I don't completely agree, sorry
http://www.felinenutrition.net/b12.html
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"Royal Canin Hypoallergenic HP"
- Thread starter southpaw
- Start Date
http://www.felinenutrition.net/b12.html
Hi Southpaw. I agree, a low quality diet can cause so many problems. One of my cats has issues with IBD and we tried the food you mentioned and he did not respond well to it either. It wasn’t until we got him on Natural Balance limited ingredient line that his issues cleared up. We started him on their duck & green pea cans (duck is the first ingredient) and now he eats the dry version too. Both are grain-free which I think really helped him get back on track. Just wanted to share my experience – these issues are not fun and I hope you find the right food for Jinx soon!
Oh...... There is no downside of giving a cat who is not B-12 deficient injections 4-6 weeks? We will have to agree to disagree here.....I don't completely agree, sorry. My experience is that even if a cat tests normal for B12 levels, there can still be much benefit in giving the injections, and there is no downside since it's water soluble. In fact I wouldn't even do the test, I'd just go ahead with a 4-6 week trial of weekly injections and determine from that if it's helped. A vial of B12 is cheaper than the blood test for it. More info:
http://www.felinenutrition.net/b12.html
Bugsy has done the tests.... And there was no costs added to it as far I know (in addition to super-chem) If it was, it was too little to consider a bother :nod:. And it proved to be right...... A changed of diet was spot on all he needed...... NOT injections of what he DID NOT need it for 4-6 weeks
Look, I am all for it if a change of diet doesn't resolve the issues.... sure.... But to just go for it before changing a diet when the issues can be resolved with a diet change? To me it makes no sense whatsoever. Been there done that.... With many many medications..... To no avail.... Diet and IBD go hand and hand.... It is the utmost thing you have to do to clear the issues.... Really, #1 thing you should do.... Then, if it doesn't work, you move along to the next thing.... For many cats, diet alone will resolve IBD issues.... other cats will need supplemental treatments..... Depending on the cat, different things, that is for the vet to decide, depending on test results.....
And yes, I recommend testing nonetheless.....
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If that was the situation for you, that's great! But here it costs an additional $50+ the last time I had it done. A vial of B12 is less than $15. But the point is that the test may not pick up a deficiency anyway.
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Originally Posted by Carolina
And it proved to be right...... A changed of diet was spot on all he needed...... NOT injections of what he DID NOT need it for 4-6 weeks
Oh absolutely - a diet change is key!!!. But for many cats, B12 injections can also be very helpful. One of my cats had severe IBD and even though he tested normal for B12 levels, I gave him injections anyway. The difference in his appetite and attitude was profound.
(I'm not trying to debate the issue, honest! Just wanted to explain some other aspects to B12 use. You are certainly entitled to disagree with me
Hey, we agree on the diet change! But some cats have pretty significant damage to their intestines and additional B12 can provide immediate help until they heal (which takes time, even on a better diet).
It is not a matter of costing $50 versus costing $15..... It is a matter fo giving your cat injections for 4-6 weeks that might be absolutely unnecessary...... for what? 35 bucks?
If that was the situation for you, that's great! But here it costs an additional $50+ the last time I had it done. A vial of B12 is less than $15. But the point is that the test may not pick up a deficiency anyway.
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Oh absolutely - a diet change is key!!!. But for many cats, B12 injections can also be very helpful. One of my cats had severe IBD and even though he tested normal for B12 levels, I gave him injections anyway. The difference in his appetite and attitude was profound.And it proved to be right...... A changed of diet was spot on all he needed...... NOT injections of what he DID NOT need it for 4-6 weeks
(I'm not trying to debate the issue, honest! Just wanted to explain some other aspects to B12 use. You are certainly entitled to disagree with me :happy3: ).
It is not that it worked for me...... And I understand you had great success with it - great for you! :bigthumb: Again, it doesn't work for ALL cats - while Diet management, specially raw, does.
Here is the thing with IBD and diet:
Cats are obligate carnivores..... which means they are made to digest meat, and only meat - meat, organs and bones - nothing else - they completely lack the ability to digest vegetables, fruits, additives, chemicals, or anything that is not meat. Cats, differently than dogs, to make things more complicated, are not scavengers - they need fresh meat.
