Peas? Potato Starch? Fish Meal? Yikes!

ldg

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There are definitely studies out there indicating that the digestability of peas (and probably potatoes) is fine with cats. But those same studies exist for corn, and wheat gluten, and brewer's rice, and corn gluten, etc. etc. etc. IMO, you have the same problem with peas and potatoes that you do with corn and rice and wheat. Cats digestive systems are not designed to be eating them. The "damage" done from eating them will be less, most likely, because you'd be feeding a smaller relative amount, I guess.

In the end, cats have zero nutritional requirement for carbohydrates and starch. Their bodies are not designed to digest them. But just like there are people that smoke and never develop cancer and live to be 90+ years old, there are cats that can live on junk food and survive into their late teens. :dk:

IMO, feeding peas and potatoes and "chicken meal" or whatever to cats, with otherwise (apparently) relatively decent ingredients, would be the equivalent of a human eating three balanced meals a day (maybe a few whole grains here and there, but mostly highly processed grains, the meat is factory farmed, the fruits and vegetables are not organic and you don't wash them before using them, so potentially traces of pesticides, herbicides and maybe some fertilizer), and snacking on a LOT of very highly processed sweets, so a solid amount of white sugar for the body to contend with.

It's not the worst diet in the world, and overall, whether or not it will cause you problems has a lot to do with your genetics and how well your body deals with all that sugar while batting the highly processed grains, various food additives, and some pesticide/herbicide/fertilizer residue here and there. :dk: It's a diet that serves most Americans fairly well. We certainly survive on it, and most of us into our 70s and 80s. It's not ideal, but for most, it mostly works with some health complications along the way, many of those affected by genetic predisposition.

Potatoes, as an ingredient, have been linked to diabetes in cats.

BTW - I have the same view of most canned diets. It's still highly-processed food subject to high heat, and even when an ingredient is "chicken," it's still far inferior to the human definition of "chicken." In the end, this is why I've taken control of our cats' diet. Now all I need to do is provide DH and I the same level of care, and maybe we'll begin to thrive the way our kitties are! :lol3:
 
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sevenwonders

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But let's compare that to some of the higher end wet foods. If you feed 5.5 oz cans, it takes 2.9 cans to equal a pound of food.
Weruva: 2.49 (where I live) for a 5.5oz can. ($7.24 per pound)
Before Grain: $1.99 for a 5.5oz can. ($5.79 per pound).
Wellness grain-free: $1.69 per 5.5 oz can ($4.92 per pound).
If you feed 3 oz cans, it takes 5.3 cans to equal a pound of food.
At roughly $1.19 to $1.69 per can for higher-end stuff, that's $6.88 per pound - $9.01 per pound.
Thanks for talking with me about this LDG - I value your input!  


True - feeding High Quality cat food is not cheap.

I'm really glad I found PFD. On Auto Ship, my 12.5 oz cans of Wellness Grain Free cost about $2.00 per can, ($21.39 per case of 12, plus shipping) or $2.56 per pound.
 
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sevenwonders

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There are definitely studies out there indicating that the digestability of peas (and probably potatoes) is fine with cats. But those same studies exist for corn, and wheat gluten, and brewer's rice, and corn gluten, etc. etc. etc. IMO, you have the same problem with peas and potatoes that you do with corn and rice and wheat. Cats digestive systems are not designed to be eating them. The "damage" done from eating them will be less, most likely, because you'd be feeding a smaller relative amount, I guess.
All good points!  


When considering these foods, I was wondering "why" peas or potato starch would be any less "bad" for them than Brown Rice... I still do wonder.

As far as the amounts go, that is my biggest hesitation about Innova Prime - peas are the 3rd and 6th ingredient.

Evo seems to have a large amount of Herring Meal.

I wonder if Herring Meal is any less likely than Fish in general to contain Mercury or to cause kidney problems?

Blue Wilderness not only has Potato Starch - I noticed yesterday that it also has Whole Potatoes (far down the list, but still there.)  

Fortunately, we have switched to mainly wet food, along with the home made Chicken.

I'll continue to keep the dry to a minimum...

I just wish I could figure out which dry is the "least likely" to do them any harm.  
 

ldg

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Thanks for talking with me about this LDG - I value your input!   :rock:

True - feeding High Quality cat food is not cheap.

I'm really glad I found PFD. On Auto Ship, my 12.5 oz cans of Wellness Grain Free cost about $2.00 per can, ($21.39 per case of 12, plus shipping) or $2.56 per pound.
And IF you had the time and inclination, you could be feeding home-made raw for $2.70 per pound. :) http://www.thecatsite.com/t/241317/what-60-lbs-of-homemade-ground-looks-like

The ground food I was feeding cost $5.07 per pound (including supplements and shipping), but now that I'm not using commercial mixes, my cost is coming down considerably. :) (My 8 cats eat about 2 pounds of raw food a day).
 
