Gem has diabetes again, and maybe some other stuff

jkbank · Apr 3, 2012

Hi there

I've posted here before. Gem started peeing outside the litter box last summer, was diagnosed with diabetes and then after about 2 weeks, vet said blood sugar was normal and no need for insulin.

Fast forward 6 months, she was still peeing outside the box. Took her to a new vet - she's diabetic again. Started her on 1 unit insulin. Just before bringing her back for a recheck of blood sugar, she was breathing really heavily and not smoothly, and seemed lethargic. Vet said blood sugar still high, increased to 2 units insulin, and she also had respiratory infection. Finishing up antibiotics and bronchodialator, went back today. Blood sugar still high, wants to increase to 3 units. Breathing is somewhat better but not totally. Additionally, along the way she has lost a lot of fur (symmetrical, in the back part of her body) and her coat is dull, dandruff, skin is red in areas. They are looking at low thyroid as well as wanting to do an ultrasound of her heart because they hear some arrythmia.

I'm upset and frustrated, I don't know what's wrong with her, and I feel so bad for her. On the other hand, I can't take the peeing everywhere. In my own research of why cats lose fur like this, I came across Cushings disease. I know it's bad for us to play armchair vet but she really meets the criteria. The first time I went to the vet I mentioned it in a ind of joking way, just to put it out there. She acknowledged the slight possibility but said it's very rare in cats. Do you think I should call them and mention this again? Or wait for the blood test results to come back and let them do their job. Hypothyroid does seem to show similar symptoms.

Anyone been in similar situation that can offer words of encouragement?

Thanks!

sugarcatmom · Apr 3, 2012

Jkbank said:
Started her on 1 unit insulin.

What type of insulin? Is that 1u twice a day or once?

Jkbank said:
Vet said blood sugar still high, increased to 2 units insulin,

Was she there for a curve? If not, insulin doses should never be adjusted based on a single blood glucose test at the clinic.

Jkbank said:
Blood sugar still high, wants to increase to 3 units.

How long since you first started giving her insulin?

Jkbank said:
Additionally, along the way she has lost a lot of fur (symmetrical, in the back part of her body) and her coat is dull, dandruff, skin is red in areas.

Uncontrolled diabetes can also result in poor quality coat, as can food allergies. Is she still eating canned Fancy Feast?

Jkbank said:
On the other hand, I can't take the peeing everywhere.

That should resolve as the diabetes becomes better regulated. In the meantime, how many litter boxes do you have and what type of litter do you use? When my guy's diabetes was outta control and he was peeing massive amounts, I had to put a litter box in every room and change the litter to pellets rather than clumping. He would pee so much at once that it would pool around his feet with the clumping litter, so he'd go on the carpet instead. Switching to pellets allowed the urine to flow downwards and away from his paws. That may or may not be part of the issue with Gem but I thought I'd mention it as one of the possibilities. Another thing to consider is diabetic neuropathy, which can affect a cat's ability to get in and out of the litter box.

Let us know what the lab results are as that should provide some important clues.

All the best.

jkbank · Apr 3, 2012

Thanks for your response. I don't know how to reply quoting parts of the post like you did but I will try and respond to your questions

The insulin is Lantus (glargine) and 1 unit twice per day (now up to 3 units, twice a day).

Vet did not do a curve (my previous vet did have us drop off for a curve). She adjusted the dose based on no decrease in her blood sugar levels since starting the insulin (did the blood test about 6hrs post injection). Also, fructosamine test was high.

Started the insulin 3/6.

I know the fur/skin issues can be due to unregulated diabetes, I just can't help searching online for other possibilities

Do you have any knowledge on Cushings or hypothyroid?

Since we started with the new vet on the 6th, she's been eating Science Diet D/M. I have mixed thoughts on this based on research I had done when she was first diagnosed, but I decided to try it and see how it goes.

As for the litter box stuff, I've tried many different things - new and more boxes, different litter…nothing matters. She goes in the box to poop, doesn't even attempt to go in the box to pee. And pee on her paws does not bother at all - she pees on carpet, hardwood, bathroom tile, doesn't matter, and she will walk right through it after. Grooming is non-existent. I try and brush her as much as I can but she has low level of tolerance for it. My concern with the litterbox is that so much time has gone by. I know normally, once the medical issue is resolved, they go back to regular kitty behavior, but will she still do this after 7 months of not peeing in the box??

