Pancreatitis, Hyperthyroid, possible cancer? vibes requested, please.

Caramelblond said:

We were prescribed Periactin for two days last week it didn't seem to do much.  But we only got two pills so maybe we weren't on it long enough.  Are there any other kinds?

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I prefer mirtazapine. It's both an appetite stimulant and works to control nausea, and you only have to administer it once every 3 days. Some cats may become very anxious and excitable while on it (called serotonin syndrome), but the remedy for that is to give cyproheptadine (Periactin). 

Just our experience, but Lazlo's appetite stimulant was mirtazipine. It made him a little nutty the first day, asking for food every 30 min or so, eating little amounts frequently. But it did not control his nausea, thus we used the Cerenia as well.

Question - I think I just caught this from your last post...... He was ok while on raw...... Then he went to your mom..... He wasn't give raw in there.... And from that point on, it seems to me, from the other posts, that his diet has changed to kibbles and canned - these issues have also started on that trip.

Next, I asked about how much he should be eating. She said about 200 cals. would be what he should be eating. I told her I had to syringe the high calorie food but she said that the Recovery does not have more calories than EVO which is what he prefers. He has been eating between 2-4 oz a day. He hates the Nutri Cal. He is not off food completely, just not eating a lot. That being said I have to remember that he is paralyzed and not active like he used to be when he was on the wet/dry diet of EVO before I put him on the raw diet. While on raw he ate between 2 and 4 medallions a day. He hasn't eaten the raw since the end of December when I took him to my mom's and he started having this issue.

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I drove to my mom's on December 28th, a 300 mile drive, and took Buddy with me. He does not like the car and while at my mom's he did not want to eat. I tried baby chicken food, different types of canned, including fancy feast, and boiled chicken. I mixed a generic pedialyte in with his food and tried to make sure he ate something everyday. I took him to the vet up there on January 3rd, and was given a tablet for nausea to try to get him to eat again. That was a disaster as Buddy was strung as high as a kite all night long. He drug himself up and down the trailer all night long and cried to me. He wanted to lay down and sleep but could not remain in one place for more than a few moments. After the dose wore off he still didn't want to eat. As soon as I returned home he began eating as normal. I figured it was all because of being out of his environment and being in the car. He was good and seemed to put a bit of weight back on until Saturday, January 21st, when he had the soft stool and diarrhea. Oh, he has only had the one BM with diarrhea, all others have been shaped but soft stools until Friday the 27th which was firm, the consistency of clay. (I "examined" it.)

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So - he was ok while he was on Raw, before he went to your mom?
If so..... have you tried giving him raw? Will he eat it? Does he eat any Raw at all? Is there a reason why is he eating canned and kibbles now and not raw? Please forgive me if I have the wrong impression.... But I kind of got this from your timeline, and was wondering if getting him back on the diet where he was doing fine would benefit him somehow :dk: Just a thought

...My best wishes!

Thank you, Cool Cat, for the vibes, we take all we can get.

Sugar Cat Mom and Laurie, buddy was prescribed a nausea medicine in January while at my mom's.  I gave him one dose around 7pm and for the rest of the night and through the early morning he was miserable.  He wanted to lay down and sleep but he just couldn't sit still for more than about 5 minutes.  He cried and drug himself up and down the length of my mom's trailer over and over.  I have the whole rest of the bottle somewhere, I promised him I wouldn't do that to him again.  It was Metoclopramide,10 mg pills at half a pill per dose, but I looked up the side effects on-line after I gave it to him and he began having difficulty with it.  The rare side effects were anxiety and restlessness, just like Buddy to get those.  I am leery of trying another nausea med unless it doesn't have these side effects, it was just too stressful for him. 

