Anyone using Atopica?

Hello ~

 Let me start by saying I recently found this site while searching the internet for info - this looks like a very caring, helpful place, and I'm glad I stumbled upon it!

 The background info;

 I have two cats, the same age (now 9). One has always been the picture of health (Zazu), the other delveloped chronic rodent ulcer a few years ago (Taz). I am inbetween vets now, I'm still using my regular vet, but I'm also using my emergency vet. We had an emergency visit about two and a half weeks ago because Taz suddenly developed what was diagnosed as cystitis. She's never had it before, or if she did it went unnoticed by me and resolved itself.

 Anyhow, the cystitis was treated antibiotis pills and by the end of the treatment she seemed fine. A bladder ultrasound was clear. Bacteria was very faintly present and the Dr. wasn't sure it didn't come from the exam table, since it wasn't a clean catch.

 The vet suggested trying Atopica for the rodent ulcer, and so far it's been a mess. I was told I could try putting the liquid on her food, many cats apparently eat it that way. Not mine.

 She ate half her food. Next time she wouldn't eat any of it. So I dispensed the liquid into her cheek pocket. She had the loose stools and vomiting I read I could expect. But also her cystitis behavior started again right away. That was yesterday morning. She only started eating again this afternoon. (with her normal hearty appetite). Also by this afternoon she was playing and acting normal. I called the vet, and a different Dr. told me to skip today's dose until I heard form the original Dr. that prescribed the Atopica. Tonight I was told (by word of mouth via a tech) to give her the doses as prescribed. The vet that prescribed it had two emergency calls and will call me tonight/tomorrow when she gets a chance, so I can go over all the details.

 I gave her the meds on a full stomach, and she has been going from litterbox to litterbox since. Behavior that she had pretty much stopped this afternoon. Some good news is that the first litterbox visit resulted in a normal amount of urine. Since her bladder is empty she just sits in the box passing only a drop or two now.

 She is a highstrung cat - she's been on clomicalm for two years or so for aggression towards the other cat. Both of them are strictly indoor cats. One of the things I'll be asking the vet tonight is if a higher dose of clomicalm might help. (she's on 2.5mg per day now). My concern is that the stress of being dosed the Atopica - which must taste horrible based on the face she makes - is triggerening the cystitis if it is stress induced. So far it's been 20 minutes or so, and she hasn't vomited up her food. She's supposed to take the Atopica daily for up to two months, then taper down to the every third day dose.

 Sorry for such a long intro, but I thought it would help to know a bit of background. So my question is; has anyone used Atopica here successfully?

Oh I am sorry! I know Momto4kitties tried it with her Lucas, but it made him vomit, and in the end she went back to using steroids instead of the atopica.

But I don't think there are members that have experience using it... I believe she had some left over, and offered it... but no one took her up on it. Hopefully she'll check in here!

Rodent ulcers are often a sign of an allergy. Treatment is often just steroids... which are anti-inflammatory, and usually clear them up pretty quickly without those side-effects. Cats typically tolerate steroids really well, even long term. Of course, identifying the trigger is the best, and using limited ingredient foods can narrow down the culprit.

So if atopica is causing so many issues... I think these are things/alternatives to discuss with your vet. :nod:

I'm sorry you are having trouble with your cat, poor kitty!
I have been using Atopica for my cat Mr Grey since September. He has eosinophilic granuloma complex with rodent ulcers and had sores/lesions on his back feet just below the ankles which he would lick and chew and also chewed/licked the fur off the backs of his front legs. He also had some intestinal inflammation and weight loss. Before that we were giving steroid shots about once a month because every time the steroid would wear off he'd start licking again and re-open the sores on his feet. We tried a lot of things including switching his diet to a rabbit-based allergy food. The diet change did help with the lip ulcers but not with the other symptoms. So we decide to try the atopica as an alternative to all the steroids. So far it's been very good, the sores healed and have not recurred, and he is starting to gain weight and not look so thin. He still does lick his front legs and has some hair loss there but my vet said that might have turned into a habit/compulsion now... I've never had any negative side effects with the Atopica so far. I use a liquid form and he HATES the taste but I just squirt it into his mouth.

