Should I go with Cat Chow Naturals or Purina ONE SmartBlend Indoor Advantage dry food?

Willowy · Mar 8, 2016

Canned foods look low in protein but you have to remove the moisture to calculate the true amount. OK, so Fancy Feast has 78% moisture, so 22% is the actual food. 11% is half of that, so Fancy Feast is 50% protein. The dry food has 10% moisture, so 90% is actual food. 26% is less than 1/3 of 90 so that food is only about 30% protein. Whatever is left over after all the protein, fat, fiber, etc. is carbs. It's called dry matter basis, and it's the only way to make a proper comparison among foods (even human foods). I know I don't explain it well, I'll see if I can find a site that explains it better.

But, yes, canned foods have more protein than almost any dry foods. There are a couple very high protein kibbles but not many. Protein in canned food is also more likely to be animal protein instead of pea protein or soy protein like a lot of kibbles have. Now, it is possible to make a very high-carb canned food---a lot of canned dog foods are very high-carb. But I haven't found any canned cats foods that are high in carbs. Yet! Of course it's important to read the labels to make sure they didn't try to sneak anything in.

And it's not that cats are "too stupid" to drink water---they're desert animals, designed by nature to get their moisture from the flesh and blood of their prey. So it's not natural for them to get most of their water by drinking. Of course, some cats do drink enough, but some don't, and they end up with urinary problems or kidney problems. It's something for cat owners to keep an eye on, for sure.

catomight · Mar 8, 2016

imwilling said:
...It sounds like a wet food 'conspiracy" to me. Why not look at the ingredients of the food before making claims of 20% carbs.

* I use Diamond Naturals (see below). Not seeing 20% carbs in this one and also contains10% moisture.

* 64 years old, have 3 cats and had them all my life. Never had a problem with any cat with issues eating dry food. ...

* Feeds Blue Buffalo, another low/no carb blend.

* Never had one issue with any of these of any other cats. Sister in law, 4 cats, same thing.

* I dunno, not hearing about anyone I have ever talked to saying, my cat is not healthy or sick because of dry food.

Took liberty of separating your points.

1. Not a conspiracy. There is plenty of statistical data from qualified sources - not just a few individuals' experience w/ 1 to 50 cats, that cats eating dry food only have greater risk of health problems, the longer they eat it.

2. Carbs are never reported on labels. They must be back calculated using guaranteed analysis (inaccurate method) or get from mfgs - "typical nutritional analysis /composition." Sometimes off by a lot - sometimes relatively close.

3. 10% moisture is drastically less than the 70+% water cats need (or get) in their natural diet. According to experts (not cat owners), this one fact leads to serious diseases in a large # of cats - overall. Study after study show when fed dry food, vast majority of cats do not drink near enough extra water, to make up deficit from dry food vs. live prey or canned food. Regardless if using drinking fountains, etc.

4. Blue Buffalo "does not release (any) typical nutritional composition to the public." Blue Buffalo told me this in email, & Dr. Lisa Pierson, DVM reported same. She contacted nearly all cat food mfgs & compiled detailed nutritional composition chart - canned foods (they don't release dry food info, either). http://www.catinfo.org/?link=cannedfoods#Contacting_Pet_Food_Companies_

Then we know nothing other than guaranteed analysis values, which are inaccurate (only minimums / maximums), can be misleading AND are incomplete.

If a company does not willingly divulge 'typical nutrient analysis' information, then I will not use their products.
... Four companies that have refused to provide their "proprietary" data are By Nature, Blue Buffalo, Stella & Chewy's, and PetGuard.
Mars has also refused to provide TNA data for Whiskas and Sheba.

... Note that nearly all of Blue Buffalo's canned foods are high in carbohydrates - including their 'grain-free' lines.

... IMPORTANT POINT: "Grain-free" does not necessarily mean low-carb.

Guaranteed Analysis:
Crude Protein (min.) 26.0%
Crude Fat (min.) 16.0%
Crude Fiber (max.) 3.0%
Moisture (max.) 10.0%

Carb content can't be accurately calculated from guaranteed analysis. But your example, plus assuming 2% ash, it comes to 57%.

That leaves (potential) 43% carb content, on as fed basis. That is not an unusual carb value in many dry foods (which is FAR too high).

