Diarrhea won't subside for Opie, help please  

Hi all,

I've not posted here in years, but I've been reading and recently switched 3 of my 6 kitties to raw (the three old ladies are still holdouts, but we're working on it.) 

I'm following the recipe from catnutrition.org. I've had good success with acceptance for 3 of the 6. However, 2 of those cats we'd adopted from a shelter January 7, 2012. One (Mini Purrl) is doing lovely. Opie, male, about 2.5 years old and about 8.4 lbs is the one who perplexes us.

When they first came here, they had explosive diarrhea. Took them for a check up, vet gave us Metronidazole Benz. for both. Mini did fine after that but Opie still exhibited runny stool, not explosive. I did see a change from tinged with bright blood and mucousy and that seems to have stopped. 

I chalked this up to a switch in diets from shelter to here. Right after they got here, I pulled up all kibble, and went to wet 2x a day for all. He still had non-formed stool. 

2.5 weeks ago, we started the transition to raw. Opie loves it and got into eating chunks and a wing tip. About a week and a half later, he decided he didn't like chunks. I let him go for a couple days, then checked his mouth. He did have red along his gums. (I have a stomatitis cat and know about that) I thought maybe that was why he wasn't interested in chewing. But throughout this entire time, he has not had any solid stool. His stools are gloppy orangish puddles. This concerns me. 

Took him to the vet this AM. Of course he wants Opie on RC Feline GI Fiber diet. (Fecal for parasites again today, like first visit in Jan. both neg.)

Our vet isn't a raw proponent - didn't really know that *sigh* I may have to call every flippin' vet in the area, closest holistic is 1.5 hours away, and I've a call in to her. I don't mind taking him to get him on the right track.

So, vet looked at mouth, saw the redness, noted it, but didn't see any other issues with mouth (lesions, abcesses, etc.) Said "maybe going stomatitis direction. But perhaps if we get the rear end sorted, the front will follow along." 

My thing I didn't think to ask, if he has a sore mouth, how can he eat kibble?

Did tell vet he has an okay appetite and comes for meal times. Trying to make sure he eats 4 oz or better, some days yes, and some no, but just ground and no interest in chunks. 

He's not lost any weight and I attribute this to the fact that he's eating raw. I do think he's not as busy as he should be and I feel he needs to get another pound on him. He's too thin and hip bones too prominent.

So, what have I overlooked? How can I help Opie since he can't get his s**t together? *L*

Thanks for the reply, Carolina.

When my stomatitis kitty had a sore mouth, he could only eat wet and after surgery, too. When he healed he had no trouble eating dry. Oddly enough, he's the other raw lover now - ground for now as he passes up the chunks. He's an old guy, too and doing very well on it.

Back to Opie:

I asked the vet if I should give him some probiotics and he said, "No, try the dry food first." And then said, if the dry doesn't work, he can get more "aggressive" with treatment. 

So, no, Opie isn't getting any probiotics or slippery elm or anything. I did try a bit of pumpkin last weekend - about 1 teaspoon twice in one day and another tsp the next morning mixed with his food. (I read pumpkin can work for both constipation and runs) I don't think he had loose stool for that day, but I never could catch him at the box and I didn't see evidence of loose stool. But I easily could have missed it, too, if it was a small amount. He's a good at burying. *L*

Last night in the span of an hour and half, roughly every 30 minutes, he ran to the box and deposited a quarter-sized glop, orangey, highly stinky. This happened about 5 hours post dinner. He eats dinner about 5 and this episode started about 10 pm. 

I serve him 2 oz or a tad more twice a day. He usually leaves just a lick on his plate, but occasionally in the evenings, will only eat about half. If there are chunks, he leaves those now. He used to eat them with gusto. 

His 3 ground recipes in rotation are: 

turkey with chicken liver

a turkey, beef, chicken mix

a chicken only

We couldn't get the raw heart, so we use 14 oz of other muscle meat and add in the taurine. 

OMG! I just noticed, she said psyllium is optional. But her addendum at the bottom says new cats may need it. I wonder if that would do it for him?

I think I'm gonna run out and get some psyllium for his bowl tonight.

