Help.. thinking of getting Neka declawed and I don't want to, but don't know what else to do...

Just a friendly reminder to all members that the member is asking for help, so please, no flaming 

 

Also,  a reminder of one of the rules on declawing at TCS

 

3. This website is anti-declawing. Understand that if you are pro-declaw in your posts, you will encounter opposition. Please learn more about alternatives for declawing here in our forums as well as on our website itself. Declaw - More than Just a Manicure.

All cats are anti-soft paws when you first put them on.  I have 5 cats in the house and 4 of them wear soft paws (Blue was declawed front AND back before we got him! :()  They all have very different purrsonalities.  Rex is laid back and he accepted the paws from day one...including laying down like a person against me and letting me put them on him.  Chloe gets scared every time I do it, but she doesn't try to climb me until most of the claws are on...which helps.  LOL  She doesn't chew them off.  Juno squalled like a banshee when I put them on her the first few times.  It was a fight, but now she just accepts them and moves on.  Meowgie acts like I am torturing him and squalls and wiggles until sometimes my dh has to hold him for me...and he chews at them.  However, he is LITTLE (3 mos) and each time gets easier with less of him chewing at them. 

 

Before you resort to declawing, I would do the soft paws SEVERAL more times and see if you can get her used to them.  Even if you just put them on the front claws, it sounds like it will help you a lot.

 

Good luck!!

Have you tried screaming? I have found cats be able to learn quite well away from activity that hurts me by simply screaming loud OW when I feel pain that I don't like to feel, mine have learned to be more gentle that way.

It takes quite many times until they learned, but now it is mostly good.

When mine are really naughty, I say NO! to them and put my index finger up and close to their nose while looking straight to eyes, when just normally naughty I just say NO! or maybe put just finger up, they understand, but when not listening and still doing wrong things staring to eyes makes them think twice as it is challenge/threat thing, which of course scares them a bit, but also they understand better that it is now serious no and they do stop misbehaving then, also I always praise when they stop and start to behave, so they get also positive responce from stopping bad thing.
Three of mine are under 1 year old so they are bit seeking those limits and need a bit of guidance to life.

But if all that does not help, then perhaps some other measures are required, some use water spray to teach what is bad, but I did try that when I had one cat that was misbehaving, there just was no any effect, some cats seem to have no dislike to water. There is also clicker training, which might work, but I don't know much about that one either.

I know that some cats can then get bit clawing/chewing desires when they smell catnip, just to be sure, has there be new toy with cat nip or some other cat nip source recently or has your cat had such kind of reaction to cat nip?

There are quite lot of possibilities so before doing anything big, it is perhaps best to exhaust every other method, often it is just hard to know all those methods that actually are available, I'm sure there is even more which I don't know, so maybe others can put up what their know, that way there would be at least information abotu what possibilites there are before doing anything that can't be undone, that is how I think about at least. Hopefully solution can be found without too much trouble.

Sorry you are having this problem, but declawing is too savage a remedy. There are ways to train a cat, especially one as young as this. I would try disciplining him as his own mommy would - use cat language. Hiss at him immediately he does something you don't like, then follow with his name. The only physical thing I would do (water spray almost never works) is to tap him on the nose as a cat would. But this must be almost simultaneous with the bad action, or he will not associate the two. And I say a tap, that is all it should be, accompanied by a hiss or growl. He will learn.

All of my cats have their claws and I don't use soft claws, nor do I clip their nails. And I have a couple of kneaders and a couple that like to rake their claws (and teeth) thru my hair. This is natural behavior in cats.

