Bladder Stones...

Ugh so I recently posted about my cat going potty in my dog's food bowls. I took him to the vet today and as it turns out it is a bladder stone. They saw it on the ultrasound. I felt like something had to be wrong and not so much behavioral because it was so out of the blue.

Anyway they told me he  needed to have surgery which would cost 800-1000 dollars.  This hurts. That is a lot of money. I asked if there was any other way to take care of this. The doc explained to me the two different kinds of stones and only one can be dissolved. She explained to dissolve they put him on a certain food(SD?) . But she said she doesn't find that it works for cats much. She said she might try it with a dog...but cats really don't like the Sd food and if he isn't eating it...it won't work. Then there is the fact that it could be the other stone which doesn't dissolve.

As of now he is scheduled for Wednesday. It doesn't seem like I have much of a choice.  They put him on Clavomox for infection.  I am going to go read the thread about tricks for getting pills in a cat..

Does anyone know anything about bladder stones? Does this all sound right? Does the price seem correct? The doc said that I will have to switch my cat's food to Royal Canin something. This would be a forever thing.  I asked if it was ok for my other cat and was told he would be ok on it too. 

I currently feed Chicken soup of the cat lover's soul . Is Royal canin the only ph balancing food?  Are there other options?

Thanks for any input or advice you guys can give!!!

The 2 types of bladder crystals (stones) are struvite and oxalate. Oxalate crystals can't be dissolved and require surgery to remove. Struvite crystals can be dissolved with a diet that produces highly acidic urine. When one of my cats had struvite crystals she was put on Hills SD for a week and then Hills CD for maintenance. Both foods were highly effective at dissolving the crystals and then preventing them from forming again.

From what your vet said it sounds like your cat has struvite crystals but I don't understand why she said the diet change isn't effective for cats. I've never heard that before. In fact I've heard many people say they had exactly the same experience as me.

Maybe the crystals are oxalate? Can you call the vet office and ask? 

She explained to me the two types of stones. I don't think she truly knows because she told me they would send it out after removing it and find out which one it is?

I did ask if there was an alternative and the vet told me that most cats do not like Hills sd and she doesn't see much success trying to dissolve it?? 

She told me after the surgery I would need to switch my cat to ph balancing food like Royal Canin(something ..I cant remember). But I was wondering..wouldn't canned food be better? I would think that getting a lot of water into cats would be a priority ...?

When I was faced with having to put Jeta on a diet that would prevent the struvite crystals from forming again (Hills CD)  I researched options other than the prescription diets. Theorically a non-prescription food can do the trick. But you'll have to put a lot of effort into finding the right food and then you'll have to be very vigilant to make sure the formula for whatever food you use isn't changed such that it doesn't work anymore. You know the rx foods will always work. Well, in rare cases they don't work but the vast majority of the time they do.

I choose to feed Jeta a raw food diet. A diet of raw meat keeps the urine acidic enough to prevent struvite crystals from forming except with the same caveat as with the rx foods. In rare cases raw food doesn't work either. But feeding a raw diet rquires a lot of work to learn how to do properly.

Personally, I wouldn't feed Jeta  anything other than the rx foods or raw. Anything else is too risky.

Sersee said:

She explained to me the two types of stones. I don't think she truly knows because she told me they would send it out after removing it and find out which one it is?

I did ask if there was an alternative and the vet told me that most cats do not like Hills sd and she doesn't see much success trying to dissolve it?? 

She told me after the surgery I would need to switch my cat to ph balancing food like Royal Canin(something ..I cant remember). But I was wondering..wouldn't canned food be better? I would think that getting a lot of water into cats would be a priority ...?

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Yes, wet is better but the wet prescription foods *generally* aren't liked too well by cats. The dry are usually better accepted. Royal Canin also has a line of prescription foods. They would work in the same way as the Hills foods I used with Jeta before switching to raw.

The Royal Canin is what they want me to switch to after his surgery. They told me my other cat can be switched too. I sometimes give them wet food as a treat and have thought about adding that back in every night but gradually increasing the amount. Does Royal Canin also have a good wet food to help stabilize the ph level.

I am just overwhelmed right now...they came in , told me what was wrong , said "it requires surgery and will cost 800-1000 dollars and scheduled me for Wednesday. Has anyone had any luck in talking to their vet about lowering the bill?  Basically they said there was no choice but surgery.

The vet should perform a urinalysis and tell you exactly what kind of stones these are..... If Struvites, you should be fine managing with diet.
Also, there shouldn't be a need for antibiotics if there isn't an infection - especially Clavamox..... Clavamox can have nasty side effects for some.... and will do nothing for stones. Clavamox will treat infections, not stones. I would ask for a urinalysis, at the very least, before going ahead with anything.

Sersee said:

The Royal Canin is what they want me to switch to after his surgery. They told me my other cat can be switched too. I sometimes give them wet food as a treat and have thought about adding that back in every night but gradually increasing the amount. Does Royal Canin also have a good wet food to help stabilize the ph level.

I am just overwhelmed right now...they came in , told me what was wrong , said "it requires surgery and will cost 800-1000 dollars and scheduled me for Wednesday. Has anyone had any luck in talking to their vet about lowering the bill?  Basically they said there was no choice but surgery.

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I just thought of something. Maybe the stone is so large that she thinks it is mostly likely oxalate and so won't dissolve and/or it being so large there is a chance it could move lower into the digestive tract and possibly cause a dangerous obstruction and so it needs to be surgically removed immediately regardless of what type it is.  

