Is It Possible for Mommy Just to bring them to Me to Feed?

About a month ago I started feeding what appeared to be homeless cats - still not so sure. I am feeding them outside my front door in my little courtyard.

One started coming frequently, even showing up early to get her food.  The way she was eating I figured that she was either pregnant, or nursing.

December 30 or 31st,  when I looked out the window there were two kittens with her.

January 1, 2012 - there was a sound under my bedroom window, and there they were.

She had brought them to our side yard - protected with a block wall and gate. 

I was able to open the side garage door - she was there to watch me put out more food, including raw chicken as I found was her favorite.

Now it would be easier to feed her, and her two kittens, safely away from other cats, etc..

Now, I planned, I feel good about trapping her knowing that her kittens are safe behind backyard walls and gates while their mommy recovered from surgery.

January 2, 2012 - The first I saw them when I got up was a little surprising - #3 was now here. Guess that's why I hadn't seen very much of her the previous evening - she was going after another kitten.

Mommy is not fearful of me, and her practice was to watch me serve her food, I'd call to her in a whisper, calling "Pepper".  She would then come and eat - now I had 4 mouths to feed - at least she was still nursing.



January 3, 2012 - I almost had a heart attack  - #4 showed up.

Fortunately that was all.

I did add another piece of lumber to her home to make it easier for her to hide everyone.

As I was trying to plan what I was going to do with my new surprise family it was/is hard to get through the shock of adding 5 cats to our already 8-cat family.  I have no more room inside so this was most likely going to have to be a TNR situation.

I got my trap out and put it along the wall with some food in it to help them become familiar with it.



I'm not sure why, but I haven't seen Pepper since Friday night. (January 6, 2012)  At times I can count only 3 kittens - but I think I counted all 4 last night.

The raw chicken isn't being gobbled up like usual, and a lot of the food I'm leaving (TraderJoes, Wellness, Merrick, etc.) isn't being eaten enough to clean the plate.

Pepper may be hiding - but I'd think the food would be an indicator of her being here, or not.

So, here I am wondering.  

I would prefer to think that she was done caring for them, found them a food source, and left me to continue the care?

Anyone else see this happen?

She may be pregnant again and when back to where ever she was staying before - but I highly doubt it because she'd be coming back to eat - I'd think???

There it is.  Maybe someone could confirm that leaving them after they are mostly weaned is a normal way of homeless mommy cats?

Hi Gloria WHAT a darling little family and how absolutely kind of you to care for them and plan on getting them TNRd. The setting up of the trap is an excellent idea and perfect way for them to feel very comfortable going in and out of the trap to eat. On vet day it will be very easy for you to get them trapped. As for Pepper... it is possible she has another feeding source too, along with you. I have found this to be quite true in neighborhood's and the cat's will travel from food source to food source staying at one or the other for day's at a time. It is possible she is in heat again and looking to be bred .... or possible even pregnant again. If she has had other litter's, then she knows the drill by now in that when they are weaned, being cared for by someone like you :heart3: and she is pregnant again she will venture off to have the next litter. BUT usually the mom cat's will come around and check on the kitten's - it is just natural for her. Poor momma, she does need someone to help her and to get her spayed. I really hope she comes back very soon so you can get her spayed right away. They are really, really cute kitties. Keep us posted

Awww..... look at the little family! :heart3:

I'm sorry, I don't have experience with this. The feral mom cat that started us off on kitty rescue stayed with her babies until they were about 12 weeks old... we adopted them or adopted them out, and TNR'd her. But I do know that once they're weaned, she can go back into heat again. That may be what happened.

for the babies! No foster network around that might be able to foster them? We were able to get three kittens that turned up here last winter into a foster network - the others showed up too late. And once winter was over... they were just too old to be fostered by a typical network (that needs socialization to happen rather quickly so they can be adopted). They're all TNR'd now, and happy little feral colony campers. :lol3: Thank goodness there were no kittens this past summer/fall.

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

About your question.  I dont know for sure, or rather, I dont remember if I remember..... 

But there are surely anecdotical evidence it can be as you say....  Mom comes with her kittens to a place she knows or hopes is friendly, leaves them there, and proceeds on...  Not least, in the fictional litterature.

