A New "Raw"some Beginning... (yup - another one LOL) - Page 3

Thanks, Laurie .... Pipsqueak had a good lunch - EVO canned and a good dinner - Fromm chicken and a teeny bit of NV rabbit. He did great - no tummy trouble. He seems to tolerate rabbit quite well But I will not push the raw for four more days. I need to be sure that this vomiting is either certain raw proteins OR he is still sick... and therefore will need another re-check from Dr. Mark. Will keep you posted on that.

Dinner went extremely well all the way around. Tonight was NV rabbit 75% and 25% NL chicken. Perla did NOT have an appetite but I am not surprised. Unfortunately, her eye has taken a turn for the worse and she is back on an ointment with steroid this time. Will update her thread in health. Overall - everyone did very well with dinner and I have a bunch of happy kitties tonight. Makes momma so happy and at peace then too.

Morning update. WELL ..... I decided to go back down to 50% raw and 50% wet for today. Both Walden and Wendall have diarrhea . I really think the Nature's LOGIC brand will not work for my cats. So the dogs will be getting the NL. I will be sticking to the NV and Stella right now to play it safe until everything settles down. I have to just allow my cats to get used to one brand and will follow Carolina's great instructions for the very slow introductions. I really want to keep up with the raw meat - but I am not going to push it to 100% anytime soon. I think even a little of raw meat each day in their meals is better than none at all.

I am very worried about Wendall and I will be watching him closely today. He never refuses food, ever. So I can't blame the raw just yet as he may be sick. He has terrible diarrhea and I am hearing some "gurgling" when he takes a breath here and there. Never heard that before. SO as you can see, I am just overwhelmed right now with some sick pets. I am going to take his temperature right now. Will let you know how he does. DEEP BREATH and will say my prayers.

OK - Wendall has NO fever. BUT if you remember he started with this last Fall - the first one sick. Remember - I rushed him in - fever, coughing, etc. I have to wonder if he and Walden are carriers of something that brought all of this into this house .... BUT we will deal with this - they deserved a home just as much as the other's and we can never be guaranteed of any kitties health - good, bad or otherwise. SO having said that - he has no fever - I started him on the Metronidazole as he has had terrible diarhea for two days and this could very well be a virus. He had raspy breathing as well this morning for about 1/2 hour - then coughed and it stopped. I almost rushed him to emergency, I was so scared. He will go see Dr. Mark - a second opinion. I love my little man so very much. I have a call into Dr. Mark and he will call me in the morning.

NOW - I DO believe it possibly IS the Venison - beef heart - because Walden and Wendall have been the only ones eating the Venison because I figured they were tolerating it well and I wanted to use up the bag .... ODD that they both got diarrhea on the same day. Walden is over it. Wendall had some more earlier. NOW I have decided to forego the Nature's Logic for the cat's. Will feed that to the dogs. Laurie, I studied the spreadsheet and agree that Nature's Logic has WAY WAY too many fruit powder's. I went to the new natural store I found today and talked with the owner. OH they have four rescued kitties roaming around the store. SO cute. Anyway, she said that she has had people returning bags of Nature's Logic because their cats vomited/diarrhea on the product. Other's were fine. SO, yes, WE do live and learn by trial and error, unfortunately the kitties take the brunt of our lessons - but how else would we know. Laurie - you helped me today more than you know - and you are right, it is alright to back pedal a day till things settle down

Back on a plan again So I decided that Pipsqueak will eat some NV rabbit and he had about 1/2 ounce with dinner mixed with Wellness Core. He has had NO vomiting today - so that is great news. He cannot tolerate Venison, or Nature's Logic ... So far he is good on NV rabbit, NV chicken and S&C Lamb - although he does NOT like the lamb and I have to really cover it with something he really likes....... FF...... BUT on the way is the Whole LIfe treats that Auntie suggested. She said the most cats LOVE LOVE the Whole LIfe treats. WELL, AUNTIE....... we will have to wait and see - Pipsqueak broke the mold when God made him

Everyone else had the same thing that Laurie's kitties had..... that's right..... NV MAN they love the rabbit too over here at my place. In fact, Presley jumped on the counter and took off with a medallion that I had sitting on a plate when I had my back turned GOOF BALL - that Presley. I had to chase him down for it and he wouldn't let it go I did let him have a teeny bite because it makes me so happy and proud that he loves the meat so well.

