Just rescued 2 babies about 5-8wks old, one doesn't seem to be doing well

Ok, I'm still worried about Luna (Nr1) she's always seemed like the weaker one but shouldn't she be getting better? Nova (Nr2) is making leaps about bounds, literally, she is playing like a normal kitten, limp not withstanding. But Luna is still moving very slow, I have to coax her to eat, she doesn't eat near as much as Nova and she doesn't really play. She is showing some signs of improvement, she's more curious about her area, I was tossing a little toy around and after a few minutes she walked up to it and sniffed it but that was it. Last night she did bat at my fingers some, but she's not showing near as much improvment as Nova! Nova wants to play with her and tackles her but she doesn't play back, she just stays down while Nova rolls all over her. I don't know what to do for her, she's eating her wet food, I make sure there is always dry food avaliable just in case, she really really likes her milk formula, so she's getting the things she needs. She is going to the bathroom regularly too. The vet said that her lethargy could be due to the worms, but they both have worms and Nova has tons more energy then Luna.

Any ideas?!

"what is a tortie?"  Your picture of Luna is a perfect illustration - a cat (almost always female) with a coat that's a mixture of red or cream and some other colour.  It can be hard to spot in tabby cats.

Kittens are different, just like people.  Some respond better than others to being looked after, some are more affected by wormns, some get bigger infestations.

Make sure your kittens are kept somewhere warm, and make sure they don't get dehydrated - the scruff of their neck should ping back if you lift it, if it's slow like the skin on an old person's hand they need rehydration.

I think you said they've been wormed, that's good if they have, but they may well benefit from worming again in 2-3 weeks - ask the vet.

They won't be ready for their first shot until they are at least 8 weeks old (don't know if there is a minimum weight), and they look very tiny in the photos.  What colour are their eyes?

Yes, a Tortie is when the majority of fur is dark, dark brown/reddish brown, black-brown, and ther is cream/gold spots here and there.

Luna looks smaller, it maybe just the picture, not sure.

Okay so several things, the limp you described tells me some things, this is very likely from a birth defect, remember mom was surely nutrient deprived, ferals start having babies when they are teenagers, not even fully developed themselves, and they have litter after litter after litter, back to back, leaving them, and the litters more and more nutrition depleted.

This, on top of inbreeding (a cat no longer recognizes a sibling or parent after approx 7-8 months old) so they will mate with anyone available, PLUS possibly the male is not so healthy either, leads to birth defects, such as limping/under-developed feet/joints/limbs/tails, etc. Have you ever seen a cat with the tip of it's tail bent? This is a defect as well.

I do NOT think that Luna won't live, so don't worry there, she has made it past the critical age and survived, but I do think she will be slower in recovery time. I think she is not as strong and hearty as Nova (LOVE those names btw!!) and was more affected by their obvious anemia, malnourishment, etc.

Just keep an eye out, I believe week to week you will see her pregression, eventually she will catch up to Nova.

Notice her fur, how thinnish it is, you can see skin on her elbows and face, this would be lack of health/nutrition. Momma was undoubtedly not in the greatest shape.

You will fix this in time, with good food and hydration.

I LOVE that you google everything they tell you!! A person after my own heart, you are soo much like me! Great to hear

You should only have to pay the $45.00 each for the test, not another exam visit. Same thing with the vaccinations.

In rescue, we have a standard age of 8 weeks to start their vaccination series. (given 3 total, 3-4 weeks apart) However, if we rescue a kitten who was born to a feral outdoors, we can actually give it as early as 6 weeks, but like to put it off until 7 weeks or so, it's complicated but the immunity they are born with, given by mom/nature can interfere with the vaccine, making it not as effective.

My reply was getting too long so this is part 2!

Th

e Stringid is a good dewormer.

When it's time for the 2nd dose, it will rid them completely of any eggs the first does didn't, so perfect.

Also, test them for FIV and FELV, these are feline aids, and leukemia, but don't do this too young, as it will give a possible false reading of positive.

In rescue we get them spayed/neutered when they reach at least 2 pounds, but a regular vet will do it at 4 months. This is when you can have them tested.

Oh, one more thing about the limp thing.

I also have a cat route in my town of cats who are homeless and/or feral who I have trapped, fixed and returned, because for whatever reason they are not adoptable.

