Photography enthusiasts / pros question

Hypothetical:

Assume that the new Nikon D4 and Nikon D800 were $1 each.  No price difference.  Assume that lenses are also ridiculously cheap, maybe 50 cents each for the best you can buy.  Assume for whatever reason you can also only purchase 1 or the other.  Between the D4 and the D800, given these conditions, which would you buy?

speaking from no personal experience as I shoot Canon: Two great sites I got some of the info from.

http://nikonites.com/d800/4766-d800-vs-d4.html

http://snapsort.com/compare/Nikon-D4-vs-Nikon-D800

The big thing is what are you going to be shooting? Are you just wanting a nice SLR to get family and pet pics or do you plan on using it for sports, wildlife, etc with the hopes of selling or going pro?

Important points:

D4 can shoot 10-11 frames per second. D800 can shoot 4. So basically if you hold the shutter button down for 1 second you will end up with a burst of 10 pics from the d4 vs 4 from the d800. 

D4 does not have a built in flash d800 does. The flashes tend to be crap though and most will never use it without a diffuser. 

d4 does have a longer battery life, but with the d800 you can solve that fairly easy with battery grips.

d4 is larger and weighs more than the d800.

They are both full frame sensor, can HD shoot video, have live view mode, and have hd output.

Personally: I'd say unless you already an established sports photographer, Id go d800. Its going to cost you less and be a little more beginner friendly but still do more than enough for you to have fun with it.

Picture quality is more about the glass than the camera!

Invest in glass. It will hold its value vs a camera and then when or if you do upgrade the camera you will still have nice glass.

Again lenses you need will greatly depend on what you are shooting. I have 3 lenses in my bag right now, about to get a 4th. I have the kit lens that came with the camera, a 75-300 zoom that I use for all of my autocross shots, and a nifty fifty 50mm 1.8. 

The 50mm 1.8 is a great portrait lens and is a great starter lens because it is under $100. You can spend more and get the 1.4 but that is up to you.

18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 DX is another great basic lens that will cover most day to day shooting.

A great option is to get on cameralensrentals.com and rent the lenses and camera bodies you are thinking about for a few days. Its a great way to test it out and see in person which you prefer. You may find you need more zoon lenses instead of prime lenses or maybe the other way around! 

However, dont think that you need to drop a huge amount on a camera and lens combo! I shoot on a Canon Rebel XT that is at least 5 years old. It is my baby, and has served me well. I am currently saving up for 2 things though, a MarkII camera (canon's pro series) and a 100-400L lens (super telephoto, great for track events. but stupid expensive.) 

Example pics: I do all sorts of autocross and car pics. My business name is Pointer Cone Photography and you can check out my smugmug at jordidunn.smugmug.com

Taken with the XT with my old 75-300 the before it died (this was after it started giving me trouble):



Porsche mod car



Coned...



The cops came out to play with us at a charity event.

So not bad for a cheap lens and an "out of date" camera. But here is what happens when you put pro-glass on the end of it. These were taken with a 100-400mm L lens It was great! I love that lens but the cost is an issue.



Very crappy rainy day.

capt_jordi said:

speaking from no personal experience as I shoot Canon: Two great sites I got some of the info from.

http://nikonites.com/d800/4766-d800-vs-d4.html

http://snapsort.com/compare/Nikon-D4-vs-Nikon-D800

The big thing is what are you going to be shooting? Are you just wanting a nice SLR to get family and pet pics or do you plan on using it for sports, wildlife, etc with the hopes of selling or going pro?

Important points:

D4 can shoot 10-11 frames per second. D800 can shoot 4. So basically if you hold the shutter button down for 1 second you will end up with a burst of 10 pics from the d4 vs 4 from the d800. 

D4 does not have a built in flash d800 does. The flashes tend to be crap though and most will never use it without a diffuser. 

d4 does have a longer battery life, but with the d800 you can solve that fairly easy with battery grips.

d4 is larger and weighs more than the d800.

They are both full frame sensor, can HD shoot video, have live view mode, and have hd output.

Personally: I'd say unless you already an established sports photographer, Id go d800. Its going to cost you less and be a little more beginner friendly but still do more than enough for you to have fun with it.

Picture quality is more about the glass than the camera!

Invest in glass. It will hold its value vs a camera and then when or if you do upgrade the camera you will still have nice glass.

Again lenses you need will greatly depend on what you are shooting. I have 3 lenses in my bag right now, about to get a 4th. I have the kit lens that came with the camera, a 75-300 zoom that I use for all of my autocross shots, and a nifty fifty 50mm 1.8. 

The 50mm 1.8 is a great portrait lens and is a great starter lens because it is under $100. You can spend more and get the 1.4 but that is up to you.

18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 DX is another great basic lens that will cover most day to day shooting.

A great option is to get on cameralensrentals.com and rent the lenses and camera bodies you are thinking about for a few days. Its a great way to test it out and see in person which you prefer. You may find you need more zoon lenses instead of prime lenses or maybe the other way around! 

