Bottle fed kittens possibly having seizures

A friend of mine is bottle feeding 7 kittens who are about 4-5 weeks old. They have started having what is possibly seizures. There are three that seem to have them regularly. What basically happens is they will sometimes be twitchy a bit, and then they either will be completely motionless tounge sticking out and unresponsive, or walking around spastically and running into walls and such before they settle down and ussually just lay there. After an hour to sometimes three hours they come back around and are completely normal. The vet said that their blood sugar is getting too low and they should be fed more often. They are being fed every 3-4 hours but they still keep having these episodes. I have been watching them tonight and 2 were having issues at one feeding and then they were all fine at the next, but this last feeding one was completely unresponsive so I guess he had an episode between feedings, after about an hour he came back around like nothing had happened and was really hungry for a bottle. I have never seen anything like this in bottle kittens, is there anything else that can be done to prevent them from having these episodes? Is there another possible reason this could be happening?

I have no idea what is going on or why with these kittens, but at their age I would expect them to be starting on kitten food.

Sounds like description of epilepsia.  Or seizures as it is often described...  But why, and what prospects, I dont know.

Can only wish

Good luck!   *vibes*
 

They eat a mixture of a/d food mixed with formula as well as getting the bottle. They are leaning more on eating the mixture more than wanting the bottle. Hopefully this epilepsy is something they will outgrow. It will make it basically impossible to adopt them out if they are going to require medicine for life especially at this age. I checked on them at one point after it had been about 2 hours from the last feeding and one was unresponsive. My friend is taking them back to a different vet of they don't start to improve soon.

What brand of formula is being fed? Ingredients if not a commercial one would be helpful.

Sorry if I missed it, but what happened to the mommy cat?

The are on hartz brand from walmart. It was bought by the person who had them dropped off by someone in her front yard. Not sure why they were dumped but they were definitely taken away from mom too young. The kittens were fine for a few weeks before this started happening too, so it is even more baffling.

CatNamedPanda said:

The are on hartz brand from walmart. It was bought by the person who had them dropped off by someone in her front yard. Not sure why they were dumped but they were definitely taken away from mom too young. The kittens were fine for a few weeks before this started happening too, so it is even more baffling.

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It could be the ingredients in Hartz milk replacement.

"Skim Milk, Water, Calcium Caseinate, Refined Soybean Oil, Egg Yolks, Cellulose Gel, Dipotassium Phosphate, Soy Lecithin, Cellulose Gum, Magnesium Sulfate, Cholecalciferol, Choline Chloride, Ascorbic Acid, Sodium Hydroxide, Zinc Sulfate, Carrageenan, Taurine, Ferric Orthophosphate, Alpha-Tocopherol, Niacin, Riboflavin, Calcium Pantothenate, Thiamine Hydrochloride, Copper Sulfate, Manganese Sulfate, Vitamin A Palmitate, Potassium Iodide, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Sodium Selenite, Folic Acid, And Cyanocobalamin."

There's a whole lotta soy in this, carrageenan (a thickener that can cause inflammation, digestive upset, and is a known carcinogen), cyanocobalamin the synthetic (non-animal based) version instead of methylcobalmin (animal based), and any number of not-so-great ingredients that could be contributing to problems for newborns. It irks me to no end that stuff like soy (plant based and not bio-available for carnivores and may be linked to hyperthyroidism) is used as a protein source for kitties, let alone kittens. Kitties and kittens are carnivores, and therefore can not process plant-based ingredients. I also do not agree with giving babies cows milk, skim or otherwise. It could be the combination of all the ingredients over time are affecting the babies.

I have a recipe for kittens in my collection of kitty-related information, so if you want that, let me know (it differs quite a bit from the one here at TCS, and I don't want to rock any boats ). Here's the recipe from TCS: http://www.thecatsite.com/t/46295/recipe-for-kitten-formula-kitten-glop I actually fed something like this to a baby squirrel (which is a herbivore) that became orphaned. He grew up and was then released back into the wild. Quite a wonderful, rewarding experience!