Thanks for replying, LDG!

 I have been treating the ulcers in the past with a rotating combo of Depo shots, Clavamox, and therapy laser treatmants. My vets are concerned about the number of Depo shots she's had - this is an ongoing chronic condition for her. The last three rounds of laser had no effect, other than stressing her out. Rarely does she go for more than two months before the ulcers pop back up. My vets feel it is an autoimmune issue. I've brought up the possible allergy connection before, but they don't seem to think it can be narrowed down. My emergnecy vet feels the Atopica is less harmful to the cat in the long term (the literature is scary though). At least she is trying to tackle it as an allergy. She also convinced me to try a diet that is largely raw (BARF) and the cats absolutley love it! Except for the treats, they are now starch free. It's a start, and perhaps it will help if it's a food allergy. So far she is tolerating the Atopica well tonight - last time she had it on an empty stomach - the full stomach so far has kept her from vomiting. I've been pumping her full of treats to keep that belly full. If she blows tonight, it'll be a mess!

 I realize the feline approval for Atopica is somewhat new, but I'm hoping there may be people trying it who will see my post...

 Nekochan, that's very encouraging!

 My cat is getting the liquid too, I can tell it must taste terrible!  She weighs ten pounds, and she is getting 0.3mg per day. If it works on her lip ulcers, it will be worth every penny. She stresses so much over seeing the vet - seeing anyone, since she was a feral kitten. If I can treat her at home it will be so much better for her mental well being.

 I'm happy it is working so well for your cat - I hope it continues to!

I've heard of people who've had great success w/ Atopica - and others who had no luck w/ it at all. I know for many it can be cost prohibitive (I looked at it for my small Bichon & it was quite pricey).

One thing I'd ask your vet is this: What meds can be compounded into a transdermal gel? That's a medication you can apply directly to their skin to be absorbed. I know for me I can get most anything compounded. I have a kitty on Phenobarbitol. I get it compounded into liquid form, but can also get it in a transdermal gel.

Mr Grey weighs about 8 pounds and he is on 0.4 mL (it's 50 mg/mL). Yes I am sure it must taste awful, Mr Grey makes a horrible face when I give it to him. I think the one we have is Apple flavored, unfortunately the flavoring is limited. My vet said we might be able to lower the dosage pretty soon and if so I'm going to see if maybe we can use the pill form instead so it won't be so nasty-tasting.

Mr Grey hasn't had a steroid shot since early Sept so, so far so good (knock on wood!) At first it didn't seem to be helping but then I noticed it seemed like the stuff in the bottle was settling out of suspension (there was a bunch of sediment at the bottom) and so my vet said there may have been a problem with the batch we had, and replaced it...after that I started noticing improvement.

I haven't really been that diligent about giving it on a full stomach, although I try... Mr Grey is really picky and won't eat his canned food much of the time so I have dry food out for him. So sometimes I don't know if he's eaten for sure, but he's never gotten an upset stomach from the atopica. I try to give him canned food first but he won't always eat it.

Hello, as Laurie mentioned, my cat Lucas was on Atpica for some months, Lucas has food allergies and discoid Lupus.  The vet started him on Atopica to see if we could take him of Prednisolone, he has been on pred since 2007, but the Atopica caused him to vomit like 3 times  a day, I gave him Pepcid, and I tried giving it to him on a full stomach, but nothing helped, he still vomited and looked miserable.  I don't think it helped him anyway, what really helped Lucas was changing his diet to hypoallergenic food. 

Lucas took the capsules, not the liquid Atopica, he took the 25mg caps.  It was pretty easy giving them to him, he has taken pills for a long time and he is used to them.  I have 6 Atopica here and I wanted to give them to someone who needs them, but I see your kitty was prescribed the liquid.

I really hope the Atopica helps your kitty, I wish  your kitty could take the capsules, it will be easier than giving her that liquid that tastes so bad

Thanks for all the info!