But the hard fact reality?  I dont know.

Tx for what you are doing!

Good luck!   *vibes*

As a feral caregiver, I have had this happen many times.  I have 2 older, very wild femalse that I could never catch to spay.  They get pregnant, have their babies (I always marked on a calendar when they had them) and sure enough, between 6-8 weeks...as they are being weaned...the mamas bring the babies to my feral shelter.  I always have fresh water, wet food and adult and kitten "crunchies" mixed together out for my group to feed on.  Mama's know where the food is and if they sense that it is safe, they will bring their babies to feed.

kittilady said:

  Mama's know where the food is and if they sense that it is safe, they will bring their babies to feed.

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Ah, coming with the babies to feed when they are 6-8 weeks (before it the kittens carefully hidden), is common. So do very many barn cats, if they suspect the farmer will kill off the newborns.  As many farmers did as a matter of routine, in the days before spaying become common.

But very few farmers does kills off the half grown kittens...  They hate it at least.

Nay, as I understood, the question was, if the mommas bring in the half grown kittens to a friendly human, and leaves them there, themselves proceeding with further part of their live...
 

Ok, one story I do remember.  The two girls told how they got their resident, Moses, now adult cat, they raised it form a small kitten.  They did camped at a lake not far from a farm. At some moment there come a female cat with a kitten in the mouth, looked at them, meowed, left the kitten somewhat hidden in the rugs nearby.  And disappeared.

They waited for the mom to reapperar. When it didnt happened a couple of hours they took care of the kitten.  Their understanding was, the cat had her kittens at the farm. Their nest perhaps discovered by the farmer, and etc.  The mom managed to save one of the kittens and carry it away.

The mom couldnt know the girls were friendly. But here was a perhaps chance.  At the other place - not.

The story was retold as a fact, I think one of the women was intervjued, and I heard this intervju.

kittilady said:

As a feral caregiver, I have had this happen many times.  I have 2 older, very wild femalse that I could never catch to spay.  They get pregnant, have their babies (I always marked on a calendar when they had them) and sure enough, between 6-8 weeks...as they are being weaned...the mamas bring the babies to my feral shelter.  I always have fresh water, wet food and adult and kitten "crunchies" mixed together out for my group to feed on.  Mama's know where the food is and if they sense that it is safe, they will bring their babies to feed.

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The mom's DO know where the nice cat lady lives and where it is safe for her and her kitten's. Then we take over with all of the TNRs :hmm: . AND trying to trap momma :cross:

StefanZ said:

Ok, one story I do remember.  The two girls told how they got their resident, Moses, now adult cat, they raised it form a small kitten.  They did camped at a lake not far from a farm. At some moment there come a female cat with a kitten in the mouth, looked at them, meowed, left the kitten somewhat hidden in the rugs nearby.  And disappeared.
They waited for the mom to reapperar. When it didnt happened a couple of hours they took care of the kitten.  Their understanding was, the cat had her kittens at the farm. Their nest perhaps discovered by the farmer, and etc.  The mom managed to save one of the kittens and carry it away.
The mom couldnt know the girls were friendly. But here was a perhaps chance.  At the other place - not.
The story was retold as a fact, I think one of the women was intervjued, and I heard this intervju.

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I LOVE that story, Stefan. :heart3: Thanks for sharing. I really DO think these wise, feral queen's do try to find a safe place for their kitten's so then they can go and breed and have more kitten's to take those kitten's place ...... OH the cycle will continue unless we step in and TNR.

Gotta say, I'm still in shock!  

I'd never heard of a mommy doing this - but that sure looked like what happened to me!  ugh!  I guess the picture of her nursing them was about their last time of mommy milk.  

The feral born mommy (my first TNR) stayed with her kittens - and didn't wean them until they were many months old.  One advantage we had was that the daddy just loved me and wanted to be at our home - AND- mommy feral-born just loved him.  I know that sounds funny, but she would sit for hours waiting for him to come home - there are stories I could tell, but - she was definitely devoted to her babies, and her mate.  Fortunately when she started coming into season I was able to trap her.

So, to see this happen is like I said - a real head-spinner for me.

Thank you for the suggestion to look for a group that fosters, maybe I can get some help for them.