Carolina, you are correct he hasn't eaten raw since my mom's.  Buddy ate a grain free can and kibble diet (EVO brand) for a year and a half.  I added various canned foods of a higher quality occasionally to change things up for him.  He has always been rather picky about his food.  When he began having trouble in June last year with his legs I began looking into the raw because the steroids he took caused his immune system to decrease and he got the ringworm and conjunctivitis.  The meds he took to clear that up and the depression he was in while wearing the e-collar didn't help.  I switched him over to raw around August or September.   He ate Nature's Variety raw chicken and canned chicken, rabbit and occasionally duck from that time with no problems, that I know of, until December 29th.  On the 28th I drove up to my mom's and Buddy doesn't do well in the car.  He didn't eat anything for that night or the next day, I figured he was stressed out from the 4.5 hour drive. After that he ate but not his usual amount, that is when I began trying different kinds of canned to get him to eat more.  I tried the raw there but he wouldn't eat it.  I did take him to the vet at my mom's.  He gave me the nausea meds. hoping they would allow him to eat more.  When we got back home a week and a half later, he began eating better and was acing more like himself.  That lasted for about 3 weeks, he woke up one morning and had the two soft bowel movements and then diarrhea.   From that day on he again has been eating just not as much.  I wrote about this in my thread "Buddy isn't eating and has diarrhea".  After that I took him to the vet.  Also, I did private message violet and she recommended I go back to the diet he was on before the raw, she called it his "safe" diet.  As a side thought, the last bag of raw has a frost on the pieces, I have wondered if that is why he wouldn't eat them but can't find any reason for it but I have been hesitant to give it too him again.  Now that I am thinking about it, the smell of the raw was slightly stronger with the last bag and it was difficult for me to not think it stunk.  Not a bad smell just the raw smell more strong.  We were on our second bag of the organic line of the NV chicken raw.

The Pepcid seems to be  working even after one dose, the licking is down today. 

Janice and Buddy

So..... of all these diets..... the one he did the best for what I can see..... was raw..... I am confused...... Why not go back to it :dk:
He had troubles before raw - he went on raw he got ok.... Then he got out of raw.... then he has trouble again..... Why not try raw again if he did so well? Or at least have a conversation with your vet about it? At least that is what your timeline is showing me :dk:
I would discuss this with your vet and see what he/she thinks about it.... This is what is calling my attention on your timeline....
If you are unsure of the the bag, I would just buy another one.... Usually that frost is freezer-burn - you can just take that part off and give the rest, but usually not a problem.... If the bag smells off though, you should take to the store to get it replaced for you :nod:

Caramold,  maybe making detailed journal might help figuring things out, it would also help the vet.  

I tried to take notes from your posts.

He has been on Evo grain free since 2010 Oct. for 1 and a half year.

June 2011   leg trouble began, 

June 2011 diet consists of only duck rabbit, chicken.  Buddie can't eat NV beef.  Stopped giving Tiki cat tuna

Aug 2011 switched to NV raw, mainly chicken, occasionally rabbit and duck.

Oct 2011 scab on back

Dec. 29 loss of appetite and soft stool, possibly due to long drive to Mother's place

Around Jan 5 returned home,  a bit back to normal

Jan. 21 loss of appetite and soft stool.

Did Buddie become paralyzed suddenly?   How did he become he paralyzed

Do you think maybe you should run xray and ultrasound, to see if any organ is enlarged? 

space1101 said:

Caramold,  maybe making detailed journal might help figuring things out, it would also help the vet.  

I tried to take notes from your posts.

He has been on Evo grain free since 2010 Oct. for 1 and a half year.

June 2011   leg trouble began,  ( stopped giving Tiki cat tuna)

June 2011 diet consists of only duck rabbit, chicken.  Buddie can't eat NV beef.

Aug 2011 switched to NV raw, mainly chicken, occasionally rabbit and duck.

Oct 2011 scab on back

Dec. 29 loss of appetite and soft stool, possibly due to long drive to Mother's place

around Jan 5 returned home,  a bit back to normal

Jan. 21 loss of appetite and soft stool.

Did Buddie become paralyzed suddenly?   How did he become he paralyzed
Do you think maybe you should run xray and ultrasound, to see if any organ is enlarged? 

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That's a great thing to do... the more detailed the better :nod:

Caramelblond said:

<snip>

Lastly, I asked about the dosage of thyroid medicine.  I confirmed the dosage of 1/4 pill per 24 hours and she confirmed.  I told her I had researched and found the typical dosage to be 1/2 pill twice per day.  I diplomatically stated that I knew she had a reason for her dosage and would like her tell me so I could be on the same page with her.  She said  that because his level was only slightly elevated, she felt that the smaller dosage would be enough to begin with AND avoid the negative side effects of that medicine.  Especially since Buddy seems to be so sensitive to side effects of medicines.  She also said we needed to do another blood test the last week he was on the melds to see how his levels were doing. 

<snip>

Janice and Buddy

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If you read though the feline hyperthyoroid Yahoo! group starting on a very low dose and working up seems to be what the members their believe is the best way to start a cat on HT medication.