I feed them every other night, for the rest of their lives, and have done this for about 9 years now.

About 3 years ago, I discovered another cat colony, in the worst, dirtiest, nasty and dangerous place, I never even knew existed! I could tell the story of the huge transition that I took this area through, from first finding it, 30+ sick, ragged, dirty, lice-infested, very sad life these cats were living. There were dead cats, some with kidney failure, etc dying from no food/nutrition, cancer, it was shocking and overwhelming to me, to say the least.

To now, 4 healthy cats!!

But that's another story/thread

Anyway, back then there were these 2 kittens in particular that I wanted to tell you about.

They were approx. 4-5 months old. After trapping them to help them, one was a male and one a female.

The male had a deformed and underdeveloped jaw, making it very difficult for him to eat.

The female had deformed back legs/hips and she limped badly. She also had/still has a squeaky throat and sometimes chokes on food.

The good news here-the male I got tamed and he actually got adopted! The female (now named Sqeaky) was so much more feral, despite my efforts she was NOT going to tame, so I had to return her.

Her limping and small size made her an underdog there. Nothing I could do about it.

About 6 months ago I noticed, her limping is gone!...I have no clue how, after so long, it was just gone...

So you just never can tell, as long as her foot has nothing stuck in it, it's not broken or injured, and the joint is in place, etc. then it just may be the way she will be. In time you will know if it hurts her or what. Too soon to tell now, you will know in time.

In time they will grow thick, shiny fur, bright eyes, and strength, because of you!! You rock!  

How good of you to rescue these kittens.

I rescued a feral kitten approximately seven weeks old who seemed healthy except for being very underweight.  She had her first round of kitten shots (and tested negative) a day later.  She seemed active and healthy for another day or two, and then started to deteriorate.  Apparently her immune system was not strong enough and she succumbed to pneumonia about a week later.  I often wonder if perhaps she should NOT have been vaccinated until she gained some weight and got use to living inside; if the ‘live’ part of the vaccine and stress (good stress, but stress) made her get a URI/pneumonia.  I just write this as a cautionary tail [sic].

Ritz said:

How good of you to rescue these kittens.

I rescued a feral kitten approximately seven weeks old who seemed healthy except for being very underweight.  She had her first round of kitten shots (and tested negative) a day later.  She seemed active and healthy for another day or two, and then started to deteriorate.  Apparently her immune system was not strong enough and she succumbed to pneumonia about a week later.  I often wonder if perhaps she should NOT have been vaccinated until she gained some weight and got use to living inside; if the ‘live’ part of the vaccine and stress (good stress, but stress) made her get a URI/pneumonia.  I just write this as a cautionary tail [sic].

Click to expand...

Yeah, seven weeks was possible too young...but it's so hard to tell if they are under-nourished. We had a kitten that appeared to be only 2 weeks old...except her eyes were fully open. Turned out she was four weeks, just the size of a two week old.

For kittens under 8+ weeks, we do the intranasal vaccine.

Ritz, how sad for you, that's tragic. I'm sorry, I know you won't forget her.

Your point is interesting, I have not had this ever happen, and it makes me think about a couple of ways this can happen.

We use the MLV vaccines (modified live virus) and the #1 thing learned is that if any of the liquid happens to come out onto the cats skin, to grab some hand sanitizer and put a clop on that area and rub it in well. As soon as the cat is left alone it will lick and clean the vaccine area, and if there is so much as a drop on her fur, she will lick it and ingest the virus, making her very, very sick.

I have seen vets, who are of course very experienced get a drop on a cats fur, so I have learned to always swipe some sanitizer on the area as a precaution.

Then there is a stress/lowering immunity factor as well. An upper respiratory infection turned pneummonia couldn't be merely from a lowered immunity, at some point there has to be a contagion, even the tiniest, like perhaps the vets office...A very stressed out cat/kitten will surely have less immunity and can easily contract these germs.

NOT uncommon. Sooo many animals in and out of the vet, many URI's are extremely contagious, even airborne. Some are very hearty as well, and a small spot on the exam table not properly disinfected could definitely harbor the germ, or on the bottom of a cat carrier, set down in the waiting area, or on the exam table.

Example of the 2 biggies (Rhinotracheitis, the herpes virus, and Calicivirus) 2 horrible and very common URI's, highly contagious and hearty, 2 weeks they can survive on surfaces.