So if "Pepper" comes around again, starving because she pregnant, I'll know what she has planning for me.  I also know she loves raw chicken breasts - so I'll do my best to trap that kitten producing machine.

ugh!

Heart Attack:  I woke up and looked out my bedroom window just to see if I could see the youngsters.

They don't have a baby sitter now.  One was on the block wall trying to figure how to get back down.

I couldn't go out there and cause it to panic, all I could do was watch.  Finally it made its way to the end of the wall and set down to watch the street activity - mostly birds.  I took the opportunity to go out the front door, walk quietly around the cars in our driveway, and start heading towards the kitten.  That little rascal forgot about all the obstacles of jumping off the 8 foot wall and jumped, running to its hiding place.

Since I could only count 3 of the 4, I contacted my neighbor (she loves animals - in fact I do some petsitting for them), and asked her to look in her back yard.  She didn't find a kitten, but told me she'd leave a door open in their pool room for the kitten to come.  I mentioned food - she said not to bring any, she had plenty.

Turned out when I fed them their evening meal, all four showed up so whew!!

They are spending their days in hiding, and not eating all that much or often - I hope this is normal.

Their first day here the gardener arrived - and mommy had to go get one and bring it back because they scattered.  The second day the pool guy came in - but by then they seemed to have their hiding place set - so they are getting wiser and how to get to safety.

I'm putting up more safe places - my yard is beginning to look like a dump.  

P.S. for some reason, I never received a notification of anyone's post after the first one, and my setting is for "Immediately".  hmmm, ????

Actually, I have heard of this all the time... I have even witnessed it.  She trusts you.  She knows you won't hurt her.  You feed her well and it is winter. 

I too would to a TNR for her.  And for the kittens, maybe they can be socialized and adopted?  Do you know of any vets that do adoptions or any no kill shelters?  Maybe you could find them homes yourself?  

Best of luck and the family is adorable.  At least with the TNR, they won't continue the cycle and you will be keeping them from infections.

Hey Missouri! Welcome to TCS!!

Cats!  My husband and I watch them with awe.  But this?!  I just couldn't believe this would happen - ha - and when you think you've learned a lot - there's so much more to learn about how they live - and - thrive.

It just didn't make sense that something bad happened to her because she has got to be a smart little survivor and if she was gone - there had to be something else in play.  Now,  I have my suspicions confirmed by the Members here.

I thought there was an off chance that she was trapped under the lumber - but the idea of taking their hiding place apart would be disastrous for the kittens - they would panic, and scatter to parts unknown, so I'm leaving the pile alone - and hoping for the best.



Our no-kill shelters are packed, and I have no leads to foster care - even if I could trap them right now for someone else to take - time is against me.  I have a house full - with one occupying a room all by himself - diagnosed with Leukemia, the Gray Family occupies the office, FR and kitchen area -plus they have an outside enclosure, and our Originals have the rest of the house.

To bring in 4 kittens without health check-ups would be almost an impossible situation for us, since I don't have anyplace to keep them.

As for the cold weather, fortunately we live in the CA Desert, so the low temps are manageable - conversely, the heat in the summer is the issue.  Somehow the cats survive.

As for TNRing her, I think she's trap smart, but now I know what she may have in store for me so will make stronger efforts to trap her if she starts coming around again with a pregnant appetite.

Thanks for your information, and good wishes - I need them both.

g

Yes shelters are packed here, too.  Sometimes my vet will take them in if they are really social.  Kittens go quickly and are always in high demand.  Where I live, I can't do the TNR any longer.  I have ignorant and cruel neighbors that leave out traps and shoot them for sport.  It sickens me.  I have done all I can to stop them but Missouri is way behind on Animal Welfare and Cruelty laws.  If I get to the traps first, I will take them in and try to find them homes or release them away from my neighborhood and pray they don't come back. 

I would still try to get her fixed and the kittens, too.  They will start or are capable of reproducing at 5 months old.  There are so many ferals that any way to keep the numbers down helps the ones out there now.  Plus, they will give them shots and they'll at least be protected from disease and they won't get STI's.  But, if you can't, you can't.  Best of luck!!

UPDATE ON MOMMY!!

She just showed up - the race is on now to trap her.

