Canned food without Carrageenan or Guar Gum?

opie catt

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 I tried my cats on the pork, it did not work out and I wondered afterward if it was due to the broth...I was trying to find something to interest an old cat ... :) Hard to understand why they would include broth in an otherwise healthy brand. We have tried most - if not all - flavors . I now buy the one flavor and have begun adding albacore tuna - or organic chicken to some dry Halo grain-free once in awhile for variety. One of the older cat's skin burns from the toxins so try to let her eat only the canned Instinct. We tried last year to buy the Pride - but that also did not work out. I noticed, too, that the Instinct 'limited ingredient' flavors had something undesirable - which was a surprise. It's been trial and error. Took awhile to settle on a good menu .... We were using Firstmate canned for awhile. They are a hard to find brand with not much variety - but worked. I would not buy the Instinct flavors with broth.....have bought [organic?] canned pork for myself - but so far have not tried it - I would rather share that with the cats [mixed into the grain-free dry] than use the strange ingredient pork cat food.    I must have been desperate at the time to even buy anything with broth - not a good idea even tho it was 'short term'. 
 

trufans

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 I tried my cats on the pork, it did not work out and I wondered afterward if it was due to the broth...I was trying to find something to interest an old cat ... :) Hard to understand why they would include broth in an otherwise healthy brand. We have tried most - if not all - flavors . I now buy the one flavor and have begun adding albacore tuna - or organic chicken to some dry Halo grain-free once in awhile for variety. One of the older cat's skin burns from the toxins so try to let her eat only the canned Instinct. We tried last year to buy the Pride - but that also did not work out. I noticed, too, that the Instinct 'limited ingredient' flavors had something undesirable - which was a surprise. It's been trial and error. Took awhile to settle on a good menu .... We were using Firstmate canned for awhile. They are a hard to find brand with not much variety - but worked. I would not buy the Instinct flavors with broth.....have bought [organic?] canned pork for myself - but so far have not tried it - I would rather share that with the cats [mixed into the grain-free dry] than use the strange ingredient pork cat food.    I must have been desperate at the time to even buy anything with broth - not a good idea even tho it was 'short term'. 
I just looked, the place we get their food from carries the FirstMate brand. It looks like they have tuna, salmon, turkey and chicken flavors. Im sure the boys will like one of these. I will give it a try! 
 

opie catt

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Yea! Know you will go over the ingredient list of each one. I buy by the case and FirstMate packages 24 to a case, Instinct only 12 - same size cans, 5.5 oz. Hope this provides a break, and if need be you can always return to Instinct.:) Looked like the FM also had the same listed ingredients in the dog food as the canned cat food....just bigger cans. :)

Let me know how it all goes...
 

einzmer

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Against the Grain Chicken & Pumpkin Samba
  • Ships in cases of 24 2.8 oz – $24.97 cans
CHICKEN, WATER SUFFICIENT FOR PROCESSING, PUMPKIN, TRICALCIUM PHOSPHATE, PALM OIL, TAPIOCA, TAURINE, XANTHAN GUM, VITAMINS (VITAMIN E SUPPLEMENT, NIACIN, VITAMIN A SUPPLEMENT, THIAMINE MONONITRATE, VITAMIN D3 SUPPLEMENT, PANTOTHENIC ACID, RIBOFLAVIN SUPPLEMENT, CHOLINE CHLORIDE, PYRIDOXINE HYDROCHLORIDE, FOLIC ACID, BIOTIN, VITAMIN B12 SUPPLEMENT), MINERALS (FERROUS SULFATE MONOHYDRATE, ZINC SULFATE HEPTAHYDRATE, MANGANESE SULFATE MONOHYDRATE, COPPER SULFATE PENTAHYDRATE, DICALCIUM PHOSPHATE, POTASSIUM IODIDE, POTASSIUM CHLORIDE, MAGNESIUM SULFATE MONOHYDRATE, SODIUM SELENITE)