They remain contagious as long as the host is having any symptoms. Any.

In the cat vaccine (FVRCP) that's what the 'R' and the 'C' stand for.

I have seen both of these URI's many times, Calicivirus will commonly turn into pneummonia, especially in a kitten. It's ugly, for sure. Kittens don't usually survive.

The intranasal vaccine is excellent for the very young kittens, our shelters use them here for the babies as they obviously need protection NOW when taken to a highly populated place like a shelter.

Wondering if she should not have been vaccinated until she gained weight and got used to inside life, honestly, unless she would have any exposure to viruses, etc. inside the home, she probably could have waited, but then we do what we think is right, what the vet says, etc. You did not imagine that it could result in her death. Personally I believe it was not the vaccine but the exposure during the visit somehow.

I know that a reaction to the vaccine is quite fast, normally within 4 hours for an allergic reaction, and 12-18 for any other,  but coming in contact with a virus and it taking hold, when symptoms of the illness begins is between 24-36 hours, and can take up to 48 hours,

I also wonder why the vet would test her so young, we do our own testing for FIV and FELV, and can definitely get false readings on a kitten.

Suspect that testing young for FeLV/FIV can give a false positive rather than a false negative, so if the kitten tests negative it can be homed on with confidence, and will be far easier to home.  Agree that if a young kitten tests positive they need testing again later, once all the antigens from mum have gone.

Dear Ritz, thank you so much for the caution, I am so sorry to hear about your kitten! That's such a tragic story, but you did what was right, you can only do what the Dr. says. I was already considering putting the vaccines off until Luna shows a bit more signs of improvement, she does stress very easily. After your story I'm pretty certain, I'm going to push it back another week. Then they will have finished their de-wormer and hopefully Luna will get better faster.

Luna is still really worrying me! I've noticed she seems to like to just sit in their litter! Is that weird? I have never seen another cat do that!

Catwoman707, thank you so much for your stories, advice and encouragement! I'm glad Luna has made it past the critical stages, but I still worry about her. I don't know if it's just her face, but she looks sad and distressed. Last night we had a great moment though, I always sit in their pen with them after dinner and cuddle or play with them and last night, luna sat in my lap and purred for at least 45 minutes, possibly an hour, I kept thinking she would fall asleep but she just purred and purred. that made me happy. nova was a ball of fire, I'm glad to know her limp could just be from birth, i would hate to think it was broken or something. Her limp sure does NOT slow her down, she was all over the place last night until she literally crashed into may arms, and fell asleep, it was hilarious, she just collapsed!

OrientalSlave, thank you for the skin trick! I tried it on both of them and the skin was slow to bounch back. Luna has drank water from their bowl, but Nova has no interest. I thought the kitten milk would be enough, but I'm going to get them some pedialite (sp?) today to add to it. Maybe that will help get Luna moving some.

thanks again to everyone for the encouragment and advice!!

Are you mixing the kitten milk from powder or does it come ready mixed?  If you are mixing it maybe you are making it too strong, if it's ready mixed adding a little water might help.  They also look like the amount of mlik should be coming down as they will be starting to eat solid food.  You could also mix some water into their solid food as well.

Quick up Luna is playing tonight, a little slow and not a whole lot of it but i see it as a break through.

Your story is great! I hope and wish for the best!

That's great news about Luna.

And thanks catwoman and claraadele for your insight about vaccinations.  In the future I will wait an extra week or two before vaccinating a rescued cat; the stress of being moved inside in and of itself could trigger a URI.  I volunteer for a cat rescue group; I can get a cat tested for FIV/FELK within hours after I rescue any cat that I need to bring indoors. 

This kitten was rescued on a cold winter night, on the first night she found her way to the feral cat colony I feed daily, with no sign of mother cat, so probably had a very rough start to life.  But the last two weeks of her life, she had love equal to a life time.

Ritz, I know that one, we do our very best, and despite that, some we just can't save. But always remember that in a very big way we made a difference in every cat/kittens life, no matter how short or long, they felt love, safe and did not have to suffer alone. That is very, very big!

So happy to hear that Luna was a bit more playful, in time she will recover and be stronger and healthier than ever!

Something I wanted to add to the whole vaccine thing, I think in terms of my rescues, and forget that in a private home, with healthy cats, you can delay vaccinating for a bit, I wouldn't delay it beyond/up to 9 weeks however.