It could be less, because guaranteed values could be more or less than stated. If protein & fat are substantially higher than guaranteed, then carbs will be lower.

But, it'd need to be a lot lower than 43% to be considered a healthy level for "obligate carnivores," that only get small amounts of partially digested plant matter from stomach contents of prey.

You don't feed meat to cows or iguanas. People would think you were an idiot. Cats' natural diets contain very little carbs & eating excessive amounts causes many issues - often serious or fatal - in a very substantial % of cats.

Hope this helps some people consider overall potential potential problems of steady dry food .

bonepicker · Mar 8, 2016

As you can see a lot of members on TCS are pro wet food!

jkmm · Mar 8, 2016

bonepicker said:
As you can see a lot of members on TCS are pro wet food!

I agree most are very pro-wet food. I also think that this site is very pro feed the best you can, even if that is store bought cheaper wet food and most members here are reasonable to understand that kibble is a necessary for many because of crazy schedules, costs, and other real life factors. But it's just silly to come on here and pretend like there is some conspiracy and dry food is as good an option as wet, when it never is. The cheapest wet is a better option that dry. You can't argue with biology, cats have biological requirements and to try and pretend that dry food is as good as wet at accomplishing these things is just ignorant.

imwilling · Mar 8, 2016

Well all I know is, out of 100% of the wet food my cat eats, 10% of that is protein. Period. If it was more, the label would say so. Out of the 100% of the dry food my cat intakes, 26% is protein. I guess it can be counted any way you want to look at it. I am looking at what the labels report. When I give them wet food it has all this "gravy" which I doubt has any value at all, which adds a ton of a filler moisture ingredient, they eat it and it fills them. I prefer dry food over wet food that does not contain as much as 80% moisture filler and that is my choice.

imwilling · Mar 8, 2016

You brought up the conspiracy theory not me, consider that before you call someone ignorant

imwilling · Mar 8, 2016

JKMM said:
Moisture does not = carbs in a food. If you do a calculation to determine carbs the food you listed is 50% carbs. Hard to argue a food is "ok" for animals that are supposed to be eating mostly protein when the food your feeding is 1/2 carbs.

Waiting for your formula as to how you come up with 50% carbs...I must have missed your response to that

Elfilou · Mar 8, 2016

imwilling said:
Actually the opposite. It sounds like a wet food 'conspiracy" to me. Why not look at the ingredients of the food before making claims of 20% carbs. I use Diamond Naturals (see below). Not seeing 20% carbs in this one and also contains10% moisture. 64 years old, have 3 cats and had them all my life. Never had a problem with any cat with issues eating dry food. Daughter is a cat lady with 11 well taken care of vetted and spayed rescue feral cats. Feeds Blue Buffalo, another low/no carb blend. Never had one issue with any of these of any other cats. Sister in law, 4 cats, same thing. I dunno, not hearing about anyone I have ever talked to saying, my cat is not healthy or sick because of dry food.
Guaranteed Analysis:

Crude Protein (min.) 26.0%

Crude Fat (min.) 16.0%

Crude Fiber (max.) 3.0%

Moisture (max.) 10.0%

DHA (Docosahexaenoic acid) 0.05%

Zinc (min.) 150 mg/kg

Selenium (min.) 0.3 mg/kg

Vitamin E (min.) 150 IU/kg

Omega-6 Fatty Acids* (min.) 2.5%

Omega-3 Fatty Acids* (min.) 0.4%

It's not a conspiracy, but i'm glad to say people have become more enthusiastic about it the past few years. I find feeding wet food to be more species appropriate. It's not a 'feed wet or youre a horrible petowner' thing, though. We know that a lot of pet owners love their pets, whether that be dry or wet food feeders, and we all do what we think is best for our cats. Budget is a big thing; dry is cheaper, and was specifically made to be easier for humans. Not easier for our cats.

With the example you gave of 11 cats though, I can get why she can't feed 11 cats wet food. That would be going into the $100's every month. the food you listed seems like an okay dry food. Just a quick question; is there no taurine in it?

