Is It Possible for Mommy Just to bring them to Me to Feed?

About a month ago I started feeding what appeared to be homeless cats - still not so sure. I am feeding them outside my front door in my little courtyard.

One started coming frequently, even showing up early to get her food.  The way she was eating I figured that she was either pregnant, or nursing.

December 30 or 31st,  when I looked out the window there were two kittens with her.

January 1, 2012 - there was a sound under my bedroom window, and there they were.

She had brought them to our side yard - protected with a block wall and gate. 

I was able to open the side garage door - she was there to watch me put out more food, including raw chicken as I found was her favorite.

Now it would be easier to feed her, and her two kittens, safely away from other cats, etc..

Now, I planned, I feel good about trapping her knowing that her kittens are safe behind backyard walls and gates while their mommy recovered from surgery.

January 2, 2012 - The first I saw them when I got up was a little surprising - #3 was now here. Guess that's why I hadn't seen very much of her the previous evening - she was going after another kitten.

Mommy is not fearful of me, and her practice was to watch me serve her food, I'd call to her in a whisper, calling "Pepper".  She would then come and eat - now I had 4 mouths to feed - at least she was still nursing.

January 3, 2012 - I almost had a heart attack  - #4 showed up.

Fortunately that was all.

I did add another piece of lumber to her home to make it easier for her to hide everyone.

As I was trying to plan what I was going to do with my new surprise family it was/is hard to get through the shock of adding 5 cats to our already 8-cat family.  I have no more room inside so this was most likely going to have to be a TNR situation.

I got my trap out and put it along the wall with some food in it to help them become familiar with it.

I'm not sure why, but I haven't seen Pepper since Friday night. (January 6, 2012)  At times I can count only 3 kittens - but I think I counted all 4 last night.

The raw chicken isn't being gobbled up like usual, and a lot of the food I'm leaving (TraderJoes, Wellness, Merrick, etc.) isn't being eaten enough to clean the plate.

Pepper may be hiding - but I'd think the food would be an indicator of her being here, or not.

So, here I am wondering.  

I would prefer to think that she was done caring for them, found them a food source, and left me to continue the care?

Anyone else see this happen?

She may be pregnant again and when back to where ever she was staying before - but I highly doubt it because she'd be coming back to eat - I'd think???

There it is.  Maybe someone could confirm that leaving them after they are mostly weaned is a normal way of homeless mommy cats?

Gotta say, I'm still in shock!  

I'd never heard of a mommy doing this - but that sure looked like what happened to me!  ugh!  I guess the picture of her nursing them was about their last time of mommy milk.  

The feral born mommy (my first TNR) stayed with her kittens - and didn't wean them until they were many months old.  One advantage we had was that the daddy just loved me and wanted to be at our home - AND- mommy feral-born just loved him.  I know that sounds funny, but she would sit for hours waiting for him to come home - there are stories I could tell, but - she was definitely devoted to her babies, and her mate.  Fortunately when she started coming into season I was able to trap her.

So, to see this happen is like I said - a real head-spinner for me.

Thank you for the suggestion to look for a group that fosters, maybe I can get some help for them.

So if "Pepper" comes around again, starving because she pregnant, I'll know what she has planning for me.  I also know she loves raw chicken breasts - so I'll do my best to trap that kitten producing machine.

ugh!

Heart Attack:  I woke up and looked out my bedroom window just to see if I could see the youngsters.

They don't have a baby sitter now.  One was on the block wall trying to figure how to get back down.

I couldn't go out there and cause it to panic, all I could do was watch.  Finally it made its way to the end of the wall and set down to watch the street activity - mostly birds.  I took the opportunity to go out the front door, walk quietly around the cars in our driveway, and start heading towards the kitten.  That little rascal forgot about all the obstacles of jumping off the 8 foot wall and jumped, running to its hiding place.

Since I could only count 3 of the 4, I contacted my neighbor (she loves animals - in fact I do some petsitting for them), and asked her to look in her back yard.  She didn't find a kitten, but told me she'd leave a door open in their pool room for the kitten to come.  I mentioned food - she said not to bring any, she had plenty.

Turned out when I fed them their evening meal, all four showed up so whew!!

They are spending their days in hiding, and not eating all that much or often - I hope this is normal.

Their first day here the gardener arrived - and mommy had to go get one and bring it back because they scattered.  The second day the pool guy came in - but by then they seemed to have their hiding place set - so they are getting wiser and how to get to safety.

I'm putting up more safe places - my yard is beginning to look like a dump.  

P.S. for some reason, I never received a notification of anyone's post after the first one, and my setting is for "Immediately".  hmmm, ????

