Is it time to have my cat killed?

Hello,

I'm in this sad position as to wonder wrether it's time to euthanize a cat or not. This is a cat I was nourishing in my backyard and end up taking inside for winter, in a place separate from my other cats (I couldn't find the owner, and that's the reason he stayed outside so long: I have other cats). He was fine for a while, though he appeared slow: he looks to me like an old cat (the vet gave him at leas 8 years old).

A couple weeks ago, he started sneezing and, sort of like a big cough. It might have been longer than that. Maybe something has been going on and I didn't realize it was an urgent case. Nevertheless, 8 days or so ago, the cat began to make a heavy breathing sound. Brought it to the vet, and they reacted like he was in his final hours. The scans didn't give much more info. They said there was no pneumonia, but maybe there was something in the throat, and that they would need to go see there, but that the cat was too distressed to suffer anesthesia at the time of exam, so they suggested a couple days in oxygen tent and antibiotics to see if he was getting better. In the meantime they discovered he had FIV, and that wrether the cat remains alive, he wouldn't last for over a year. Basically it was "you should have it euthanized" from the start, for them.

Eventually we paid over 2000 dollars of treatment for a couple day for no results.

The vet than suggested they open the throat to see if he had inflammation or cancer (a surprising extra 600$), but that if it was cancer they would not be able to surgically remove it,

so to consider if it was worth it (as in: "come on you guys, you need to have this cat killed").

I asked if, in the case of inflammation of throat due to a cold, if that would go away in 3 days or if that could take a week or more. They said, it can take a week. So I left with medication and the cat being on Cantovonia (or a name like that) antibiotics, hoping that would be enough to cure him. It's been 5 days since the vet, and the cat doesn't breathe better. He eats his food, in fact more than usual (empties the bol), he goes to toilet, he comes to get petted (obviously not a feral cat, this cat was lost or abandoned), and looks out the window. So..He's like in pain but manage to do standard living things.

Oh, I forgot...A doctor in my family looked at the scan and think it's the ganglias which are large due to an inflammation, and prescribed penicillin (here, doctors are allowed to prescribe medication for animals). So I started with that too (hard to give... The other pills he eats them with the food, but this is a liquid that smells banana, and he has to take a lot...I have a syringe but it's a total mess).

So my point was: I don't know anymore if I should let him be like that for a couple weeks still, or bring him to euthanasia. I always read that you do it when the cat stops all activities. It's not exactly that, he goes to the windoes, comes to see me, even plays a bit when I move an object, but when he sleeps he has that constant sound and breathing problem and I don't know if it's just "I'm really sick, don't worry it will eventually go), or "Can't you see I'm dying you nutcase? Help me out of this misery!".

In the meantime, my cats are in a different place in the house, but I couldn't help one curious to run when I opened a door, and go near the sick cat. I'm worried about how easy FIV can spread. I hope I don't turn out with my other 3 cats all with FIV. Oh lord, what a mess.

BTW, hospitalizing an animal is extremely costly, so I figure that vets are focussed on "quick-curing".  There doesn't seem to be a model for animals who need long-term care. If you buy the fluid yourself and a tent, you don't have to pay high "monitoring" fees. I was literally told "if you have 12 000 dollars, we can keep your cat here for 2 weeks.". Like we are bad people because we don't have those 12 000 dollars. I'm just depressed by my experience.

Cheers,

Giacometti

Not to worry, none of us animal lovers have that kind of money laying around!

First, FIV is spread through deep bites, the vast majority are unneutered males, which most commonly will fight and bite to really injure, so your other cats are fine, they won't get it.

Also, it sounds as if he still has some quality in his life.

Who's to say if he will get better at this point, he very well may recover from all of your tlc and meds, and know this, if he does not, he went out with love, a feeling that someone in this world cared, acknowledged his existence, and not just suffered out in the cold, unwanted, a piece of trash to be discarded as he previously had been.

I have a cat rescue group, and you are the very kind of person I admire for your loving heart for a sad little cat.