A few things though, lol. Moisture is not a filler. You need to deduct the moisture before you look at protein percentage. You're saying gravy would fill them up but isn't that great though? You can only feed a little dry, and because of the "empty" moisture in wet they can enjoy more meals. Which is also good for cats, since their body is made to eat multiple small meals a day.

Feeding dry is a choice most people can understand, but saying that its better than wet is simply looking at it from a human perspective, imo. I hate the smell of wet food and it's even made me enjoy meat a lot less, so if it was on me i'd only feed dry. But i'm personally convinced that's not what's best for my kitty.

jkmm · Mar 8, 2016

imwilling said:
Waiting for your formula as to how you come up with 50% carbs...I must have missed your response to that

http://scheyderweb.com/cats/catfood.html

You think all these different experts, vets, biologists are all in favor of wet food why?

Willowy · Mar 8, 2016

imwilling said:
Waiting for your formula as to how you come up with 50% carbs...I must have missed your response to that

26% protein, 16% fat, 3% fiber, 10% moisture = 55% so that food is 45% carbs. OK, maybe a bit less because they didn't list ash. If you figure it on a dry matter basis (without the moisture), 50% carbs.

11% protein, 5% fat, 1.5% fiber, 78% moisture, 3% ash = 98.5% so that food is 1.5% carbs. 7%carbs on a dry matter basis.

Here's the carb calculator: http://scheyderweb.com/cats/catfood.html

Yes, only 10% of what your cat is eating with canned food is protein, because about 80% of it is water. Now, if you're concerned with getting the most nutrient dense food for your money, canned food is a poor value in that regard. If you're more concerned with your cat getting enough moisture, and wanting a food with more animal protein, canned is a better value in that regard. Just depends what you want

.

And, yes, I agree that reality is a factor. Cost, convenience, etc. are all things people have to consider. My cats only get about 2.5 oz of canned food each per day. I do think cats should always have SOME canned food in their diet if at all possible. But I fully recognize that feeding all canned food isn't possible for most people.

AbbysMom · Mar 8, 2016

Just a reminder to all that while Cat Nutrition is a topic that many get very passionate about, please avoid personal remarks or insults.

Kat0121 · Mar 8, 2016

imwilling said:
Well all I know is, out of 100% of the wet food my cat eats, 10% of that is protein. Period. If it was more, the label would say so. Out of the 100% of the dry food my cat intakes, 26% is protein. I guess it can be counted any way you want to look at it. I am looking at what the labels report. When I give them wet food it has all this "gravy" which I doubt has any value at all, which adds a ton of a filler moisture ingredient, they eat it and it fills them. I prefer dry food over wet food that does not contain as much as 80% moisture filler and that is my choice.

The reason that canned foods are preferred by a lot of people is the moisture. Cats do not have a high thirst drive by nature and therefore get most of the water that they take in from the food that they eat. Obviously, they do not get this from dry food.

According to everything I have read, the way to determine the amount of carbs in a food whether dry OR wet is to add up the protein, fat, moisture, fiber and ash then subtract that number from 100 and what is left is the carbs. Since manufacturers are not required to list the ash on the label, you can't really add it in if it's not listed or you can use an average of 5. So for the dry you mentioned, we will add 5:

Guaranteed Analysis:
Crude Protein (min.) 26.0%
Crude Fat (min.) 16.0%
Crude Fiber (max.) 3.0%
Moisture (max.) 10.0%

Total (including ash) is 60 %. That would put the carb percentage at 40% ( not 50%)

You mentioned Fancy Feast. I feed FF as part of the wet food rotation but only the classics (pates)

FF Classic Chicken

Crude protein 11.0%

Crude Fiber 1.5%

Ash 3.0%

Crude fat 5.0%

Moisture 78.0%

The above totals 98.5% leaving 1.5% carbs.

Yes, at the end of the day, it is your cat and your choice. If what you're feeding is working for your cat and for you, then keep on doing what you're doing.

catomight · Mar 8, 2016

To OP - I don't find a Purina One Smartblend indoor advantage. The Smartblend line seems to be canned; the advantage is dry. I assume you mean the dry?

Guaranteed analysis:

protein 38% min, fat 8.5 min (means could be lot more) , fiber 4.3% max, ash - not listed - assume 7% max, moisture 12% max.

Those = 69.8% (using guaranteed analysis). Of that, 88% is dry matter.