I'll use Scarlett as an example, as she gets frantic with her kneading at times. When she starts, depending on where she starts to knead, I'll do a couple of things. If I'm in bed and she starts on my face, I'll flip her around so her back is towards me and snuggle her in tight against my chest with my hand close to her chest. She'll continue to try to knead my hand, but I can control her movements with my fingers (wiggle them in between her digits or just hold her claws in check). She loves the alternative to snuggle up against me and she still can knead within reason, so we both are happy. If she climbs in my lap on the sofa (her other favorite kneading spot), I'll put my hand under her paws so that she can't rip up my clothes, or I'll put a blanket (a towel or tshirt would also work) in between her paws and me. Again, she still gets to knead and I don't get scratched.

Muddy is my hair scratcher/biter. He does it most when I pick him up and carry him on my shoulder (his favorite spot). When he does this, I give him a big NO and remove him from my shoulder - something he doesn't like. Muddy doesn't do it very often anymore, as he LOVES my shoulder and he has learned that if he misbehaves while up there, he loses his shoulder rights. But as all cats do, he sometimes gets carried away trying to do something he loves to do, and forgets that I won't let him do it.

Taking the things away from them that gives them pleasure doesn't entirely work. Redirect their behavior to something they still love, and control how and what they knead.

Okay here are my , I would agree with a front declaw. But, be aware of a few things. Number one, at her age, it will be traumatic. You will need to be home a lot the first few weeks. You also will need to find a VERY GOOD veterinarian, to do it at such a late stage in life. Lastly, be aware, that such a radical physical change at her age CAN CHANGE her disposition.

 

I own an F3 Savannah that has all his nails. While, he never intentionally hurts me (never swats me, or grabs at me with his claws out), he constantly injures me. He uses me like a jungle gym, spring board, and just a general toy . Many of you are thinking, why do I let him do that? It can not be helped. Part of living/working with this breed of cat "requires" you be used as a toy.

 

Now my F3 has had his nails trimmed twice a week, since I acquired him at about four months old. So his nails are cut down very short. However, he chews the tips, so they are still very very sharp. I have never seen a pure domestic cat with such SHARP and more importantly serrated claws. Our skin V.S. there claws = no contest. Claws win .

 

I have tried soft paws three times. It was almost impossible for me to get them on the cat. My Savannah seems to be as pliable as a ferret or slinky. More importantly, once the soft paws where on the cat, he removed them quickly. By quickly, I mean five minutes or less .

 

So what have I learned from owning Loki? I have learned that hybrid cats have VERY sharp claws. They may not mean to hurt you, but they sure do. I have also learned nail trimmers are your "friend".

 

Now, will Neka let you clip her claws? I mean are you capable of doing so? If so, will she let you do it? My Loki squirms around when I do it. But, since I have done it to him since he was young, he has learned to tolerate it.

 

Things that do not work with foundation/hybrid exotic cats, based on my experience are: yelling, screaming, or hitting. All yelling and screaming does is "amp up" your cat. Unlike a pure domestic, that will run and hide, that will only "excite" your Savannah cat. Hitting will simply get you bitten, not to mention the moral/legal implications of such behavior.

 

In closing, when I acquire my next Savannah or Chausie he will be front dewclaw. Plain and simple.

 

 

***Please note the following: I am not a proponent of declawing pure domestic cats. My completely indoor cat, just get her nails trimmed. My indoor/outdoor domestic cats, use there nails in "nature" not me or my home.

I have a cat who likes to knead also, and when I haven't clipped her nails for a while it can be painful. I like it when she kneads on me too, but when it starts to hurt, I gently pick her up and re-position her so that if she continues to knead it won't hurt me. Also, wintertime is nice because she loves fleece, so I can simply cover my legs with a fleece blanket and let her go to town on that.

 

My new guy looks like he's going to be a kneader too. I hear you that it does hurt in certain spots on your body, but don't get her declawed just because you don't want her to stop kneading you. When it is painful for you, gently pick her up and focus her attention elsewhere. Like others have mentioned, when she swats at you aggressively, hiss at her or firmly tell her "no". This has worked with my cat, the only time I ever get scratched is if I startle her (my fault) or if she gets overzealous at play time.

