Koko most likely has IBD - a new journey for me

momofmany

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It's annual check up time in my household and this year, my poor baby Koko drew the short straw. She had been losing weight slowly over the last few years, but I wasn't prepared to hear that she had dropped down to 7 pounds. I hate when the change is so slow that you don't notice it outright. And I kick myself for attributing some of her behavior of late simply to the fact that she is now considered a senior.

Her blood work came out bad, which made us step back and talk through the changes that I had noticed in her. She has classic signs of IBD. No one in the house has diarrhea, but I have seen more vomit, and our dogs have a very bad habit of running to a cat when they hear them hacking, so I know that most messes (when I'm not home or sleeping) are cleaned up and never noticed (yeah, dogs are bad that way). She's also a lot less playful (which I attributed to her age), but she did refuse to play with Da Bird a few weeks back (should have been a huge red flag to me).

Of course an endoscopy or biopsy is needed to confirm it, but we're starting on medication immediately to see if things start to stabilize. She goes back to the vet in 3 weeks to retest her blood and see if things have changed.

If IBD, she'll join her brother Muddy in taking medication for the rest of her life. I gave her the first pill last night, the first time I've had to pill her ever, and she wasn't good about it. She'll have to learn that medication is not an option for her poor baby!

I start researching IBD today. Never had to go thru this particularly disease with a cat so am still a newbie with it. My greatest fear is that she will need a special diet, which is always harder to give when you live in a multi-cat household, and when another cat in the house is already on a special diet. She eats some of Muddy's special diet, and something in the back of my head is nagging at me that it may be contributing to the issue she is having.

I know, deep breath time.
 
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sugarcatmom

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So sorry to hear about Koko! Having dealt with IBD in one of my kitties, I know it can be a tough condition to get a handle on. What does Koko eat now, and what is Muddy's special diet?

Something to ask the vet about is cobalamin (vit B12) injections. These can help tremendously with appetite and nutrient absorption. You can learn to give them yourself at home to reduce costs. Some info on that here: http://vetmed.tamu.edu/gilab/research/cobalamin-information

I highly recommend having some slippery elm bark powder on hand. It helps sooth the digestive tract and is good for both vomiting and diarrhea. There are other supplements as well that can be useful but may take some trial and error to find out what combo works best for Koko: http://www.holisticat.com/ibd.html

Not sure how you feel about feeding a raw diet, but that is probably the single biggest help when it comes to treating IBD. Just ask Carolina and Bugsy! Some links to check out on that topic:

http://www.catnutrition.org/ibd.html

http://feline-nutrition.org/health/carnivore-digestion-and-inflammatory-bowel-disease

http://www.felineoutreach.org/Education/IBD.html

I would also hold off on doing any kind of biopsy in an attempt to diagnose IBD. It isn't actually all that accurate, and doesn't really change the course of treatment unless you're trying to figure out if lymphoma is involved (and even then, I don't see much merit in having it done). Scroll down to point #8 at this link to read more on that: http://www.histovet.com/W95.asp

As for Koko's blood work (was a urinalysis also done?), was there anything in it that might indicate renal issues? That can sometimes manifest as chronic vomiting and gradual weight loss.
 
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momofmany

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Thanks for your insights. I had actually experimented with a raw diet in the past and Koko was the one that seemed to love raw more so than anyone. I will go down that road if I need to.

We talked about a urinalysis, but because all of her other blood values were so normal (kidney, liver, etc), we opted out on it. I also agree on not doing a biopsy. The treatment for her, whether it is IBD or some digestive tract cancer would be the same.

Muddy eats a diet for urinary issues. I push wet food all the time, and Koko does seem to prefer wet over dry, although she does eat some of his dry C/D and some of his wet Purina UR. She also eats other wet foods. I know I'll have to entice her over to her own diet.

The bit that I've been reading is that mostly this is idiopathic (unknown origin) and no real cure for it. Been there, done that with others, so I know we're about to start a trail and error period for the next few months to figure out how to stabilize her, while keeping her brother Muddy from stressing out over a potential change of diet routine for him. When Muddy stresses, he blocks.

Yes, Muddy and Koko are littermates. They were orphaned at 10 days old so didn't have a great start in their lives. It almost doesn't surprise me that the 2 of them would have health issues as they grew older. They both have idiopathic diseases that are not curable.
 

