Need help ASAP! Mom killed her runt.

Hello all,

    We have had an absolutely devastating morning. I was getting ready for work and Dana was cleaning litter boxes for me when he ran into the bedroom and told me not to go into the "kitten foster room" as one didn't make it. I had no idea what he was talking about! I was just in there last night, all looked amazing and beautiful, they were 3 and a half weeks old!

      From what Dana said, it was like a scene from a horror movie. I won't give details, but Gabby literally massacred her runt, little George. He was quite a bit smaller than his siblings, but seemed to be thriving and doing fine. I can only assume Gabby knew something we didn't, that he wasn't "right" and killed him? I have always heard of this happening but have NEVER experienced it with one of my fosters.

     Now I am TERRIFIED for the remaining kittens! Should I worry? Should I seperate them even though I would have to find a way to bottle feed them where they are only 3 and a half weeks old? Was it just a one off thing where George was the runt? Gabby has always been an amazing mom, very loving, very protective and very attentive of her babies, and I am just literally in shock over the whole thing. I haven't stopped shaking all morning and I just don't know what to do. I can't even go to the shelter manager or executive director for advice as they always come to ME for cat related advice, but I am at a loss here.

OMG Kailie. I saw your post on Facebook but obviously didn't know the details until now. How awful 

Hopefully someone here can help you, or what about sending a pm to Hissy?

Yeah, I didn't want to post the details publically on FB as 2 of her other kittens are already spoken for and I didn't want to freak out the adopters just in case. I'm just at a complete loss as to what to do. I'll PM Hissy and see what she thinks, thanks doll.

Here's a link after l did a search in here

http://www.thecatsite.com/t/51806/mother-killing-kittens

Oh, horror!

There are several situations when moms killing her kittens is not unheard of. An unexperienced mom perhaps biting off the cord wrongly...  A highly stressed mom in extremis...  A sick kitten...

But none of these things seems to be the case here...

Moreover, as I understand it, mostly they just eat the kitten, nice and tidy, often hardly any traces left...  Horrendous scenes where experienced people with cojones and stomach hardly wants to tell in clear what it was...

Nay, new for me.

I would sooner suspect someone outsider.  But this is hardly possible here?

If I was a private person I would hope this was a once thing, the mom saw, understood or though there was some wrong on the runt and...   (some try to give the sick one extra attention, but many do end it yes.).

But as Im not supposed to guess -   I dont know.   I cant give any advice.

You must let your instincts tell.

But as they are 31/2 weeks, there is not so very much longer you must giving them flask - if such is your decision.

You may perhaps even manage without the flask, going just for baby food.   I saw even Hissy giving such advice once for 3 weeks kitten. Not because it was the optimal, but because the desperation and circumstances was dire...

Whatever your decision and result of your search

Good luck!   *vibes*

What an awful thing to happen. I feel for you over the shock and grief. My instinct would be to think it was a one-off - that there was something wrong and hte momcat knew what she had to do. But I am sure Hissy will have good advice.

Okay, be calm here. I have been in the same situation.

Cats are generally EXCELLENT and very nurturing moms to their litters. One of the best in the animal world.

Gabby destroyed this kitten for a reason, her instinct was to be rid of her weak link to save the rest. It's quite common in the feral colonies, and does occur occasionally with indoor moms as well, just not as often.

My first thought is, is there some reason why she feels a threat to her litter, perhaps a dog, or another male cat who may be aggressive/dominant, unneutered?

For some reason she stressed about the safety of her litter.

You also are concerned about the others...this can go both ways. Chances are they are safe with mom, but the only way to tell is by closely watching her treatment of them in the next several days. Is she rough with them? Does she keep grabbing them roughly in her mouth, moving their positioning around her? Is she restless in feeding them, standing up and turning around often, or moving away from them so they cannot feed?

If any of these questions are a YES, then it would be in their interest to pull them. They can be put on KMR, monitoring the amt that each one eats, some will get plenty, but others need to be syringed additional KMR until they get the hang of drinking from a dish.

Second Stage is KMR that is for their age, it's thicker formula is easy for them to lap up from a dish.

PLEASE get Gabby fixed, she shouldn't have anymore litters. The next one may be even worse.

Not to mention that for every kitten born, there is another being euthanized, I see it everyday.

Thank you for your help and advice. Gabby is actually a foster cat for the SPCA. I am a HUGE pro spay/neuter advocate. Gabby came to the shelter the day after having her kittens, I brought them into foster care when they were 3 days old. Gabby and the kittens have their own room, bothered by no other animals, but she does get upset if she senses any of my own cats outside the door. All of my own cats are spayed/neutered. I do have unaltered male foster cats but they are in another room, all on their own, away from her.

The shelter manager called a vet and is waiting on a call back to give us some further advice.

I know you're very upset, I would be too, but I have another thought you may want to consider - is it possible the runt died of it's own accord and them the mom tried to eat it?  I know this sounds disgusting, but strays or feral cats have been known to do this, evidently it is both a way of reabsorbing protein for a nursing mother and a way of disposing of a dead kitten so the smell won't attract a predator.

