Well, as some of you know from Carolina's thread, I've been trying to figure out the logistics on at least starting my little carnivores on some raw meals, if not how to feed a completely raw diet. Carolina and AC, of course, are convinced we'll go 100% once we see how well they do on it. 
But living in the RV with a fridge/freezer that is TOTAL 7 cubic feet - and the freezer a SMALL portion of that... and 8 cats fed four times a day... the logistics seemed a bit daunting, even if 100% commercial raw. :lol3: As we'll keep 2-3 days of raw in fridge either thawed or dethawing, keeping weekly food here shouldn't be SUCH a challenge. However, affordability is also a factor. :nod:
My cats are not big eaters. First of all, most of them are seniors now ( ), and let's face it - even though they do a lot of leaping, even when they're running around playing, our home is 37 feet long inside. :lol3: But they each eat 3-4 ounces of canned food a day. That's deceptive, though, because of the "kibble factor." 
But on a wet food basis, I have to assume the 8 of them will need a total of 1.5 to 2 pounds of raw food a day. That's 11-14 pounds per week - and our freezer, when we don't make any ice (which we really can't forgo LOL) holds 30 pounds of meat. :lol3: (The old fridge, which we had to replace this summer, used to hold 40. But this is configured differently. ).
So right now, they're basically on an all canned diet. Lazlo, Tuxedo, and Flowerbelle were the kibble hold-outs. I've managed to basically whittle kibble down to "treats" for Flowerbelle and Tuxedo - though some days it does make up as much as 20% of their food :anon: , but overall really just treat status. (The other kitties don't get kibbles even as treats). Tuxie has lost a pound in the last two months in our battle of the wills over kibble. He's at his ideal weight now - and losing some more weight, because he's really been on a wet food boycott the last few days.
Lazlo, however.... Lazlo has been battling cancer with us since it was diagnosed late July. He was so sick, it was "feed him anything he'll eat." He wanted kibble. And kibble was his "cheese danish" (re: Momofmany's Love & Cheese Danish approach in working with terminally ill pets). Now that we have one chemo treatment left to go, we have a happy, healthy-feeling (he still has the cancer) VERY spoiled kitty. So I hesitate to remove the kibble from our home altogether. Yet Flowerbelle and Tuxedo KNOW it's here, which makes their wet food fussiness difficult. And I know the kibble is not good for Lazlo.
Our holistic vet feeds her own animals (home made) raw, so is a big proponent. Our best vet is not against it. He has a number of people feeding raw, and hasn't seen any problems (yet, knock wood), and says the animals seem to do really well on it. Our regular vet is interested to see what's going to happen. :lol3: One thing they all want to see is that we at least start with the commercial raws that are pathogen free. The chemo is a major immunosuppressant, as is the pred Lazlo's on, and Chumley has FIV.
Chumley's been on a human dose of probiotics since he came here (it's what worked for him). The others I started on probiotics... about two weeks ago? in anticipation of at least finding some raw somewhere at some point LOL. And Flowerbelle finished a 20-day course of doxycycline about 1.5 weeks ago, so it was imperative for her to have healthy gut flora restored.
********
Well, as it turns out, sourcing even commercial raw has been an issue. I've been calling around, and all I'd been able to find is Nature's Variety. I feed the kitties wet food rotationally, and after all the research I've done on commercial, there is NO WAY I'm feeding just one brand. It is simply (IMO), not enough to rotate proteins within a brand: rotating brands is a must because of the varying bone & organ content. I really get the advantage of preparing your own: control. :nod:
But, we're starting commercial, and we'll see what happens - and when, or if, we go 100% raw. The good news is - we found a "local" pet store that carries Nature's Variety, Stella & Chewy's, Bravo, and Vital Essences! Only NV and S&C are pathogen-free. But he can order anything we want. Anything.
He used to carry Primal (the poultry is pathogen free guaranteed), but their cost went up so much, people stopped buying it, so he stopped carrying it. He didn't have any of the NV chubs (the least expensive raw of the pathogen-free alternatives), and he was out of the S&C frozen. But at least I'm assured we'll be able access and thus rotate all of them!
Now - Gary and I know Jim for many years. Since we first started rescuing, actually, 10 years ago. And boy did we feel TERRIBLE. We drive past his pet store to get to the place we've been shopping for our canned, and we will ALWAYS use a local store over a chain store if we can. Always. We thought he'd sold the place. The last time we were there, the kid in the store thought there was a new owner, and it had completely changed. In fact, there were very few cat or dog products, and it was mostly aquarium stuff. So when we moved back into the area in 2008, we didn't stop in. We could have been saving ourselves apparently a chunk of money - and giving him the business over the stupid chain store. He charges on average $0.40 less PER CAN of the foods we buy. He doesn't have the whole range of things we've been using... but he could get them.