When my Dr. prescribed the Atopica we were going to start with the 7ml bottle - it wasn't onhand so they told me I could order it, and it would arrive in a few days. Well, it turns out the med is backordered and the manufacturer has no idea when it will be available. So the vet sent me home with the only 5 ml bottle they had, saying it should last two weeks. When I asked what would happen if the Atopica wasn't available from the manufacturer by the time I run out, I was told this isn't a "weaning" med and my cat could stop & restart without a problem. Hopefully that is true. I told the emergency vet how easy Taz is to pill (for her initial antibiotic), so perhaps I can readdress this in regard to the Atopica. I do remember her saying the pill form was very large and a gel based capsule that could stick in her throat...y'know, it would be a good idea for me to buy a micro recorder to tape vet conversations - during an emergency visit it's easy to forget all that was said during the turmoil!

 Taz never did vomit since yesterday's dose, but her stools are soft - but not the runny loose ones from before. It would be nice if she adjusted to this med quickly! On another note, she is still showing the cystitis symptoms. A chat with my vet last night led to "wait & see if she improves on Sat., if not come in for anitbiotics and/or pain meds". Her litterbox antics haven't improved so I'll be doing that tonight. She did urinate a small amount last night on a white bathmat and the wet spot was totally clear. Even when dry. Now it may sound gross, but I left the mat down thinking if she's going to go outside the box, she might return to the mat and I can monitor the urine color. Today she did just that and it had the faintest "is-it-really-there" tinge of color, so I def will tell the vet & get what meds they recommend before a bacterial infection has a chance to settle in.

 On a positive note, she is otherwise acting normal - I know how well cats hide pain, discomfort, etc. but she is eager to play when I engage her, she has her normal hearty appetite, and she isn't hissing, growling, hiding, or otherwise acting out. I've taken up all the dry food (Wysong, my vet says a good choice) because both cats love wet food. The raw meat that I've been feeding is now taking center stage - Taz is getting mostly a prepared store bought brand because she turned her nose up at the raw meat after I dosed it with the Atopica. Slowly I've been adding some meat back into her store bought wet food and she's been ok with it. The store bought food is FreshPet Select - anyone heard of it? She really likes it so I hope it's ok!

 My vet says I don't have to add anything to the raw meat diet, but I do worry that there isn't enough minerals, vitamins, probiotics, taurine, etc. She says my worries are unfounded (probably based on my also feeding Wysong, which provides all this) I'm going to start reading up in the nutrition posts here on a raw diet to get a better sense of how to do this right...now my meat mix is from a butcher that processes organic USDA buffalo & beef that they themselves raise, with no antibiotic or hormone use (obviously). They mix the muscle meat, fat, organ meat, and shave the bone into a powder that gets mixed in - so no bone bits are present. They will also provide chicken necks which they will grind if you want.

 Sorry I ramble in such long posts - it's just so nice to find a cat forum where I can read and learn from all the different things cat folks are experiencing!

Hey coatfetish - I don't know if you want to go this route or not. But when a kitty we TNRd turn out to be FIV+, we adopted him. Because he was such a mess, and our regular vets (who are excellent!) weren't able to sort out his problems, we looked to see if we could find a vet - a DVM - trained in alternatives. Chumley had apparent allergies - he licked his abdomen clean of hair and had bald spots on his front legs; he also had gingivitis and a rodent ulcer on his lip - but steroids are contra-indicated for cats with FIV as they potentially have immune-related problems already; he also had chronic diarrhea, which nothing "normal" was resolving.

We found a vet trained in nutrition and chinese herbs. She had his diarrhea resolved in four days - his gingivitis and rodent ulcer gone at the next vet visit (a month later), and he was CLEARLY on the road to recovery as far as the allergies goes. This was all done with herbal treatments based on chinese medicine. His energy blockages, imbalances, deficiencies (chinese diagnosis stuff) are apparently all cleared up, and we keep him on a maintenance dose of one of the herbal pills (which isn't bitter and he eats in a pill pocket. In fact - it must taste OK, because if he eats the pill pocket and not the pill, one of our other cats will just eat it LOL). FYI, she feeds her cats a raw diet.