Depends on if powdered cellulose contributes any carbs or not - assume not for now.

That leaves100% - 69.8% = ~ 30.2% carbs, on "as fed basis." A whole lot of carbs for cats.

On dry matter basis - removing water, the estimated carbs would be 0.302 / 0.88 = 34.3% carbs. So you want to feed a strict carnivore - a cat - some food w/ 34.3% carbs?

Or any food w/ anywhere near that much carbs? Don't you like the cat?

Seriously, why are those your "only 2 choices?" Do you get those 2 for free? If pay for them, they're not your only choices.

Honestly, we can't calculate the true carb content, because we don't know the real protein, fat, fiber or moisture content. They're min / max values, which can & do vary significantly from the stated value (fat could be 9% or 15%; moisture could be 5%, etc.). The carbs are probably actually lower than 30.2% (34.3% DM), but will still be very high, as are most dry cat foods - except a few very expensive ones.

When you see many ingredients like, brewers rice, corn gluten meal, soybean meal, whole grain corn, dried yeast, powdered cellulose, soy protein isolate, soybean hulls - you know the carb content will be high. Soybean hulls?

poultry by-product meal, fish meal - anything w/ "meal" is the lowest quality, most over processed form of meat they can possibly use.

When they use "animal" fat preserved with mixed-tocopherols, "animal" liver flavor - (word "animal" - & don't state a species) it means they're allowed to use euthanized cats, dogs - and almost anything else.

If cat owners never intend to pay a vet once they get sick (looking at large statistics), then feeding dry food may be cheaper. If they would pay a vet, then dry food may be the most expensive they can buy. I've experienced it 1st hand & personally know many others have. I can't afford big vet bills anymore, so don't feed dry anymore.

imwilling,

To compare apples to apples - in pet food, must compare them both on a dry matter basis (DM).

On a dry matter basis, most canned foods will have much higher protein than the guaranteed analysis value.

People are deceived & confused about this (partly because pet food mfgs keep it that way).

Even dry food isn't 100% dry.

There are plenty of "as fed" to dry matter basis converters / calculators online. Either for dry or canned food. It's not hard - 6th grade math.

One tutorial explaining (there are simpler plug & chug converters): http://www.thecatsite.com/a/how-to-compare-cat-foods-calculate-carbs-dry-matter-basis.

If canned food has 78% moisture, max, that = 22% dry matter, including ash (whether or not listed).

If can says "11% protein, min" then 0.11/0.22 = 0.5, or 50% or more protein on DM basis. Higher than most dry foods on an equal DM basis.

Because most dry food contain a lot more carbohydrates than half decent canned food.

Again, can't calculate accurate values of most nutrients from guaranteed analysis, because they're "minimum / maximum values." We need the "typical nutritional composition" - generally from the mfg or from charts - people gathered the data.

Then people say, "Aren't you just paying for water?" Or, "can't you just add water to dry food?"

On the former - yes & no. Are you paying for water in steak from the store?

What if they dehydrated the steak & processed it to death, destroying or reducing much of the natural enzymes & amino acids, that make it so nutritious for humans?

You don't think that "real meat" in a dry kibble, at room temp, exposed to (some) oxygen, retains all it's important food value for months & months?

Sure, old time jerky - properly processed & preserved w/ smoke & salt lasts a long time, but would anyone say it was just as nutritious as a fresh steak?

Most everything I've read says not to add water to dry food, unless they eat it immediately. Others can research as to why, but that eliminates the convenience of leaving out dry food.

So those are the main reasons why many vets & (qualified) animal nutritionists says most dry foods aren't the best choice for cats - obligate carnivores.

* The typical very high carb content in most dry foods (many are 30 - 40% on as fed basis).

That alone is enough to make many people avoid it, unless you buy a very expensive "low carb" dry food. But for all foods, "no grain" doesn't always mean low carb - at all.

Some canned foods are too high in carbs.

* The lack of required water, that study after study show most cats don't drink enough to compensate for dry food.

Fresh prey / meat contains ~ 70 - 78% moisture (how bout that?).

This often leads to all kinds of problems - UTIs, FLUTD, kidney problems - many others.

* The meat quality (or state of being) in dry food. Not even canned food meat will be nearly as nutritious as fresh meat.