This is the exact recipe from catnutrition.org:

Sugarcatmom, thanks so much. I wondered the same thing. I am definitely thinking about the slippery elm and probiotics. 

If I want to add some psyllium, how much for his feedings? The other two don't need it. 

Her recipe says: 

optional: 4 tsp. psyllium husk powder

But that's for the whole batch. Does anyone have recommendations for that?

Wow, thanks so much, Carolina! I will order both. He did mention that Opie may be an IBD kitty. But we've had no weight loss or vomiting, just loose stool. He's still inquisitive, just not as active as I think he should be.

But, in the meantime, I'll hit up the local natural pet store tonight and see what they have for a probiotic. And I'll pick up some psyllium. I suppose just a pinch will suffice, that's what the general consensus around the web seems to be with my cursory search. 

Okay, so can I give him the probiotics and psyllium together in his dinner tonight?

In the vet's defense, he wasn't saying "be more aggressive" by using probiotics, but he did say he wanted me to try the food first. *sigh* I'd rather not use that food. 

I found a vet who may be better for raw cats, but she's only part time. I couldn't get an appointment until next Monday. 

I'm betting I can't find the Vetasyl locally. So I'll order these things you recommended. I would like to get something in his food tonight though, so I may have to use what I can find locally.

Thanks so much!

How did you find a vet who is onboard for raw?

I've had vets like that. Sure miss them now.

We're on our second one here. Only lived here two years. And I'm thinking of posting on Craigslist so I don't have to call all the listings in the phone book. Seriously.

Thanks so much for your help, Carolina.

So, I'm off to get goodies for the Ope. Can I do probiotics and psyllium in one feeding or is that overkill or? 

FAbulous! I'll get what I can tonight, even if it's not exact in strength and make my amazon order tonight when I get home. 

Thanks again Carolina!

I got some probiotics at the natural pet store. It's not as potent as the Proviable D-C, but at least he got a dose tonight along with some nice psyllium from the health food place and I can use these till my Amazon order comes in. 

I also got the Diagel, 2 of them. 

I asked about raw food  friendly vets at the natural pet store. The only 2 they know are the two I found. Opie has an appointment with the local one that a lady at the pet store uses. Only problem is, she's a part time vet, and our appointment isn't until next Monday. 

I still think there should be some local vet that's in the closet about raw feeding and I just haven't found him/her yet.

Carolina, I'll post a progress report tomorrow. I really appreciate your help. Thank you so much.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carolina 


Good deal! If your psyllium is 100% pure, and your kitty eats it, no need to get the one from Amazon.... same thing.... jut a little malty taste that kitties like it (a lot of times they will refuse psyllium/metamucil) Just make sure it is pure and to put the equivalent to 250mg per meal in it - if memory doesn't fail me, it is 1/4 tsp.... you have to double check and calculate to see if that is correct - don't want to put too much in there!
Make sure to add a bit of water in the food too
And yeah.... Proviable-DC is the best! I know the price is a bit sour, but there is 80 in the package, so it is totally worth it!
And Very glad you got Diagel
Glad to help - keep us posted!

It is pure psyllium nothing but that and a gel cap, but I ordered the other from Amazon anyway because of the malt. They will get used one way or another, I'm sure. 

The one I got tonight is 625 mg per capsule. I put a bit less than half on his food and pitched the other half. I'll start with a new one tomorrow and just leave a bit out. 

I did remember to add some water, too.

He didn't eat his whole dinner  - about 3/4 of it, but that seems to be the norm for evening lately. I'll be curious to see how things go.

By they way, how long should it take to see some results? His next feeding is in the morning and I'll be dosing him with both then.
 