Sorry for the rambling... but my point is, our experience with this says to me that where western medicine fails - especially when it comes to immune-system problems - chinese medicine does a really good job. If you want to see if there's a vet trained in chinese meds near you, you can search for one at http://www.ahvma.org

Well, much to my surprise there is a holistic vet very close at the Virginia Tech vet school. When I asked around at work, many coworkers told me they bring their pets to Tech - I'll have to look into it.

For now the Atopica is called off. The vet that prescribed it finally said tonight that I should stop, until this cystitis bout passes. To be quite honest, I doubt that I'll start it again - if the cystitis is triggered by stress, it's much less stressful for Taz to get one Depo shot every few months rather than being force fed liquid meds every day, other day, or third day. I realize the potential problems the Depo can cause, poor Taz seems to be stuck between a rock & a hard place. The first bout started when she had 3 laser treatment, each 4 days apart. To get better access to the ulcers the tech would tap Taz in the muzzle (lightly) to get her to hiss - exposing the ulcer. I mentioned it to my vet and she said that wasn't necessary. The second bout  - the present one - started the same day I started her on the Atopica. I wonder how common it is to hear cystitis (without crystals) can be triggered by stress?

  I'm not sure how I feel about holistic medicine for cats but it can't hurt to talk to the vet & look into it. (not to sound like a jerk, but I feel that a certain percentage of it working on people is the mind convincing it is so. I do believe in the power of the mind to help heal or to help trigger illness - but how would that translate to a cat?)

 Now Taz is on Clavamox for the cystitis. Since the vet was unable to get a clean catch before, we don't know if there is bacteria present or not. On Taz's first emergency visit the Dr. saw no crystals in the small amount of urine she was able to attain, and the bladder ultrasound was clear. If this continues to be a chronic problem I'll leave Taz for the day so they can hopefully get a good urine sample for analysis. If we're going to stress her out, lets do it all in one day! In the meantime I'm going to ask my regular vet about the possibility of upping her Clomicalm - maybe that will help her manage her stress levels. Later, when I get some $$ back under my belt, I'll make an appointment to speak with the holistic vet.

 My regular vets feel her mental/physical health problems are 90% due to her being a feral kitten, and 50% due to heredity. I know that doesn't add up, but they feel she has a lot of problems! lol

 I know many of you send out good vibes to others (at first I thought the little smiley was vomiting something, until I saw it had arms - lol) and I would sure appreciate some good vibes for Taz!

Thanks folks!

 Cindy

coatfetish said:

  I'm not sure how I feel about holistic medicine for cats but it can't hurt to talk to the vet & look into it. (not to sound like a jerk, but I feel that a certain percentage of it working on people is the mind convincing it is so. I do believe in the power of the mind to help heal or to help trigger illness - but how would that translate to a cat?)

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It wouldn't, LOL. I TOTALLY understand the skeptical. We were - although I lean that direction. Hubby said "whatever." :lol3: But Chumley's diagnosis of "Extreme Yin deficiency," and "Extreme spleen Qi deficiency" ( :lol3: ) certainly yielded quick results with the treatment proffered. :dk: And obviously there's no "placebo" effect with a cat.

:dk:

The way we looked at it was... couldn't hurt to try it, because whatever we were doing and our regular vets were recommending just wasn't working. But that's why we wanted someone trained as a VET first, and alternatives second. So it WOULDN'T hurt to try it.

And I think all cystitis without crystals is caused by stress - even some WITH crystals. I can't imagine what having been a feral cat has to do with whatever's going on with her re: the cystitis. But there are quite a few TCS cats that deal with it. :nod:

And :lol3: when they first added the "vibes" smiley, I thought that too!

Sending VIBES, not vomit, to TAZ!

Hope 2012 will be her best year yet!

LDG said:

Sending VIBES, not vomit, to TAZ!

 

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LOL! That gave me a much needed laugh!

 I suppose if I knew more about holistic medicine, it wouldn't seem so far out to me. Your'e so right that placebos don't work on cats! Thanks for the link so I could actually FIND a holistic vet!

 And since it's getting late - Happy New Year!

