How do I stop them fighting?

Think I mentioned in my last post that I'd had to take Paddy to the vet last week for a scratch/ scab on her nose. The vet said what I'd suspected - 'she's been fighting and it'll clear up' - and then charged me a neat little sum of money for the peace of mind.

Anyway, it's very evident that the fighting between Paddy and Little Cow - my two little girls - is getting progressively worse. I've heard lots of caterwauling recently and, this lunchtime, I was with Paddy outside when she must have seen LC in the lean-to and not only chased after her but even ran into one of LC's hiding barns. There ensued utter pandemonium; the noises emanating from the barn were real claws out stuff. I opened the door, got a bucket of water ready and saw, behind all the bric-a-brac my neighbour stores in there, Paddy pawing at one of the gaps in the far corner. Seems that - thankfully - the diminutive one (Cow) had managed to scrabble to safety in one of the other barns.

It's very frustrating and my fear is that it'll get expensive on the vet bills; a scratch now is ok, but abcesses, bites and infections could all happen.

LC is pretty clearly a pariah cat and her fearful, feral nature means that Paddy sees her as an interloper rather than acknowledging Cow as 'one of the family'. It was bad enough with Rudi and LC but, in his defence, he was actually here (albeit as a stray) before LC ever turned up. And, of course, Rudi and Paddy get along ok because they were properly introduced as both are friendly.

I'm not sure I'll ever stop them fighting - it could also be a female thing - but I'd like to run an idea by you all. Feel free to shoot me down in flames! I have a big dog crate around the farm that I don't use. Is there any sense in putting Paddy into this crate for a couple of days with some food, water and bedding and putting the crate in one of Cow's hidey barns? It might be a little late for introductions and it might seem a little hard on my friendly girl, Paddy, but I'd appreciate thoughts. I certainly won't do it till the weather is milder. To my mind it's Paddy who has to change, not LC.

Other options are limited. I can't bring Paddy in because of her pee problem and if the above solution idea is unfair on Paddy, I'd have thought that capturing the 4 year-old uberferal that is LC and bringing her inside would be utterly traumatic for her to the point that she'll not cope. (As an aside, I was talking about LC to a farmer friend of mine who got a couple of ferals from the same shelter at a similar time. His have all tamed up a little - he reckoned he'd taken on a dozen or so ferals over the years and when I told him that mine has a 20ft exclusion zone after nearly 18 months with me, he reckoned I'd got the most feral cat ever as his never accept petting but do, over time, stop running away from you)

I guess the 'let them get on with it' is the only other option I can think of short of putting one of them up for adoption (which would be heart-breaking): but, as the man who foots the vet bills and feeds and cares for his motley but usually loveable crew, I'd really like to find a solution that works for everyone. I wish Feliway plug-ins would work outside!

thanks for the thoughtful and informative reply.

Oh yes, Paddy is very much Queen Bee around here!

I suspect I'm just going to have to let them work out their differences and be on hand if needed.

R & P are basically restricting LC to within the 3 little barns: two they can access, 1 they can't. For a while now I've been putting Cow's wet food in this 'special' barn safe in the knowledge that she's the only kitty who is small enough to get to it! Good girl that she is, she always wolfs it down, although I am worried that she may have started using one corner of the barn to do her business, as it seems to be getting quite whiffy.

The big bowl of dry food is more communally placed so that all can access and I'd like it to stay like that - it's but 10 feet away from Cow's safe barn anyway. Moreover, it does mean she has to come out just a little bit and show the world what a fine little lady she is. Indeed, just this morning I saw her come into the lean-to, check for P&R and get some kibble. And, joyfully, I then saw her wandering around the lean-to....WITH HER TAIL IN THE AIR!! Not foofed in any way, either, just a happy bolt upright cat tail. I've never seen this from her before, hence the capitals. Way to go, Little Cow!