Quote:

Originally Posted by LDG 

FYI, the probiotics I give my kitties are from a health food store. I buy an acidophilus + Bifidus combo for people. 10 Billion active cultures. My kitty that HAD chronic diarrhea gets an entire capsule sprinkled on his food TWICE a day!!!! It really helped move his diarrhea from out of control to soft stools. The rest get 1/2 capsule sprinkled on their food 2x a day. I take one once a day.
Did you have blood work done? The most important things, of course, are to rule out any parasite or organ dysfunction. But once those are ruled out, you really have no choice but to focus on diet (which is what you're doing!).
We took our Chum (the one that had chronic diarrhea) to a holistic vet. I'll skip the diagnosis , but she had us put him on slippery elm - 1/4 teaspoon twice a day with 1/4 teaspoon aloe vera juice (both of which we procure at the same health food store we get the probiotic). I buy George's aloe vera juice - not organic, but no taste AT ALL. I plop the 1/4 teaspoon of slippery elm next to his food, pour the 1/4 teaspoon of aloe vera juice on it, and add a little water - and let it "gel" up. Then I mix it up with his food. He eats it, but slippery elm DOES have a taste to it, and not all kitties will eat it. It is a safe fiber AS WELL AS a lubricant. Psyllium basically just adds bulk - but doesn't protect the colon wall lining. Slippery elm does that, but doesn't provide the same bulk.
Just more thoughts for you.

I looked at a probiotic from a health food store, but had already gotten the one at the natural pet store. In a couple days the good one will be here. I'm sure what I'm using now is better than the nothing he got before. *L* We'll use it up between our 6 cats especially since I am still trying to convince 3 holdouts to eat raw. 

I did read about slippery elm on another site and forgot to pick that up tonight when I was out. I'm gonna hold off on that for now and see how we do with the probiotics and psyllium. I didn't know about the aloe vera though. Husband said on the way to the store that aloe vera is often used with psyllium and asked if we needed that, too. I didn't know about it then, so we didn't get either, actually. I certainly appreciate the help! I will get slippery elm to try if Opie doesn't seem to be improving.

Parasites are ruled out. I did ask about bloodwork today, and the vet didn't seem to think it necessary yet. He just wanted Opie to start that RC diet. *sigh*

Thanks so much for the good additional info, LDG.

I'm just jealous that holistic vets seem to be available anywhere but here! 

I just have another question about the probiotics and psyllium. How long should I continue them? 

It seems to me that some of you do the probiotics all the time. But I don't have a "definite" IBD diagnosis on Opie, just a suspected one right now.

Thank you, ladies. I will just see what happens and monitor things. As for the probiotic I got tonight, I think it has digestive enzymes in it. It's in the other room, and I'm getting ready to sign off, so will check it later. 

I do probiotics almost every day, too, but I get mine in Cascade Fresh yogurt. :)

I will update this thread to let you  know how it's going or if I have more questions. 

No real noticeable effects yet with the psyllium and probiotics. He hasn't eaten a complete meal yet, either. Tomorrow I am going to put his meds in less food and feed that first. Then I can add more food when he gets done with the first serving. That way I know he is getting the benefit of a complete dose. 

Carmina, thanks for the tips. 

I have wondered about being sensitive to chicken in the last couple days. I've not worked on that yet. I am thinking of doing an all pork mix this weekend. I have some pork liver so it would be an all pork mix with nothing else. 

I did try some pumpkin, about a half tsp 3x. And for the life of me, I can't remember if he improved or not. 

This morning I did the small breakfast - about 1 oz - with probiotics and psyllium. He ate it all then I gave him a bit more food and he ate almost all of that. So I know he got a complete dose of both. I also noticed only one small penny-sized gloopy in the litter box when I cleaned them this morning. So that is a vast improvement. 

I am scaling down the size of his meals and feeding more frequently. So today he will get about an ounce for lunch - no probiotic or psyllium. Then a dinner with probiotic and psyllium, then a before bed snack with no probiotic or psyllium. I'll see how that goes. Hopefully by the end of the day, he'll get about 4oz of food in him and 2 good doses of probiotics and psyllium. 

Last night he slept with us, and that was a pleasure to see. 

I got a baby scale and weighed him today. Throughout all this, he's not lost any weight, and in fact has gained a few ounces. 

I started today with keeping records of weight and food intake and such for all the kids. 

Oh, one other good thing! He has been avoiding the chunks of meat for the last while even if I mushed them (making me wonder about a mouth problem). But this morning there was a chunk of chix breast in his food and I mushed it up pretty good so it wasn't so lumpy or big. He worked it like he did when first being switched to raw and ate it! This is very good!