From all I've read, high carbs (which break down into sugars) is suspected by many vets & researchers for the dramatic increase in feline diabetes & several other conditions / diseases.

Cats simply don't digest or assimilate carbs very well - it's not a large part of their natural diet & causes many cats problems down the road. One person looking at 1 to 20 cats doesn't begin to tell what % of all cats develop health issues from dry food - esp. cheap dry food. High carbs also causes many cats to gain excessive weight.

Note: Purina & many mfgs say, "Wholesome grains help maintain your pet's (cat) energy." Cows don't eat meat & cats don't eat grain (by choice).

When the gov't stupidly allowed cattle feed producers to include animal protein, it was said to be the main cause of outbreak of mad cow disease. Cattle have no resistance to meat borne pathogens.

Dogs are a different animal - omnivores & can eat grains, nuts & berries, but prefer meat as main diet - not cracked corn.

jkmm · Mar 8, 2016

CatOMight said:
To OP - I don't find a Purina One Smartblend indoor advantage. The Smartblend line seems to be canned; the advantage is dry. I assume you mean the dry?
Guaranteed analysis:
protein 38% min, fat 8.5 min (means could be lot more) , fiber 4.3% max, ash - not listed - assume 7% max, moisture 12% max.
Those = 69.8% (using guaranteed analysis). Of that, 88% is dry matter.

Depends on if powdered cellulose contributes any carbs or not - assume not for now.
That leaves100% - 69.8% = ~ 30.2% carbs, on "as fed basis." A whole lot of carbs for cats.

On dry matter basis - removing water, the estimated carbs would be 0.302 / 0.88 = 34.3% carbs. So you want to feed a strict carnivore - a cat - some food w/ 34.3% carbs?
Or any food w/ anywhere near that much carbs? Don't you like the cat?
Seriously, why are those your "only 2 choices?" Do you get those 2 for free? If pay for them, they're not your only choices.

Honestly, we can't calculate the true carb content, because we don't know the real protein, fat, fiber or moisture content. They're min / max values, which can & do vary significantly from the stated value (fat could be 9% or 15%; moisture could be 5%, etc.). The carbs are probably actually lower than 30.2% (34.3% DM), but will still be very high, as are most dry cat foods - except a few very expensive ones.

When you see many ingredients like, brewers rice, corn gluten meal, soybean meal, whole grain corn, dried yeast, powdered cellulose, soy protein isolate, soybean hulls - you know the carb content will be high. Soybean hulls?
poultry by-product meal, fish meal - anything w/ "meal" is the lowest quality, most over processed form of meat they can possibly use.
When they use "animal" fat preserved with mixed-tocopherols, "animal" liver flavor - (word "animal" - & don't state a species) it means they're allowed to use euthanized cats, dogs - and almost anything else.

If cat owners never intend to pay a vet once they get sick (looking at large statistics), then feeding dry food may be cheaper. If they would pay a vet, then dry food may be the most expensive they can buy. I've experienced it 1st hand & personally know many others have. I can't afford big vet bills anymore, so don't feed dry anymore.

imwilling,
To compare apples to apples - in pet food, must compare them both on a dry matter basis (DM).
On a dry matter basis, most canned foods will have much higher protein than the guaranteed analysis value.
People are deceived & confused about this (partly because pet food mfgs keep it that way).

Even dry food isn't 100% dry.
There are plenty of "as fed" to dry matter basis converters / calculators online. Either for dry or canned food. It's not hard - 6th grade math.
One tutorial explaining (there are simpler plug & chug converters): http://www.thecatsite.com/a/how-to-compare-cat-foods-calculate-carbs-dry-matter-basis.

If canned food has 78% moisture, max, that = 22% dry matter, including ash (whether or not listed).
If can says "11% protein, min" then 0.11/0.22 = 0.5, or 50% or more protein on DM basis. Higher than most dry foods on an equal DM basis.
Because most dry food contain a lot more carbohydrates than half decent canned food.
Again, can't calculate accurate values of most nutrients from guaranteed analysis, because they're "minimum / maximum values." We need the "typical nutritional composition" - generally from the mfg or from charts - people gathered the data.