Hi All - thanks for the feedback. Definite need for changes: I left for a meeting last night at 5:30 and R&P were in and around the courtyard happily playing (P) and happily taking it easy (R).

I get back 3 hours later and the Rudi cat shows up for a bit of supper with one eye pretty much closed - pretty sure he got a claw in there. He's had a few eye wounds over the year, but this is by far the worst. Whether its from play with Paddy, a fight with LC or a run-in with a stray I can't say - but a vets visit beckons. And then he's coming in: I have enough of this nonsense between them and have told the rest of the household to like it or lump it! He'll adjust and we'll adjust: he knows we love him and he's going to have a nice upstairs room all to himself. More on this next week, assuming I can catch him to get him to the vet (he's a lovely lad, but doesn't like being picked up/ shoved in carrier).

On the feeding front, here's the before (i.e. up until this morning) and the after (i.e. started today)

BEFORE:

LC gets some wet food put in her barn only she can get to (I think). Either way, it gets eaten in 90 minutes tops

Rudi and Paddy get wet food by the back door/ in the utility room as and when they show up miaowing for it or when I see them and call them in. Can't really leave it out: it would freeze in this weather

The dry food bowl and water bowl are kept in the lean-to and are community

AFTER:

No change on the wet front

But have started putting enough dry and water for LC in her barn. I suspect this will make her more elusive than ever, but if it keeps the peace....

I've also decided to move all R&P's dry and water for the time being to up nearer the house in one of the Happy Hutches. So no more lean-to food for any of them. Even when Rudi comes inside.

fingers crossed.

Hi All - about time I posted an update. It's a real mixed bag...

THE BEST NEWS - Rudi's eye/ abscess cleared up remarkably quickly and he has returned to his handsome self. Moreover, he has decided to 'take over' the workshop that Paddy originally found at the back of the farm. I'm thrilled with this as it's the next best thing to him being indoors. As with all the old barns and outbuildings around the farm, it is full of the landlords old clutter....in this instance, some of his Mum's old things. This includes a couple of old mattresses which Rudi appears to have realised are very comfortable. I'll get a pic and post ot at some point. It's also the most weatherproof of all the outbuildings

OTHER GOOD NEWS - no evidence of any fighting in the past 12 days or so. So on that front the entirely separate feeding regime is working, but ....

NOT GOOD NEWS - none of us has seen LC since the feeding regime kicked in 12 days ago. She's clearly around as the food in her barn (that only she can get into) is disappearing. Using the night vision, I've also gone looking for her at night, but no sign. As I've written on here many times before, she is a very shy girl by nature. However, I was used to seeing her out and about on the farm on a regular basis. It's almost as if, by putting her food in her barn, I'm telling her I don't want her to come out either. To be frank, I'm saddened and quite concerned: she's essentially a prisoner in a little barn on a 35 acre farm. From a cold, business-headed perspective, this isn't good for the farm as she's the best rodent patrol (Paddy does mice: LC takes out rats, rabbits and, best of all, moles too!) Moreover, I can't imagine she's happy herself. This time last year she was here, there and everywhere on the farm; she had the odd run in with Rudi, but they learned to give one another room and whilst his increasing friendliness made her withdraw more, she was still a very active little lady. There was nothing more heart-warming than seeing her scampering round the farm, keeping one eye out for the big humans and the other for a little bit of prey. But since Paddy has turned up LC's appearanceas have become increasing fleeting. To cap it all - and what prompted this update - I am concerned about her health and not just because I can't see her out and about (even from 20-30ft away!!) but also because when I went to put her food bowl in her hut this morning I noticed that she had basically 'thrown up' all her wet food by the side of the food bowl. I've also recently noticed that she's becoming 'messy' with her kibble - little bits not in the bowl - and I wonder if she has a problem with her teeth potentially as a result of a run-in or two.

