild everything would trying to eat them! So they have to be vigilant.

Do know that if she is taken to a shelter she'll be killed. They have to kill them if they've bitten anyone. And the kittens would probably be killed as well because they're too young to be adopted (unless they have lots of foster homes).

It would be better to have her spayed, give her a few months to settle down, and if she remains incurably antisocial and you absolutely can't keep her (I have indoor ferals I can't even touch!), find her a good farm home.

There's so much I don't know - for example, where did Princess come from? Has she been a stray? Has she been feral? How was she when the kittens were smaller? Cat moms can sometimes be too rough with their babies - when my rescue stray, Sassy, got rough with hers (to the point that they squealed and it looked too rough to me) then I picked HER up and got her away from them. It didn't happen more than a couple of times, though.

I also wonder if there are some major hormonal changes going on with Princess. And I wonder if she isn't picking up on your stress (warranted stress, don't misunderstand). Are you sure there isn't a health issue going on?

Do you have anyone else who might be willing to foster this mom and her babies until they are old enough to be adopted?

Finally, are the kittens eating well enough that they could be separated from mom (but kept together) so you could get Princess spayed?

I'm just tossing out guesses right now because I really don't know what to tell you. I do know that we are hitting kitten season here and the chances of Princess even making it up for adoption at one of our shelters (with those behavior changes) would be slim to none. Where are you located? Perhaps there is a shelter/rescue group who would be able to help you out.

Good luck! I know you're trying hard to do what's best for everyone.

Princess was tossed out by a neighbor when they moved out. I knew her prior to having her into my home. She was never a feral cat or a stray because i grabbed her as soon as i could (i called the neighbors who said "keep her, we dont want her" and hung up on me). I also knew her personaility prior to pregnancy but not truely intimite, i was a stranger in her home & was a very loveable cat when she was in their home.

Okay, i said i had trouble with 'freak-outs' over them picking up their kittens because i hate the way they grab them sometimes. It scared me badly! I thought maybe i was over reacting or not reacting enough so i thought i would ask. I seriously thought she was trying to hurt him!!! I thought maybe it was jealousy because Gibby comes to me when he hears my voice & i always love & pet on him. hes the most social of the 3 kittens. the 2 girls love contact but prefer each other.

I had a friend come over a few weeks ago that said she'd keep mom & take care of the babies till they could find homes. When she came over & saw how Princess had become (obsessive) she refused then & nobody else will take her.

The runt will not eat wet food very well, infact she eats the less out of everybody & refuses to eat unless the foods on the tip of my finger.

I dont want her in a shelter, i just want that sweet loveable cat i once met (what seems a lifetime ago before she was pregnant & thrown from her home) back. when she was pregnant she slept with me every night, wanting my lovings, and was soooo loveable. I suspected she'd go back to being more of an isolated cat but oie. I have to calm my husband down so he doesnt do something i feel is stupid. I do love her even if im tired of her & the way shes being.

The picture of my wrist i think upset my husband more then anything because it was the worst swelling ive ever had over a cat scratch but the other cats scratched me accidently while trying to play or jumping from my lap, ive never had nails sunk into my skin so deeply from a cat that wasnt feral (ive had feral cats but i was able to grab them to prevent deep scratches & walked away with minimul scratches amazingly). I told him she didnt want me to swell, she didnt know i was going to swell, shes a cat!

I dont want her to die because she was being a piggy and wanting more food if i had known she would react that way i would have removed her from the room, put her in a carrier, or let her have it!

catmom5 said:

There's so much I don't know - for example, where did Princess come from? Has she been a stray? Has she been feral? How was she when the kittens were smaller? Cat moms can sometimes be too rough with their babies - when my rescue stray, Sassy, got rough with hers (to the point that they squealed and it looked too rough to me) then I picked HER up and got her away from them. It didn't happen more than a couple of times, though.

I also wonder if there are some major hormonal changes going on with Princess. And I wonder if she isn't picking up on your stress (warranted stress, don't misunderstand). Are you sure there isn't a health issue going on?

Do you have anyone else who might be willing to foster this mom and her babies until they are old enough to be adopted?