In IBD cats, their immune system works in overdrive, per se - and anything that is NOT meat, that they are not meant to digest, is seen as a foreign object. The body immediately starts to produce antibodies when they eat that food, and that cause inflammation, and the results you see, are vomit in some cases, if that inflammation is in the upper digestive tract, or, in the lower, diarrhea.
Different things in the food, can cause that - the cat can have a reaction to the grains, to the vegetables, to the additives, chemicals, or to several of these things together. The reason why a raw diet works so well for those cats, is that you don't remove ONLY grains, or only vegetables, or only chemicals - you remove everything that can possibly be considered foreign to them, making their diets highly digestible and no longer capable of creating an inflammatory cycle/response.
That's why it is the #1 thing you can do for your pet..... A diet change.... And that's why for many, many IBD kitties, all it takes, is a species appropriate diet, for all these issues to resolve on its own - without any medication....
Sure, some cats, with extreme issues, will need further help.... But usually, when you remove the inflammation triggers, you will see a phenomenal response.....
Truly, the OP.... you have many many options to seek..... it is your choice... no one can tell you to do anything..... All I can say is that I have gone through the end of the World and back with Bugsy..... and I wish this was the first step I would taken.... It would saved us not just money, but a lot of heartache.... vet trips, and months and months of disease.....
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Isn't taking a vitamin similar to diet management? Of course it's not a substitute for an appropriate diet change, but I honestly can't see how taking a B-12 supplement would harm anybody. It's frequently recommended for humans, too, and is considered quite harmless. Rather like taking extra taurine or lysine. . .can't hurt, might help.
Carolina, you're preaching to the converted. I've been all about a raw diet for cats for many many years. For ALL cats, not just ones with health issues. I don't quite understand why you're so adamantly opposed to B12 injections without testing serum B12 levels. It's really not that big of a deal, and as Willowy says, it can't hurt.
I am not adamantly opposed to it.... I AM opposed to an unnecessary treatment/series of injections..... if it is not going to make any bit of a difference to the cat.... and that is my stand.... so again, we will agree to disagree.
Except that you don't know if it's going to make a difference or not until you try it. Kind of like giving probiotics to a cat during a diet change, or glucosamine or Adequan to a cat with arthritis.
I have my cats on a hypoallergenic Royal Canin food but it's a different one. It's the rabbit based food, it has more protein than the one you mention, and no grain ingredients.
I have one cat Mr Grey with severe allergies and eosinophilic granuloma complex, and he had intestinal inflammation similar to IBD as well. One of his siblings also has suspected EGC/allergies and another may have ECG as well...
Mr Grey's rodent ulcers cleared up on this food but he still had some other symptoms, my vet thinks he may also have environmental allergies. He's now on Cyclosporin which has cleared up the rest of his symptoms and he is no longer underweight either. Unfortunately before we started the cyclosporin the only thing which worked was steroid shots every 4-6 weeks but now we have been able to get off the steroids.
I have one cat Mr Grey with severe allergies and eosinophilic granuloma complex, and he had intestinal inflammation similar to IBD as well. One of his siblings also has suspected EGC/allergies and another may have ECG as well...
Mr Grey's rodent ulcers cleared up on this food but he still had some other symptoms, my vet thinks he may also have environmental allergies. He's now on Cyclosporin which has cleared up the rest of his symptoms and he is no longer underweight either. Unfortunately before we started the cyclosporin the only thing which worked was steroid shots every 4-6 weeks but now we have been able to get off the steroids.
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My cat Jynxie is having the same symptoms, issues as SouthPaw's Jinx. She just turned 11 and i'm no getting her on the hypoallergenic Royal Canin. Luckily she eats it but she still wants/misses her old food. Today was day one without any of her old food. She has had every test possible except the scope which would be next if this doesn't change things.
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My little girl Jynxie (left smaller cat in my profile pic) ended up getting scope and we got answer to what is causing her condition. Unfortunately preliminary results show lymphnoma cancer in her stomach so we are awaiting final results that will determine what we can do. Biggest regret is not getting scope earlier as this has been going on over 12 months now. As long as she is not in pain (doesn't appear to be but as we all know cats hide it very well) and acts normal I plan to see what treatment options are available as there is a animal cancer center about 40 miles away. Has anyone on here been down that road? Thank you in advance.