Hope your little ones are doing better.

Yes, trying another replacement milk may perhaps help.    A tip:

Of all non commercial replacements goat milk seems to work well. Theoretically it is doubtful as the contain of lactose-sugar is even higher than in cow milk.

But all the rescuers and others, who did tried it, are happy, nobody complains. Also people with sensitive stomach who dont manage cow milk, usually/often manage goat milk.

Massive vibes for the little ones I would worry about using anything manufactured by Hartz How are the kittens doing? :cross:

I would get them off that hartz stuff immediately and put them kmr or goats milk.  Also, I am not a fan of science diet.  there are far better foods out there.  I know it is easy on their digestive systems but in general science diet isn't a good food.

If their appetite is good, they should continue to be fed the a/d, it is a prescription formula and is intended for ill or under-nourished cats. Sometimes people also add the hills i/d mixed together with the a/d which makes it easier for kittens to digest the food and not get diarrhea. I would pay particular attention to their poops and make sure they do not have diarrhea which is a common problem for little kittens who are no longer on their mom's milk at a young age.

If they do have diarrhea, and/or if their overall appetites are NOT good, search online for the words "kitten glop recipes" and try using that along with the a/d i/d. Also if they are dehydrated you can use a plastic syringe to squirt water into them and if they are not eating enough, you can also do that with the a/d i/d food, it is like a slushie and will go into the syringe easily.

Does anyone have an iphone or something where you can do a video of them and upload it to you tube? Then post the link on here? It does sound as if they have ingested something toxic. If they have been given any flea treatment or anything like that, (especially a hartz product) it could kill them at this young age or cause the kind of seizures you describe. 

I agree that it would be better not to use the hartz formula, their products overall are questionable for cats. You have to wonder why they are even allowed to be on the market but they are a big company with a lot of lobbyists and a lot of cats die from their stuff :-(. 

The kittens are starting to eat more wet food on their own, and they have been placed with a cat whose kittens are basically weaned so she is nursing them. They are still occasionally having seizures but they have become less and less kittens having them too.

They have not been treated for fleas or had the opportunity to eat anything toxic we ruled that out the first night they started doing this.

I have never thought anything about the hartz brand formula, I have know a few people who have raised kittens on it, and I fed it to my boys the first night after I asked the E-Vet if it was a good brand and they said yes. I knew the flea stuff was bad. I did switch to the gnc brand that is at petsmart when I was able to go there when they were open. I wont use it again if it is what is causing these issues, even though I have only used it in a pinch.
 

Suspect Hartz is the US equivalent of Bob Martins in the UK, and I wouldn't touch any BM food products.  I might have a litter tray scoop from them!

Good news about the kittens.

I was reading through lots of old threads yesterday and I came across this one....this baby was also on hartz.....wonder if there may be a connection?

http://www.thecatsite.com/t/221148/orphaned-kitten-seizures-too-late-help

Good news is that this little kitten turned out fine

but I for sure would never use anything made by the Hartz brand

Always keep this in the back of your mind.  Vets know nothing about nutrition.  The only exception to this rule are holistic vets.  Hopefully once you change the formula that will make the difference.  Please keep us posted.

DianeV66 said:

Always keep this in the back of your mind.  Vets know nothing about nutrition.  The only exception to this rule are holistic vets.

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This can be very true--vets receive very little nutritional training specific to cats, and most lump cats in the same category as dogs and treat them as such. Most only hear nutritional "advice" from the hard-sell major pet food manufacturers that have them sell their pet food--and receive compensation for doing so. That's not to say that some vets really do care about staying on top of feline nutritional needs, because some do.

Holistic vets can be good or bad, too, when it comes to food. Many "holistic" vets think that a lot of grain (rice, for example) or veggies in food is a good thing, when in fact it is not. There are books out there from well-known "holistic" vets that have diets for cats that are so not appropriate.