Then people say, "Aren't you just paying for water?" Or, "can't you just add water to dry food?"
On the former - yes & no. Are you paying for water in steak from the store?
What if they dehydrated the steak & processed it to death, destroying or reducing much of the natural enzymes & amino acids, that make it so nutritious for humans?
You don't think that "real meat" in a dry kibble, at room temp, exposed to (some) oxygen, retains all it's important food value for months & months?

Sure, old time jerky - properly processed & preserved w/ smoke & salt lasts a long time, but would anyone say it was just as nutritious as a fresh steak?
Most everything I've read says not to add water to dry food, unless they eat it immediately. Others can research as to why, but that eliminates the convenience of leaving out dry food.

So those are the main reasons why many vets & (qualified) animal nutritionists says most dry foods aren't the best choice for cats - obligate carnivores.
* The typical very high carb content in most dry foods (many are 30 - 40% on as fed basis).
That alone is enough to make many people avoid it, unless you buy a very expensive "low carb" dry food. But for all foods, "no grain" doesn't always mean low carb - at all.
Some canned foods are too high in carbs.

* The lack of required water, that study after study show most cats don't drink enough to compensate for dry food.
Fresh prey / meat contains ~ 70 - 78% moisture (how bout that?).
This often leads to all kinds of problems - UTIs, FLUTD, kidney problems - many others.

* The meat quality (or state of being) in dry food. Not even canned food meat will be nearly as nutritious as fresh meat.

From all I've read, high carbs (which break down into sugars) is suspected by many vets & researchers for the dramatic increase in feline diabetes & several other conditions / diseases.
Cats simply don't digest or assimilate carbs very well - it's not a large part of their natural diet & causes many cats problems down the road. One person looking at 1 to 20 cats doesn't begin to tell what % of all cats develop health issues from dry food - esp. cheap dry food. High carbs also causes many cats to gain excessive weight.

Note: Purina & many mfgs say, "Wholesome grains help maintain your pet's (cat) energy." Cows don't eat meat & cats don't eat grain (by choice).
When the gov't stupidly allowed cattle feed producers to include animal protein, it was said to be the main cause of outbreak of mad cow disease. Cattle have no resistance to meat borne pathogens.

Dogs are a different animal - omnivores & can eat grains, nuts & berries, but prefer meat as main diet - not cracked corn.

Amazing post, very well said and explained. To clarify to the OP a bit more Purina changed the name of the Smart Blends dry to "Purina one purposeful nutrition indoor advantage."

imwilling · Mar 9, 2016

Thanks for the link. The only thing that is being left out of the calculation of the wet food is the wet matter carbohydrates. How is that calculated in? It is hard to believe that all that wetness has no carbs at all.

Kat0121 · Mar 9, 2016

imwilling said:
Thanks for the link. The only thing that is being left out of the calculation of the wet food is the wet matter carbohydrates. How is that calculated in? It is hard to believe that all that wetness has no carbs at all.

The kinds with gravies tend to have more carbs than pates do (most coming from the gravies) but you would use the same method to make the calculation. Add up the protein, fat, moisture, fiber and ash then subtract that number from 100 and what is left is the carbs. So for example we'll look at two.

Wellness cubed chicken

Numbers from Wellness website:

Protein 8%

Fat 4%

Fiber 1%

Moisture 82%

Ash 2.8%

Total: 97.8 % so that leaves 2.2 % carbs

Fancy Feat Gravy Lover's Grilled Chicken

Numbers from Fancy Feast website

Protein 9%

Fat 2%

Fiber 1.5%

Moisture 82%

Ash 3%

Total: 97.5% leaving 2.5 % carbs

http://fnae.org/carbcalorie.html

My cats go through phases with food. They will want all pates and then no pates. Then it's shredded, then chunks then minced or flaked or whatever. I often will mix foods. This morning for example, I split a can of pate between the dishes and took a can of shredded and topped the pate with it. It gives them different flavors and textures in the same meal which gives them some variety. They won't eat the same meal twice in a row. They will decide out of the blue that they no longer like something. Usually after I buy a case of it of course. Then that food gets shelved for a while and reintroduced later down the line after they have forgotten that they don't like it. Doesn't that sound fun? The joys of picky eaters. My Henry used to be so good with foods until the diva sisters gave him picky lessons. He turned out to be an A student.

catomight · Mar 12, 2016

Kat0121 & imwilling,
pet food experts always point out, that calculating carb content using guaranteed analysis (either as fed, or DM basis) is inaccurate, at best.
Because the guaranteed analysis values - protein, fat are minimum values. Can often be higher, or near stated values.