Chicken broth - make your own!  Gently poach a chicken quarter (including skin) in a pint or so of water until the meat is falling off the bones.  If you want some colour, brown the chicken skin first.  You can freeze it as well.  Do keep an eye on the poaching that it doesn't go dry.  I would use a leg quarter and flake the flesh into the broth, and cut up the skin as well.  The bones must come out - cooked chicken bones are dangerous.  You can use this broth to make a really tastey soup as well.

Hi all,

At this point Violet, who has been private messaging me, believes that the foods I have been giving him contain ingredients that are causing problems with the pancreas.  Whether or not they caused the problem or not, the issue is that they are absolutely, in her opinion, causing problems now.  She told me to stay off the raw, as it could have been the issue, however the canned diet also has ingredients that are suspect now.  Essentially I need to find a canned and/or raw diet that does not contain anything but the protein, bone and organ component and supplements only.  NO extras, no vegetables or fruit, nothing.  That doesn't seem so much of a challenge for the raw diet aspect but for a canned diet I am lost.  I don't know of any canned foods that don't have other ingredients added.  I won't feed him kibble and I try to get organic foods.  Does anyone have any ideas about the canned food?  I am waiting for a response from Violet about whether or not I can go back to raw or if she has suggestions about a canned diet. 

Basically it sounds like it shouldn't have anything in it except the protein, bone and organ component and supplements only...WHAT CAN I FEED HIM?  Is there such a diet.  I keep finding fish oil on ingredient lists and Violet said that too can cause an issue.   I'm not sure what to do now and feel like I am boxed in with NO choices of what to give him.

Hoping Violet and or someone else can get back to me soon

Janice

Caramelblond said:

Hi all,
At this point Violet, who has been private messaging me, believes that the foods I have been giving him contain ingredients that are causing problems with the pancreas.  Whether or not they caused the problem or not, the issue is that they are absolutely, in her opinion, causing problems now.  She told me to stay off the raw, as it could have been the issue, however the canned diet also has ingredients that are suspect now.  Essentially I need to find a canned and/or raw diet that does not contain anything but the protein, bone and organ component and supplements only.  NO extras, no vegetables or fruit, nothing.  That doesn't seem so much of a challenge for the raw diet aspect but for a canned diet I am lost.  I don't know of any canned foods that don't have other ingredients added.  I won't feed him kibble and I try to get organic foods.  Does anyone have any ideas about the canned food?  I am waiting for a response from Violet about whether or not I can go back to raw or if she has suggestions about a canned diet. 

Basically it sounds like it shouldn't have anything in it except the protein, bone and organ component and supplements only...WHAT CAN I FEED HIM?  Is there such a diet.  I keep finding fish oil on ingredient lists and Violet said that too can cause an issue.   I'm not sure what to do now and feel like I am boxed in with NO choices of what to give him.

Hoping Violet and or someone else can get back to me soon
Janice

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Here you go for the canned - as pure as it gets: http://www.wysong.net/products/aujus-natural-healthy-dog-cat-ferret-food.php
there is pretty much meat and organs, and nothing else.... well, water, and sometimes guar gum, which is a type of fiber. The rabbit is 100% rabbit, nothing added - can not beat that.
I would do either that or raw.
I can seriously not see how raw caused this - not by what you wrote.... unless there is more to it than what is written here in the thread..... but I can't see that in the time line..... really can't.....
Was it confirmed the kitty has pancreatitis, BTW?

I would be looking for a holistic vet at this point, to be honest..... Having this diet conversation with him/her..... Here is how to find one: http://ahvma.org/Widgets/FindVet.html

Janice, I got back to you already, put supper on hold to do it LOL. I wrote to you:

if you believe a raw diet would be the most helpful, maybe that's what you should do. It would definitely be the easiest way to avoid all the ingredients Buddy shouldn't have.

And I really believe that.

I agree with Carolina, the raw, as such, didn't cause the problems. It was the extra ingredients and there is no doubt in mind that if you can avoid those, Buddy will recover.

Earlier today I sent you this in a PM

http://www.blakkatz.com/dryfood.html

The key to what to do and how to help Buddy to get well is under

Inflammatory Bowel Disease

and

"Natural" Dry Cat Food

The thing is, however, that what Michelle Bernard writes applies to all diets. Dry, canned and raw. Not only dry.

From everything I know, it's the damage caused by inflammation that absolutely must be stopped. Hopefully, pure food without ingredients that can cause or aggravate intestinal inflammation can do the job. If not, Buddy might need some anti-inflammatory medication for a while.