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Amy,

aside from the fact that when this article was written many vets believed in long-term treatment with corticosteroids for IBD - and many still do, you'll find very good information in it.

http://ibdcrohns.about.com/gi/dynamic/offsite.htm?site=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.bestfriends.org%2Fmembers%2Fhealth%2Ffelinflbwl.htm

And when you go down to Dietary Therapy you'll find this very, very important information from Dr. Muns

Even if dietary therapy alone doesn't resolve the cat's symptoms, it can allow other treatments to be more effective. Occasionally, a cat can be completely weaned off oral medication and maintained on dietary therapy alone. One possible explanation for the efficacy of dietary therapy is that it helps the intestinal tract to compensate better, despite ongoing inflammation.

Effective dietary therapy for feline LPE involves feeding the cat a diet that is unlikely to trigger an immune response within the intestinal tract
.

So please, if Koko is willing, do everything you possibly can to allow the right diet to work for her so that you won't have to rely on long-term corticosteroid therapy.

Endoscopy can be helpful for one reason. The way my vet explained this to me, the results of this test allow the vet to see how serious the disease is and start treatment based on these results. There is no guesswork involved, the vet can use the precise amount of medication necessary for effective treatment.

Weight loss is always a concern even if there are no other symptoms such as vomiting and diarrhea. I don't want to try to talk you into doing an endoscopy (even though in this situation it would make an awful lot of sense) but I would like to urge you to have X-rays, ultrasound, and an fPLI test done to cover everything.

I really believe that Sugarcatmom and Carolina can be enormously helpful to you when it comes to finding a diet that will allow the intestinal inflammation to subside, the body to heal itself.

And I pray that IBD is all you'll have to deal with and not anything more serious.
 
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momofmany

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ldg

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That's weird - the link worked for me.

Amy - I'm so sorry. :hugs: :vibes: :vibes: :vibes: :vibes: :vibes: I hope you're able to get her stable with happy insides. :rub: I don't know much about IBD, and have no experience with it - just via Carolina and Bugsy.

If the endoscopy would differentiate between IBD and lymphoma, I'd definitely do it. From a diet perspective, you may still want to make the same changes, but at least you'd know whether the stress of a diet change is as critical as it would be if it is IBD, you know? :hugs: :hugs: :hugs: :vibes: :vibes: :vibes: :vibes:

And yes, eating Muddy's food is probably exacerbating the problem, there's so much corn and other "stuff" in the a/d, if it is IBD, it may really be contributing to the problem. :slant:
 
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momofmany

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After 3 days on pred, Koko actually played with Da Bird last night for a little bit. Of course when 5 other cats came running over and barreled their way into the game she stepped aside, but its a first step.

I'm heading out to the pet health stores around here today to talk to them about possible diets that won't hurt Muddy, but will change the carb/protein mix from what I've been feeding them. At least the dry food for now, as she eats some wet, but not enough of it and I do leave dry food out. My vet is clueless about diets so I'm not going to get help there. I am also starting to work Koko into her own special spot to eat so if it comes down to it, she can have her special food.

One step at a time.
 

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Have you considered a grain free diet? More protein, less sugars and bad carbs. Many, many IBD kitties do very well when a diet is changed to a grain free food. Grains are pure sugars that overwork the pancreas which in turn overworks the other organs, including the bowels and GI tract.
 
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momofmany

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Have you considered a grain free diet? More protein, less sugars and bad carbs. Many, many IBD kitties do very well when a diet is changed to a grain free food. Grains are pure sugars that overwork the pancreas which in turn overworks the other organs, including the bowels and GI tract.
I've gone down the path of grain free diets when Muddy got FLUTD and grain free alone didn't help him. In fact, my entire household revolted at the grain free foods. I researched most of the higher quality foods today and the majority of those have some fish in them, which Muddy can't eat.

When I read about IBD, there's an emphasis on changing out the grains and proteins that they currently eat, as they are the ones that are contributing to the condition. The food they are on is mostly corn based, so I'm looking for ones without corn and fish, and if they are higher in turkey over chicken content (mine don't like red meat foods), even better. I've yet to find anything that fits the bill.

When one of the health food stores couldn't help me today, they gave me the name of a holistic vet that they consult with for cat nutrition. I'm going to get an appointment with her for this discussion. The poor woman at the store was stumped when I gave her my requirements:

Must be dry (converting all to wet or raw will stress out my seniors).
FLUTD cat.
IBD cat.
17 year old cat with a different auto-immune disease.
The rest of the household are seniors also.
I can't mortgage my house to pay for the food (OK, maybe I'll budge on that one).
 

sugarcatmom

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I've gone down the path of grain free diets when Muddy got FLUTD and grain free alone didn't help him. 
If it was grain-free kibble, then no, it wouldn't help much.
Must be dry (converting all to wet or raw will stress out my seniors).
 