Moisture & ash (if listed) are MAX values - they can & often are lower.

1) The example from guaranteed analysis (these are "as fed" values, not DM):

Protein 8% min

Fat 4% min

Fiber 1% max

Moisture 82% max

Ash 2.8% max

Total: 97.8 % "so that leaves 2.2 % carbs." Note - the carbs probably aren't this low - though could be.

2) What if the "typical nutritional composition" (obtained from mfg) is more like:

Protein 11% - actual

Fat 4%

Fiber 0.75%

Moisture 73%

Ash 2.0%

= 90.75%, leaving 9.25% carbs (on an AS FED basis).

Ex. 2 isn't an unusual variation from guaranteed analysis. Typical analysis often vary significantly from guaranteed analysis, especially water.

If you want accurate values - of ALL components, you must get typical nutritional composition (some call it profile) - from the mfg.

It's the only way to accurately calculate individual components, including carbs. Sometimes you must call the mfg & wait to get it. It's worth it to know what you're actually feeding. If they have ANY health problems, it can be a necessity.

Some Co's - like Blue Buffalo say - a direct email quote to me, and Dr. Lisa Pierson's reported experience,"

Code:

"We do not provide detailed nutrient profiles to Pet Parents."

I politely asked several times, saying I like to know the real nutrients, just as my children's or my own food.

IOW, Blue Buffalo thinks you have no right to know the nutritional composition you're feeding a pet.

To compare canned to dry food on = basis, must convert to dry matter - DM - remove water.

In Ex. 2, if take out 73% moisture, that leaves 27% DM - for all else.

To get the % of a component contained in TOTAL DM, divide the component's % or decimal fraction, by total DM% or fraction.

Ex. 2: Protein - .11/.27 = 40.7% protein on DM basis. [1].

DM Carbs would be 0.0925 / .27% = 34.3% carbs on DM basis. A lot.

[1] Note: Calculated from guaranteed analysis - possibly quite inaccurate.

* Most dry foods, on DM basis will have much > carb content & < protein than decent canned food.

What about those "minimum values?" If actual moisture = 70%, & the GA states 4% fat, min., but is really 8% (typical analysis), on DM basis, that's a diff of .04 / .30 = 13.3% vs. .08 / .30 = 26.7% fat. A huge diff. Same goes for carbs.

Owners also need to get the typical analysis values for phosphorous (P) & magnesium (Mg). And research acceptable levels. Many foods are too high & can lead to serious health problems.

On large scale - not a 10 to 50 cat sample, high carbs fed over long periods can cause large numbers of various diseases. Coming from vets, true animal nutritionists & vet school studies. From overall risk / statistics, Uncle Bob's 5 cats eating Meow Mix dry food & never getting sick is meaningless.

Not all cats develop diseases from high carbs, lack of water, too high P & Mg levels, poor quality. Some of mine DID, confirmed by vets. Not all smokers get cancer.

It's owner's choice - how much to spend vs. risking health problems and would they pay for vet treatment of sick animals. If they will pay a vet, statistically - better food - preventative diet & general care is likely far cheaper in the long term.

I'd also suggest it's cheaper to make your own food, than buy middle of line or higher dry food.

Purina Pro Plan Savor Adult Dry - fairly inexpensive (not a HQ food, not the worst) is $36.80 incl. tax @ petsmart = $2.30 / lb. It's not a "low carb" food, has lots of grain / plant matter & fish. IOW, not a great food to avoid health problems.

You can buy chicken thighs on sale (here) for $1 / lb - quite often. Pork loin for $1.25 - 1.50. Organ meat - chicken hearts / liver is cheap (cats need this).

I doubt the few other ingredients in most vet's recipes will add that much per lb of finished food. Quality & nutrition would be far superior to anything in a can or bag.

Should I go with Cat Chow Naturals or Purina ONE SmartBlend Indoor Advantage dry food?

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