The problem with inflammation is that it can do damage unnoticed for a long time. By the time one has to deal with serious symptoms caused by inflammation, the inflammation is very severe.

Violet said:

Janice, I got back to you already, put supper on hold to do it LOL. I wrote to you:
if you believe a raw diet would be the most helpful, maybe that's what you should do. It would definitely be the easiest way to avoid all the ingredients Buddy shouldn't have.
And I really believe that.
 
I agree with Carolina, the raw, as such, didn't cause the problems. It was the extra ingredients and there is no doubt in mind that if you can avoid those, Buddy will recover.
 
Earlier today I sent you this in a PM
http://www.blakkatz.com/dryfood.html
 
The key to what to do and how to help Buddy to get well is under
Inflammatory Bowel Disease
and
"Natural" Dry Cat Food
 
The thing is, however, that what Michelle Bernard writes applies to all diets. Dry, canned and raw. Not only dry.
 
From everything I know, it's the damage caused by inflammation that absolutely must be stopped. Hopefully, pure food without ingredients that can cause or aggravate intestinal inflammation can do the job. If not, Buddy might need some anti-inflammatory medication for a while.
 
The problem with inflammation is that it can do damage unnoticed for a long time. By the time one has to deal with serious symptoms caused by inflammation, the inflammation is very severe.
 
 

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Ohhhhh... I see now Violet - I was getting confused now.... That is very much in line with what my vet told me about Bugsy's IBD :nod: I think that's why he does so well in the diet he is..... But then he eats a pure raw food - no fruits and veggies, additives.... his diet is very clean - makes a lot of difference. Ok - Thanks Violet!

OK, I bought a can of the Wysong chicken Carolina recomended. I also bought a small tub of the Rad Cat chicken raw.  One question about the wysong, it isn't a complete diet, am I correct about that? It is supplemental.  What do I need to add to/with it to make it complete.  I also saw a Weruva cats in the kitchen, pouch.  It didn't look to have any of the ingredients Violet has said to stay away from but it has chicken and tuna.  Is tuna bad for IBD?...It's bad isn't it?  Buddy would probably like it. Figures...

I am thinking it is time to readdress the appetite stimulant.  The Metoclopramide was a disaster and I'd like not to repeat that night but he just isn't eating 200 calories a day.  I am worried about all the other things that can happen due to not eating enough.  He is interested in food.  Everytime I come upstairs with something I'm eating, he wants to know all about it. He eats a little bit then goes away.  He seems to be on a night time eating schedule for now, sleeping during the day.

I am interested in the mirtazapine that Sugar Cat Mom talked about, both appetite stim and antinausea, and the Cerenea that you use, Laurie.  AAhhh this is all so much to take in. thank you for the patience, help and everything, it means sooo much.
 I am going to try to get a full nights sleep tonight,

Janice and Buddy

Caramelblond said:

OK, I bought a can of the Wysong chicken Carolina recomended. I also bought a small tub of the Rad Cat chicken raw.  One question about the wysong, it isn't a complete diet, am I correct about that? It is supplemental.  What do I need to add to/with it to make it complete.  I also saw a Weruva cats in the kitchen, pouch.  It didn't look to have any of the ingredients Violet has said to stay away from but it has chicken and tuna.  Is tuna bad for IBD?...It's bad isn't it?  Buddy would probably like it. Figures...



I am thinking it is time to readdress the appetite stimulant.  The Metoclopramide was a disaster and I'd like not to repeat that night but he just isn't eating 200 calories a day.  I am worried about all the other things that can happen due to not eating enough.  He is interested in food.  Everytime I come upstairs with something I'm eating, he wants to know all about it. He eats a little bit then goes away.  He seems to be on a night time eating schedule for now, sleeping during the day.



I am interested in the mirtazapine that Sugar Cat Mom talked about, both appetite stim and antinausea, and the Cerenea that you use, Laurie.  AAhhh this is all so much to take in. thank you for the patience, help and everything, it means sooo much.
 I am going to try to get a full nights sleep tonight,



