Vitamin E? Fish Oil?

mschauer said:

I would have some concern about the soy component of this product also. It seems to me that with regards to product ingredient lists "soy lecithin" and "soy lecithin phospholipids" are used synonymously and soy lecithin is a by product of soy oil production. Maybe "soy lecithin phospholipids" means that the fatty acids have been extracted from soy lecithin?

Regardless of that, my big problem with the product is that it just says it contains "omega3s" without specifying which ones. That is important because ALA is an omega3 that is abundant in plants like soy but which is not very well utilized by cats. Fish oil supplements usually specify the amount of EPA and DHA their product has. This is what raw feeders should look for because those are the omega3s cats can utilize. Humans can synthesize EPA and DHA from ALA but cats can't. The USDA nutrient database entry for soy lecithin oil, which I would think would at least contain whatever they are referring to as soy lecithin phospholipids, shows that it has no EPA or DHA at all:

Soy Lecithin Oil

Basically, I wouldn't use any product as an omega3 supplement in raw food for a cat unless it explicitly states which and how much of each omega3s are in the product and then only if the omega3s were prominently EPA and DHA.

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LDG said:

Jules, I'm not sure why you think Bio-mer isn't forthcoming about the ingredients? The information in the link you provide is from the Bio-mer website https://www.biomer.com/tripernol.html

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mschauer said:

I would have some concern about the soy component of this product also. It seems to me that with regards to product ingredient lists "soy lecithin" and "soy lecithin phospholipids" are used synonymously and soy lecithin is a by product of soy oil production. Maybe "soy lecithin phospholipids" means that the fatty acids have been extracted from soy lecithin?

Regardless of that, my big problem with the product is that it just says it contains "omega3s" without specifying which ones. That is important because ALA is an omega3 that is abundant in plants like soy but which is not very well utilized by cats. Fish oil supplements usually specify the amount of EPA and DHA their product has. This is what raw feeders should look for because those are the omega3s cats can utilize. Humans can synthesize EPA and DHA from ALA but cats can't. The USDA nutrient database entry for soy lecithin oil, which I would think would at least contain whatever they are referring to as soy lecithin phospholipids, shows that it has no EPA or DHA at all:

Soy Lecithin Oil

Basically, I wouldn't use any product as an omega3 supplement in raw food for a cat unless it explicitly states which and how much of each omega3s are in the product and then only if the omega3s were prominently EPA and DHA.

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LDG said:

Well, without spending hours on research verifying this, it seems, for whatever reason, that green lipped mussel oil manufacturers as a group don't provide the omega breakdown (according to an article on LiveStrong from Sep 2011). http://www.livestrong.com/article/528146-green-lip-mussel-oil-vs-krill-oil/
For those uncomfortable with the soy lecithin in the Tripernol, any suggestions for what omega 3 supplement should be used when a cat is intolerant of fish oils?
I believe Carolina chose the Tripernol because it is the GLM supplement with highest amount of GLM oil in it.
Anyone aware of other alternatives?

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The medicinal uses of the oil rely on the wide variety of effects of the high essential fatty acid content cis-linoleic acid (LA, n-6) and especially of cis-gamma-linolenic acid (GLA, n-6). The freshly pressed oil from the seeds is light yellow, having at least 85%–92% unsaturated fatty acids. Most of the polyunsaturated fatty acids are comprised of the essential LA and the rare GLA forms. Depending on the brand, the oil contains a minimum of 8%–12% GLA.

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PUFAs For Pussy Cats

Unlike domestic dogs, house cats have retained their hunting instincts and are not entirely dependent on humans for food. Kittens without human contact revert to feral behavior and cannot be socialized as adults. Cats are obligate carnivores, meaning they must eat meat, fish, reptiles, amphibians, and birds to live and reproduce. [15] As such, felines have specific metabolic differences from humans and dogs. [11]

Cats cannot make vitamin A from beta-carotene and require preformed vitamin A from animal sources.

Felines metabolize carbohydrates poorly and can neither tolerate nor thrive on a high-carbohydrate diet.

Cats have high protein requirements but cannot easily replace protein in the diet with other energy sources to conserve body protein. In starvation conditions, cats waste their own muscles in a matter of days.

The amino acids arginine and taurine are essential for cats. Lack of these in the diet rapidly causes blindness and death. Only animal protein provides arginine and taurine at the levels cats require.

Naturally, feline PUFA metabolism is strictly carnivorous. Cats do not eat fruit, vegetables, nuts, or seeds in their natural diet and have no need for vegetable oils, either. Cats lack some of the enzymes that enable humans and dogs to convert LA to LC-PUFAs. Because cats cannot synthesize AA, their daily requirement for AA is so high that it must be provided in the diet. [12]

Cats need only a small amount of LA (less than humans or dogs), but a normal diet supplies it and there is no need to supplement. Cats cannot make GLA from LA, but they do not seem to need much. However, GLA is helpful for cats with skin and coat problems. [16] Show cats and long-haired cats may also benefit from GLA. Squeeze a 500 to 1,300 mg capsule of borage or evening primrose oil into moist food daily or every other day, or use an oil blend as described below.

DHA is critical for cats, but they cannot make it from LNA because of the same reasons they cannot convert LA to LC-PUFAs. [16] Kittens born to cats deprived of DHA may have visual and some nervous system defects. [17] Fish oil is the only currently acceptable n-3 PUFA supplement for cats. Algal DHA may be effective, but it is expensive and has never been tested on cats. Also, vegetable matter is not part of a cat's normal diet, and algal DHA has no EPA, which could be important. Cats fed dry food or rarely fed fish may be in need of n-3 LC-PUFAs. DHA deficiency quickly reduces a cat's vision, immunity, and breeding performance. [8,11,17] Cats also suffer from hereditary and age-related retinal degeneration, conditions linked to reduced retinal DHA levels. [8] I recommend mixing one to two tablespoons fish oil or a fish oil and borage/evening primrose oil blend with moist cat food daily.

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LDG said:

Carolina's actually really busy with work, so I don't know if she's checking in. But she was looking for green lipped mussel oil because she knows Bugsy can tolerate that. It was in one of the foods he was eating before raw. :nod: I think Carolina's posts make it pretty clear SHE is comfortable giving them the green lipped mussel oil supplement she found (Tripernol), even though others would have an issue with the lecithin in it.
mschauer's point is that you can't look at the total omega 3s in the supplement, because the cats wouldn't benefit from the omegas in the lecithin if they are ALA-based, which most plant oil EFAs (essential fatty acids) are. But Carolina was purchasing it solely for the green lipped mussel oil content.
I just asked for other suggestions, because it might be helpful to others looking for alternatives. Being in the business of recommending stocks, I know it's really easy to take something apart and find the negatives, and while that can be very valuable, it's much more helpful to take the next step and then suggest an alternative.
Personally, I suspect that cats that have a fish oil intolerance probably have an intolerance to krill, only because that's part of the same food chain (typically). But it's certainly worth the try for those uncomfortable with the other ingredients in most GLM supplements (many of which have other fish oils in them, defeating the purpose of using GLM if for a fish oil intolerance!).

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