Christine09 said:

I know you're very upset, I would be too, but I have another thought you may want to consider - is it possible the runt died of it's own accord and them the mom tried to eat it?  I know this sounds disgusting, but strays or feral cats have been known to do this, evidently it is both a way of reabsorbing protein for a nursing mother and a way of disposing of a dead kitten so the smell won't attract a predator.

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I did consider this, but I was in the room the night before to feed Gabby and all of her kittens were happily nursing, including little George. If he DID die, it was very, very sudden because he seemed to be doing very well in all aspects, just as of last night before we went to bed. I guess there is just no way to know though.

I've fostered more cats, kittens and litters than I can count in the past 4 years and have encountered many situations, but never anything like this. It's just incredibly sad...

Christine09 said:

I know you're very upset, I would be too, but I have another thought you may want to consider - is it possible the runt died of it's own accord and them the mom tried to eat it?  I know this sounds disgusting, but strays or feral cats have been known to do this, evidently it is both a way of reabsorbing protein for a nursing mother and a way of disposing of a dead kitten so the smell won't attract a predator.

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Yes, this could explain much.  It doesnt really explain that untidy mess. As they usually do eat them nice and practically no clues left.

But it explains excellently the question why a good mother, not stressed, suddenly kills and devours a kitten who although runt but seemingly in good health.  If she didnt threw him out before, she shouldnt do it now, when he is safe and sound.

So either he died by himself, or got visibly worse.  That  is the most probable.

OR something happened from outside.

Oh, dear. I'm sorry, I have no advice, but I want to offer you and - what an awful thing to go through. Keep us posted, and sending all sorts of kind thoughts to you. :heart3:

I am sure you are upset and afraid for the remaining kittens.  But, this is just nature, often mom can sense one isn't going to make it and rather than sacrifice time and energy that could be spent on the healthy kittens, she will "dispose" of the sickly one.  Most of the time, they push them away to let them die of cold or starvation.  Sometimes, they are a little kinder, if you choose to view it that way, and just do it quickly themselves.   It's disturbing, I know, but it is survival of the fittest to them. 

It is true she may have sensed something you didn't.  He may have had some sort of disease or defect that would've killed him anyway.  So really, she was saving him the suffering. 

My King Arthur was the runt of his litter.  His mom didn't reject him, that is how I knew he was OK just small.  His siblings often wouldn't let him nurse but I would bottlefeed him and his mother Genevieve would clean and care for him, too.  So I knew he had a fighting chance.  He is now the most beautiful and one of the biggest cats I have ever had!!! 

Don't worry for the others.  The mother was just doing what she felt was neccessary.  The others should be fine. 

Is there a window in the room?  She is about at the time where she could get pg again so an outside male may be coming around and she may have seen him outside. It could have stressed her and caused her to kill George. If there is a window, I'd make sure it was covered completely. 

Im so sorry for George. and your DH, that must have been awful for him. How did she react while he cleaned everything up?

RAFM said:

Is there a window in the room?  She is about at the time where she could get pg again so an outside male may be coming around and she may have seen him outside. It could have stressed her and caused her to kill George. If there is a window, I'd make sure it was covered completely. 

Im so sorry for George. and your DH, that must have been awful for him. How did she react while he cleaned everything up?

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There is a window in the room but it is small and high up. The room itself that she is in is on the 2nd floor and the window is never opened this time of year.

She is being amazing this evening with the remaining babes, so I can only hope it was a one off thing and there was something wrong with George. Breaks my heart though, as he was my favorite...

Dana said when he was cleaning up, she was almost acting "scolded", like she knew she did something wrong.

Very heartbreaking.   It's odd that she waited so long before "doing away" with the runt. You would think his would happen in first

few days. Hopefully, it was just a primal instinct on her part and things will go smoothly from here on.

I have fostered quite a few moms and have yet to come across this. Well, I did have on mother who aborted her kittens and there was

once when I checked on her (which was frequently) and there was signs of amniotic fluid and slight blood but no fetus. That was the

saddest...and the look on her face..like she knew what was happening.

It does occur to me that noble though it is, fostering entire males and females with kittens at the same time might be better avoided.  The sound and smell of the males can upset nursing mothers.

How is she today Kailie?

Rosiemac said:

How is she today Kailie?

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She is completely fine with the remaining four kittens. We spent a lot of time in the room with them last night just observing her. The babies are quite mobile now and running around and she's been great with them, so I can only assume there was something wrong with George.

OrientalSlave, in 4 years it has never been a problem and they are in different parts of the house. I'm sure that my home is a much better solution than the shelter would be in any case.

Having raised quite a few litter of orphans, I have had kittens die around that age, suddenly, for no apparent reason. I suspect that's the age that genetic diseases such as heart defects, liver shunts, etc. manifest themselves (although I've never had a necropsy done so I'm just guessing). So it is possible that he died of something like that (or even an accident) and the carnage came afterward. Upsetting no matter what. I wouldn't worry too much about keeping the other kittens with her, unless I saw she was being too rough with them.