The bottom line is we caught up on life, we left the store with a 6 pound bag of NV rabbit patties, and he gave us a several (wouldn't let us pay :heart3: ) trial sample bags of NV chicken and Vital Essences. I didn't look at what it was... it's chicken.
I've now got 3-4 days of raw here, depending upon how much I'll need to feed them daily. We left the store with a week's worth of food (3-4 days which is raw food), and we spent about $30 - $40 less than we would normally spend! And we can head over there as often as we need to - he's only 20 minutes or so away. Everything we need to do is "about 20 minutes away" LOL, so no biggie.
*********
MEAL TIME!
We got home about 4:30. I took out two of the NV rabbit patties. They're 8 oz. each. I put one in a ziplock bag in cold water to dethaw faster for dinner-time dinner. At that meal, I heated it up a little by taking a large 1/4 of the patty and warming it up to room temp by putting it in another ziplock bag in warm water (stuck the rest back in the fridge). I don't measure anything precisely - I just targeted giving them 1/3 raw with 2/3 canned. Some worked out to about 50/50. (I collect leftovers, put them in a paper bowl, and feed it to the ferals).
Billy, Chumley, and Ming Loy, my little piggies, ate the raw first and then the canned. Spooky and Shel just ate it all. That was a little surprising - because Shel doesn't usually finish what I put in his bowl. (I have to struggle to keep Billy out of Shelly's bowl LOL). Lazlo was the real surprise! He ate the rabbit first, and then the canned!
Flowerbelle and Tuxedo, as expected, were my fussy eaters. I sprinkled Tuxedo's with some Halo chicken (which I also picked up this afternoon), and that got him going. Flowerbelle - well - I wish I'd had the camera. I sprinkled hers with Halo after that worked for Tuxie. She'd eaten a little. Her problem wasn't the raw or that it was rabbit - she's just fussy. (She also gets distracted really easily, so she gets fed alone in the bathroom LOL). So I crush some Halo on there - and she leans down to sniff at it - and pulls her head back like I put poison on there or something. The expression on her face was absolutely priceless! 
SNACK TIME
Now... the issue with kibble for Lazlo and Flowerbelle is not so much that they're addicted to kibble. It's that they do NOT like timed meals. The move to timed meals completely stressed out Lazlo, and personally I think it resulted in his bleeding ulcers, which probably resulted in his cancer. For Tuxie, it's an addiction to kibble AND a resistance to timed meals. (They had access to free feeding kibbles for ... 8 years?)
Lazlo wanted more food after dinner. Normally I let him have some kibbles. This evening, because Tux and Flowerbelle didn't eat much, I opened a can of Evo. When Laz was done (I feed him non-meal food in the bathroom), I offered it to Tux, who dug in. That was a happy thing, because he's had about 4 oz of food over the past two days (we're having a battle of the wills over kibble right now :lol3: ). When he was done, I offered it to Flowerbelle, who also ate a nice chunk. BUT... that left 1/2 a can for the ferals.
When Lazlo popped by an hour later, I took a spoonful of the raw rabbit out of the fridge. I added a little warm water so it wasn't fridge cold, and gave that to him instead of kibble. He dug right in. Tuxie thought Laz was eating kibble, so he was waiting at the bathroom door when Laz was done. :lol3: So I did the same for him... and he chowed. :bigthumb:
The lesson here? Snacks of non-kibble are really easy with raw.
******
So my little carnivores did really well! I expected them too, because they've been on canned (mostly). My piggies are piggies and not fussy. The kitties that aren't fussy and aren't piggies didn't have a problem with it (well, at least with eating it. Shel, who has the most sensitive stomach, didn't throw up, so that's good!). And my two fussy kids were, as expected, fussy. :lol3: (though really, I did kind of think Tuxie would take to raw like a fish to water. :dk: ). But apparently they would be fussy with anything.