I think they have 7 flavors without either ingredient. It is expensive though. It looks like you need to feed a cat 3 cans per day because each can is pretty low calorie.
 

opie catt

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It [Against the Grain] still has the gum....Xanthan Gum and neither palm oil nor tapioca are ingredients I would consider to be as healthy/toxin-free as I need... :(  
 

trufans

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I just received my order of Instinct Salmon that the boys like. It seemed a different consistency, and the boys didn't dive right in as usual. I looked at the ingredients... BROTH! When did they start this? I then looked at their other flavors, chicken, beef, etc. All have broth as the second or third ingredient. I am VERY disappointed. 
 

opie catt

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OMG! I am not surprised at the salmon, but horrified to hear it is brand-wide! I need to check my cans ...I use a case every other day or so. Thank you....will check and get back to you as soon as I can.
 

trufans

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I just checked their website, as of now only the Venison and Rabbit Instinct are broth free. I emailed them earlier today once I found out the change and asked why they changed and if the Venison will be changing also to a broth formula. I also told them how the boys won't eat it now and a week ago it was their favorite without the broth. I will update with any info I receive from them when I get it. 

As for now I had to order the First Mate turkey from amazon prime so it arrives quickly. The salmon and tuna are not available on amazon, and my regular place says it is a 7 day or longer wait for it. 
 

opie catt

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I just pulled up the ingredients of our chicken canned --- and the broth was there just like you said! I immediately cancelled all my future orders!! [$200 - $250 every month] Will have to regroup.....thanks for letting me know of your call to the company.It is too late in the evening for me to do that right now.....Do hope they don't start changing the other two even tho my cats did not like either of those flavors long term. Bad news is they have 6 months after changing the formula to get the labels changed/updated to match!!!    

So glad I had not yet started the kitten on this!!!   Thank you for the heads up.... TTYL
 

lokhismom

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I only feed NV Instinct occasionally because it doesn't seem to be a favorite of one of mine but I'm curious why is the broth an issue?
 

opie catt

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Broth is in the lists of GLUTAMATES - Think MSG, an excitotoxin. Excitotoxins 'over excite' the brain - think seizures for one thing. Find articles by Dr. Blaylock, Neurosurgeon. [video is excellent BTW]  Toxins, neurotoxins and excitotoxins cause all sorts of health issues - even death in just 9 months for a kitten.
 

opie catt

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After cancelling my future orders tonight ~ I ordered the FirstMate - dog food. Same ingredients it seems and cheaper [- I just did not have enough money for the 24 can cat food - ] because it is larger cans. The consistency can be dryer in the much larger can... but need to have something on hand if the kitten is ready for solids. Know she is tired of runny poop. :) 
 

einzmer

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Broth doesn't necessarily mean msg. When I make broth, I don't just toss chicken bouillon cubes into water and say, "I made chicken broth."

I checked the description of turkey broth in the Nature variety website: Turkey broth comes from cooking Turkey bones and/or muscles tissue with water. Turkey broth adds natural flavors and beneficial moisture.
 

2bcat

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From what I can tell in quick reading because it's new to me, the broth=MSG is a misunderstanding of that concept.  Broth alone should not be a problem.  Most of that information is focused on people, and what connects broth to MSG is that sometimes people who are sensitive to MSG will be similarly sensitive to homemade broth even though the homemade broth does not itself contain MSG directly.  To me, this does not suggest a great risk from broth in cat food, but admittedly it is a quick search.

I'd much sooner avoid carrageenan, and maybe even that is overkill.  I don't know about guar.  Right now nothing I'm feeding has guar but I have fed foods with it in the past.  I'm using the Tiki chicken which has "consomme" which to me is equivalent to broth.  Some folks are suspicious of that outfit, others not so much.  My current angle on them because of a story I heard recently about seafood is to ask Petropics about the LABOR, and ask Weruva about that as well.  (EDIT:  Weruva has a statement about it on their website.)  The Thai seafood industry is apparently full of slave labor at the actual harvest point on the boats at least.  And even though I'm only using Tiki chicken or Cats in the Kitchen chicken/turkey, I don't want to keep supporting those companies if they're not going to be conscious of the labor issues potentially in their seafood.