So, action needs to be taken. I've just ordered a cat trap and will hopefully catch LC in the next week or so. She is very trap-savvy (when I caught Rudi this time last year, I couldn't catch her) and so this may take time but it will happen. I'll get her used to eating out of the trap for a few days, I guess, before I actually set it.

Then it's off to the vets she goes. Obviously a lot depends on what he says, but I feel as if there are 3 courses of action open to me, depending on what the vet says:

1) continue as we are

2) put both Paddy and LC up for adoption but explain that I only want one to go...so whichever of the girls gets the first good home offer (and I will check it out personally) will be adopted while the other stays. 

3) the really long shot ... bring LC inside. Am not sure of the feasibility of this as she's a 4 year-old feral, but if the vet says she needs to be inside for health issues then it can be considered - where there's a will and all that.

I'm pretty sure that option 2 is the way to go but let's take it a step at a time and get LC caught and seen by a vet first.

Wish me well.

forgot to add....when Rudi visited the vet, they advised to NOT bring him in permanently just now but instead...

* look to bring him in to the utility room if/ when the weather turns. In this way, he can slowly realise that he has the best of both worlds and the move can become gradual ... basically she felt that a permanent indoor lifestyle would not suit him at the moment particularly as spring/ summer is coming. She felt that the road I'd started taking this winter - where I'd locked him in a couple of times - was ideal.

* over Spring and Summer, try to leave the back door open on mild days and let him come in and explore the house like he used to do last summer ... I explained the difficulty of doing this with Paddy around (there's a theme emerging here, isn't there?)

Basically, let him do it on his terms and his time with a view to increasing the frequency next autumn. His health was generally deemed to be good so they felt he'd thrive this spring/ summer.

As ever, feralvr, thanks for the considered response.

You've seen the elephant (well, cat...but you know what I mean) in the room: Paddy. I love all my cats in different ways but there's no point skirting around the issue that, since Paddy's been here, the dynamic has been turned on its head and probably not in a good way.

She has clearly always been a confident and friendly - my 8 year old Goddaughter came over last week and spent ages playing with her whilst Rudi (not a fan of kids unless he's met them lots of times) and LC (a misanthrope ;-)) hid in the barns. She's an ideal much-loved family pet, basically, but one with a urine leakage problem that precludes indoor life. However, her six months to date on the farm have proven that she is very adaptable and I don't think it will be hard at all to place her. It's a bit like she's now had training from us for outdoor life. I think she's perfect for a stables: people coming along all the time, nice warm barns, loads of mice and fields to play in - she'd become their little darling, I reckon. I would personally love it if I could place her somewhere close by so that I could pop along every now and then, but I know that may be tricky. However, given that everywhere on this small island is fairly close by (England is about half the size of Texas, I believe, albeit with 50m people squished in) you never know.

But there's no hurry. First off I'm catching Cow (trap should be here on Friday) and getting her seen by the vet. Then I'll decide on what to do. But I think the Paddy adoption to a lovely farm or stables will be the way to go.  Obviously the main benefit will be being able to feed LC in the lean-to again, as whilst Rudi doesn't like her, his hatred isn't anywhere near as fierce as Paddy's. I've seen him chase after her a few times but more often I've seen him look at her in the lean-to, think about an assault and then have a change of heart ('oooh, there's that bloody little b/w cat ... better shoo her off ... wait a minute, my human friends are petting me and I've got a big bowl of chicken....oh well, leave her be for now....rub my belly, Dad'). Moreover, given his fondness for sleeping (unlike Paddy, who is perpetual motion) LC can hopefully get back to having her outdoor time. The other benefit will be that I can leave the doors open again and let the big guy explore at his peace like he did last summer - he'd often spend 30-40 minutes at a time in the kitchen, dining room or study having a belly rub, a groom or an explore and if that means he becomes more comfortable again in the house (and hence prepared for a winter inside), then all is good.