What about if you did a super-slow transition to wet? Like over a couple or more months? Or secretly fed the senior hold-outs some kibble on the side?

FLUTD cat.
IBD cat.
17 year old cat with a different auto-immune disease.
See, a good quality wet food would very likely help all 3 of these kitties. And would save you money in vet bills over the long-haul. 
 

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Amy, if the holistic vet is anything like mine, she won't help you figure out what kibble to feed. She scared me so much about kibble, that's why I switched them all to wet food in timed meals. Lazlo, Tuxie and Flowerbelle didn't switch well. I fed them kibble in the bathroom on the side. I also believe that was why Lazlo developed ulcers that led to his lymphoma developing a tumor in his stomach. (Not saying it caused the lymphoma, but I believe the stress did cause the ulcer, and lymphoma goes for sites of chronic inflammation).

So I don't know what you do with all that info... just providing it.

:hugs: :hugs: :hugs: :hugs: :vibes: :vibes: :vibes: :vibes: :vibes:
 
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momofmany

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Amy, if the holistic vet is anything like mine, she won't help you figure out what kibble to feed. She scared me so much about kibble, that's why I switched them all to wet food in timed meals. Lazlo, Tuxie and Flowerbelle didn't switch well. I fed them kibble in the bathroom on the side. I also believe that was why Lazlo developed ulcers that led to his lymphoma developing a tumor in his stomach. (Not saying it caused the lymphoma, but I believe the stress did cause the ulcer, and lymphoma goes for sites of chronic inflammation).
So I don't know what you do with all that info... just providing it.
:hugs: :hugs: :hugs: :hugs: :vibes: :vibes: :vibes: :vibes: :vibes:
Are you saying that it was the kibble that may have caused the ulcer, or the stress associated with switching them to wet that caused the ulcer? The vet already warned me that chronic digestive inflamation can trigger cancer, so we have to get on top of this now.

I've gone thru a long journey of transitioning mine to as much wet food as they will eat, but I've always kept kibble around to avoid the stress of completely changing out their diets. I'm on the fence on this one. Would love to switch them all to wet food, but afraid the stress is going to harm my seniors, who have eaten kibble all of their lives.

Koko is eating more these last few days (wet food), and it is because of the steroids she is on. I really don't want to keep her on them long term - she absolutely fights us tooth and nail when we pill her, and it takes 2 of us to give them to her.

And to clarify about the holistic vet - this is one that was recommended by the pet health store. She gives them advice on which foods they should carry, and that does include kibble, wet and raw. She's holistic, but also educated on food in general.
 

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It's annual check up time in my household and this year, my poor baby Koko drew the short straw. She had been losing weight slowly over the last few years, but I wasn't prepared to hear that she had dropped down to 7 pounds. I hate when the change is so slow that you don't notice it outright. And I kick myself for attributing some of her behavior of late simply to the fact that she is now considered a senior.
Her blood work came out bad, which made us step back and talk through the changes that I had noticed in her. She has classic signs of IBD. No one in the house has diarrhea, but I have seen more vomit, and our dogs have a very bad habit of running to a cat when they hear them hacking, so I know that most messes (when I'm not home or sleeping) are cleaned up and never noticed (yeah, dogs are bad that way). She's also a lot less playful (which I attributed to her age), but she did refuse to play with Da Bird a few weeks back (should have been a huge red flag to me).
Of course an endoscopy or biopsy is needed to confirm it, but we're starting on medication immediately to see if things start to stabilize. She goes back to the vet in 3 weeks to retest her blood and see if things have changed.
If IBD, she'll join her brother Muddy in taking medication for the rest of her life. I gave her the first pill last night, the first time I've had to pill her ever, and she wasn't good about it. She'll have to learn that medication is not an option for her poor baby!
I start researching IBD today. Never had to go thru this particularly disease with a cat so am still a newbie with it. My greatest fear is that she will need a special diet, which is always harder to give when you live in a multi-cat household, and when another cat in the house is already on a special diet. She eats some of Muddy's special diet, and something in the back of my head is nagging at me that it may be contributing to the issue she is having.
I know, deep breath time.
First off I am really sorry about this.  I saw a thread recently on IBD and don't know if you are aware of it or not.  Maybe you have already read it.  Since I have nothing to offer but moral support at least I can repost the the link.  Hope you get this under control soon.  The thread is here: http://www.thecatsite.com/t/241712/ibd-cat-success  


 

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Are you saying that it was the kibble that may have caused the ulcer, or the stress associated with switching them to wet that caused the ulcer? The vet already warned me that chronic digestive inflamation can trigger cancer, so we have to get on top of this now.