I don't want to go to quickly for their tummies. But so far so good! :cross:
But living in the RV with a fridge/freezer that is TOTAL 7 cubic feet - and the freezer a SMALL portion of that... and 8 cats fed four times a day... the logistics seemed a bit daunting, even if 100% commercial raw. :lol3: As we'll keep 2-3 days of raw in fridge either thawed or dethawing, keeping weekly food here shouldn't be SUCH a challenge. However, affordability is also a factor. :nod:My cats are not big eaters. First of all, most of them are seniors now (
), and let's face it - even though they do a lot of leaping, even when they're running around playing, our home is 37 feet long inside. :lol3: But they each eat 3-4 ounces of canned food a day. That's deceptive, though, because of the "kibble factor." But on a wet food basis, I have to assume the 8 of them will need a total of 1.5 to 2 pounds of raw food a day. That's 11-14 pounds per week - and our freezer, when we don't make any ice (which we really can't forgo LOL) holds 30 pounds of meat. :lol3: (The old fridge, which we had to replace this summer, used to hold 40. But this is configured differently. ).So right now, they're basically on an all canned diet. Lazlo, Tuxedo, and Flowerbelle were the kibble hold-outs. I've managed to basically whittle kibble down to "treats" for Flowerbelle and Tuxedo - though some days it does make up as much as 20% of their food :anon: , but overall really just treat status. (The other kitties don't get kibbles even as treats). Tuxie has lost a pound in the last two months in our battle of the wills over kibble. He's at his ideal weight now - and losing some more weight, because he's really been on a wet food boycott the last few days.
Lazlo, however.... Lazlo has been battling cancer with us since it was diagnosed late July. He was so sick, it was "feed him anything he'll eat." He wanted kibble. And kibble was his "cheese danish" (re: Momofmany's Love & Cheese Danish approach in working with terminally ill pets). Now that we have one chemo treatment left to go, we have a happy, healthy-feeling (he still has the cancer) VERY spoiled kitty.
So I hesitate to remove the kibble from our home altogether. Yet Flowerbelle and Tuxedo KNOW it's here, which makes their wet food fussiness difficult. And I know the kibble is not good for Lazlo. Our holistic vet feeds her own animals (home made) raw, so is a big proponent. Our best vet is not against it. He has a number of people feeding raw, and hasn't seen any problems (yet, knock wood), and says the animals seem to do really well on it. Our regular vet is interested to see what's going to happen. :lol3: One thing they all want to see is that we at least start with the commercial raws that are pathogen free. The chemo is a major immunosuppressant, as is the pred Lazlo's on, and Chumley has FIV.
Chumley's been on a human dose of probiotics since he came here (it's what worked for him). The others I started on probiotics... about two weeks ago? in anticipation of at least finding some raw somewhere at some point LOL. And Flowerbelle finished a 20-day course of doxycycline about 1.5 weeks ago, so it was imperative for her to have healthy gut flora restored.
********
Well, as it turns out, sourcing even commercial raw has been an issue. I've been calling around, and all I'd been able to find is Nature's Variety. I feed the kitties wet food rotationally, and after all the research I've done on commercial, there is NO WAY I'm feeding just one brand. It is simply (IMO), not enough to rotate proteins within a brand: rotating brands is a must because of the varying bone & organ content. I really get the advantage of preparing your own: control. :nod:
But, we're starting commercial, and we'll see what happens - and when, or if, we go 100% raw. The good news is - we found a "local" pet store that carries Nature's Variety, Stella & Chewy's, Bravo, and Vital Essences! Only NV and S&C are pathogen-free. But he can order anything we want. Anything.
He used to carry Primal (the poultry is pathogen free guaranteed), but their cost went up so much, people stopped buying it, so he stopped carrying it. He didn't have any of the NV chubs (the least expensive raw of the pathogen-free alternatives), and he was out of the S&C frozen. But at least I'm assured we'll be able access and thus rotate all of them! Now - Gary and I know Jim for many years. Since we first started rescuing, actually, 10 years ago. And boy did we feel TERRIBLE. We drive past his pet store to get to the place we've been shopping for our canned, and we will ALWAYS use a local store over a chain store if we can. Always. We thought he'd sold the place. The last time we were there, the kid in the store thought there was a new owner, and it had completely changed. In fact, there were very few cat or dog products, and it was mostly aquarium stuff. So when we moved back into the area in 2008, we didn't stop in.
We could have been saving ourselves apparently a chunk of money - and giving him the business over the stupid chain store. He charges on average $0.40 less PER CAN of the foods we buy. He doesn't have the whole range of things we've been using... but he could get them.The bottom line is we caught up on life, we left the store with a 6 pound bag of NV rabbit patties, and he gave us a several (wouldn't let us pay :heart3: ) trial sample bags of NV chicken and Vital Essences. I didn't look at what it was... it's chicken.