Finally, are the kittens eating well enough that they could be separated from mom (but kept together) so you could get Princess spayed?

I'm just tossing out guesses right now because I really don't know what to tell you. I do know that we are hitting kitten season here and the chances of Princess even making it up for adoption at one of our shelters (with those behavior changes) would be slim to none. Where are you located? Perhaps there is a shelter/rescue group who would be able to help you out.

Good luck! I know you're trying hard to do what's best for everyone.

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Sorry i totally missed that question!

She never would let me around them (or anybody else). I look at them, she moved them. No matter what i did, she would move them. She puts them in really stupid places. Not even 24 hours old & she put them inside my sons toy box. No big deal if she had put them in an empty box. This one was filled with toys & went 3 feet deep. Her kittens sank & there was no way she could get them out. If the male hadnt been pacing the box i would have never known about the kittens being in there!!!

I think Princess hates me because ive stalked her & her kittens to make sure she's picked good places. Once she picked a good spot i did leave her alone, i just wanted to make sure her babies werent in another toy box.

She moved her kittens 3-4 times a day, sometimes 1-2 times a night. They have been behind the sofa for a week now & she has moved them once to the closet but i put the kittens back behind the sofa. She left them there a day or so then has been fighting me the last 24 hours to put them in the closet with Lisa (the other queen with 6 1wk old kittens) and shes obsessive about getting them in the closet, now my carpet has paid the price because shutting that door has caused both queens to tear up the carpet. Im in an apartment. I will not be getting my deposit back.

catmom5 said:

How was she when the kittens were smaller?

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It seems to me that she's very aggressive because she is worried about the kittens. She keeps looking for a safe spot and you two obviously disagree about what that might be. Again, is there a way you can confine her to a large dog crate with some kind of covering so she feels safer? Perhaps you could put it in a room that, at times, you could let them out to explore for a bit, but then put them back in?

I'm really guessing here, but she's upset about something and until she can feel safe, I don't see the situation changing drastically.

The only other thing is moving the other mom and kittens to a secure spot, ie cage, since they are younger and let Princess have the spare room for her little family.
 

It's not good for her to keep moving the kittens.  I feel you need to really hold back and leave her wherever she chooses and not look in.  Normally I would suggest weighing the kittens each day but clearly that will cause more problems than it will avoid with this cat.

And I agree absolutely that you need to let her initiate contact at present.  Petting a cat that doesn't want to be petted is very stressful for it.

She doesn't hate you, but keeping looking in is making her feel insecure and threatened, and she is being a very good and protective mother by finding a new nesting place,

And as a nursing queen, she should be allowed to eat as much as she wants.  Putting food out in several dishes might help, putting plenty out might as well.  Has she been wormed?

Does your friend have more room for Princess and the kittens? If she has a spare room where they could just settle in and be left alone for a while, it might be better than where she is right now, just because of all the confusion.

She does need to be allowed to eat as much as she wants. Feeding herself and all those babies takes a lot out of her and she needs as much nourishment as she can get. Don't worry about her overeating. I doubt that will happen.

Please figure out a calm, private place for her (or leave her where she puts them) and just let them be for a while.

And I hope your hand feels better very soon. I'm sure that is upsetting to your husband, too.

Poor Princess - her world has really been tipped upside down, too.
 

Okay i dont think i am seeing a reply i made. I am not understanding this. I just wrote something out. The page disappeared before i could go over it to make sure i didnt put something the wrong way (sometimes if i type before i think, things sound wrong) & i think it posted but im not sure! I learned earlier that you cant delete a post or reply. I accidently replied to a post & said "wow i thought my 6 was bad" that sounds HORRIBLE and i didnt mean it that way! I just ment wow i thought my 6 was a large litter! So i try to triple proof read before submitting. Or i'll delete a part of something making no sence of the next thing said or i'll say things three friggen times.

My friend said shes willing to take the kittens & have a room turned into for just cats, loves cats! It just has 3 cat trees & a bunch of toys over the floor, painted fish all over the room! I couldnt think of a better home but she hasnt been home in quite some time so i couldnt ask her till today) and she would even keep mama & her 2 daughters. Otherwise she will take the girl kittens

The problem is i dont want to let her go, i want to fix this issue at home to prevent less confusion for her. They have the same stuff my friend has but not in just 1 nifty room for them. I do look at it from Princesses point of veiw & shes probably really freaked out right now. I think she has the same anxiety problems that i do but about totally different things although not entirely. She worries for her 3 kids like i worry for mine.