I've gone thru a long journey of transitioning mine to as much wet food as they will eat, but I've always kept kibble around to avoid the stress of completely changing out their diets. I'm on the fence on this one. Would love to switch them all to wet food, but afraid the stress is going to harm my seniors, who have eaten kibble all of their lives.

Koko is eating more these last few days (wet food), and it is because of the steroids she is on. I really don't want to keep her on them long term - she absolutely fights us tooth and nail when we pill her, and it takes 2 of us to give them to her.

And to clarify about the holistic vet - this is one that was recommended by the pet health store. She gives them advice on which foods they should carry, and that does include kibble, wet and raw. She's holistic, but also educated on food in general.
Excellent about the holistic vet! Sounds like the perfect person to consult with about Koko. :nod: :cross:

I have no idea what caused the cancer. Most likely was our smoking. :bawling: I believe the stress of the switch to timed meals caused the ulcer(s). :nod: Lazlo was NOT a happy camper and was throwing up a lot. I thought it was due to hairballs (with which he's always had an issue). ...and that he would bring up a big one occasionally reinforced that. But now I'm pretty sure it was his stomach over-producing acid. He was used to eating many, many small meals a day via free-feeding. I did take them to four meals, not 2 or 3. But my point is that your concern about the stress of switching off of free-feeding, especially for older kitties, is a real concern and needs to be factored into any decision, as you already suggest/know. :hugs:

Ultimately, we had no choice but to move to timed meals, because Billy and Chumley did NOT self-regulate. They were becoming VERY overweight. Billy still is (and I really don't know how - it's like he gains weight from breathing air. :rolleyes: ). If you can devote pretty much all your time to feeding your cats, I think switching to timed meals from free-feeding can be done. Since I work from home, if I had it to do over again, I'd give them small meals every 1.5 hours during the day, and pepcid ac at night to the four kitties that had the most difficulty with the switch. Then I'd slowly bring the number of meals during the day down to something manageable. But it's a big commitment, and not practical or even possible for most people.
 
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brandy rowe

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Have you tried Greenies pill pockets? http://www.petco.com/product/113496...k & Pea Pill Pockets Tablet Dog Treats-113496

My Mario is on pred also.  She doesn't like to be pilled but has gotten used to it and she doesn't struggle as much.  She will, however, gobble up the pill pockets.  I usually break them in half because they're big and soft.  You can squish them around the pill.  They can't really chew it because it's soft and sticky so Mario just swallows it whole.
 
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momofmany

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I tried to give Koko a pill pocket without a pill in it to see if she liked it and she ignored it. So pill pockets won't work.

But I did get an appointment at the holistic vet for Wednesday morning. The person who took my call was fantastic, so let's hope that the vet is as good as his staff. I've got a good feeling about this.
 
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brandy rowe

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You could try pilling her with the pill pocket - it's bigger so you can grip it easier.  Also I've noticed that when it gets saliva on it, it gets kind of slippery - so kitty can swallow them easier.  I had to pill Mario with them for about a week before she started eating them on her own.

Good luck with the vet!!
 
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momofmany

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I went through all of Koko's medical records today to see if the start of her weight loss coincided with when we switched Muddy over to prescription food. They didn't line up - she started losing about the time I started experimenting with food, which was prior to Muddy getting FLUTD. The irony is that I got the cats off of Science Diet dry to other brands (Wellness, Fromm, etc) for about a year before Muddy's condition became so chronic that I switched them back to Science Diet prescription.

Koko is begging me for raw meat - first a chicken liver, then some steak, then some pork. She gobbled down the chicken liver like it was the best meal in the world. It makes me wonder if she's listening to her body craving something that she needs. I'm giving in to her for now, knowing it isn't entirely balanced and she's still eating mostly cat food. I can't wait for my appointment with the vet tomorrow (11AM).

No vomiting in the last few days. She's getting better about taking the pills - she's resigned herself that she's going to get them regardless of how she feels about it.
 
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