Thanks again!

orientalslave · Apr 4, 2012

I don't know how old Gem is, but I do know that hyperthyroid is fairly common in older cats, and usually it's easily treated. I suspect it's far more common than Cushings, and it certainly can make the coat thin and dull and the cat scrawny. It can also hide other medical issues. However your vet may well have already tested for it - you might want to ask next time you see them.

jkbank · Apr 4, 2012

OrientalSlave said:
I don't know how old Gem is, but I do know that hyperthyroid is fairly common in older cats, and usually it's easily treated. I suspect it's far more common than Cushings, and it certainly can make the coat thin and dull and the cat scrawny. It can also hide other medical issues. However your vet may well have already tested for it - you might want to ask next time you see them.

Thanks for your reply, she's around 13. I always get the terms hyper and hypo confused, but the bloodwork shows that Gem's thyroid levels are low (hypo, I think) and she is overweight, not scrawny. I think this is also pretty rare in cats, but they are doing further testing.

orientalslave · Apr 4, 2012

it was my understanding also that low thyroid hormones are unusual in cats. In humans the skin and hair suffers, it could well be the same in cats.

kailie · Apr 4, 2012

My Buster (a senior foster who turned into a permanent resident) was diagnosed with diabetes 2 and a half weeks ago. He gets 2 units of Caninsulin twice daily. He just went for a blood check-up yesterday and his blood sugar was still high but it was 2 hours before his next shot so the vet wasn't concerned. We're dropping him off May 1st for a curve. The symptoms HE had were he was INCREDIBLY thin, drank a lot of water and his coat was horrible, very dull and incredibly flaky. It is already much better since he started the insulin, but he hasn't gained any weight. (He hasn't lost anymore either though.) They checked him for thyroid and kidneys but both thankfully came back normal.

It really does sound like your kitty's insulin needs to be better regulated. Hopefully there is nothing more going on, poor thing, but I know how frustrating it is to not have the answers. I have heard that it can be VERY hard to regulate diabetes in cats and that constant blood testing is sometimes required. Thankfully Buster has no litter box issues. Thinking of you and Gem.

jkbank · Apr 4, 2012

Thanks Kailie

Gem has always been heavy, and her coat not the best, but it is definitely been worse, along with the hair loss on the sides. Seems it's growing back a little, but no change with the dullness and flakiness. Hopefully we will have some more info when the blood work comes back.

Good luck to you and Buster as well.

boogie · Apr 5, 2012

Jkbank said:
Thanks for your response. I don't know how to reply quoting parts of the post like you did but I will try and respond to your questions

The insulin is Lantus (glargine) and 1 unit twice per day (now up to 3 units, twice a day).

Vet did not do a curve (my previous vet did have us drop off for a curve). She adjusted the dose based on no decrease in her blood sugar levels since starting the insulin (did the blood test about 6hrs post injection). Also, fructosamine test was high.

Started the insulin 3/6.

I know the fur/skin issues can be due to unregulated diabetes, I just can't help searching online for other possibilities Do you have any knowledge on Cushings or hypothyroid?

Since we started with the new vet on the 6th, she's been eating Science Diet D/M. I have mixed thoughts on this based on research I had done when she was first diagnosed, but I decided to try it and see how it goes.

As for the litter box stuff, I've tried many different things - new and more boxes, different litter…nothing matters. She goes in the box to poop, doesn't even attempt to go in the box to pee. And pee on her paws does not bother at all - she pees on carpet, hardwood, bathroom tile, doesn't matter, and she will walk right through it after. Grooming is non-existent. I try and brush her as much as I can but she has low level of tolerance for it. My concern with the litterbox is that so much time has gone by. I know normally, once the medical issue is resolved, they go back to regular kitty behavior, but will she still do this after 7 months of not peeing in the box??

Thanks again!

jkbank · Apr 6, 2012

Boogie - I don't know if you meant to write something but nothing came up!

catsallaround · Apr 6, 2012

Relion confirm is CHEAP available at walmart.

Low carb wet food will help/eliminate insulin given-but be careful to adjust the insulin or stop it before trying this. Friskies turkey and giblets is my go to food NO cubed food/cuts and no dry.

My cats been shot free a year now. He was coming up 400-500 often and was on shots for few months before I read about Tight regulations. His normal numbers are 50-90.

Curve at home will be far cheaper and more accurate. Less stress for kitty.

Cats look real bad if its been going on awhile. Humans too.

sugarcatmom · Apr 6, 2012

Jkbank said:
Vet did not do a curve (my previous vet did have us drop off for a curve). She adjusted the dose based on no decrease in her blood sugar levels since starting the insulin (did the blood test about 6hrs post injection). Also, fructosamine test was high.