However, dont think that you need to drop a huge amount on a camera and lens combo! I shoot on a Canon Rebel XT that is at least 5 years old. It is my baby, and has served me well. I am currently saving up for 2 things though, a MarkII camera (canon's pro series) and a 100-400L lens (super telephoto, great for track events. but stupid expensive.) 

Click to expand...

I am aware of all of this.   As far as the intended purpose, I don't really take family pics.  I will use it for some pet pics, but otherwise the goal was to use it for wildlife, night photography, and general artistic photography (if that's even a phrase).  An FX format DSLR is a must for me though.  DX is a doomed format IMO (in the sense that it will soon be obsolete), and I just can't justify spending the money to buy a camera in DX format, and then DX optics.  I could buy a DX format camera, and put standard non-DX optics on it, but it doesn't work quite as well.

The lack of a built in flash on the D4 doesn't bother me.  I'm never going to use the built in flash.  It's either not bright enough usually, or it causes problems (red eye, pet eye, washout, etc.)

So here's really what I was getting at with my question:

I really want the larger pixels on the D4 sensor, the super high ISO capabilities, and the speed.

On the D800 though, I like the super high resolution.  I worry though that the resolution will mean poor low light performance.  I also worry that the high resolution will mean that glass that was previously considered high-quality, will not be as high quality on the D800.  The resolution to me just means the ability to print much larger.

The D4 really has everything that I want - with the exception of the resolution.   It's crazy expensive - I know.  I would have to wait for the price to come down a bit.

The D800 has me worried that at night, to get the shot I want, I'll have to have a longer exposure, and get some blur from moving objects as a result.

I guess we'll see when it starts shipping how people feel about it, but neither camera to me is a 100% winner, making this a really difficult choice.

Canon is great.  I have one right now - but not a DSLR.  For years I used my father's DSLR, but now that I live across the country, that's not an option.  I've been wanting a DSLR for some time, but when I was in the market for one is when the rumors about the D800 being in development started circulating, so I held off and got a Canon S95, which for a P&S, is really quite nice as it allows me manual control of everything, has a decent lens for a P&S, and has a sensor with larger pixels than its competitors (at the time I bought it).  For me though, I am intent on finally getting a DSLR of my own well before the end of this year.

No matter how I go though, it's going to be pricey because I'm intent on FX format.  So I have to make the right choice because I'm sure that I won't be able to afford another camera for quite a long time after I purchase this one.

Are you going to order it online or from an actual store that you can walk into? If it's an actual store, see what their return policy is. At most of the stores around here, you can buy it, try it out and if you don't like it or it's just not what you were looking for, you can exchange it for the other model that you were considering. 

I have 2 DSLRS (Canon 20D, Canon 50D) and some regular Canon SLR cameras. I can switch out lenses from my SLR to my DSLRS with no problems and the quality is still there. If I remember correctly, my 70-300mm lens is not a digital lens but actually takes better pictures than the same lens that's digital (my Mom has that one). Your money is always going to be in the lenses you buy and not the body itself. There are lenses for early SLR cameras that will still cost you a pretty penny to purchase used, the only reason that they have dropped a bit is because they are not immediately compatible with DSLRS (you can buy converters for some, but it will change the quality a bit at times). 

How big exactly do you think you will be blowing your pictures up? When I was in college we frequently had to make prints 24" and larger. At the time, we were all using 6-8 megapixel cameras and never had a problem. I sell cameras at work, mind you they are all point and shoots, but I get a lot of people that come in that are overly eager to get the highest MP they can when all it's going to do is make their file size huge. Consider what sizes you're going to be making prints AND what glass you're going to have and go from there. You can have a high MP camera but with not so great glass, you may notice softness when you blow them up to large sizes (larger than 8x10). 

May I ask why you're going with Nikon instead of Canon? I love the Canon 7D and will probably be purchasing it soon, my 50D has been giving me troubles and may be written off as a lemon under the warranty. I mention it because it's been out for awhile now, the price has dropped a bit, I've seen some great low light/high ISO pictures out of it at the launch party, and have seen quite a few professional videos that were shot with it. 

I haven't looked into the Nikon's quality when shooting with a high ISO because I don't buy Nikon, but keep in mind that the quality can degrade when you shoot with a high ISO - the same as with film. Digital has really compensated for it, but I still find when I see pictures that were taken with high ISO at night, you can see "grain" if you look closely on large sized prints. My preference is to shoot with a low ISO and longer exposure. I find it looks better and can give you some really neat effects (star trails, etc). I do use high ISO when shooting bands most of the time, but you can see the difference in quality IMO. 

It's going to depend on the price locally and the price online.

One thing I often do - and kind of feel bad about - is that I shop locally to see, feel, try - and then order online for price.

IF I can get the local shop to match the prices I see online, I will buy locally.  If not, I may shop online.  More importantly though, I'll have to ask the local shop what their policy is on returns.

Lately, I've been ordering studio lighting and accessories from Adorama, and have been happy with them, so I might use them - but I've also bought some stuff from my local shop (West Photo in the Twin Cities).  There is also a small chain called National Camera and Video Exchange or something which I haven't really looked at yet.

This is still purely academic.  I won't be able to afford either camera for a little bit, and wouldn't want to purchase them until the price drops after the initial hype wears off.