I've now got 3-4 days of raw here, depending upon how much I'll need to feed them daily. We left the store with a week's worth of food (3-4 days which is raw food), and we spent about $30 - $40 less than we would normally spend! And we can head over there as often as we need to - he's only 20 minutes or so away. Everything we need to do is "about 20 minutes away" LOL, so no biggie.*********
MEAL TIME!
We got home about 4:30. I took out two of the NV rabbit patties. They're 8 oz. each. I put one in a ziplock bag in cold water to dethaw faster for dinner-time dinner. At that meal, I heated it up a little by taking a large 1/4 of the patty and warming it up to room temp by putting it in another ziplock bag in warm water (stuck the rest back in the fridge). I don't measure anything precisely - I just targeted giving them 1/3 raw with 2/3 canned. Some worked out to about 50/50. (I collect leftovers, put them in a paper bowl, and feed it to the ferals).
Billy, Chumley, and Ming Loy, my little piggies, ate the raw first and then the canned. Spooky and Shel just ate it all. That was a little surprising - because Shel doesn't usually finish what I put in his bowl. (I have to struggle to keep Billy out of Shelly's bowl LOL). Lazlo was the real surprise! He ate the rabbit first, and then the canned!
Flowerbelle and Tuxedo, as expected, were my fussy eaters. I sprinkled Tuxedo's with some Halo chicken (which I also picked up this afternoon), and that got him going.
Flowerbelle - well - I wish I'd had the camera. I sprinkled hers with Halo after that worked for Tuxie. She'd eaten a little. Her problem wasn't the raw or that it was rabbit - she's just fussy. (She also gets distracted really easily, so she gets fed alone in the bathroom LOL). So I crush some Halo on there - and she leans down to sniff at it - and pulls her head back like I put poison on there or something. The expression on her face was absolutely priceless! SNACK TIME
Now... the issue with kibble for Lazlo and Flowerbelle is not so much that they're addicted to kibble. It's that they do NOT like timed meals. The move to timed meals completely stressed out Lazlo, and personally I think it resulted in his bleeding ulcers, which probably resulted in his cancer.
For Tuxie, it's an addiction to kibble AND a resistance to timed meals. (They had access to free feeding kibbles for ... 8 years?)Lazlo wanted more food after dinner. Normally I let him have some kibbles. This evening, because Tux and Flowerbelle didn't eat much, I opened a can of Evo. When Laz was done (I feed him non-meal food in the bathroom), I offered it to Tux, who dug in. That was a happy thing, because he's had about 4 oz of food over the past two days (we're having a battle of the wills over kibble right now :lol3: ). When he was done, I offered it to Flowerbelle, who also ate a nice chunk. BUT... that left 1/2 a can for the ferals.
When Lazlo popped by an hour later, I took a spoonful of the raw rabbit out of the fridge. I added a little warm water so it wasn't fridge cold, and gave that to him instead of kibble. He dug right in. Tuxie thought Laz was eating kibble, so he was waiting at the bathroom door when Laz was done. :lol3: So I did the same for him... and he chowed. :bigthumb:
The lesson here? Snacks of non-kibble are really easy with raw.
******
So my little carnivores did really well! I expected them too, because they've been on canned (mostly). My piggies are piggies and not fussy. The kitties that aren't fussy and aren't piggies didn't have a problem with it (well, at least with eating it. Shel, who has the most sensitive stomach, didn't throw up, so that's good!). And my two fussy kids were, as expected, fussy. :lol3: (though really, I did kind of think Tuxie would take to raw like a fish to water. :dk: ). But apparently they would be fussy with anything.
I don't want to go to quickly for their tummies. But so far so good!
:cross:
and every other smiley too :lol3:.
.... Ya never know. Off to get some 
Catch ya tomorrow for day two :9: 
yey!! That's so awesome and I am SO happy you too that step!! 
I have not started my own thread :lol3: Then - I would have to commit for sure :bigmouth: BUT my cat's are all eating 50/50 raw now too with very, very little kibble anymore. 
Can't wait to here your update today!!!!!!!!!!!!! :sun: 
for some reason. I was also worried about just handling the raw meats back then. I just think people are "afraid" to take the plunge into the world of raw - they think ..... it will be too much work, don't want to handle raw meat - bacteria, etc., my cats and I will get salmonella, how will I disinfect, my vet says don't do it, and the list goes on and on with excuses. I think feeding raw for dogs and cats IS becoming more and more common these days. AND with the commercially made raw foods - it is much easier too now. We didn't have that option a few years back or if we did, it wasn't talked about much as it is now. 
Laurie for letting me share :heart3: :heart3: :sun: :sun: :heart3: :heart3: There is so much more I could say 