At the new store today, I bought a bag of Primal Turkey AND they also sell a wide variety of other raw meat's on Laurie's spreadsheet. Aunt Jeni's and Raw Advantage. BUT I will NOT risk adding anything new at the moment. I want to stick with NV, S&C and try Primal (once things settle down.) I am playing it very safely right now.

The only two who have been eating 100% raw are Walden/Wendall - group #1.... but I have been mixing brands/proteins together - I don't think they have ever had ONE meal at 100% of just one protein .( obviously I have been "rushing" along the proteins too quickly ) I will try to give you a brief synopsis and separate the three groups. #1 Walden/Wendall #2 Perla, Perkins and Presley and #3 Pipsqueak. The reason I have the groups is because each group has moved along differently in this raw transition and at different rates. Brands/Proteins I have introduced are: NV rabbit, NV chicken, NV Venison, S%C Lamb and Nature's Logic Chicken - all over a two week stretch.....

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#1 Walden and Wendall - We were at 100% raw until two days ago, then the diarrhea started. (now it has stopped ) At first I was starting them right off the bat at 50% raw to 50% wet. No troubles at all. They all started with NV rabbit, then added in every other day or so (if things were good) a new protein/brand, the ones listed in the paragraph above... Too many, too fast... Each at 50% each. SO you can see, bad momma, no slow introductions - but the were doing just fine - so I just continued on. The other problem I think is that I was mixing proteins and brands. Another NOT GOOD, I realize this now. This week new was the Nature's Logic Chicken. Introduced at 50% mixed with 50% Venison. I think that did them in. After reading how you do the introductions ( and thanks) - I realized I have done this all wrong. And am making the proper changes as of yesterday.

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#2 Is basically the same as above - except for the Venison - which Perkins can't tolerate. (that is why I was pushing it on Walden and Wendall - I figured they could handle it) The three P's have gotten to 75% raw with 25% wet. Same problem with this group. Mixing up the proteins to add variety to their meals. Presley vomited for the first time on Sunday morning. Nature's Logic Chicken 50% lamb 25% and 25% wet. That is when I decided I have to back pedal a bit and get my "ducks" in order and have a much better plan for this raw transition.

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#3 Pipsqueak has only gotten to 50% raw and 50% wet. With many setbacks. Vomiting mostly. I found he does well on NV rabbit and S&C Lamb. Right now, he is getting 50% rabbit at each meal with 50% Wellness Core, EVO or Weruva mixed in. He has not vomited since Saturday.... Saturday he had the Nature's Logic - 50% and Weruva wet. It all came up an hour after eating > Pipsqueak has an extremely sensitive stomach. I do not feed him the raw even in a cool state - it has to be at least room temp or warmer. I am hoping in the next few days - if all stays good with him - to introduce the Primal Turkey into the mix. BUT I will do it slowly - and for PIP - I mean about 10- 20% the first day.... I have learned my lesson with him. ALSO - I noticed that if he eats a little something BEFORE he gets the raw - it sits better in his tummy. SO he gets about 1/2 teaspoon of canned food BEFORE he gets the raw mixture now too. I have no idea if this is helping - but I think it is.

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My cats get three main meals a day and one late night snack. Breakfast, lunch, dinner and a late PM snack of EVO kibble (1/16 cp.) I am trying to change that late snack to the freeze-dried Vital Essentials chicken or S&C chicken or Halo treats. At each of the three "main meals" they get about 1.5 ounces of food each. Of course, the three P's and Pipsqueak don't always clean their plates - but it is close.

Thanks for wanting to help... I am going to change my plan here and feel very excited again about trying. I took a step back over the weekend because I was just really scared, worried and frustrated - I also realize that even though I am dealing with some sickies - the raw food WILL only help my cats become more healthy I just have to find which brand's are good and which proteins of those brands are good for my cats - and that they will all tolerate. I do not want to have some proteins for group #1 and different ones for group #2 and #3 I just want to have in the house raw meats that they can ALL eat well and thrive on. SO I have learned - no more Venison and no more Nature's Logic chicken. I have a bag of Nature's Logic Rabbit in the freezer - but will not even attempt to introduce that for quite awhile, if ever. I am worried about the brand now.