Bottom line: We need to do our due diligence and remember that kitties are carnivores and derive the most bioavailable nutrients from quality, human-grade real meat protein, not soy, rice, or other sources of so-called protein, which are basically fillers (and are cheap!) that bump the protein amount of cat foods up so unsuspecting or uniformed kitty care-givers will feed these foods to their cats thinking they are feeding quality protein to their kitties. Oh my...I could go on, but think y'all get the picture.

CatNamedPanda said:

I have never thought anything about the hartz brand formula, I have know a few people who have raised kittens on it, and I fed it to my boys the first night after I asked the E-Vet if it was a good brand and they said yes.
 

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:shame: Pretty sad advice coming from an e-vet.... I am just glad to hear that the kittens are doing better. Who knows exactly what is causing the seizures :dk: but, seriously, I am not a vet or an e-vet, but I know from experiences from other's demise that Hartz anything is a big .......... Much luck with those babies !!!!!!!!!! You are amazing, you know

Feralvr said:

:shame: Pretty sad advice coming from an e-vet.... I am just glad to hear that the kittens are doing better. Who knows exactly what is causing the seizures :dk: but, seriously, I am not a vet or an e-vet, but I know from experiences from other's demise that Hartz anything is a big .......... Much luck with those babies !!!!!!!!!! You are amazing, you know

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I only try as hard as I can with all these babies. Thank you for being so supportive and helpful every time. ( my phone won't use smiles or i would have some here)

The e-vet is great about giving medical advice at least, and was very helpful and patient about helping me bottle feed my boys when I first brought them home and had no clue what I was getting into. Now if a bottle baby landed in my life I would know what to do but then I was so helpless and thankful they were there for me. I guess it is a good thing I don't need to get nutrition info from them. No worries I will make sure I don't use it anymore.

Good news though the kittens seizures seem to have stopped, they have gone over 24 hours without having one. They are starting to eat some on their own too. Things are looking good for these kittens.

WhollyCat you are correct when you say that even holistic vets miss the mark when it comes to feeding cats.  I love my holistic vet but he recommends Flint River Ranch and I would never feed that stuff.  It was all the rage in the early 90s but I think most of us know better, even those who don't feed raw.  You must do your due-diligence when it comes to the care of your pets and especially cats because as much as it pains me cats are still not held in the same regard as dogs.  It breaks my heart because my kitty is so very important to me.  I will say that my vet is all for feeding raw food as well as not giving vaccines and especially not using pesticides.

DianeV66 said:

WhollyCat you are correct when you say that even holistic vets miss the mark when it comes to feeding cats.  I love my holistic vet but he recommends Flint River Ranch and I would never feed that stuff.  It was all the rage in the early 90s but I think most of us know better, even those who don't feed raw.  You must do your due-diligence when it comes to the care of your pets and especially cats because as much as it pains me cats are still not held in the same regard as dogs.  It breaks my heart because my kitty is so very important to me.  I will say that my vet is all for feeding raw food as well as not giving vaccines and especially not using pesticides.

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I couldn't agree more! I never take my vet's word for any treatment options (in non-emergency situations) that I'm not familiar with, and I do research before agreeing or disagreeing; she is fine with that. She never lets her ego get in the way of treatment, and I so admire that in her. For example: When I had my sis's kitty here for almost a year, I told my vet I was going to use the glandular supplement Thytrophin PMG to help Cole with his hyper-T, she said she had never heard of that, but that we would keep a close eye on his lab values. I was able to reduce his hyper-T medication to half and his "hyper" activity also ceased with this combination (that was so sad to watch because even on the medication at a higher dose, he just could not relax at all!). She was amazed at his values coming down and how much more relaxed and content he was. She has been a better vet because of this and weighs the pros and cons in brainstorming sessions with me when it comes to treatment options for my kitties. She has also gone to the side of minimally vaccinating her own kitties. I could give many more examples where my "holistic" view of treatment and her "allo" or "traditional" views have meshed nicely. She's also one that says, "Treat the cat, not the numbers." For an allo vet, I just gotta love her!

If a vet isn't fine with your input, it's time to find a new vet--ego's need to be checked at the door. Sorry to get OT here.