This girl loves my son & he's autistic. tho he couldnt tell me if he cared one way or another, i know he would miss her. I would bend over backwards to make that boy happy. He's sitting on the sofa watching TV when she jumped up there, rubbed all over him, then got attention for half an hour. Its purely a love relationship between them where she wont let anybody else pet her that long without moving. Then she realized her kittens were out & yeah, now im listening to her call her kittens, its been 10 minutes. They're playing so they arent listening to her. She's upset because they are out from behind the sofa. She cant keep them in there forever. Gibby has wondered over almost every inch in this place but the girls pretty much dont go more then 3 or 4 feet from the sofa. well she just gave up & grabbed them to take them back there.

I dont want to lose her. I want to find a way to fix whatever problems we have. I am sure I am doing something wrong & she just cant tell me. Animals act in different ways but theres always a reason even if i might not understand it.

The 'stalking' i refer too is more like activly watching. I didnt follow & give chase. Well i do if she goes into the boys room but i try to wait till shes left & busy eating before i do just to check & of course i dont touch. Our house is set up where i have 1 hallway, i can see all the bedrooms & 1 bathroom from where i usually sit in my recliner. I dont have to get up to follow her to find her kittens to know which room they're going into & as long as i knew the room, we were good. I wasnt always sitting in the recliner when she moved them but usually i knew what room within a few hours because she'd eventually go into it. Our room is fine until Lisa moved her kittens in there. Now the only bedrooms available are my sons rooms. She hasnt been stupid enough to put them into my youngest sons room because he's so very active, loud, squeals, and tho he's never hurt her (or a kitten), i dont think shes not that dumb. Plus no places to hide. I think her "toy box" placement was a mistake on her part by not realizing they'd go down the spaces between the toys & she learned her lesson since she hasnt repeated (tho i fear it, i have anxiety issues). well, except for the hall closet. I opened it up, got pullups out, and forgot to shut the door. Not even 5 minutes later she had the kittens in there. The closet door remains shut always so my kids stay out of there. If that door is open the kids tend to dig thru it & break things. Plus i doubt my foot would have fit in that space, the kittens were cramped!

catmom5 said:

Does your friend have more room for Princess and the kittens? If she has a spare room where they could just settle in and be left alone for a while, it might be better than where she is right now, just because of all the confusion.

She does need to be allowed to eat as much as she wants. Feeding herself and all those babies takes a lot out of her and she needs as much nourishment as she can get. Don't worry about her overeating. I doubt that will happen.

Please figure out a calm, private place for her (or leave her where she puts them) and just let them be for a while.

And I hope your hand feels better very soon. I'm sure that is upsetting to your husband, too.

Poor Princess - her world has really been tipped upside down, too.
 

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My friend said shes willing to take the kittens & have a room turned into for just cats, loves cats! It just has 3 cat trees & a bunch of toys over the floor, painted fish all over the room! I couldnt think of a better home but she hasnt been home in quite some time so i couldnt ask her till today) and she would even keep mama & her 2 daughters. Otherwise she will take the girl kittens

The problem is i dont want to let her go, i want to fix this issue at home to prevent less confusion for her. They have the same stuff my friend has but not in just 1 nifty room for them. I do look at it from Princesses point of veiw & shes probably really freaked out right now. I think she has the same anxiety problems that i do but about totally different things although not entirely. She worries for her 3 kids like i worry for mine.

This girl loves my son & he's autistic. tho he couldnt tell me if he cared one way or another, i know he would miss her. I would bend over backwards to make that boy happy. He's sitting on the sofa watching TV when she jumped up there, rubbed all over him, then got attention for half an hour. Its purely a love relationship between them where she wont let anybody else pet her that long without moving. Then she realized her kittens were out & yeah, now im listening to her call her kittens, its been 10 minutes. They're playing so they arent listening to her. She's upset because they are out from behind the sofa. She cant keep them in there forever. Gibby has wondered over almost every inch in this place but the girls pretty much dont go more then 3 or 4 feet from the sofa. well she just gave up & grabbed them to take them back there.