Hey Missouri! Welcome to TCS!!

Cats!  My husband and I watch them with awe.  But this?!  I just couldn't believe this would happen - ha - and when you think you've learned a lot - there's so much more to learn about how they live - and - thrive.

It just didn't make sense that something bad happened to her because she has got to be a smart little survivor and if she was gone - there had to be something else in play.  Now,  I have my suspicions confirmed by the Members here.

I thought there was an off chance that she was trapped under the lumber - but the idea of taking their hiding place apart would be disastrous for the kittens - they would panic, and scatter to parts unknown, so I'm leaving the pile alone - and hoping for the best.

Our no-kill shelters are packed, and I have no leads to foster care - even if I could trap them right now for someone else to take - time is against me.  I have a house full - with one occupying a room all by himself - diagnosed with Leukemia, the Gray Family occupies the office, FR and kitchen area -plus they have an outside enclosure, and our Originals have the rest of the house.

To bring in 4 kittens without health check-ups would be almost an impossible situation for us, since I don't have anyplace to keep them.

As for the cold weather, fortunately we live in the CA Desert, so the low temps are manageable - conversely, the heat in the summer is the issue.  Somehow the cats survive.

As for TNRing her, I think she's trap smart, but now I know what she may have in store for me so will make stronger efforts to trap her if she starts coming around again with a pregnant appetite.

Thanks for your information, and good wishes - I need them both. :)

g

UPDATE ON MOMMY!!

She just showed up - the race is on now to trap her.

It's dark  - I was in my bedroom, took my flashlight and pointed it into the shelter I made from a 33 gal tote - looking to see if kittens were in the shelter, and to my surprise a tail showed up a lot bigger than a kitten's tail - she saw the light and turned to see it, and there was Mommy Pepper's face!!! 

How exciting!  I wonder what the odds are that she's already pregnant. ugh!

As of tonight, January 19, 2012 - Mommy and 4 kittens are accounted for - no little miracle.

I am amazed at her caring for these 4 feisty, healthy kittens.

She is taking me to school - educating me about her ability to protect these offspring - through gardeners, pool guys, and other service people not only at my house but at the neighbors' homes.

This morning they were all out front playing  - about 6:30 a.m. - I gasped when I saw them all out front - in my mind, a very dangerous place to be.

I went back to bed with my heart racing.  I have learned to NOT interfere because if I do, I mess up Mommy Pepper's shield of protection over her youngsters.

Before I went back to bed, I did see her begin to make her way back to our safe backyard, with the kittens in tow.  I think she must say something to them -  I know that our first feral born mother would call out to her kittens as they were living in the neighbors junk pile - so it's most likely there's some sort of verbal direction (?) given.

Well. it wasn't 2 minutes that I heard the neighbor's gardeners start up the lawnmower - did they actually make it back to safety before the loud mowers began? ...

Fortunately, I was able to observe them later - inside the 33 gal tote tub shelter I made - located under my bedroom window, sound asleep.  I gave thanks.

Another lesson learned to try harder in letting Pepper do what she knows - much better than me - how to take care of her kittens.

I need to trap her, but right now (she may already be pregnant again) I have another cat using it to transition to being inside - another thread about the calico that I trapped is in this forum.

I know that tomorrow, with the blink of an eye things can turn tragic - I'm learning my limitations - if I could, I'd have this family already inside my house to safety - but then, I do have limitations and I must learn to accept those limits. 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Feralvr 

You do have to set limitations - hard as it is. And you do have Callee right now to deal with inside . I do hope Pepper does not have more kittens That is why I would want her to go in right away and get spayed. . Maybe you could set up a crate outside for her to recover in? I did that for barn ferals when the weather was good - summertime. It really would be best to trap Pepper as soon as possible. I know you already know this though So I am not telling you anything you don't know Much luck to you Gloria - you are doing the best you can for all of these cats and kittens

At least the trap is now available.  I'll try to figure out the best spot to put it in - second thought - I know I want to get her when she's inside my yard wall - the kittens will be with her, and in safety that way - or so I hope.

I'm working on the idea of having her recover in our garage, opening the cat door so the kittens can find their mommy and won't be out and about without her protection - well that's the hope, anyway. Altho, the garage IS a scary place - it really isn't a garage, it's our storage - and it's ugly in there! 

This is the week-end, so will begin to try and get her next week.  If she IS pregnant it would be easier to trap her because she's ravenous then and would be more likely to go into the trap to get the food - but, then - there's those four other mouths to contend with.  If I get her and a kitten with her, I'll take them both, with an extra carrier and have the techs separate them.  They will only alter one cat per family per day, so .... ugh!  They're pretty strict, but they may make an exception - and if the kitten is big enough alter it, too.