Monet used to knead on my face.. I've patiently moved his paws off my face and on to another part of my body that's covered with cloth. Eventually, he learned that the face is not the place to knead. Try redirecting his actions to another part of the body.. your shoulder or something that's covered with your clothes or cloth

Jamie loves to run his claws through my hair and eventually learned that "Claws!" means he's to stop doing that or kneading my face/head/bare legs or arms. I kept repeating it and moving his paws away.

I've found that sort of yelping something that sounds like "meowch!" (Try to make the sound a cat makes when he/she gets hurt while playing) helps. They don't want to hurt you so if you make that sound they know to stop.

What do you use to clip her nails? Human nail clippers seem to leave raggedy edges, rounded cat nail clippers seem to leave them cleaner. She must have very fast-growing nails? I have one guy who absolutely does not know where his claws are or what he's doing with them, so if his claws are sharp I can get hurt. But if I clip them once a week it just feels like a paw massage when he kneads me. . .even after he's scratched the post (the "sharpening" effect of scratching a post isn't immediate). Even if hers grow quickly, twice-a-week clippings should do the job.

If you think you could condition her to accept it, a Dremel would leave her nails nice and rounded. I do know people who use them on cats but I have never attempted it.

Yeah. This advice is not popular, people think immediately about maltreating and abuse. "Not nice if the big one beats the little fellow".  Spanking children is forbidden by law (at least in Sweden), not even to speak about beating.  We do usually have other measures, both for children and cats.

 

But as JennyRanson says, the cats themselves do so, teaching those who need to be teached. Slapping with soft paw for misbehaving friends, courting studs, and family members. Slapping with open nails and clawing  enemies or  hostile or if afraid for real.

So. We dont go out with this as our official recommendation. 

But if desperate - sure.  A tap with a finger... Better this cat natural teaching as our last resort than - say declawing.

Edited by StefanZ - 1/5/12 at 2:32am

I have also noticed that older cats will sometimes just put their paw on an unruly younger cat's head. . .not swatting them, just placing it there, maybe pushing away a little. Usually accompanied by a hiss. I've tried this with varying success. Might help.

 your baby needs a playmate 

All my cats are rather feral, none of them is fully tame, but hissing or tapping top of head has not caused any distrust, they understand it as parental advising thing, even growling seem to be ok, that is if nothing else works, like when they try to steal my tun sandwich by reaching it with their claws.

They might be startled a moment, but very quickly in matter of days learn that it is thing not to do and instead cuddle on my leg and try to be so sweet that I could not resist urge to give them some tuna

But tapping, needs to be fast but not powerful.

Most crazy one is such that sometimes he is needed to be pushed away gently, just open palm on top of his head and gently pushing away, after few times he understand to leave some space.

Expressing that you are hurt clearly and audible, supporting by trying to move away is probably what is good to start with, clear suprising reacting with bit loudly is what makes cat understand that it hurts.

Also if you raise your hand palm towards him is telling him that it is better to stop or there are consequences, that is what cats of 'equal rank' do when playing gets too rough to their liking, they turn to their side, make loud noise and put paw up, oh and then staring to eyes.

I like also from idea to turn cat so that his back is against you and controlling with gentle method, that way there is nothing negative for him to face.

One has to remember that in all the cuteness, cat is predatory beast that is top of the food chain, any dispute in cat world is solved with some form of violence or threats, so that is language they understand most easily, it is natural for them, however it is possible to redirect attention to something that they like even more and that provides too great results, but it is not quite so easy to do always and some may be bit stubborn for that, depends of course from cat. So even we humans think something cruel in cat world it is nice, for example when two cats get to rest, one might grab other one from neck and bite, quite hard actually so that other is getting audible and puts his claws to biters face, to make him stop, still they both like it as sign of affection and soon sleep in one ball of fur and paws.

Line can be draws however to hurting, so no physical is not required, but it should be done correctly.