It's dark  - I was in my bedroom, took my flashlight and pointed it into the shelter I made from a 33 gal tote - looking to see if kittens were in the shelter, and to my surprise a tail showed up a lot bigger than a kitten's tail - she saw the light and turned to see it, and there was Mommy Pepper's face!!! 

How exciting!  I wonder what the odds are that she's already pregnant. ugh!

I'm glad she came back! I hope you can trap her this time. And even if she is pregnant, I'd probably abort the kittens and have her spayed at the same time. It may not sound great, but it is better than another litter of stray kittens that you have to TNR. 

Gloria . You do have a full house :lol3: and now a full back yard. Great set up and lots of hiding spots for the new family. For Pepper's return. I was pretty sure you would see her again. She is quite smart and now has you as a resource for her kittens. Pepper knows she can count on you. I really am hoping you can get her trapped quickly :cross:..... No more kittens needed, RIGHT ...

P.S. you have a nice neighbor Maybe they can put the word out too and help you find some homes or foster's for the kittens. Spread the word

As of tonight, January 19, 2012 - Mommy and 4 kittens are accounted for - no little miracle.

I am amazed at her caring for these 4 feisty, healthy kittens.

She is taking me to school - educating me about her ability to protect these offspring - through gardeners, pool guys, and other service people not only at my house but at the neighbors' homes.

This morning they were all out front playing  - about 6:30 a.m. - I gasped when I saw them all out front - in my mind, a very dangerous place to be.

I went back to bed with my heart racing.  I have learned to NOT interfere because if I do, I mess up Mommy Pepper's shield of protection over her youngsters.

Before I went back to bed, I did see her begin to make her way back to our safe backyard, with the kittens in tow.  I think she must say something to them -  I know that our first feral born mother would call out to her kittens as they were living in the neighbors junk pile - so it's most likely there's some sort of verbal direction (?) given.

Well. it wasn't 2 minutes that I heard the neighbor's gardeners start up the lawnmower - did they actually make it back to safety before the loud mowers began? ...

Fortunately, I was able to observe them later - inside the 33 gal tote tub shelter I made - located under my bedroom window, sound asleep.  I gave thanks.

Another lesson learned to try harder in letting Pepper do what she knows - much better than me - how to take care of her kittens.

I need to trap her, but right now (she may already be pregnant again) I have another cat using it to transition to being inside - another thread about the calico that I trapped is in this forum.

I know that tomorrow, with the blink of an eye things can turn tragic - I'm learning my limitations - if I could, I'd have this family already inside my house to safety - but then, I do have limitations and I must learn to accept those limits. 

You do have to set limitations - hard as it is. And you do have Callee right now to deal with inside . I do hope Pepper does not have more kittens That is why I would want her to go in right away and get spayed. . Maybe you could set up a crate outside for her to recover in? I did that for barn ferals when the weather was good - summertime. It really would be best to trap Pepper as soon as possible. I know you already know this though So I am not telling you anything you don't know :lol3: Much luck to you Gloria - you are doing the best you can for all of these cats and kittens

Feralvr said:

You do have to set limitations - hard as it is. And you do have Callee right now to deal with inside

. I do hope Pepper does not have more kittens

That is why I would want her to go in right away and get spayed.

. Maybe you could set up a crate outside for her to recover in? I did that for barn ferals when the weather was good - summertime. It really would be best to trap Pepper as soon as possible. I know you already know this though

So I am not telling you anything you don't know

Much luck to you Gloria - you are doing the best you can for all of these cats and kittens

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At least the trap is now available.  I'll try to figure out the best spot to put it in - second thought - I know I want to get her when she's inside my yard wall - the kittens will be with her, and in safety that way - or so I hope.

I'm working on the idea of having her recover in our garage, opening the cat door so the kittens can find their mommy and won't be out and about without her protection - well that's the hope, anyway. Altho, the garage IS a scary place - it really isn't a garage, it's our storage - and it's ugly in there! 

This is the week-end, so will begin to try and get her next week.  If she IS pregnant it would be easier to trap her because she's ravenous then and would be more likely to go into the trap to get the food - but, then - there's those four other mouths to contend with.  If I get her and a kitten with her, I'll take them both, with an extra carrier and have the techs separate them.  They will only alter one cat per family per day, so .... ugh!  They're pretty strict, but they may make an exception - and if the kitten is big enough alter it, too.