YOU ARE A HERO

Oh honey, I don't know what to tell you  . I am a firm believer in the kitty will let you know when it's ready to go, and it doesn't sound like he is. I just think it is wonderful that you took this kitty in and are footing his bills. I don't have enough experience with FIV to say if your other cat is in danger. I haven't had to deal with that (yet).

I will give you a tip with the liquid anitbiotics though. Our Gizmo takes liquid antibiotics when he has a flare up of feline herpes, and it tastes TERRIBLE. Yes, I tried a drop, and it tastes terrible. We have learned its easier to mix it with some chicken or beef broth (using bullion) and use a syringe to give it to him that way. For his situation it is fine with the vet, but check with your own to make sure the sodium in the bullion won't cause any problems, and it's ok to mix it with something. Another option to mix it might be kitten milk. 

Bless you for taking care of this poor baby. There aren't many people in the world that would do that. Please keep us up to date on how he's doing.

He doesn't sound in too bad of shape to me.  I would let the antibiotics run their course before I made any decisions. Especially if he's doing all of the other normal activities. 

As for the surgery, I wouldn't do it either. If it is untreatable cancer, well, now the cat has to recover from surgery on top of everything else. Or, there is nothing there and then the kitty still has to recover from surgery. 

In my experience, 8 can still be very young, especially if he has been inside for part of that time. A stray at 8 is very different 8 than an indoor-only kitty.  I would just wait it out a bit longer. 

I have to agree with the others - it doesn't sound like he's asking for you to let him go. :heart3: I'd give him some more time on the antibiotics. :nod:

Also just wanted to let you know we have an FIV+ kitty living inside with our seven non-FIV+ kitties. And catwoman707 is right. :nod: Your other kitties will not get FIV just by being around/near him. Introductions would need to be made properly so there's no major fights, but it does require a deep tissue bite wound. Many, many vets confuse FIV and FeLV - or don't really know the difference. FeLV is spread casually between cats (sharing food, or mutual grooming, for instance). But FIV is not spread casually. Chumley (the FIV+ kitty) grooms our Billy hours a day (loves to clean his ears :lol3: ), and Billy is just fine.

Vibes for you and your rescue boy. :rub:

Thanks all for the answers.

The cat is breathing really loud tonight, doesn't look good at all.

He makes weird throat noises while eating. He seems to want to eat

like it's taking pain away (to eat). I never saw him eat that much.

Then he's in "sphinx" position and breathes like it's really annoying

him. This "sphinx" position, but a little toward the ground, doesn't

speaks good to me. I wish there was a sign that the antibiotics

are working. How long can it take to cure a bad throat if it's

just the flu?

By the way, my mother volunteered to take care of this

cat if he comes back on his feets, and then after 2 or 3 months,

when I tests my cats, I would take him back if my cats

are all FIV (well, my mother really wants it, so it depends).

I'm also feeding another cat outside, in a heated little house.

This is a real feral cat. Impossible to approach. I had to use

traps to get her spayed. Also, once I tried to bring her inside,

but she panicked and screamed like hell for hours, so I

let her go. I've known this cat for many years.

Always strong and healthy. She will outlive many

home cats I'm pretty sure. I think she even catch and

kill birds (!).

Just a bit of thought, during this cat's critical time, if you can hold off on sending him to Mom's, it's better for him.

Due to the change, the stress alone will not do him good. He is in fragile condition now, and with FIV his immunity is crap, and will take time to rebuild.

If the concern is for your other cat's getting FIV, they are safe, really.

I mean they would have to get into this huge cat brawl and really bite to be at risk.

If it's at all possible, please rethink this.

Also, 8 years old is fairly young for the average cat, however an FIV cat who is as sick as he sounds can die from it, he is lacking the strong immunity that normal cats have, just depends on his sickness, how far along/how soon it was caught and being treated.

I know this first hand, I rescued a cat from the streets last year, he was positive too (unneutered male) which didn't surprise me since his ears looked a bit ragged from cat fighting (I mentioned in my first reply how unneutered males are the biggest spreaders through their fighting) and living like that for his 7-8 years of life means a better chance that he did get it.

He had a mild upper respiratory infection, was put on antibiotics, but you know, he just never seemed to get rid of it all the way, it would come and then get milder, this went on for over a year, but at least for that time he had a very loving foster home (where by the way they had several other cats who were NOT positive) so at least when he did finally go downhill he was surrounded with love and a feeling of belonging, and died peacefully, instead of the crap life he used to have.