One more example of teaching cat to stop some action is to put index finger on top of cats head, saying firmly no and pushing gently down, so that cat goes against ground, there cat understands that action he did is not resulting as nice thing, but there is no tapping/hitting/hissing or anything like that, from my experience even shy cat then accepts quickly not to do such activity and most of mine have come and rubbed their head against my hand, kind of apology from being naughty, they have not got scared from it, but still have accepted to avoid such activity.

But whatever you choose, you must be predictable, sometimes allowing, sometimes not allowing is just confusing, it must be either yes or no completely, with kneading on face one could take policy of not touching face, that is probably easiest for them to understand, same for hair, always remember to be constant, they are much faster picking up bad habits than learning away from those, so even one slip will cause setback in learning process.

Schoo, schoo! is also one well understood word, saying it overly hissing kind of way is more familiar to them as word no, but they will learn to about.

Oh and actually one of young ones of mine that I have had to teach most as he is bit thick headed, seem to be most affectionate of them all now, so it is as it is which kids too, limits are safety and somehow make them trust you more, even it first might seem awkward a bit.

I honestly don't think she'll trust you any less. Cats are extremely intelligent and can usually tell what you are trying to communicate to them.

IMHO a spray bottle is much worst than a hiss. Hiss is means of communication for a cat - "No - I don't like this, STOP! or Stay back!", while a spray bottle is punishment - and you are the one spraying her still
Kneading means that she loves you and is a comforting thing for her.... you do not want to punish her for that..... it is not to say you couldn't say "NO" in a way they understand, IMHO.
My cat Bugsy does the same thing to me - only usually at 3am I Just put a blanket on his paws where he can do it safely - you can see it in this video:

Edited by Carolina - 1/4/12 at 7:17pm

I agree with the previous poster that getting her a cat friend may help. What she is doing is completely normal, plus she is still a kitten. Other than that, repeated no's in a stern voice has helped mine over time with Cooper who was notorious for scratching me badly when trying to climb my leg to get on my desk. I think it also helps that he is almost full grown and so he is confident he can get to the desk top on his own. So he doesn't need my leg. Jackson can't help himself when he is under the covers he just has to stretch his claws, so I started turning him so his back is towards my body instead of his feet LOL. 

Please note, my responses are in red front.

Please note, my responses are in red font.

 

 

In general, Servals are "hissy" cats. They unlike domestic cats, have many different hisses. They often hiss when happy and or playful. When my pure domestics, hiss at my F3, that only makes him more excited.

 

Please note, my responses are in red.
 

 

In my experience, Savannah do better with a friend. I am very much looking forward to getting my Loki a "like friend" . I am sure my domestics will be very happy too .
 

 

Please note, my responces are in red.

 

 

That's what I was going to say! A hiss is not going to make Neka fearful of you, any more than your parents telling you "stop" when you were a child made you fearful of them. I only hiss at my cat when she is aggressively using her claws against me. It used to happen pretty regularly, and now if she does it once a month it's surprising. And she still cuddles in my lap, purring while I pet her. She trusts me absolutely and is not afraid of me in any way. The other thing that I have found helpful is to watch for signals. Sometimes, even if Holland is still in my lap with her eyes closed, purring away, I can tell that it's time to stop petting her because she starts switching her tail. I've just learned over the years to stop petting at that point. If I continue, chances of her grabbing my arm with her claws increases greatly.

 

 

 

I think this is the redirection you're looking for for Neka... of course you don't want to stop her kneading because it is comforting to her, but in my experience, moving her paws to a more comfortable spot for you isn't going to hurt her feelings.

 

Anyway, that's my advice - if Neka is using her claws toward you in attack mode, hiss at her. If she is kneading in a spot that is uncomfortable/painful, move her paws. Her trust in you will not be broken.