Janice and Buddy

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Yes, the Wysong, as I am seeing now, is not complete, but if you feed in rotation with the raw, as recommended in their site for example, you should be fine.
Rad Cat is a wonderful food for IBD :nod: very easily digestible..... My IBD kitty does wonderful in it..... All my cats like it, all the flavors, especially lamb and turkey (they all like chicken too). To entice them to eat, I sprinkle crumbled whole life chicken on the top of it - there is nothing added to it - it is 100% chicken, freeze dried. No preservatives, nothing at all added - chicken only :nod: You can also give it to her as a healthy treat, re-hydrated, in between meals to supplement her intake. It comes very very handy - great thing to have around, and super healthy. Here you go: Whole Life Chicken Treats
Since she hasn't eaten raw in a while, I would start small..... Add 25% to 75% of wet on her first day..... On the second day do 50/50, provided that she does well on the first day. On the third day, move to 75% raw and 25% wet..... then go all raw.... You can then rotate raw and wet.... if you want.... But start small again on the raw - I would not just serve a meal to her....
About the tuna..... IMHO depends on the cat.... Fish is an allergen, and if this particular allergen affects your cat, it can cause inflammation.... which of course will not be a good thing for the IBD. There are other possible issues with fish..... But frankly, short term and in rotation, if she will eat it and if it is not an allergen for her.......... I would go for it. IMHO better than not eating, if the other ingredients are ok. Long term I would not feed it.... at least exclusively.

Janice, I'm keeping my fingers crossed for this to work.

Great advice from Carolina to start slow with the raw.

I think this article will also be helpful to you

http://rawmeatcatfood.com/2010/08/16/serving-sizes/

Hopefully Buddy won't have a serious problem from tuna if he has some once or twice, but please, as a precaution, don't make tuna a regular part of his diet. 

And...... 

another great article for you. Important information about certain food ingredients.

http://rawmeatcatfood.com/2010/08/16/love-can-kill/

Good morning,

Well Buddy is not interested in the Wysong at all.  He goes up to the bowl then turns away.  And he has avoided the raw nest to it all together.  It is frustration because I had to drive 40 minutes to get it. No one in my area carries the wet.  I had to get it at a high price store in Napa.  I would try the rabbit, as he really likes NV rabbit, but they didn't have that one.  Great to be able to order what I want but that is for later I need it now.  I did try the chicken with tuna pouch, and yep, he liked it.  He was able to eat about an ounce  in two visits to the bowl.  First time no problems, second time, about 10 minutes later, he ate a bit more then went potty then dry-heeved.  Nothing came up, just went through the motions.  He has doe that before after the potty but it doesn't happen often and nothing ever comes up.  I know that is a sign of constipation but he urinated this morning not a bm.  The last time was about a month ago, again then not a bm but urine, though.  I took the rest of the food away, I didn't know if that caused it or not. Now I am thinking maybe not.  He has had Tiki cat for several weeks last May, When I didn't know better.  He loved it, that's why I got it for him.  Again early this morning, really went for it.  I was hopeful it would be something I could use to help him want to eat.

Violet I read the first article about how much to feed, it confirms my worry, he is eating the 1/4 cup portion but that is as much as he will take in in one day.  Not more often.  He seems interested in foods that I am eating, and if I bring something up he most often will come to the bowl within 5 min to check it out.  I think I will call the vet today and ask about his appetite.  I am seeing now that he has begun loosing energy.  Could he be nauseated and still be interested in food?  Is it possible that he has a shrunken stomach like humans get and just can't eat that much anymore? 

Thanks to both of you for your constant assistance,

Janice

Very worrisome situation. Thinking of pancreatitis (plus quite possibly IBD as well) as the underlying cause, at this point he desperately needs an appetite stimulant, subcutaneous fluids and anti-inflammatory medication, which, at the correct dose for him, will also be a great help with appetite. If he is constipated, the constipation must also be treated immediately because a constipated cat reaches the point where he simply can't eat. A vet literally needs to "jump start" him and if these measures don't work very quickly, meaning in a day or two at the most, he needs a feeding tube. Anorexia or just even decreased appetite that prevents a cat from getting adequate calories can cause hepatic lipidosis and if that happens you might lose him.

Please put in an emergency call to your vet right now and have him seen without delay to get started with the necessary treatments.

If you can't get the help you need from your vet, you must take him to another vet as an emergency case today.

I'm including the pancreatitis article for info even though I believe you already have it, but PLEASE don't stop to read it now, get started to have Buddy seen as quickly as you can arrange for him to be seen. This is now a very real emergency.

http://www.idexx.com/pubwebresources/pdf/en_us/smallanimal/education/dx-consult/managing-pancreatitis-and-concurrent-conditions.pdf

I was going to post on my worries about hepatic lipidosis too..... This kitty has to eat no matter what at this point..... Violet is very very right.... This is an emergency now :nod: