Started them on raw tonight :D - Page 9

I REALLY hope it doesn't come to that.

OK. Dinner was not exciting. It was 50% NV lamb with 50% Primal Turkey. Shel with a lot of encouragement (crumbled dried beef liver) ate 0.8 oz; Tux ate 0.7 oz; Spook didn't eat any. Even Billy needed some encouragement to finish his. I didn't even bother giving Ming Loy the NV lamb - she got NV chicken. Broke out the Wellness turkey & salmon.

Total Dinner Intake:

Lazlo 1.72 oz
Shel 2.10 oz
Tux 1.37 oz
Spook 1.33 oz
Flowerbelle 0.63 oz (!!)

TOTAL DAILY INTAKE (2/9/12, Thursday)

Lazlo 5.15 oz
Shel 5.46 oz
Tux 4.34 oz
Spook 4.74 oz
Flowerbelle 2.98 oz

No, I don't think so.

Well, it's sunny and getting warmer, and it's going to be SOOOOOO cold this weekend. So if we don't go today, I'm not sure when we would. I'm not sure Gary's going to be up to it. I haven't asked about it yet. We'll see....

************************

Well, breakfast was a flop. NV chicken. Chum, Bill, and Ming Loy, of course, did fine. Lazlo ate pretty well, considering. Shel took a fair amount of fussing to get a little less than 1/2 an ounce in him. Spooky ate very little and threw it up. But she doesn't have a fever, and was running around with Bill a few minutes later... again, just keeping an eye on her for now.

I broke out Wellness chicken. Everyone had a couple of licks - that was it. Then I remembered I've still got S&C dehydrated chicken (I don't know why I keep forgetting about it!). So I rehydrated some. Shel, Tux, and Spook each ate 0.20 oz of that. Flowerbelle had 0.1 ounce - but all of her 0.1 ounces add up.

Lazlo 0.95 oz
Shel 0.61 oz
Tux 0.90 oz
Spook 0.57 oz
Flowerbelle 0.30 oz

I finally remembered to take some VE chicken out of the freezer.

Flowerbelle, I suspect, is just a light eater. It may be she's always eaten so little - I never weighed it before. She's definitely always eaten very little at any one time. And I have to keep picking up her bowl, and putting it back down in front of her every few minutes to get her to eat as much as she is. But this is not only with the raw - it's with everything. Like I've noted before... she would prefer to have free-fed kibble, so she can eat 3-5 pieces at a time, like all the time.

Of course, it's Friday afternoon and Spooky threw up lunch - and Dr. Summers is gone for the day. She otherwise seems fine, has no fever... but it was 2? 3? days ago she was hiding under the bed and didn't want food - and then threw up yesterday, and now twice today.

Lunch was 50% NV lamb and 50% Primal turkey. Spook wouldn't touch it. I rehydrated WL chicken for her. She didn't want that. I opened a can of Wellness chicken & herring, and that's what she ate and subsequently threw up.

Everyone else (of the picky eaters) ate about 3/4 of their raw meal, and I split the WL chicken between the four of them, and then everyone had some canned.

Lazlo 1.78 oz
Shel 1.75 oz
Tux 2.03 oz
Spooky 0.35 oz
Flowerbelle 0.82 oz.

I don't know why I thought Spook threw up yesterday - she didn't. Yesterday she was fine. In fact - that's part of what's so confusing about all of this.

I went back through my meal notes and this thread. Spooky went off her appetite on Sunday night. Now - each day she's eaten basically enough food - but a lot of the days it was basically all in one meal. Monday and Tuesday she mostly hid under the bed. And Spooky WAS one of my "reliable" raw eaters - loved it, ate the whole portion given to her - needed no toppers. Until Sunday. Then she really didn't want raw any longer, and she's eaten mostly canned. Maybe 0.20 oz of raw at a meal here and there. Wednesday she was back out and about, and seemed fine, though didn't really want to eat. She ate a bunch after the late night meal that night, and ended up eating a good amount for the day (again!).

Thursday she seemed completely fine. Came for meals, ate at meals, Enjoyed the fresh lamb at lunch. She did have some canned, but was eating more raw than she had been most of the week. Then this morning... she ate a little raw, some canned, and threw up breakfast. Ate only canned at lunch, and threw up lunch. I would have taken her to the vet, but Dr. Summers is out, and the only vet there this afternoon I cannot stand. I had to pick up Lazlo's anti-nausea med, so did chat with her. To her it sounds more like a mild virus than food related: no fever, no dehydration, no diarrhea... just inappetance and then vomiting. She suggested 1/2 a pepcid a/c and bland food. So I gave Spook 1/2 pepcid a/c at about 4:30pm. I was going to wait until 8 or 9 to feed her - but she came for dinner and wanted food! So I gave her boiled chicken and rice. She ate 1.35 oz. About five minutes after dinner, she threw up! But this time it was just a very little bit. But then she wandered around trying to chew on weird things. She threw up two more times, about 15 - 20 minutes apart. Both times she threw up very little.

So, of course I'm upset we didn't take her this morning. But this pattern is just so strange. It occurred to me that maybe she's constipated. The NV has a high bone content, and that's pretty much all they've been eating. All the poop in the box LOOKS normal - but unless I see someone straining.. how would I know? We're debating about whether to take her in tomorrow to get an x-ray and blood work. I feel like it's kind of a waste to see the vet we don't like (and she's probably the one on tomorrow, being the Jr. on the totem pole). But for xrays and blood work...

I guess we'll just see how she does on the bland diet for a little while here.

********************************

Dinner. NV chicken and cut up fresh chicken breast. The boys ate the chicken breast, and left most of the NV chicken. Even Billy and Chumley left a bunch of their NV chicken! I just didn't have enough to give everyone the chicken as a meal, because I need it for Spooky. And she seemed to really enjoy (see above) the boiled chicken and rice.

Lazlo 0.54 oz
Shel 1.85 oz (He ate the cut up chicken that Lazlo and Flowerbelle didn't want to eat, though Laz ate most of his)
Tux 1 oz
Spooky 1.35 oz (boiled chicken & rice)
Flowerbelle 0.90 oz

OK, Spooky did the same thing this morning. She was hungry, showed up for breakfast. I made her boiled chicken with a little rice. She ate it all (1.3 oz). About 5 min later, shew threw up a little. Then 10 minutes later, a little bit more. Called the vet, I didn't care who was on. Turns out a vet we like - in fact, the last one to see Spooky almost a year ago, is on today. She goes in today at 3:40pm for an exam, likely x-ray, and blood work.

Everyone else had turkey or Chicken. They all ate well. Flowerbelle likes turkey, she ate all of her breakfast!

OK. I'll catch up on the few meals here.

BUT... Spooky is off to the vet this afternoon. THANKFULLY one of the vets we really like IS, in fact, on today!! We're there with Spooky at 3:50pm. I decided not to offer her anything at the late night meal. But she was HUNGRY at breakfast. I have her boiled chicken & rice... and she threw up, twice. Again - just a little each time. But that was IT.

*************************************

Late night meal 2/10/12 (Friday)

50% VE chicken, 50% primal turkey

Lazlo 1.3 oz
Shel 0.78 oz
Tux 0.85 oz
Flowerbelle 0.71 oz

Tux and Flowerbelle like the turkey better than the chicken (put them side-by-side rather than mixing).
Shel liked the chicken better than the turkey (in fact, I don't think he liked the turkey much LOL).

***************************************
2/11/2012 Saturday Breakfast

Fresh cut up chicken breast for Laz, Shel, & Tux
Primal turkey only for everyone else
Spooky got boiled chicken & rice. She only threw up a little of it but... we're off to the vet in a few

Lazlo 0.52 oz
Shel 1.05 oz (Shel ate ALL of his LOL)
Tux 0.70 oz
Spook 1.20 oz
Flowerbelle 0.80 oz (she ate ALL of her turkey!)

*******************************************

2/11/2012 Saturday Lunch

50% VE chicken / 50% Primal Turkey
Spooky got no food

Lazlo 0.95 oz
Shel 1.23oz (Got mostly chicken)
Tux 1.25oz (Got mostly turkey)
Flowerbelle 0.44 oz (Got more turkey than chicken)

Spooky's Vet Visit

OK! Veeeeery interesting!

Because I hadn't seen Dr. Clegg with any of the kitties for a while, I started at the beginning LOL. Rescued Chumley, chronic diarrhea, allergies - Dr. Summers hit a dead end, went to other vet up in Newton, he had same recs Dr. Summers did... prescription diet didn't help, metro, etc. didn't stop diarrhea... so we thought about going to holistic vet. Dr. Summers said it couldn't hurt. Saw Dr. Cheng, her herbal prescription stopped Chum's diarrhea in four days, and had his allergies on the road to recovery inside of two weeks.

Dr. Clegg was impressed. I said - my conclusion? Western medicine does not do well with immune-system problems, and where Western Meds fail, Chinese medicine can work. She said she can totally believe that. I told her Dr. Chen asked about his diet. When I said combo kibble/wet, she lectured me about kibble, and said that there is absolutely no reason under the sun any cat should be on kibble. Dr. Clegg got it immediately - the carb content.

Now - interestingly, the last time Dr. Clegg saw Spook was October 2010 (I thought it was Jan 2011), when Spook had her dental. And we switched to all wet in November 2010.

I told her about the switch to raw - and she was REALLY interested. So I walked her through all of it. I am 100% sure Dr. Clegg is going to be doing some research on raw.

Anyway - she examined Spooky. I walked her through everything that's happened the past week. We did x-ray and full blood work. She saw 2 stones in her bladder, so took urine for urinalysis and culture. Results will not be back until Tuesday (because today is Saturday).

Here is the conclusion:

This is not a virus. No fever, do diarrhea, no signs of illness (other than vomiting) at all.
This is not the food. She was FINE on raw, and no other cats having a problem - VERY unlikely it's the food.
It MAY be related to constipation. She wouldn't think Spooky is constipated from the amount of stool in her colon, but can't tell how hard it would be for her to pass, so that's a VERY slight possibility. BUT - she is not blocked up in the small intestine, which is where it would need to be to be the cause of her throwing up. She suggested trying a little Miralax - may not be necessary, but can't hurt.

She can't figure out why she'd be vomiting.

But she saw something in the analysis of this past week's events I did not. The problems started when I started feeding some canned food again (Sunday morning, my first "lazy" morning!). And even though Spook was turning her nose up at the raw, so I was feeding her canned - it could very well be her body already adjusted to the raw, but canned is what still smells familiar, so if she wasn't feeling so hot in the tummy, she ate what smelled familiar, not what her body likes. She suggested I put her on an anti-nausea med (same one Laz takes) for four days. Keep her on the pepcid for now (anti-nausea in the am before breakfast, pepcid at night between dinner and late night meal), and give her only the raw. Don't worry about how much she eats for now - just so long as she eats at least a little at each meal. Worry about total consumption after a few days.

**********
Other Spooky vet visit news. The x-ray revealed two stones in her bladder. Small. Not so large she couldn't pass them, but very unlikely she will, as it's just hit or miss as to whether they make their way out. They're so small, they've clearly been developing for less than a year. I pointed out she's not been on kibble at all since November 2010 - could it be they formed before then - and have just been rattling around in there? She said that is actually the most likely case. While she would normally recommend surgery to remove them so they don't keep growing... since she's been on canned and now raw, IF they were formed before... it may not be an issue at all. They took urine for a urinalysis - if there are crystals, they'd most likely (though not always) be the same type. If they're struvite, we can use an acidifier temporarily to see if we can dissolve them. If they're calcium oxalate, then... if they're not bothering her, go back for x-rays in a couple of months. See if they're growing. If they're growing, we have them surgically removed. If they're not growing... we decide whether to leave them or not.



***************

Spooky weighed 10 pounds 14 ounces (10.9 pounds). She'd lost one pound since October 2010. Dr. Clegg was VERY happy. Said she could stand to lose some more weight - but not urgent. She's looking really good.
Edited by LDG - 2/11/12 at 6:25pm

So, we got home just in time for dinner.

I prepped NV lamb and Primal Turkey.

Tuxie ate 2/3 of an ounce and wanted more. So I have him a half ounce chunk of chicken - not cut up. It took him a while, but he ate it!

2/11/12 (Saturday) Dinner Intake:

Lazlo 1.45 oz
Shel 1.45 oz
Tux 1.14 oz
Spook 0.66 oz
Flowerbelle 1.26 oz

And Spooky kept dinner down. (And I hadn't given her anti-nausea med yet LOL).

But since I have now been reassured about Lazlo's weight, Tuxie's weight, and Spooky's weight... and Shel's been eating like a pig this last week... the only one I'm slightly concerned about is Flowerbelle, and we'll find out where she stands on Wednesday (blood pressure/heart murmur follow-up)... I think no more canned food. If they don't eat enough at the meal, they can eat at the next one.

I'll just have to incorporate more fresh meat if they're not eating enough of the NV or whatever. I KNOW they need organs and bones... but until I get a freezer, it'll just have to do. They LIKE it. So I'm not risking upset tummies with this back-and-forth with the canned any longer. I know it works for most kitties. But with what's just gone on with Spooky... I don't want to risk it.

BTW, one last observation. I added no water to the food tonight. Spook had a little bit of trouble, so I just used my fingers to pull it apart and leave it as small lumps in her bowl. Those she was able to eat just fine. Flowerbelle I ended up having to add water.

...and I forgot to give Spook the miralax, so I'll do that at the late night meal.

Actually, Dr. Clegg and I are both pretty interested to see what happens to those stones over the next couple of months. And like you, she suggested that maybe THEY were bothering Spooky - and then moved around, and stopped bothering her. Her bladder wall is not thickened, not inflamed... but if she were in pain, it might also explain the hiding under the bed Mon/Tues. Of course - could simply have been upset tummy too.

I'll just follow her plan and see what happens.

The most impressive thing was that someone unfamiliar with raw was so open to it, and didn't want to jump on it - in fact - was the one who figured out the only real connection to Spooky's upset tummy at the outset was the canned!

Of course - you suggested to stop feeding her canned, too, Carolina.

Yeah, Dr. Clegg suggested she might have been not feeling well (and vomiting) from pain. But she says the stones are small and it was unlikely... but you never know.

Dinner.... got all out of control. Gary had some issues, so I couldn't police Billy. I have no idea how much anyone ate except Spook. Shel's bowl was empty, but Billy was finishing it off. I suspect Bill ate most of it, because Shel had NV lamb and Primal Turkey, and isn't a big fan of either.

I put Spook's miralax in NV chicken. I used the chub, because it's much juicier than the medallions. She didn't want it. So I gave her little lumps of lamb, and she wanted those. She only ate 0.30 oz, but I'm OK with that. I had to toss her NV chicken - I didn't want anyone else (including the ferals) to get the stool softener.

I took out a total of 11 ounces of food, and had 4 left, that's all I know otherwise.

If anyone's hungry... they're waiting until tomorrow morning.

Laz and Spook got their pepcid earlier.

OK - Spooky IS constipated. I watched her go into the box, dig, then NOT poop, and leave (and she peed earlier).

I didn't get any miralax into her last night, because she didn't eat the food with the miralax in it. I may have to syringe feed her pumpkin, but I'm a little worried about making her vomit. Might risk it, we'll see what happens. This morning she ate about 2/3 of her food, so I assume she got about 2/3 of the miralax.

Sunday breakfast:

NV chicken & Primal Turkey. Spooky got NV Lamb only. Tux ate all of his; Shel ate about half an ounce. So I busted out the fresh chicken. Laz didn't want any, nor did Spook or Flowerbelle. Shelly ate a little over an ounce, and Tux about 0.35 of an ounce. The little piggies (Billy, Chum, and Ming Loy) were happy to split the other about 1.5 oz I'd gotten ready. Billy was such a nudge about it, I turned my back for a second, and SOMEHOW the plate got pushed off the cat tree and broke. :rolleyes Fortunately there was no chicken left on it or he probably would have been trying to eat chicken with bits of broken plate before I got to it.

Lazlo 0.93 oz
Shel 1.46 oz
Tux 1.48 oz
Spook 0.67 oz
Flowerbelle 0.55 oz

Sheldon, now a carnivore!

Since they're all tired of the commercial stuff, we purchased turkey and lamb at the store today.

Lunch today was mixed.

It was Vital Essentials chicken. Tux and Laz additionally had NV lamb; Spooky had only NV lamb (but didn't eat that), and Shel got cut up fresh chicken (see above. ).

Lazlo 1.60 oz
Shel 2.0 oz
Tux 0.67 oz
Spook 0.2 oz
Flowerbelle 1.16 oz

Dinner: fresh lamb shoulder & chop. They were all given an ounce. Spooky only ate 0.20 oz, but everyone else emptied the bowls. They were all looking at me like they wanted more, so I cut up 3 oz of turkey for them.

2/12 (Sunday) dinner intake:

Lazlo 1.35oz
Shel 1.65 oz
Tux 1.35 oz
Spooky 0.70 oz
Flowerbelle 1.20 oz

Billy, Ming Loy, and Chumley would have gorged themselves.

Well, this morning wasn't a hit. They really don't like the Primal Turkey. In fact - I don't think they really like ground with bone-in. They like meat, so I need to get that freezer so we can work on moving to frankenprey.

BUT... it is what it is.

So this morning I gave them Primal Turkey OR NV chicken. I was so out of it this morning, I put the bowls down before I weighed them. But here's a synoposis LOL:

Lazlo - ate about 1/3 of his turkey
Shel - ate about 1/3 of the turkey
Tuxie - ate maybe 1/4 of his turkey
Spooky - ate about 1/3 of her turkey (with miralax mixed in. She still hasn't pooped).
Flowerbelle - ate most of her turkey (of course I removed the bowl from the bathroom a few times and put it back down in front of her).

So I cut up the rest of the organic chicken for Shel & Tux. There was 2.25 oz of that, they split it.
I cut up close to 3 oz of turkey for Lazlo, Spooky, and Flowerbelle. They all ate some - I ended up giving about 3/4 of an ounce of turkey to the ferals with their breakfast.

I contacted Hare-Today to ask about the bone content (%) in the grinds. Well - I asked in general what the percent of meat/bones/organs is.

My freezer is low on cat food. Since Jim seems to have trouble getting things actually IN that we order, I may just order the grinds and supplements from Hare Today. The cats TOTALLY prefer the juiciness of chubs to medallions or patties, and I'll save money. We'll see. Of course... because I'd be adding the supplement myself, if the bone content is too high, I can just continue doing what I have been - thinning out the prepared stuff with muscle meat I buy.

Well, no poop from Spook yet!

I did hear back from Hare Today - and posted in Carolina's thread, and posted in the Commercial Raw thread. Basically they grind the entire animals, so the meat/bone/organ mix is "as nature intended." Can't beat that! I also like that - as there's probably actually a little bit less bone per meat than in a mouse - but calcium:phosphorous ratio will be correct. LOVE IT!

NOW...... new thing happening with feeding my cats.

I decided that I need to move them to three meals a day. It will make life more flexible for Gary and I - I won't need to worry about errands/meetings/NYC during the days, and I won't feel like all I'm doing all day is feeding the cats. They needed the four meals a day when we transitioned from free-feeding kibble - but most of them are eating enough at each meal already for just three meals a day.

So...... about 1.5 hours after lunch would have been, I gave them a few treats. I figured their tummies were producing acid in anticipation. And no one has been complaining!

I also took Carolina's advice for Spooky... feed her a meal of organs to help get things moving. I have dried beef liver treats (one of my main toppers - I just crush a little on top to get them going). So I rehydrated some. Total was 0.70 oz - mostly water LOL. But she LOVED it! So hopefully that will help get things moving!

So... no lunch today!