The only large kennel I have is in Buddy's room - he's FeLV, so - that means if I'm to use it, I'll have to take it all apart and sanitize it first, ugh.  I need to find an energy pill!  

I do have one more option - we do have an outside enclosure for The Gray Family, and I could close them out of it temporarily and put Pepper in there?  But, it would be easy for the cat to escape - at least while she's in the trap I'll have some control over her without getting myself scratched up. 

Thanks for your gentle nudges - I need them to help me get over putting it off because I'm so tired. If I don't do this now, I'm sure going to be really, really sorry, and even more tired.

Quote:

Originally Posted by LDG 

Oh my, I didn't see the updates - and just WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Well, here's my take on the situation. When the weather's good, we trap, drop the trap with cat off at the vet. There's no low-cost spay/neuter around here. They neuter/spay when they can - usually the same day, sometimes the next day. If it's a male, we release him that afternoon if the weather's OK. If it's a female, they board her overnight, and we release her the next afternoon (and they kindly do not charge us for the boarding). As the kitties were fine without her for a while there... are you using a low cost clinic where boarding her overnight isn't an option? Or are you doing it at the vet? Could you chat with them about the situation and see if they're willing to help out here at all?
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

We have an SPCA here called Animal Samaritans.  I have to have the feral there at 7:30 a.m., and they have a limit of, I think, 10 - so it's first come first serve.  The spay/neuter is $25.00, and I was given a number to call to ask for someone to sponsor me so the surgery would be free to me.

I then have to pick the cat up at 2:30 p.m., and home we go - there's no overnight stay.

With Pepper, and her 4 kittens I'm torn about holding her for any lengthy time.  She is probably pregnant - that's probably why she went missing for a short time, I think and as was suggested by another member here.  

The kittens weren't as active then, but they are all over the place now, and I'm getting gray hairs just thinking about all the trouble they could get in to without her watching over them.  She's an amazing mother.  She takes them out on trips.  I see them out front where there's the possibility of a loose dog - or even coyotes, then there's the kids walking the streets, not to say the people out walking their dogs, or the traffic, or the gardeners, or pool service people.  Excuse me I have to go take a Valium just thinking about all the dangers available to active kittens. 

So, I'm trying to figure out how I can keep her in the trap recovering AND the kittens staying around her if they would.  If she IS pregnant, I'm thinking she will need more recovery time.  

I just have to try and let go of all of my concerns because things are mostly out of my hands, I'll just try to be as thoughtful as I can, and pray. 
 

The priority is getting her the surgery so I don't have more kittens to feed and get fixed. 

My regular Vet is now owned by the VCA organization - and I'm not sure, but I doubt that they would help me with the costs of a spay/neuter, but the next time we're there I will talk to her about possibilities available because I now have 4 kittens that will need surgery, too. 

I guess I really need mommy Pepper to be here rather than spending the night someplace else, even inside my house where it is more preferable.  Living in the warm desert, our temps at night are in the 40's, and usually without any other weather.  I guess as I'm writing this, the garage looks like the best place for her to recover - I'll leave the cat door open so the kittens can get around her, and if they all come inside maybe I can shut the trap door so they are kept in the garage (?). I have plenty of ways to keep her warm - putting the trap on top of folded boxes for insulation, and some warm comforters around the trap, fixing a tent-like structure so the kittens can get around the trap with her.  How does that sound?   HA!  Thanks for helping me think through this. 

I'd just have figure out how to get food and water to her if the babies are in the tent, too,  hmmmmm.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Feralvr 

Actually- 40 degrees is not that cold LOL LOL for cats. Especially since she will be stressed and overheated from being that way. You don't want her to get too warm . I think the garage is a perfect idea and place for her to recover. This is what I do for the female feral spays. I bring a small carrier to the vet along with the cat in the trap. When they are done with surgery - they put the cat inside the carrier so when the cat wakes up she is inside the carrier. When I get home I have a large dog crate all set up and place the carrier inside of the dog crate. I take the door off of the carrier and the cat is still so out of it and is just too scared to move anyway. Then I close the dog crate door and leave her be for the night other than putting food in after about five hours. They usually let you feed/water and clean the litter box over the next twenty four hours. I usually release them after a couple of days. IF they are extremely stressed the day after the spay, I might release them early. But it is best to keep them for a two nights and then release in the morning hours. Good luck, Gloria AND even if a kitten goes in the trap with her - so be it. Then you can get that kitten done too at the same time.