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sevenwonders

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Thanks everyone for your input. 


I still wonder about the effects (if any) of feeding a relatively large proportion of peas, but I went ahead and ordered a 5 lb bag of Innova Prime.

Until I can do more research on potatoes and potato starch, I've decided to phase out the Blue Buffalo Wilderness.

I still have not heard back from Blue regarding the amount of Potato Starch and Fish Meal in their Chicken Formula. 


Even though I don't love the amount of Herring Meal in the Evo, I might order a bag of that to replace Core in the rotation - at least it doesn't have Potato Starch.
 
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sevenwonders

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Blue Buffalo Wilderness Chicken

Ingredients:

Deboned Chicken, Chicken Meal, Turkey Meal, Potato Starch, Fish Meal(natural source of Omega 3 Fatty Acids), Chicken Fat (naturally preserved with Mixed Tocopherols), Peas, Whole Potatoes...

I have sent an e-mail to the Blue Buffalo company asking them to tell me the percentage of Fish Meal and Potato Starch in this product. Assuming they reply, I will share the information in a future post.
Well, I finally received a reply from Blue Buffalo.   

It was not worth the wait.

They will not disclose the proportions of Fish Meal or Potato products in their formula.

They stated that they follow AAFCO guidelines for ingredients.

Impressive? I think all pet food companies follow those guidelines, don't they?

It is my understanding that AAFCO guidelines allow for the use of euthanized pets and "Road Kill" (described as "Meat" or "Meat by-products") in Pet Food,

so I really do not consider their AAFCO reference to be reassuring.

They also stated that they do not test for Mercury,

but that the levels in the types of fish that they use are "inconsequential" according to the FDA...

the same organization that approved the use of BGH which passes through cows to the milk we drink.

The FDA also approved Genetically Modified, Glyphosate soaked vegetables for human consumption.

Once again, using the FDA as a reference is hardly reassuring.

However, my "venting" over their reply is not intended to imply that Blue Buffalo is not much better than average -

I absolutely do think that they make good quality products for our Kitties.

However, their reply was irrelevant to the information I requested.

I wanted proportions of these ingredients so that I might be able to make

a better informed decision regarding the foods I feed my Kitties.

In their defense, they did sign off with "I hope this helps."    
 

ldg

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Carolina found a grain-free AND starch-free kibble. It's by Wysong: Epigen 90. The Epigen Formula is starch-free, but not grain free. You would need to scroll down to the Epigen 90. It is sold for both dogs and cats (and ferrets, I believe). I do not know if it meets AAFCO recommended guidelines for "balanced and complete" as many Wysong foods/formulas are meant to be used in rotation, but thought I'd give you a heads up.. http://www.wysongepigen.net/ingredients.php
 
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sevenwonders

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Carolina found a grain-free AND starch-free kibble. It's by Wysong: Epigen 90. The Epigen Formula is starch-free, but not grain free. You would need to scroll down to the Epigen 90. It is sold for both dogs and cats (and ferrets, I believe). I do not know if it meets AAFCO recommended guidelines for "balanced and complete" as many Wysong foods/formulas are meant to be used in rotation, but thought I'd give you a heads up.. http://www.wysongepigen.net/ingredients.php
Thanks Laurie - I'll check into it   
 

mani

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Hi @Moona, and welcome to the site!


This thread is over two years old, and the product you mentioned has been mentioned in the two posts before yours.

Would you like to introduce yourself here?  It's always good to meet new members.
 

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Good morning,

My dog is allergic to peas and some fish namely salmon and a whole list grains and environmental's as well,  this was confirmed with testing by my vet. My cats no food issues so far. I feed my dog Natures Logic and it works well for him,  Check the cat products they might fit your need. One other plus no artificial anything no Chinese supplements ect,.   

Hope this helps.
 
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sevenwonders

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Thanks for your reply. One of my kitties had urinary tract issues on GF dry, so they all eat canned food now, with a few kibbles of California Natural Chicken and brown rice thrown in to give them some jaw stimulation.

Thanks again!
 

moona

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Oh, I'm sorry I didn't see that! 

I was feeding my cat, Loki, Wellness Core when I realized they had ingredients that cats shouldn't eat, so I found Wysong online.  When I was introducing the new food, I started with a little bit of the Wysong mixed with the Wellness, and gradually added more of the Wysong.  Before I switched fully over to Wysong, I noticed he was picking the Wellness kibble out of the bowl, putting it on the ground, then eating the Wysong! 
 
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