I am personally a big fan of the spray bottle... I only sprayed a couple of times, then put it on mist, and the sound (which is like a hiss), plus the threat of water was enough to stop any bad behaviour. My Stumpy was a feet attacker in the middle of the night, and had other various bad behaviours, and the spray bottle was the only thing that worked for her.

Also they are quite individuals, not everything works for everyone. I forgot again one of my cats, but that is as I have needed to say no to him only once, he is so shy that he really don't do anything bad, for him simply saying no did mean that he did go hiding, but he does that even if I get up from chair, so can't make much out of his behaviour.

Same with squirting water, I had one that would not stopped even if he would become soaked wet, similar mixed breed (that is no breed at all, right?) than these others too.

Without knowing any better, I would think that starting with most subtle method and working up from there, but if there is some idea what kind of things particular cat is known to respond, then using that is of course good way to start.

Right.   It is well known, positive reinforcements are the best in the long run.  And should always be preferred when you do have any choice.

Tx very much for some nice examples!   Not all of them are widely known. Tx again!

 

But it is good to have a complete arsenal, and to know which negative signals you do have at your disposal, and how and when to use them.

Besides, for an everyday cat owner,  the negative responses are easier. Most "commoners" use them, like the wide spread advice about spraying bottle or to just shout...    So it is very good to analyse the all how and abouts here... To discriminate which are OK when appropriately used, and which are no no...

 

A  fantastic tread, with many participating, and very very many good suggestions and observations!!!

A tread well worth to be set up as "Sticky"  when we are ready with it.

Part of trust is knowing how far you can go and respecting the other person. Your cat will not trust you less if you communicate the limits of behaviour to her, in fact she will be reassured as to her place and status in the family. The difficult thing is to make her understand what is acceptable. And please do not get me wrong - I would NEVER advocate hitting an animal under any circumstances. Because your kitten is still young, I am only suggesting 'talking' to her like her mother would. You only have to watch a mother cat with her kittens to see that she keeps them in check with a variety of actions and sounds, and you can mimic these, using a finger or your voice.

 

 

Animals do not think along the same lines as humans. You are showing your cat that no matter what she does, you will never punish or dicipline her. How do you expect to get her to stop scratching you when you refuse to let her know she is doing anything wrong? Do you think mother cats are nothing but cuddles and licks? No, the mother cat is the one who teaches dicipline by scruffing, hissing, and generally being the boss. You would have trouble teaching a domestic cat to not claw you without some sort of dicipline, and I assume a savannah would be nearly impossible. It's great that your cat trusts you so much, but she won't listen to you if the worst thing you're going to do is give her an eskimo kiss.

 

I didn't want to hiss at or scruff my cats either, but I still had to find a way to let them know they were being bad. Since starting to scruff them, I have only had to do it twice for one cat and once for the other over the past year. I find that I do have to hiss at them every couple weeks, though. Cats are smarter than we give them credit for, and they figure out how to avoid situations they don't like (i.e. being scruffed/hissed at) by not being bad in the first place. FYI, both my cats became much more affectionate after I began hissing and scruffing. They now know I am the boss, and they basically suck up to me all the time. I love cats as much as anybody on TCS, but I still understand that we are the caretakers and parents of our pets and proper dicipline is part of rearing a life.

 

 

There is one thing I know for sure: only one animal in your apartment will be the alpha. You just have to decide if that is you or your cat. If it's your cat, then you better get used to having a clawed-up face. If it's you, you better get used to doling out light dicipline when it is needed.

You might try getting some type of little blanket, pillow, stuffed animal, something soft and fuzzy she would like to knead on and have that in bed next to you. Maybe when she starts kneading you, direct her towards the (blanket, whatever) instead?

I wonder, as grabbing cat from neck, releases endorphin (or some hormone that makes them feel more calm and reduces pain too), could it be that grabbing from scruff is actually working against saying no, bit like giving treat and saying bad kitty? Of course it does not necessarily work like that, but this did pop to my mind all of sudden.