I dont want to lose her. I want to find a way to fix whatever problems we have. I am sure I am doing something wrong & she just cant tell me. Animals act in different ways but theres always a reason even if i might not understand it.

The 'stalking' i refer too is more like activly watching. I didnt follow & give chase. Well i do if she goes into the boys room but i try to wait till shes left & busy eating before i do just to check & of course i dont touch. Our house is set up where i have 1 hallway, i can see all the bedrooms & 1 bathroom from where i usually sit in my recliner. I dont have to get up to follow her to find her kittens to know which room they're going into & as long as i knew the room, we were good. I wasnt always sitting in the recliner when she moved them but usually i knew what room within a few hours because she'd eventually go into it. Our room is fine until Lisa moved her kittens in there. Now the only bedrooms available are my sons rooms. She hasnt been stupid enough to put them into my youngest sons room because he's so very active, loud, squeals, and tho he's never hurt her (or a kitten), i dont think shes not that dumb. Plus no places to hide. I think her "toy box" placement was a mistake on her part by not realizing they'd go down the spaces between the toys & she learned her lesson since she hasnt repeated (tho i fear it, i have anxiety issues). well, except for the hall closet. I opened it up, got pullups out, and forgot to shut the door. Not even 5 minutes later she had the kittens in there. The closet door remains shut always so my kids stay out of there. If that door is open the kids tend to dig thru it & break things. Plus i doubt my foot would have fit in that space, the kittens were cramped!

catmom5 said:

Does your friend have more room for Princess and the kittens? If she has a spare room where they could just settle in and be left alone for a while, it might be better than where she is right now, just because of all the confusion.

She does need to be allowed to eat as much as she wants. Feeding herself and all those babies takes a lot out of her and she needs as much nourishment as she can get. Don't worry about her overeating. I doubt that will happen.

Please figure out a calm, private place for her (or leave her where she puts them) and just let them be for a while.

And I hope your hand feels better very soon. I'm sure that is upsetting to your husband, too.

Poor Princess - her world has really been tipped upside down, too.
 

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Now ive posted twice! Okay i am doing something wrong with this board! I swear i hit submit but the page didnt clear, so i hit submit & it posted again. Does it not clear after a posting?

I understand what you're saying, but Princess needs someplace safe to take care of her kittens. There will be a lot of time once they are weaned and in their own homes. She now needs to be a mom. Please try to find someplace safe, quiet and calm where she can feel that her kittens are safe. It might mean doing some rearranging, but please do that for her and the kittens. (I'm hoping that she will be spayed as soon as possible, also)

I think its because i have 3 active kids & with a son that has autism we have very little belongings out in the open, most hidden & packed away in a storage unit or our closets. She has places but she's already picked them. Ive cleaned out my viola table so she could hide her babies in there when she tried to put the babies in there. It was full of DVDs & i even unplugged my WII completly! (i had done this after noticing she was searching for another nesting area before she could come back with the babies). Its not like i havent tried to agree with her. Infact, the only time we truely disagreed was twice. The toy box & the hall closet. Well, now we're going head to head with her over our walk in closet because thats where Lisa's litter is & shes trying to get Lisa to nurse them & keep them with her. i cannot let her do that because 3 5 wk old kittens will easily over power 6 1wk old kittens.

When Lisa's kittens were 1st born Princess was trying to put her 4 week old kittens in the box with her. this isnt something new, this has been going on for a little over a week of trying to play "no princess, your babies cant be with lisa and her babies". she's obsessed with it & set in her mind. My carpet has paid the price & so will i in the end but im just trying to do whats best for both queens without putting kittens at risk.

I am really trying, im just failing, and miserablely.

catmom5 said:

It seems to me that she's very aggressive because she is worried about the kittens. She keeps looking for a safe spot and you two obviously disagree about what that might be. Again, is there a way you can confine her to a large dog crate with some kind of covering so she feels safer? Perhaps you could put it in a room that, at times, you could let them out to explore for a bit, but then put them back in?