Normally 40 degrees isn't considered "cold".   But you've gotta remember - we're in the desert - and we feel cold at 60 degrees.  These cats here endure up to 120 degree days - I don't know how, but they do.

But I get what you say about her possibly being overstressed and overheated so the 40 degrees may be just fine to her.  In the garage - so she won't be on the concrete floor, I'll put something down between her cage/carrier and the floor.

Thanks for bringing up the carrier idea - I had, faintly, remembered the small carrier inside the large carrier or kennel - the cat runs into the smaller carrier to hide when they get the food, water, and/or litter changed.

So, what you're encouraging me to do is dig that kennel out of Buddy's room, disinfect it ( leukemia virus) and prepare it to receive a smaller carrier with Pepper. ugh

I'll evaluate that against just keeping her in the trap for her time of recovery, because the trap recovery seems to have worked for me.  I have a divider that inserts into the trap to divide the cat from the part that I need to attend to.  But - there are advantages to using the two carriers, probably more advantages than keeping her in the trap.  I'm thinking here. 

This evening we're experiencing extremely strong winds - called hurricane strength.  Their food was trashed.  I can't leave it outside - sand covers the food - so, I propped the garage door (the side door, not the large door for cars) open and put food inside the door where the sand won't get to it as easily.

It occurred to me that this is a good step in getting the kittens familiar with going into the garage, as well as Pepper, so it won't be as strange to her and them.

So, tomorrow I'll begin the preparation of the carriers, and try something new - hopefully this wind will have subsided because I will need to wash the kennel outside and I don't want sandy mud all over it. 

That's all for now - gotta go give Buddy (Leukemia) some personal attention for the day.  

This is Buddy - the kennel is behind him.  I use the kennel to confine Buddy (his second home) when I need to go into his room and vacuum, etc.. Lately he has become a little more accepting of the vacuum and doesn't panic as much and doesn't need the kennel to hide any more.

I'll have to take it apart to get it out of the room, ugh!  It's so big, I don't know if I'll be able to find a place in the garage - but will definitely make an effort to use it.

Thanks, I guess.   Maybe you can tell, I'm kinda tired.  

Oh, re: kitten altered with mommy - they say they won't take two - the rules are one cat per family, per day ????  I'm thinking that they might make an exception if I cry.

Tonight, March 21, 2012 I was able to capture the first kitten.

My stomach is in knots.

I withheld their food, and put a few pieces of raw chicken inside the trap, along with some of their regular Trader Joes canned chicken.

They circled the trap, started to chase a bug inside - almost releasing the trap door,

Then, showing little respect, climbed on top to take in the view.

I STILL HAVE NOT BEEN ABLE TO GET THE MOMMY!!  She's the one I wanted - but I knew one of the kids would be the first takers, but I still hoped.!!

I think this is the one that I have - and it's probably a male - hoping for a female, but, oh well - will find out tomorrow.

He/she is a lot calmer than the calico I trapped in January.  

I have to be at Animal Samaritans before 7:30 a.m., it's first come first served, and they only take 5 a day.  ugh!

We've arrived at the Animal Samaritans around 7:14 a.m. - to help make sure that we are one of the first five selected for surgery.  I will pay $25.00. today I donated another $10 towards their spay/neuter program.  The feral born get altered and a rabies shot.

I really am very tired from all the work involved - caring for the others, and keeping him/her separated from the other usual inquisitive cats.  I got into bed around 1 a.m., and had a restless night trying to get to sleep.  Then this little one began crying around 5 a.m. - my heart was breaking hearing the little cries and I couldn't get back to sleep.  

Finally, it's 6 a.m., and time to get up and get ready to get to the hospital!

That's no fun, either - a lady came in with an orange tabby to be neutered. He started visiting her house, but she can't keep him - she already has 6.  She told the story of how wonderful he was - he even allowed her to bath him, & clip his nails!  I had to leave knowing that, at last resort, she will be trying to take him to our new Palm Springs no-kill facility, willing to claim that she can no longer keep him because of ?allergies?, or something ---  - my heart breaks more as she unzips the carrier and there's that big beautiful gentle yellow/orange cat - in need of a loving family.

Well, me having to release this one - who seems to have a very gentle disposition - is going to be difficult enough - I will be feeding and caring for it, but it will have to stay outside with all the unknowns.

I'll post later, after I pick him/her up at 2 pm, and report the sex. 

It's a girl!!  Ok, now I need a name.

She's home, in a quiet location, and looks good.  Looks like her clipped ear may have bled a little - hope there's not a problem if she breaks off the scab.