Sersee said:

The Royal Canin is what they want me to switch to after his surgery. They told me my other cat can be switched too. I sometimes give them wet food as a treat and have thought about adding that back in every night but gradually increasing the amount. Does Royal Canin also have a good wet food to help stabilize the ph level.

I am just overwhelmed right now...they came in , told me what was wrong , said "it requires surgery and will cost 800-1000 dollars and scheduled me for Wednesday. Has anyone had any luck in talking to their vet about lowering the bill?  Basically they said there was no choice but surgery.

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Was this your first time at this vet? Or is this your regular vet? What do you know about them, and how comfortable are you with them? How much do you trust them? For how long have you gone in there?

mschauer said:

I just thought of something. Maybe the stone is so large that she thinks it is mostly likely oxalate and so won't dissolve and/or it being so large there is a chance it could move lower into the digestive tract and possibly cause a dangerous obstruction and so it needs to be surgically removed immediately regardless of what type it is.  :dk:

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That is very possible, and a question worthy asking..... however, if that was the case..... don't you think they would done the surgery today?

Carolina said:

mschauer said:

I just thought of something. Maybe the stone is so large that she thinks it is mostly likely oxalate and so won't dissolve and/or it being so large there is a chance it could move lower into the digestive tract and possibly cause a dangerous obstruction and so it needs to be surgically removed immediately regardless of what type it is.  

 

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That is very possible, and a question worthy asking..... however, if that was the case..... don't you think they would done the surgery today?

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I have no idea. I've given up trying to read people's minds. From a distance at least. 

mschauer said:

I have no idea. I've given up trying to read people's minds. From a distance at least. :lol3:

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:spit:

Yes, I would also get a second opinion. :nod: (Thank you for taking him to the vet!!) If yous're interested, you could try a cats-only or holistic vet in your area. We have databases for those if you'd like to find one.

IF you do have to get surgery, they have something called Care Credit, which is a kind of credit card for health bills, including vet bills. Depending on which plan you get, they charge no interest if you pay off your balance within 6, 12, 18, or 24 months. (After that, interest is pretty steep, like 26% steep for some, so be careful.) If you need more time to pay for the surgery this could be a great option, though not all vets take it.

But yes. As long as he doesn't require immediate emergency surgery, which since his appointment isn't until Wednesday it doesn't sound like he does, I would definitely get a second opinion.

Thanks for all the info... 

This is my regular vet...but there are a few of them at the practice so the particular one I saw is new to me. I haven't dealt with any emergencies yet...so I haven't had a chance to figure out how I feel about them. Does that make sense? I have only brought my pets in for well visits and boarding for my dogs.

I am going to have to call because I think I was overwhelmed and not hearing everything. I think the vet said it was big . I remember her telling me that they couldn't get him in for today so if he could just hang on for one more day, they would do it on Wednesday.

I just put a call into the vet...so I should ask:

Did she do the urinalysis?

How big is the crystal?

Can I try the special diet?

I am not sure if there is an actual infection or not.  I looked up The royal canin...and it's full of grain..I don't understand how that would be better for my cats? Ugh I hate not knowing. They seemed rushed to get him in so I haven't had a whole lot of time to figure it out.

I will do the surgery if needed. I have the $$ . It's steep but thank you refund! Is it bad for me to ask for a discount if I pay it all at once?  I don't want to fool around with diet if he will need surgery anyway. I certainly don't want it lodging..but You guys are saying they should be able to tell what type of Crystal? I know they took urine from him..

I figured out how to edit..yay!!

I just called the vet and she explained to me that is was a large stone. They did not do a urinalysis because they couldn't get any urine from him. She is treating him with the clav just i case ..I guess. Plus they put him on it when the surgery is done to keep an infection from coming. She told me that they could try the diet if I really wanted to  but she is concerned. The stone is large and it will take awhile to shrink. If waiting for it to shrink, it gets small enough to fit into the urethra..that will be a problem. She also said it will be an even bigger problem if he doesn't want to eat the food. Also, if it isn't the stone that shrinks....she says that stone is good enough size to pose a problem. I asked for a discount if I paid it all at once...and I also asked for an estimate. The doctor originally said that it usually runs about 800-1000..but now they have it at 600-750. Which is somewhat better

Well, it sounds to me like she knows what she's talking about...but then again, I've never had a cat with stones.  I know what you mean about the grains and yucky stuff in prescription food, but it DOES serve it's purpose.  Just too bad no prescription food seems to have good ingredients.  Some of it actually contains animal digest , probably to make it taste good to them!

How great that you got the cost down .  So...are you going ahead with the surgery tomorrow, or what?

I hope the surgery goes well if that is what you decide to do. Will you be putting him on a good quality all wet diet once the surgery is over?

Yes, I talked it over with my husband and think it is probably the better idea to go with the surgery. I felt a little better after talking to the vet. I am nervous about it, but would also be nervous about waiting and it getting lodged. She told me cats recover quite well from the surgery. 

I would love to put him on a good quality wet..but I wouldn't know what that was. The vet recommends Royal Canin dry but I looked at the ingredients and cannot figure out how that would be better for him. Royal doesn't seem like that great of a food. When we researched it way back when...Chicken Soup was a decent pet food and that is what I have him on. I was talking to my sister who is quite knowledgeable and she told me her cat got a uti while on the Chicken soup food also..so although it was good ingredient wise..I am not sure how neutral it kept the urine...so I don't even know where to start about the food..I need to figure it out before he gets home though...I have two other cats that will have to be switched also..

It used to be that you were supposed to switch food gradually...is it still like that?