Hello Catwoman,

Yeah, mine is also unneutered male, and he does have one ear rather ragged. It's hard to imagine him fighting, he's like a big baby when I take him (he doesn't mind me taking him in the "baby" position (legs up), which is not all cats, especially not cats you don't have a long relationship with).

But the breathing tonight is loud, short, heavy and...it's a bit like he's gasping for air. I'm just very worried I'm torturing him. He still eats though. I never had a cat with a problem like this. The other cats I had all died rather fast (one from electrocution (at the time, I didn't know a cat could eat TV cables), most others from cancer or unknown sickness that went very fast, barely having the time to visit the vet (one died in my arms while getting to the vet). They were all old mind you.). This one seems very sick, but like he's holding on. If he would stop eating and going to the toilet and just lie on the floor It'd be easier for me to know it's time for euthanasia, but instead he always wants my attention or look out the window (he wants to go back outside now. I will give him a small walk with a leech, but if he turns better I want to turn him into a indoor cat.).

I have a feeling this cat is in his final days, but it could be like this for a month or two. He's on loads of medication and nothing improves. What does Prednisolone do? This is suppose to be the main pain killer. Is it hard enough to relieve a great deal of pain?

Apart from that, I give him: Convenia (it's already injected), Penicillin, Pepcid (anti-acid, because of all the meds), and chloramphenicol. Any meds suggested for a very sick cat?

Thanks

Hi Giacometti,

A few things here, he gets the urge to go outside to prowl for a mate, because he is unfixed, that will remain unless he is literally knocking on death's door.

With the upcoming kitten season, cats are mating like mad right now, and he wants to be part of this.

My rescued guy was a baby too, he was gentle and very loving, BUT an entirely different story outside. Males are EXTREMELY territorial of his space/colony.

One of his females go into heat and attract other outsider males, then the vicious fighting begins. And they fight for blood/to kill if they can.

Males will even father new litters of kittens, then kill the babies by attacking the male babies as they think they are a threat, and kill the female babies by attempting to actually mate with them as a way to "own" them.

Yes, ugly but a known fact in the rescue world. It's instinct and the huge reason why we should all be responsible and get our kids fixed.

As for meds, the Covenia is a 2 week antibiotic, this will prevent him from developing pneummonia, just be sure to have him re-injected BEFORE the 2 weeks are up, in his condition he will surely develop it without this for protection, and just a few days late with this is enough for it to happen. (been there, learned the hard way)

Predisolone is prednisone after the liver transforms it. It's an anti-inflammatory and reduces the immunes response. Common side effects are increased thrist and appetite, looser stools, restlessness.

Chloramphenicol is an anti-bacterial drug given because of it's wide range effectiveness on many types of infections.

In my opinion, your vet seems to be on the ball here, but beware of these meds, give the exact dosage he said, watch for any changes in appetite and behavior, as they are potent and serious drugs for your kitty.

All you can do now is continue the meds, give lots of love (proven fact to help in healing) and wait.

It will take more time for him to show improvement if he is going to, being FIV+, but it doesn't mean he won't get better.

Without seeing him I can't tell you my opinion on whether or not he will make it, but he very well may, his good appetite, etc are very good signs that it is not his time, he's trying to recover.

You're doing great

Originally Posted by Giacometti  

What does Prednisolone do? This is suppose to be the main pain killer. Is it hard enough to relieve a great deal of pain?

Click to expand...

Prednisolone AKA Prednisone is not a pain killer. It is a steroid. It is great for inflamed airways, asthma, bronchitis, URI, etc- won't do anything for pain, unless there is pain caused  by congestion & inflammation- then once the inflammation is reduced, it will make the pain subside - but itself is not a pain killer.
 

Hello,

so my sick cat's health has improved a lot. He still has a constant breathing problem but it's much smaller, and as someone said here, might never go away. He is very playful, asks for a lot of attention, eats and go the the toilet a lot. Really, he looks more like a cat with an handicap than a sick cat rigt now.