Now I have to refresh my memory on feeding, water, and when it's safe to release her.  Stitches on the inside, glue on the outside.

Update for Thursday night, 3/22/12 - approximately 8-10 hours after her surgery.

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She had her surgery on Thursday, sometime between 8 a.m., and 12 pm - guessing here because I dropped her off about 7:45 a.m., and picked her up around 2 pm.  She was not groggy when they brought her out, but calm.

I put her and her trap inside my husband's bathroom.  I put a carrier inside the tub, and a towel over the carrier, with the door of the carrier tied open.

I put a litter pan in the room - with Dr. Elsey's Cat Attract litter.  

The after surgery instructions were to withhold water until 8 pm., and no food until the next day (!). ( I still put down water a little earlier than 8 pm, and gave her a little canned food around 11 pm.)

I opened the trap door and left the room.  A little later I checked the trap, and sure enough, the kitten got with the program and was now inside the carrier in the tub.

Things were coming along really well.  We had a sliding screen door over the door opening, with the door slightly ajar - allowing for air flow and still private for her.

About 12:30 a.m., I headed for bed after feeding all the inside cats, and the outside cats.  That's when the fun started.  Our oldest cat had managed to open the screen door - I didn't notice until I started for the closet and saw a little gray kitten face looking at me.  sigh - a big sigh!

I got KiKi out of the kitten's room (aka bathroom), and then had to take KiKi and Phoebe into the living room and close them in there to keep them out of the action.  Simon was content just to stay up on the top shelf of the cat tree and watch all the activity below and not interfere with my re-capturing activities.

I managed to close off the hall, and prepare a path for the kitten to be herded back into her room.

I coaxed her out of the closet, then from under the bed. (btw my husband is sound asleep while I'm climbing under the bed with a flashlight)

By now little kitten is scared to death. ugh!

She finally ran into the bathroom, and I closed the screen door and secured it better.  I retrieved KiKi and Phoebe from the living room, and got ready for bed.  By now I am running on about 4-5 hours sleep since Wednesday night - when I trapped the kitten.

Phoebe and KiKi settled in their spots on the bed, and we started to finally try to get some rest.  HA!

I heard some stuff being thrown on the bathroom floor.  By now KiKi has stomped over my stomach to get to the screen door, but not before Phoebe was charging the door because the kitten was jumping on the door in an attempt to free herself.  Yeh, I had to get up now because she figured out how she might be able to get that door open again - thanks to KiKi's quick lesson, I'm sure.

When I went over to the door, of course she hightailed it to the tub.  I turned on the light to find my husband's stuff pushed off the counter and into the cat litter.  No laughing please - remember, I'm past being tired.  

You might ask why I had left all that stuff on the counter in the first place - remember how tired and non-thinking I am at this point. 

I began picking up the stuff from the litter, tooth brushes, electric razor, etc.  When I got that picked up, I went over to the tub to check on the kitten - huge mistake - she lunged out of the carrier after I adjusted the cover - and, well we really needed a fast movie camera.  

She literally climbed walls, she climbed the house robes hanging on the door, managed to dislodge the door stop with the door hinge pin, jumped on top of the towel rack with all my bath salts, etc., pulling all that off and on to the floor and ran around the room several times until she ran out of steam and landed under the toilet water tank.

WHAT A MESS!

I took the bath robes off the door hook, and threw them into the sink, covering most of the items on the counter, and took as much stuff out of the bathroom as I could.  I had wash cloths all over the place.  Boy, am I glad the toilet lid was closed!  But, now I have a lot more laundry to do than I had less than 15 minutes ago.

During her run-for-her-life all I could do was just stand there, in a small space and let her run herself down as I watched, praying that she wasn't hurting herself.  I couldn't leave the room, and I couldn't get away so she could settle down.  

I picked up what I could from the room, cleaned the rest of the stuff out her litter pan, etc., and left.

Finally, rest is near.  

Now the crying.  I got up again and reluctantly closed the bathroom door so her cries wouldn't be so clear & so I could get to sleep.

This morning I haven't heard a peep out of her - I hope she's okay!  I did give her some fresh food, and hopefully when I'm able to get a peek inside the food will be gone.

Well, that's my story - I try to expect the unexpected - but, once again - a cat outsmarted me. ugh.

I'm trying to keep her in until Sunday even though the hospital instructions said I could release her today - but after all the exercising she done I have to try and be sure she is healed enough - so am waiting.

I try not to think about the other 4 that I need to trap right now - it's just too much to consider. 

Feel free to chide me for not preparing the bathroom better, I deserve it.