More soon, bests for now

p.s. I did seeCow not long after the postings on Monday....was working from home, saw her basically transfer herself between barns via the lean-to. She must have been in sight for, ooooh, all of 10 seconds ;-)

I bring good news - got a really good sighting of LC about 30 mins ago. I was working next door but had to wander back to the house to pick something up. As I turned the corner, I saw her in the area between the lean-to and the courtyard. She immediately caught wind of me and scampered back into the lean-to/ her hiding barn, but she looked absoloutely fine. She's a real itty-bitty-kitty: I'm guessing 6lbs at most where Rudi is about 11 and Paddy, having joined us as a svelte 7.5 pounder, is somewhere around the 9lbs mark. She is quite a porker: I think she devours all the dry food I leave out for her and Rudi and so, as the warmer weather begins, I'm going to cut back on it dramatically.

LC also seems to be eating well again. Over the weekend we had roast chicken and, knowing how much she likes it, I pulled all the little bits of chicken off the carcass, refridgerated it and am giving her a few each day along with her dry and water. As I'd seen her, I thought I'd pop my head into her barn to say hello (and 'lovely to see you', of course) and noted she'd already devoured her chicken for today!

Don't think I've ever really explained 'her' barn set-up, so here goes. It's about 15ft deep by 20ft across was clearly basically once a stables - there are three clear stalls in there and the real giveaway is that it has stable doors! The bottom stable door has always had a whopping great big hole (rats, probably) that only she can squeeze into. Just inside the door, I've put a happy hutch/ cat box down and I tend to just open the top stable door and put her food on top of this hutch (talking to her all the time, of course). The barn itself is full of clutter - it would be virtually impossible for me to get more than a few feet inside the door without moving various and sundry bits of old farm machinery and furniture. Moreover, there's no electricity or lighting in there. As such, it's a wonderful hideaway for my timid little girl. She can also get out through the back, as there are a couple of slats missing - again, I don't think the other two can get in through these slats. Indeed, there was a time when I'd often see LC round the back of the barns and, more often than not (particularly if I was in the car rather than on foot), she'd sit near these slats and let me have a chat with her rather than actually dash back in. Once at some point around Christmas, Rudi and I were having a mammoth 'love-in' nearby and she sat and watched us from c. 20-30 feet away for a good 15 minutes, ready to dash back through her slat hole if needed - good old Rudi seemed to not care and he must have been able to see her.

So the news is a little more positive. As yet, the trap hasn't turned up. When it does, I plan to take the happy hutch out of the barn and put the trap in its stead, feeding LC as follows:

1) for a few days, alongside the trap

2) then, for a few days, in the trap (but not primed), probably pushing the food back a little further every day

3) and then actually set/ prime the trap

Slowly, slowly, catchee monkey as it were. So it might be 2 weeks yet till I get her seen. Here's hoping this is a good plan!

thanks guys....it's a lovely set-up for her for sure, but I want her out and about more and definitely not pooping in there (as she is clearly doing at the mo)!! 

This time last year, sightings like I had of her today were commonplace, not the exception.

It's almost exactly a year since we trapped Rudi (and gave him his sex change ;-)) On the day he was caught, I sat watching the baited trap all day while I worked at home. On that day she must've come into the courtyard on no less than 5-6 occasions...she was climbing up everything, playing with leaves .... you name it. Basically a big feral kitten.

And, of course, at this time last year she was bringing her Dad regular 'presents' ... moles were her particular favourite (and mine) - the damage they do is quite staggering!

So let's hope she has decided to show herself more often. That way I'll keep the roast chicken coming .....

Developments:

1) rather out of the blue, someone is very interested in taking Paddy. They are about 100 miles North of here (so not very far) and run a stables on 60+ acres. At the moment it sounds as if they are beset by mice problems. I'm doing a home check next week and, if it looks right (and it sounds great), then it's all systems go. I'm sure Paddy has no interest in this but it's only a few miles from Nottingham which, in my humble opinion, is England's nicest city ;-)

2) this means that the catching of LC becomes more urgent - I don't want to adopt out Paddy only to find that LC is very poorly (and I think she's ok, but better to be safe than sorry). The trap arrived this morning. I've had to put the slowly slowly catchee monkey approach on hold and so it's set up with tasty roast chicken and triggered to go in LC's barn. Free-feeding is now on hold all over the farm! I don't think it'll happen today: LC had already had her food before the trap arrived.