I'm really guessing here, but she's upset about something and until she can feel safe, I don't see the situation changing drastically.

The only other thing is moving the other mom and kittens to a secure spot, ie cage, since they are younger and let Princess have the spare room for her little family.
 

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Theres no quiet place unless i put her outside in the storage shed. I have 3 kids and with a son with autism & a toddler that lvoes his voice there really isnt a quiet place to be had. Lisa has picked it with the closet, thats the most quiet room. Other then that its our bedroom because the kids arent allowed to play in there. She's already picked 3 seperate dresser drawers. Ive cleaned out my drawers too to let her go in there, took out all my close & lined it with a blanket for her. That usually worked for a day, sometimes 2 but then she'll see me walk to my bed. Ive even taken the carrier, placed it against a wall then backed it up just enough room to let her in & out, covered the carrier, and left it be. That worked a day or 2. If i lock her in she howls.

She has had so many 'safe' places but she wont keep them there. Places where we do not even see them but its like i cant make her happy. Im trying. I really am!

i was told on another post not to let Lisa & Princess's babies mix or nurse from Lisa because of their sheer size. The only place she wants her babies right now is ontop of the other litter. Lisa felt safe in our family room, in an open box for a week before she moved them. Now shes in our closet & has been there for a few days. Shes comfortable with us going in & out to get our clothes. Princess would move them as soon as she saw us lay down in our bed but in the meantime they'll nurse off Lisa & crawl over her kittens.

She originally had moved the kittens from my closet because i noticed she delievered & went looking for them to see 3 kittens. I was barely there for a second & instead of getting dressed in the closet i actually left them alone & went into the bathroom to dress instead. I have tried to give her her space.

catmom5 said:

I understand what you're saying, but Princess needs someplace safe to take care of her kittens. There will be a lot of time once they are weaned and in their own homes. She now needs to be a mom. Please try to find someplace safe, quiet and calm where she can feel that her kittens are safe. It might mean doing some rearranging, but please do that for her and the kittens. (I'm hoping that she will be spayed as soon as possible, also)

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Oh & yes no matter what she IS getting fixed. I do NOT want to go thru this again. I do NOT know enough about kittens to even THINK about attempting this again. I took her in because i felt bad she just got tossed out like trash just to find out she was pregnant when i took her to get spayed, i took the other queen in because she had ran across the street covered in mud and i thought her missing tail was due to an injury but i talked to a neighbor & found out that her mom was the same way & had large litters. The old couple died but her cats were left to fend for themselves. Eventually Lisa was born, most of her sibilings dead by being run over by cars or just gone. I grabbed her up (she was friendly enough due to local kids playing with them) and brought her to the vets & set up an appointment. I took her in a week later & said they couldnt because she was already pregnant. Then i found my male, skinny & flea-ridden walking down a highway. Now he's flea-less & fat. Lazy thing too. He's with another friend right now till i can get the females fixed. I had no idea they could go into heat so quick & even when neutered sperm can stay in the tubes. He went out the door as soon as i found that out.

This is an expression, i didnt litterally kick him out my door. I took him to a friends house temporarily. She's been around him since i found him. Im sure he's confused but by golly i can not have this happen again, no more kittens. No more mama cats!

ajbkm said:

He went out the door as soon as i found that out.

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Alright, tell me this... If i need to find a place thats quiet, i cant go in there, i cant do anything but give her space, how will her kittens eat kitten food when she wont teach them & i am having to feed them with my finger or she wont let them eat because she will eat all her food & hog all theirs? or how am i going to clean up their poop on my floor when she wont teach them to use the box? i have 2 boxes.

She has no choice but to let me interfere a couple times a day plus they cant go unsocialized right or am i wrong on this?

ive grabbed some 5 wk old feral kittens before that had made an abandoned trailor their home (mom ran over by a car) & i dont want to be torn up that bad again. Worse then adult feral cats i tell ya. Nails like needles!

Im sorry im just so frustrated. Im just trying to do whats best for her kittens. I want to find a way to keep her & i cant concider the options because ive already tried them or its not possible. Im just ugh, i sound like a horrible person.