I have the problem that sometimes he pisses elsewhere than in the litter. Not sure how to make that stop. I close many doors because of that (the main 3 rooms he uses are large anyway).

I guess I'm gonna have at some point to try and mix my healthy cats with this FIV cat. I wonder if they can get the disease by eating in the same bowls, because my cats do that, they eat in each other's bowls (sometimes the food is varied too).

My healthy cats seem happy to be separated from the sick cat. They stay away from him (he's harmless: he goes after them for curiosity and seem sad to be rejected). Only one of them makes noises of "unwelcomness" to the sick cat if he gets near them, but no violence whatsoever (it's 3 females (spayed) and he's male).

Cheers!

I'm so glad to hear he's going better. By the way, what's his name? 

When it comes to the trouble breathing, you're right, it may never go away completely. It's common for outdoor cats to get feline herpes which is a chronic virus which causes congestion (at times extreme) and runny eyes and nose. It can't be cured but the symptoms can be helped. Check with your vet and see if you could mix some L-lysine in with his food. You can find it in a powder form some places, or just get over the counter human pills and crush them up. We have 2 that have been diagnosed with it, and the Lysine does help when they have outbreaks. It shouldn't hurt him since it's a suppliment but with everything else he's taking right now check and make sure.

Wonderful to hear some improvement is finally showing! Good job

The peeing is a territorial marking. He really needs to be neutered asap. The better he starts feeling, the more his hormones will affect his behavior.

He will NOT infect your healthy cats by eating out of their dishes.

Remember this, FIV is spread by UNNEUTERED males fighting, deep biting, which happens because their hormones are running the show.

Once he is fixed, within 3 weeks the strong odor of his urine will go away, his need to mark everything will lessen, and the cats can co-exist without threat of spreading of FIV.

A healthy FIV+ cat can live a long life, just be sure to keep up on his FVRCP vaccines.

FIV simply means his immune system is weaker and he will be more succeptable to contagious viruses, and his immunity needs medicinal help to cure because it is weaker, so catching them early if he does contract any is key here!

His name is french, Mystère LeGris, which is a playword on "Mr. TheGrey" but the full translation is Mystery TheGrey (because his provenance is a mystery and he's forever greyish as all cats can be at night).

Someone came over and was astounded at how well he's improved. He sat near us while we dined, and made a gesture with his paw, like he's been trained to ask for food that way. His purring is normal. For a while it was screeching loud and sounded very painful. We're talking of a cat that all the vets I visited told me he was finished and should be put to death. The last one gave the antibiotics, and said "try it for 5 days, and if he doesn't improve, really consider ending the sufferings". But I'd say it took more 15 days to notice an improvment than 5 days. What got me suspicious is that I've survived long diseases myself, so I thought "wait a minute... When I have a pneumonia, it doesn't come back in 5 days". At the same time he looked so terrible that I understand how

people could think he was not "coming back". It's the fact that he was still very hungry and coming for caresses that made me hesitate.

I'm guessing Feline Herpes would be a disease that my other cats could get?

Cheers!

Hello,

I am bumpng this thread because the cat I was talking in this thread died tonight. Well, Friday night.

I am more relieved than in pain because he was a weak cat, but am worried that I did something

wrong. I thought about last year when I wrote on this forum, and thought to come back here

to tell how things went on.

First, the very deep breathing problem from last year, that all gone away.

I'd say the last thing he was doing well tonight is breathing. Last Spring

I was still giving him Lysine supplement while he kept crying for going

outside. I couldn't stand it so I did what many would have asked me

not to do: let him out. This cat is generally slow and very sedentary.

He wasn't interesting in running the hood looking for mates at all.

All he wanted was to be in his shed outside where he always slept.

I'd say he passed a really good year. All went back to normal, and

I stopped giving him Lysine because he was getting too afraid of

me (I had to force-fed him by syringe). I was only adding supplements

to his food.

Came winter, and I took him back in. Everything looked fine,

except he was a little lightweight, but he was always lightweight

I thought. All the holidays looked fine except I remarked he was drinking

lots of water. Now I found out that a cat drinking loads of water is

an alert. I didn't catch that. About two weeks ago, he started to have

mucus in his eyes. This has been an ongoing problem. I treat it

and it comes back. I gave him Gentecin droplets, and at that point

it was just routine. The droplets bottle ended. This was a leftover

from a precedent use, but the bottle said it was not expired.