Hope this all makes sense. Because of your question to me - it made me realize that I have been rushing brands and proteins and not allowing them to just enjoy one over the other for more than a day or two. I was so conditioned with WET food to rotate brands day after day - and I realize with RAW, I must not feed it the same way as I was the wet. Thanks for bringing up this discussion and it made me really think about how I have been moving way too fast with rotations. OH - I am also writing down - as of yesterday exactly what everyone is getting and how they responded to it.... ARGH - so time consuming BUT a labor of love!!!!
Edited by Feralvr - 1/30/12 at 5:51pm

Breakfast- WAS GOOD FOR ALL TODAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Pipsqueak - 50% NV rabbit and 50% Weruva Cats in the Kitchen - duck/chicken.

Walden/Wendall - 50% S&C Lamb with Weruva chicken soup.

The three P's - 50% S&C Lamb with Weruva Cats in the Kitchen - duck/chicken.

PERFECT for everyone - calm tummies, satisfied kitties, and HAPPY MOMMA !!!!!

YEP!!!!!!!!!!!! Exactly.... My word of honor from this day forward - SLOW INTRODUCTIONS OF ANY NEW BRAND/PROTEIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Ya think, I got the point now

Played it very safe for dinner again, and it paid off .

Pipsqueak - 50% rabbit - 50% Weruva chicken soup.

The three P's - NV Chicken - 1 oz. each - mixed with a little bit of Weruva Chicken Soup.

The two W's - S&C Lamb again - 1 oz. each - mixed with a little bit of Wellness Beef/Chicken.

Went very, very well and no tummy trouble. So far so good - getting back on track. Can't wait to try the Primal Turkey. Also - no NV rabbit anywhere Four Legs is going to try to order in a case - because there are a number of people, like us , waiting for the NV rabbit. We will see if it is available

I am almost out of NV rabbit - so I will be slowly getting Pipsqueak on to the NV Chicken. I would like to try the Vital Essential's frozen Chicken too, since Laurie, you say your cats like that better than the NV chicken.

We need a "SOLEMN RAW OATH"!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I hereby declare it .......... Follow protocol - and INTRODUCE NEW BRANDS and/or PROTEINS IN TEENY TINY AMOUNTS

Carolina THANK YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! OMgosh - I have NOT introduced any raw meat at 100% not at all..... and THAT right there explains my problems. I was to overly excited about starting my cats on a raw diet that I overlooked the proper way to introduce the raw meats on a strict schedule. Your post above IS so helpful to me that I am printing it out and putting it on my fridge I am keeping an exact log of everything my cats are eating - a journal. I really appreciate this information - I must stick to this plan. I just hope they cats will eat without having something NEW added into the mix. I am waiting for my delivery of more Halo - more Fortiflora - and the new ammo .... Whole Life freeze-dried chicken. Auntie thinks Pipsqueak might go for that one - I sure hope so

I have to hope and pray that my natural store receives their order of NV rabbit for Thursday delivery. I only have about eight medallions left I will have to start with the S&C Lamb then as the first 100% protein since I also found out that the cat's all love the S&C freeze-dried Lamb patties (more than the raw meat) They go absolutely, positively crazy for it. AND this is going to be the late night meal INSTEAD of the EVO dry . Except for Pipsqueak. He hates the freeze-dried meats. He sure is giving me a hard time. This morning he only ate about 1/2 of his meal 50% NV rabbit and 50% EVO wet. He was begging for more and I sprinkled the Fortiflora on top but he walked away. He IS hungry and I will make him wait till the next meal . No vomiting though -

Everyone IS doing just great - poops are perfect - pee clumps are HUGE - and everyone is getting along SO very well. Wendall/Walden are over their diarrhea as well.