Fortunately the vet practice is open all weekend. Not sure that the vets who deal with ferals will be in, but let's hope so.

More soon.....

well would you believe it....less than 3 hours after trap set, she's in there.

As I approached the barn to check on her, I could hear her running around in the cage. She's terrified; no meows like Rudi, just frantic scrabbling.

Fortunately the barn is nice and dark (and safe, the others can't get in) and she's only got an hour to wait until the vet appointment.

More later

Thanks for the note.

For such an itty-bitty-kitty, Little Cow has a growl like Barry White. As I picked the cage up from the barn I heard a guttaral rumbling like the Walrus of Love had decided to drop in on a little farm in rural England....

Anyway, I'm back from the vet temporarily. Cow is still there.

What a bizarre conversation I had with the vet - not one I've seen before. I explained the situation to them in full: her pariah cat status, her virtual emprisonment in the back barn, the fighting, the potential rehoming of her bullying 'sister' and the general concerns about LC's well-being over the last few months. The vet basically tried to argue me out of doing anything - essentially did a 'cats will be cats' line on me and said that she looked fine and it might be better to come back once Paddy's re-homed! The vet's one sensible line was that, with LC needing to be sedated, a full health check isn't possible as certain things can only be done when the cat is alert. I said I understood that and, at worst, I would be happy if they sorted her for fleas, worms and the like. But the majority of the rest of her conversation was, frankly, disgraceful. Her best line was 'you say she isn't catching mice any more ... if you feed her, she shouldn't need to catch mice should she?' On the verge of snapping and saying 'well I'm so sorry for caring about my cat', I told her that she's been fed fabulously for 18 months and that I couldn't really care less about the mouseing: I simply want my little feral girl to have the run of the farm again and for me to know she's in good health. The rodents are a by-product of her happiness,

In a nutshell, what she was trying to say really was she didn't fancy doing it. Whilst Cow seemed quite calm in her cage, I think that dealing with a feral cat was the last thing she/ the vet needed on a Friday afternoon. And I empathise with that. But it's her job and, moreover,  Cow deserves to be looked after just as much as any other pet. To some extent I feel like I've neglected her by not only introducing Paddy to the farm, but also never taking her to the vet before in the c. 18 months I've had her.

Her final tactic of trying to put me off by telling me how much it was going to cost didn't work either. Peace of mind has no price.

So, as I left they told me they were going to sedate Cow and I'll get a call in a bit. I wouldn't be in the least bit surprised if - and this is the cynical Englishman in me - they leave her in her cage for 4 hours and then call me to pick her up with an 'it's all clear' message. But fingers crossed they will do their job properly and I'll get her back later on in tip-top condition. I suspect she'll be very happy to be back at her barn.

p.s. she has the most beautiful, delicate little whiskers. And I mean LC, not the vet...

thanks for the kind words.

Well, after Friday's shenanigans, we're back to normality. Haven't actually seen LC since we dropped her off back at her barn, but as the food is disappearing she clearly hasn't lost her appetite.

I suspect she's sitting in there, part cursing me for putting her through the trauma and part liking me for bringing her back!

I do sometimes wonder with Rudi whether he is trying to be friends with her or is trying to antagonise her. Twice in the last couple of days he's sat in the lean-to for a good 30-40 minutes watching the front entrance to her barn (the entrance that only she can squeeze through) from about 12-15 feet away. I'd like to think he's just being inquisitive since she's been back from the vets.

Anyway, I'm viewing Paddy's potential new home on Weds pm, will post more thereafter.