Now, here is where things started to get wrong, and really wrong.

I use human Polysporin eye drops, from the suggestion of a friend

as a replacement. It was fine for a couple days, but then 3 days

ago, one eyed looked like glued with dried mucus. The cat was

walking disoriented a little. I tried to same some of that mucus

out but it was hard. I washed the cat's face with water and

thought that would resolve itself, and that the cat was confused

for having an eye shot. He was still drinking, eating, purring, etc..

The next day there wasn't a lot of change, and I was pondering

going to the vet. I told myself "oh but they will only want to kill it"

because he is a lightweight cat with FIV that just doesn't look

like a fat healthy cat. So I hesitated, but I started giving him

back Lysine which I had stopped giving him since a big while.

The next morning he had like both eyes stucked and was

on the floor walking very disorientated. He wouldn't eat

and barely drinked. I took a RV with the vet, but they only

had a place late. I have to say I waited and panicked because

I felt that going to the vet they would just tell me to kill it like

last year because he does look like a very weak cat.

Eventually later the same day I went to the vet, and basically

they told me the heart was going really bad, and I had to decide

quick between heart reanimation or euthanasia. Someone

jumped in and said this cat wouldn't support heart reanimation.I went for

euthanasia, but the vet then told me the cat died by itself while

proceeding (the stress of going to a vet perhaps didn't help).

Basically, I was told the cat was very dehydrated, and that he

probably died from a combination FIV and renal failure. I do not

know exactly what happened. They didn't react to my story

about eyedrops, but I get a feeling I did something wrong.

That and not going to the vet fast enough, but I knew

they weren't going to let him survive. I had to fight my

way last year to give him an extra year of life, but this

time I was just lost: it all went so fast. I must say the cat

looked more lethargic than in pain when I brought him

to the vet. I've brought cat in pain before, and there is

a world of difference. Very painful to watxh a cat cry.

This one just felt very asleep. I'm having nightmares

right now, thinking about infection to the brain starting

from the eyes inside. Both my eyedrops bottles

weren't new. But renal failure makes more sense.

Anyways, this cat was a worry for me because

of his FIV. The vets gave him 2 years the most last year.

Hopefully I did what I could.

I'm here to thank those who supported me last year.

I will spread the ashes of my beloved half-feral

cat in my backyard where he loved to hang.

Cheers and thank you.

..

.

I'm so very sorry

I wanted to say that it sounds like kitty had a few very severe health problems, and that even if the eye drops weren't meant for kitty, I seriously, seriously doubt it could do anything that caused his heart or kidney problems.

I think you should pat yourself on the back for helping kitty. Don't beat yourself up. A lot of people would never have gone to the lengths you've gone to treat this kitty. And you did. 

I am sorry about him passing away. But please, please don't blame yourself. You did, in my opinion, everything that you could.

Hugs and vibes to you. 

Thanks JenL!

There are a few things I haven't done right,

like not going to the vet sooner, but things

happened a little fast too. But I was complaining

a couple days ago that the winter here was too dry,

not enough snow, and it's been snowing almost

non-stop since the night M-L died. I take that as

a gift from the heavens, to anyone who believe

in such things.

Also, it's sad that M-L died during euthanasia

(right before), but I take it as the cat's revenge

to all those vets since a couple years who told

me it was time to kill this cat. It's like "nah nah

you won't get me!"

There is one other feral cat (friend of M-L)

I'm taking care of right now, no FIV, neutered,

and at least half a cat's life old, and I think this

is the last feral I will take care of. I cannot get her to

come inside, but when she "flirts" the door,

my home cats don't seem to detest her

as much as they did M-L (which was a

major problem). If I could get her inside

(I tried "force" but she was screaming

for days like under torture),I would profit

from not having any other feral around to

stop that activity, because taking care of

ferals is non-stop: they come one after

the other. And it's giving me more concern

than dealing with the inside cats.

Cheers!