You should see Perkins coat too - incredible - looks like a shiny new penny - and my cats are not on 100% raw - just incredible the difference in their energy level, coats, and eyes. Nice clean butts too - one perk I really love

Dinner went well!! 50% S&C Lamb and 50% Core. Everyone did very well with that. Perla is not to keen on the frozen raw Lamb (with fortiflora - she will dig in though) but really likes the freeze-dried Lamb. I will only be offering that for the late night snack instead of the EVO dry. Although, Pipsqueak will not eat the freeze-dried and really isn't to keen on the frozen Lamb - but he did eat about 2/3 of his dinner.

I was reading through Dr. Pierson's raw feeding guide. I didn't get a chance to read it page by page - but one thing stuck out in my mind in regards to my upcoming vacation. She said that canned food can be left out for up to 12 hours (not ideal - but is OK if you have too) and if you freeze it first and let it thaw slightly - it will last longer and de-thaw and stay fresher that way. I am really thinking this might work for me when I have to be away from home. Since Krista comes 2 to 3 times a day - she could just pick up any leftover canned food - although I doubt there will be any. I just have to mull this over first in my mind. This would at least get me off dry completely then. My only concern is Perla/Perkins. I would hope there would be some left for them AFTER Krista leaves and they come out of hiding. I could also have her put some bowls upstairs in the foster room OR in our bedroom where Perla probably will be hiding under the bed. I also wonder IF I could leave out freeze-dried raw pieces also. The Vital Essential's freeze-dried raw chicken is much harder than the S&C raw cubes and would be similar to leaving out kibble. Just some options I am tossing around in my head. I know May is a far way off - but time flies AND I might have to make a trip up to see my Mom - so I have to have a plan of some sort. I really would like to forego all kibble - but have to figure out how to feed these furbabies in my absence.

Tomorrow I will go to 75% S&C Lamb and 25% wet. The next day will be 100% S&C Lamb!!!!! I don't think Pipsqueak will be very cooperative with this transition - he is really giving my a hard time about the raw - even the rabbit - he does pick around it. BUT I have to say that as of a couple of week's ago - I never thought Pipsqueak would ever even taste raw. We are making progress.

I am will call the store tomorrow and see IF they were able to order in the NV rabbit... I didn't get a call today saying otherwise - but I am worried about that. IF I can't get the NV rabbit - I will go to the NV chicken for the next protein introduction. I also have to get some more S&C Lamb Almost out.

Yep, will be careful with Pip..... My sensitive and picky raw baby.


Sooooooooooo. Tonight again, BIG HIT for bedtime meal. S&C rehydrated freeze dried Lamb . Two days in a row now, NO KIBBLES..... (except PIP). This will be replacing the kibble at night. Will add the Duck in as well and some of the other varieties. My cat's are already used to the S&C freeze dried product anyway. But I have not used the dog food proteins yet. I am SO glad they are supplemented with the Taurine, same as the frozen. I am ONE happy momma tonight .... come on, PIP.... You have to join the fun

My five raw eater's did well this morning and made me SO happy Everyone is at 75% S&C Lamb. Tomorrow will be 100% and then I will introduce the NV chicken. Perla was asking for more food too after her breakfast and I did not have any more raw thawed for her - I couldn't believe it she was still hungry. So I gave her some of Pipsqueak's Wellness Beef/Chicken. Pipsqueak totally refused the Lamb today - I even resorted to Fancy Feast as a topping - NOPE. So he ate 1/2 5 oz. can of Wellness Beef/Chicken - hungry little man. I decided to try Dr. Pierson's trick and will pick up some Temptation treats. I don't know why I didn't think of this before - but I could make little pea-sized balls of raw and roll them in crushed Temptation treats . Pip LOVE those treats. BUT I have not purchased them since his chin acne from last summer. BUT I will definitely try them for getting him to eat the raw. He is a touch one. I will not worry myself or worry him. He will eat and at least he is not getting hardly any kibbles anymore either. SO that is a huge progress right there I am happy about that.

I am also waiting on the Whole Life treats to arrive for Pipsqueak. Hopefully he will love those treats. I am out of Halo and Perla was very disappointed this morning.... hopefully those treats will come in too.