Even though your home/cats are safe, it's as easy as bringing in the virus on the bottom of your shoes, like Panleuk (panleukopenia) which is the cat version of Parvo in puppies, we all know how deadly that is...It's the 'P' in FVRCP vaccine.

Is EXTREMELY hearty and contagious, kittens do not survive!

All it takes is a cat peeing on the grass, it gets in the seed of that grass and comes back up year after year. It's amazing how long it lives. Step on that grass and walk in the house.

Once vaccinated they are fine, can't get it.

It's one of the biggest fears in rescue, been there...

I second that.  I volunteer for a cat sanctuary, TNR on a fairly regular basis, and feed feral/stray/dumped cats.  Even if the pet insurance I have for Ritz didn't require FVRCP, I would still have her vaccinated against it. 

Quote for the day:  to the world, you are a rescuer; to the rescued, you are their world.

Just wanted to pop in & say this was an incredibly heart-warming tale.  Mel, you really did right by these two babies!    for their continued growth & hydration especially for little Luna!

When a cat sits in its litter it is usually an attempt to retreat to a smell that she is familiar with to find comfort, even if it is the stink of her own poop.  My guess is that since these two have lost their mama and been through quite a trauma.  I would try perhaps a pheromone spray, that would mimic the pheromones that a mama cat would emit to calm her kittens, but since you are on Guam, and finding such a thing is unlikely, you might try a few drops of lavender essential oil on a blankie, or maybe a sachet in the bedding to help her to relax. 

Also, I wonder if your resident kitties may be freaking her out a bit via scent, you might pet them with a washcloth and put it under Nova and Luna's food bowls to form a positive food association..  I wouldn't pass anything from the kittens to your resident cats, though, until you know that they are free of illness and parasites.

Exchanging slow blinks with Luna will help too, it sends a message of trust and safety.  So do yawns and stretches.  and keep them in a small enclosed room like a bathroom for the time being.  They've been through alot.  Let them come to you whenever possible, and if you can help it, never drag them out from a hidey hole.  They really need to feel safe and nurtured as opposed to vulnerable.

I don't know Chamorro, but Mahalo Nui Loa and much Aloha for caring for and nurturing these fur babies.  I realize that there is a big difference in the cultural regard toward pets in the Pacific Islands.  God Bless You for your love and care of these little gifts!!

Hafa Adai! 

Hi you guys! Sorry for the delay in reply. Luna is def. getting better, she's even started playing with Nova, although she usually ends up tackled and crying. But at least she's trying. 

I have another concern with Nova though...I know it's like number 1,000! But her belly is really bloated and tight, it sounds like a little drum. But she doesn't seem to be uncomfortable, in fact she loves being on her back and having her belly rubbed. I was worried she may not be pooping, so I stimulated pooping last night and she did fine. I'm actually pretty certain she is pooping still - there is just to much poop in the litter to be all from Luna. She's very energetic and playful. Her feeding hasn't changed, she eats with gusto and she eats everything on her bowl. I'm feeding them about a teaspoon and a half of wet food 3-4 times daily. I leave dry food down for them, which they don't seem to touch, as well as water and kitten formula during the day - I have it very watered down though, so it's basically milk flavored water. Any thoughts?!?! 

Thank you Malama! I take it you are from Hawaii or some place close! Yeah, animal care in the pacific is so sad! I tried to get PETA out here when I first got here and they basically told me to fix it myself. I carry dog/puppy food with me in my car and some basic rescue stuff just in case. I've rescued more dogs in the past few years then I thought possible. I feed so many animals it's crazy. With all the money I've spent on animals I don't own in the last year or so I could have opened my own shelter. It can be a bit overwhelming! But thank you for the words of wisdom! Mahalo and Hafa Adai  

The usual cause for a bloated kitten tummy are worms, which you are 1/2 way done, and overfeeding, which is the likely culprit.

Nova will eat more than she should since they were probably ravenous and had gone without eating for a bit, so instinct is saying to gobble it all up, whether she needs it or not.

Her poop should be brownish in color, firm but moist enough for the litter to stick to it.

Overeating will show looser, yellowish/greenish color. If this is the case, simply cut back. They should eat approx. every 6 hours or so.

So glad to hear Miss Luna is doing better and better!