Questions about commercial raw

feralvr

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NuMystic, yes, I now see I did read that wrong. :( I will be anxiously waiting Nerdock's reply. Thanks for PMing her Laurie. We need to know and this is a big concern. ARGH!!!!! :sigh:
 

numystic

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Which is why it makes NO sense that Nature's Variety would use it. I've PMd nerdrock, and I'm sure she'll get back to us again.
I have no clue why NV's customer service reps have bad information, but I hope the company will address it.
This goes beyond customer service reps and up to management, as that second email was only after the rep brought the question to their supervisor and got back to me. 

No one is suggesting that NV is "poisoning" pets with it's inclusion, any more than all the other premium cat food companies are when they use various ingredients or recipes that some people choose to avoid. Clearly NV doesn't think they are either by explicitly stating "This substance is generally recognized as safe for use at a level not exceeding two percent in accordance with good manufacturing or feeding practice."

Even so, "generally recognized as safe" extends to a myriad of things I and many others still don't want to feed our pets. 

Even if nerdrock does once again refute it, until I can get a response from the company in writing from an official email account I'm still going to be looking into alternatives. 

NV even asked me to share the link of this discussion so they can follow up with the employees who are disputing their official responses. Given the registration process here, and the use of handles rather than real names, I'm not sure how long clearing it up from their end will take though. 
 

ldg

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Wow, what an odd reaction from NV. :scratch:

Many pet food companies PAY people to join forums and provide this kind of information. You'd think they'd be grateful to an employee trying to do right by the company. :dk:

Of course they have to deal with the internal/external information issue. Either information provided in their training programs and that non-customer service reps have access to internally is wrong; or the information customer service reps have access to is wrong. Clearly there's an issue.

...But again, you'd think the company would be happy to have been alerted to the issue, and would want to get to the bottom of it, rather than try to figure out how to potentially chastise an employee trying to HELP, and doing a job many people get PAID to do. Very strange, indeed.
 

numystic

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Please let's not blow things out of proportion here. Just as no one said anything about "poisoning", no one said anything about chastisement either. NV requested a link to the discussion purely for the purpose of clarifying the facts about their products, not to scold or get anyone in trouble. Wanting to make sure the right information is shared in public forums is a mark of good public relations, why would you not applaud their wanting to get directly involved in a public discussion of their products?

And again this is not merely an error in customer service rep information. As I've stated twice already this issue was taken to management and this reply is the official response from them, not just the customer service dept. 

Does that mean it's accurate? I have no way of knowing. With a large enough company, even amongst management and administrators there can be crossed lines of communications and misinformation, but I'm sure that in the end we will all benefit as those with different information get together and sort out what the actual facts are. 

For all we know this may have all stemmed from a change in ingredients and everyone's information was accurate at some point. No one is being blamed or attacked for anything here, we're all just seeking accuracy in information which is of benefit to all.
 

numystic

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Well this is the email I just received from Nature's Variety following up:
I apologize for the confusion about the type of Montmorillonite Clay used in our diets.   I confirmed with our Senior Director of Research and Development that the Montmorillonite Clay we use is a combination of calcium and sodium.    Nature's Variety is committed to using high quality, safe ingredients.   We do not include any ingredients in our diets that are not healthy and serve a purpose to pets’ health needs.  

Sincerely,

Shannon

Consumer Relations

Nature's Variety

1-888-519-7387

www.naturesvariety.com
So that seems to at least explain the mixed messages, as both seemingly conflicting answers were "true" at least in part. 

Not really sure what to make of this myself. 

For what it's worth I did email back seeking further comment from the Senior Director on how the sodium clay serves a purpose in our pet's health needs, as the reply above left that question wiiiiiide open for the asking. I also pointed out how this new comment from them seems to contradict the "generally safe in quantities for 2% or less" that appears to acknowledge it's not a particularly good thing. Will update when I hear back. 

Being that I'm currently only using the Rabbit formula from NV which is already a bit dubious being china sourced I may just drop NV from my ever shrinking rotation. 

Hare-today sourced proteins are starting to look more and more attractive the more I read and learn. 

Thanks everyone for the crash course on healthy feeding. 
 