The only large kennel I have is in Buddy's room - he's FeLV, so - that means if I'm to use it, I'll have to take it all apart and sanitize it first, ugh.  I need to find an energy pill!  

I do have one more option - we do have an outside enclosure for The Gray Family, and I could close them out of it temporarily and put Pepper in there?  But, it would be easy for the cat to escape - at least while she's in the trap I'll have some control over her without getting myself scratched up. 

Thanks for your gentle nudges - I need them to help me get over putting it off because I'm so tired. If I don't do this now, I'm sure going to be really, really sorry, and even more tired.

Oh my, I didn't see the updates - and just WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Well, here's my take on the situation. When the weather's good, we trap, drop the trap with cat off at the vet. There's no low-cost spay/neuter around here. They neuter/spay when they can - usually the same day, sometimes the next day. If it's a male, we release him that afternoon if the weather's OK. If it's a female, they board her overnight, and we release her the next afternoon (and they kindly do not charge us for the boarding). As the kitties were fine without her for a while there... are you using a low cost clinic where boarding her overnight isn't an option? Or are you doing it at the vet? Could you chat with them about the situation and see if they're willing to help out here at all? :dk:

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

LDG said:

Oh my, I didn't see the updates - and just WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Well, here's my take on the situation. When the weather's good, we trap, drop the trap with cat off at the vet. There's no low-cost spay/neuter around here. They neuter/spay when they can - usually the same day, sometimes the next day. If it's a male, we release him that afternoon if the weather's OK. If it's a female, they board her overnight, and we release her the next afternoon (and they kindly do not charge us for the boarding). As the kitties were fine without her for a while there... are you using a low cost clinic where boarding her overnight isn't an option? Or are you doing it at the vet? Could you chat with them about the situation and see if they're willing to help out here at all?

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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We have an SPCA here called Animal Samaritans.  I have to have the feral there at 7:30 a.m., and they have a limit of, I think, 10 - so it's first come first serve.  The spay/neuter is $25.00, and I was given a number to call to ask for someone to sponsor me so the surgery would be free to me.

I then have to pick the cat up at 2:30 p.m., and home we go - there's no overnight stay.

With Pepper, and her 4 kittens I'm torn about holding her for any lengthy time.  She is probably pregnant - that's probably why she went missing for a short time, I think and as was suggested by another member here.  

The kittens weren't as active then, but they are all over the place now, and I'm getting gray hairs just thinking about all the trouble they could get in to without her watching over them.  She's an amazing mother.  She takes them out on trips.  I see them out front where there's the possibility of a loose dog - or even coyotes, then there's the kids walking the streets, not to say the people out walking their dogs, or the traffic, or the gardeners, or pool service people.  Excuse me I have to go take a Valium just thinking about all the dangers available to active kittens. 

So, I'm trying to figure out how I can keep her in the trap recovering AND the kittens staying around her if they would.  If she IS pregnant, I'm thinking she will need more recovery time.  

I just have to try and let go of all of my concerns because things are mostly out of my hands, I'll just try to be as thoughtful as I can, and pray. 
 

The priority is getting her the surgery so I don't have more kittens to feed and get fixed. 

My regular Vet is now owned by the VCA organization - and I'm not sure, but I doubt that they would help me with the costs of a spay/neuter, but the next time we're there I will talk to her about possibilities available because I now have 4 kittens that will need surgery, too. 

I guess I really need mommy Pepper to be here rather than spending the night someplace else, even inside my house where it is more preferable.  Living in the warm desert, our temps at night are in the 40's, and usually without any other weather.  I guess as I'm writing this, the garage looks like the best place for her to recover - I'll leave the cat door open so the kittens can get around her, and if they all come inside maybe I can shut the trap door so they are kept in the garage (?). I have plenty of ways to keep her warm - putting the trap on top of folded boxes for insulation, and some warm comforters around the trap, fixing a tent-like structure so the kittens can get around the trap with her.  How does that sound?    HA!  Thanks for helping me think through this. 

I'd just have figure out how to get food and water to her if the babies are in the tent, too,  hmmmmm.