The real trick is if you are avoiding gums, carrageenan, broth AND excessive carbs/starches, there's effectively nothing left in commercial canned, I'm thinking.  I was surprised when I finally got my hands on cans of Lotus locally that all of their foods have potato starch and/or agar in them.  This is yet another possible reason to avoid, although the shop owner in this place, a newer shop where she very carefully chooses everything, was really high on the Lotus.

It's a tricky balance it seems to me when navigating among company transparency, production processes, company owned or contracted canning plant, ingredient sourcing, what is actually in the food, etc.  Not to mention cost.

My current thinking is that it is good to be as informed as possible but it is ok to make compromise choices that may not reach the absolute ideal.
 
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opie catt

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IF that is their only ingredients in broth than why not list them as such?  Too iffy for some owners [me]. Do I trust pet food manufactures to be forthcoming? Not since 2007! Thanks for the info. Will do more research....TTYL
 

2bcat

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Sometimes compromise is not an option. 
Sometimes it is the only reasonable choice.  Personally, I am working harder than most  (most of the general pet feeding population, maybe not most of the readers of this thread) to get to what I think are fairly ideal food choices for my cats.  I think in the end it's going to involve some homemade stuff, although probably not homemade raw.  But anyway, at the moment I can do that with little to no regard to the cost of everything.  I'd much rather see people compromise on food because of costs, availability, whatever and keep their pets.  Maybe it's possible to reach all ideals at low cost, but it doesn't seem likely.  At some point going down the scale, lower cost foods are going to start with lower cost ingredient, and not everyone has the time or inclination to make food at home (which may also come out lower cost than many commercial foods).
Personally I'm going to dig more.  That piece doesn't cite any supporting info, just states all those things as fact.  That doesn't mean it's wrong, it just means that one article written on one web site doesn't explain what is going on.  The piece I read yesterday about broth and glutamine/glutamate and possible reactions by MSG-sensitive people was much more detailed, but I still wouldn't trust that as my only source in something like this.  

As always one can choose to err on the side of extreme caution and upend their established feeding regimens based on this thin info.  Which isn't to say that there isn't something to it.  It's just that what I've read so far does not lead me to that kind of extreme measure.  I think it warrants attempting to understand the entire issue with good reasoning behind it rather than jumping to react to alarmist info with little to support it.

Believe me, I don't trust most food manufacturers any farther than I could throw a whole case of their cans.  In the end, we each have to do what we are comfortable with.  And some of those choices might be made on shaky information.  I'm not convinced of my carrageenan info really, but I've been unable to buy any product where I see that on the label despite any direct recommendations of store owners or such.  It's something else I will read more about.  So I get why you are jumping on anything that seems remotely like it might be harmful.  I'm just not convinced this is even a problem with broth though.
 
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opie catt

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When the life of one's pet is at stake there is no such thing as "extreme caution" ! You can ignore and down play any information, your choice. It is a deadly chance you are taking, and trying to convince others to ignore factual info is ill-advised at best. 
 

2bcat

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When the life of one's pet is at stake there is no such thing as "extreme caution" ! You can ignore and down play any information, your choice. It is a deadly chance you are taking, and trying to convince others to ignore factual info is ill-advised at best. 
When any factual info about this issue is actually posted here, then you can accuse me of trying to convince people to ignore it.  And I will still point out that it isn't at all what I am doing.  I don't think people should ignore it, and I'm not even personally ignoring it.  I'm suggesting people do thorough research well beyond links that are posted here so far.  Because such research takes a lot of time, more than I have during the work day, I haven't been able to do any myself yet.

Not immediately acting on every little thing posted on the internet by anyone regardless of background or qualification is not the same thing as ignoring it.  Once I am able to do a little research I will share it here.
 
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