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Willowy

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Hare Today is super awesome!:D NV smells like Play-Doh and looks kinds of weird now that I've seen good ground meats :lol3:. Although my cats still like NV so I'll probably buy it now and then anyway. But I can't recommend HT enough--it's good stuff and they have terrific customer service. And no additives, unless you add them yourself. And the prices are fairly comparable to grocery store prices. . .less for some meats (I don't think I could find rabbit for $5 a pound anywhere else. And lamb is like $12 a pound at the store! :eek:) Even with shipping added.
 
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carolina

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Hare Today is super awesome!:D NV smells like Play-Doh and looks kinds of weird now that I've seen good ground meats :lol3:. Although my cats still like NV so I'll probably buy it now and then anyway. But I can't recommend HT enough--it's good stuff and they have terrific customer service. And no additives, unless you add them yourself. And the prices are fairly comparable to grocery store prices. . .less for some meats (I don't think I could find rabbit for $5 a pound anywhere else. And lamb is like $12 a pound at the store! :eek:) Even with shipping added.
I LOVE Hare Today Too :clap::clap::clap:
I think it is a GREAT alternative to commercial ground raw :bigthumb: GREAT selection, awesome, fresh meat, no additives, no veggies, nothing you don't need. Very good price :clap::clap::clap: and the kitties love it :nod:

Even though I don't feed ground anymore, my kids LOVE the hearts and the venison I buy from there.... And Now I am seriously considering the tripe too..... Their ground pancreas is excellent!
They are awesome! :clap::clap::clap:
 

jlc20m

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this is very frustrating and depressing. i'm looking for as natural canned cat food as possible without dangerous ingredients. why whould nature's variety put such a horrid ingredient into a otherwise "natural" pet food? makes no sense. back to wellness, innova, and evo for me. looking at weruva now as an add-on. yikes...

jlc20m
 
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Willowy

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this is very frustrating and depressing. i'm looking for as natural canned cat food as possible without dangerous ingredients. why whould nature's variety put such a horrid ingredient into a otherwise "natural" pet food? makes no sense. back to wellness, innova, and evo for me. looking at weruva now as an add-on. yikes...

jlc20m :kitty:
Like I said in another thread, there's always some ingredient to quibble over. Want to look up carageenan? Or menadione? Or. . .well, there's always something :lol3:. Only way to avoid it is to make your own raw diet, but then you have to think about what the animals were fed, how they were raised, etc. No diet is perfect. There's always something!
 

ldg

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Thanks for the informative post!

I received this information from NV just yesterday, actually:

Q: What kind of clay do you use in Nature’s Variety products?

A: We use Montmorillonite Clay (Hydrated Sodium Calcium Aluminosilicate) sourced from deposits in southern Utah. We have used this same natural source for many years.

Q: What is the difference between Sodium and Calcium Montmorillonite clays?

A: If you look at the chemical name for Montmorillonite Clay, (Na,Ca)0,3(Al,Mg)2Si4O10(OH)2•n(H2O), you will see both Sodium (Na) and Calcium (Ca) right at start of the chemical formula. If the given clay has a larger percentage of Sodium than Calcium, it is often shortened in descriptions to Sodium Montmorillonite. If the given clay has a larger percentage of Calcium than Sodium, it is often shortened in descriptions to Calcium Montmorillonite.
The source of the natural clay that we use in our products is higher in Calcium than Sodium and we could describe it as “Calcium Montmorillonite” but we elect to simply describe it as Montmorillonite Clay.
So we at least now have the mineral composition of the clay. :)
 
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numystic

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Was just about to post that exact email LDG which I received from them as well.

Ultimately I can't say that I'm entirely comforted by even the last reply, especially after the runaround they've given on the subject.

In the end, I've never in my life seen a human product with CLAY in the ingredients so regardless of it's use as a rather obscure supplement I'm going to avoid it.

It's not something on my NEVER feed list like some others, but I'll never allow it to be more than 20% of a rotation ever again. No matter how you slice it, it's just a filler/binder and if I absolutely have to have a food with something for that I'd rather it be something benign like Guar Gum that IS in countless human foods and has no documented concerns related to it. 

Even the "best" clay Bentonite which I've even used myself I would never ever use every single day, or recommend that anyone else do the same, so I'm not about to do that with my cats. Sure they have a different system, I wouldn't recommend feeding a human 96% meat diet either! LOL 

That said, I haven't seen anything anywhere that suggests felines have a unique biological feature which makes them uniquely suited to the consumption of clay every single day. 
 
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