Thanks !!!!!! Yeah - Lucky gives me hope for Pipsqueak. - I am not sure what day we are on though. If it takes 35 days or 135 days - we won't give up!!!!! I picked up the Temptation treats today AND the Whole Life Chicken came in too. AND he likes them It takes some convincing with this one - and after he pushed the treat around on the floor for ten minutes - YES - he is that ODD - he ate it. Of course during that ten minutes - the dog's kept snatching a piece so I had to keep replacing it I had to try to keep the other cat's at bay and away from the task at hand - getting Pip to eat the darn treat. I won't give him too much food at bedtime. So he will be good and hungry tomorrow morning at breakfast - I will push the Lamb again and make tiny pea size treats for him. What a PIA.... and extra work LOL - but hope it works. Feeding all of these "pets" at my house takes me forever in the morning now. The ferals have to wait a bit longer for their breakfast too.....

Dinner went extremely well . 75% S&C Lamb - 25% Core. I used the last of the Halo powder in the container for Perla's dinner - she licked her plate clean. All the boys - well the four "good" boys cleaned their plates. The ONE "odd ball" had NV rabbit for dinner. I only have six medallions left That order had better come in tomorrow at the store - I will get two bags of the NV rabbit IF they get it. I am hoping that Pipsqueak likes the NV Chicken and really hoping for introduction of the Primal Turkey. Pip loves turkey - but I won't be introducing that until after the NV chicken.

I have to tell you guys something very funny about Pipsqueak. Today at lunch - just for a snack by hand - I offered up some NV Venison to Presley, Walden and Wendall - the ones who tolerate the Venison. Pipsqueak came running up all excited to see what wonderful treat I was doling out. WELL to his dismay and disgust - it was the forbidden Venison . He took one sniff and then made a dramatic "gag" reflex. He had me in stitches. He walked away - all the while turning back to give me a dirty look. He did do this gag reflex once before but not this dramatic. Of course, I would not offer him the Venison again, it makes him very ill and he hates it anyway. I will not keep that in the rotation

Later tonight I will offer the freeze-dried Lamb for the bedtime snack. It has been working really well in place of the dry - but not for Pip.....

Tomorrow morning it will be Lamb 100% My first 100% protein!!! I will have a lot of topping's to offer - just in case.

Oh How funny..... YES.... lucky me ..... One of each. Certainly makes life exciting

Quick breakfast update Just about 100% Lamb today and a little extra Fortiflora and wet food needed. The cats are very, very sick of Lamb. AND Presley picked up on the "covering the stink" too He was taken back that it was LAMB AGAIN..... ...... Then he proceeded to go over to Perla's bowl and cover WHILE she was eating. I quickly shooed him away as she has ADD when it comes to eating and he almost blew her morning meal . I had to give him some GO grain free wet to get him started and to stay focused on his bowl only. I needed a lot of Fortiflora to get him to finish. Perla did get disrupted after Presley's intrusion so I had to use quite a bit of crushed Halo for the to get her to refocus on her plate. Such a project FIVE of my cats are all 100% adjusted to Lamb now WE CAN MOVE ON!!!!!. I say five because the sixth one - is a real PAIN in momma's behind. I spent extra time making teeny little balls covered in Temptations for Pipsqueak. WELL........ he went nuts with his face in the bowl and proceeded to push around the little balls one by one and licked off all the Temptation Treat topping and did not eat ONE piece of raw. I should have video taped it - I was in AWE and how meticulous he was, quite a feat. He ended up eating 1/2 can of GO grain-free wet food. I will do what I can where Pip is concerned and just keep on tryin' Tomorrow I start with NV Chicken. I am hopeful that Pip will enjoy that one I don't blame him - the Lamb has a gross smell to it.

Overall - I am very pleased with five of my six cats during this transition. And now with a good plan in tact of how to do proper intros ( Carolina), I don't plan on having the same troubles I did the last two week's.

WOW!!!! THANK YOU!!!! Thanks to your detailed instructions - I am well on my way and totally understand how important proper introductions are



RIGHT!!!! Five out of six is pretty darn good It has actually been pretty easy with the other's - but I really think Lamb is out - they are SOOOOO sick of it