Jkbank said:
I know the fur/skin issues can be due to unregulated diabetes, I just can't help searching online for other possibilities Do you have any knowledge on Cushings or hypothyroid?

Not personally, except that they are rare in cats. There's a saying that when you hear hoofbeats, think horses not zebras. Basically, don't worry about the exotic stuff until the more likely candidates are ruled out first. How low is her thyroid number? Older cats with a chronic health condition should naturally have lower than average T4 levels anyway, so she may not technically be hypothyroid.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jkbank

Since we started with the new vet on the 6th, she's been eating Science Diet D/M. I have mixed thoughts on this based on research I had done when she was first diagnosed, but I decided to try it and see how it goes.

Is that canned or dry? Hill's M/D is probably a step backwards from what you were feeding her previously. Even the canned is too high in carbs (14% of calories) and the ingredients are lousy, not to mention that it's expensive. I would take any uneaten food back to the vet for a refund - say that she won't eat it anymore - and pick up some lower carb canned foods like Wellness or Merrick or BG, etc. There's a chart here that lists the carb content of various canned foods for comparison: http://binkyspage.tripod.com/canfood.html

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jkbank

she pees on carpet, hardwood, bathroom tile, doesn't matter,

Is there any pattern to her peeing? Does she have spots that she regularly goes to or is it just random? If you were to put puppy pee pads in various places, do you think she'd use those instead? Wouldn't be ideal for the long-term, but at least it would be easier to clean up.

jkbank · Apr 6, 2012

Thanks Sugarcat for all your help on this.

I've just brought Gem to stay with the vet for a week as we are heading out of town on vacation. While she is there, they will do a curve and hopefully get her more regulated.

When we got the first diagnosis, I got a testing kit to try and keep track of her levels. Perhaps after we get back I will give it a try. I do have the keto sticks and try to test for that when I can.

I don't remember what the thyroid levels was but we are waiting for the final results for the blood work to come back, and we'll take it from there. It's hard to know exactly how to treat her when we don't know all the underlying conditions. Additionally, the last time we were at the vet, this past Tuesday, they heard some irregularity in her heartbeat so they want to do an ultrasound as well, see what's going on with that and her breathing.

Yes, she's been having the canned prescription food. When she gets back from the vet I will try out some other food options. I've been to that web page before, will look into it again.

No real pattern to the peeing. We do put pads down, and she will kind of stand on the edge and pee half on and half off of it. So then we put a pad down where she peed and so 3/4 of the floor is covered in pads! While she is at the vet for the week, we are going to do an extra good cleaning in that room in anticipation of her coming home. I know getting all the smell out is key, but it's hard to do since she keeps peeing and I don't have too many options of where else to put the litter box. We have to redo the floors but I"m not going to do that until this is under control. And it doesn't seem to matter because she pees in places where there is no smell either.

Hopefully after a stay with the vet we will have some more answer.

jkbank · Apr 19, 2012

Hi all

Gem seems to be doing ok, better than when we brought her home Friday from her week at the vet, still not so energetic but better. I decided to give home BG testing a try best I can. I'm not at home to test every hour or even 2 hours but am trying to get a bunch of samples over a few days and see what I come up with. She is currently on Lantus/glargine 3u twice a day, at about 7AM and 7PM, with her meals. She is eating all wet food, mostly Purina DM but I am working in some grain free high quality cans as well (Merrick, Wellness etc). Here's what I have so far:

4/18 about 5:30 PM - 351 (about an hour pre-shot, about 10 hrs post-AM shot)

4/19 7:00 AM (pre-shot) - 409 (shot given at 8AM)

4/19 at both 11:30 and 12:30 - 373

These numbers don't look great to me - wouldn't you expect that noon-ish, midway number to have come down more? I know it's hard to tell from so little info, and I will keep going with the testing, but I was interested to hear any feedback anyone has on this.

Thanks so much

Gem has diabetes again, and maybe some other stuff

jkbank

TCS Member

Thread starter

sugarcatmom

TCS Member

jkbank

TCS Member

Thread starter

orientalslave

TCS Member

jkbank

TCS Member

Thread starter

orientalslave

TCS Member

kailie

TCS Member

jkbank

TCS Member

Thread starter

boogie

TCS Member

jkbank

TCS Member

Thread starter

catsallaround

TCS Member

sugarcatmom

TCS Member

jkbank

TCS Member

Thread starter

jkbank

TCS Member

Thread starter

Latest Posts

Connect with us