Oh, and the thing about being feral - my regular vets feel her feral kittenhood exposed her to unknown terrors that shaped her high strung aggressive personality. She's a total cuddle-bunnie with me, but totally intolerant of other animals and people (although my best friend can hold and pet her, and she only sees her infrequently). It's true she goes into what might even be a mild seizure when animals get near her; spitting, drooling, staring into space with dilated eyes, but I think she's bad with people because she only gets to meet vets when she's sick. As much as I hate to say it, my regular vets perplex me. Taz gets good care, but the two vets are like night & day (they are a husband & wife team) The husband tells me it's not a big deal, Taz is scared due to being a feral kitten and it's typical for feral cats to bond with only one person. The wife always makes a point to tell me how "grouchy" Taz is. Once she told me "you just don't know what we have to go through with her". It makes me feel horrible. I finally mentioned it to her, asking if they wanted me to find another vet. She quickly became apologetic, saying Taz wasn't as bad as some cats they get - but just the other day when I was asking them about Atopica, she mentioned how "cranky a cat" Taz is. There was no need to even mention that! That's why she continues to see the emergency vet now too - whatever she feels about Taz, she keeps it to herself - lol. I forewarned her about Taz's temper, and she told me they had to sedate her to do the exam & ultrasound, but she said that was ok - she said every living thing, including us, has a fight or flight response. Taz's just happens to be the fight one. lol  It broke the ice & put me at ease...

Well, all of our 8 cats are feral rescues, and we have a feral colony, four of which are "friendly" enough now for us to get them vet care when they need it (the others either have to be sick enough to want help, or go back in the trap if we see they need it). Our ferals rescued as babies can be handled by the vet - mostly. One is like your Taz (though really, what can you expect with such a name? ), and that's our Tuxedo. Tuxie's "tuxedo" looks like he went to a black tie event, then afterwards went to a bar and got into a fight. :lol3: And that's his personality. And there is one vet we simply will not let see him.

I agree - if she has issues, she should keep them to herself. She knows your cat, you told them up front... it's not like you can do anything about it!

I don't know if I buy the feral part though. There are just too many cats that weren't born feral that don't like going to the vet or being handled by others. :lol3: It isn't unusual for ferals to bond with just one person - and how cats interact with other cats definitely has a LOT to do with how they experienced other cats when they were little. :nod:

So how's she doing? No more vomiting? :cross:

Most of my cats were born feral and they have no problem being handled by the vet (or anyone else). Then again 4 of them I caught at 3 weeks old, the other one was about 7 weeks old when I found him.
On the other hand, my cat Sneakers who was not feral-born is the grumpiest cat and she hates when the vet handles her. She will yowl and struggle and will bite if she doesn't like what they are doing. I often joke with the vet about how grumpy and cranky she is.  Of course she is the one who has to go to the vet the most often now that she is a senior and she has CRF and high blood pressure so she usually has to get handled extensively by them for BP and blood draw. She was grumpy before she ever had those problems though so it's not because of that, it's just that she's a very cranky cat.

Hi LDG!

 I got a kick out of your description of how Tuxie's tuxedo looks  

 Fortunately, no more vomiting. I've stopped the Atopica (for stress reasons - her tummy tolerated it fine on the second dose) and she's on day 3 of 7 for the Clavamox. I just stopped by & spoke with my regular vet, she wonders why the emergency vet chose Clavamox this time, since Taz had Baytril before - she was surprised Taz wasn't vomiting on the Clavamox. We talked at length about Taz's stress levels and she is going to look into her Clomicalm dose to see if it can be adjusted, but she also said there is another med we can try that leans more towards natural/holistic meds. Don't you know I already forgot what it's called! lol It's not Feliway or anything I've ever heard of before. It has a really common no-nonsense sounding name like "Stress Relief". We also discussed food, and I bought 3 cans of Hills C/D Multicare. She was disappointed that the emergency vet didn't make note of the urine's ph on the report, so she has to assume the ph was 6. I had asked the emergency vet about a diet for bladder health and she said Taz didn't need it - probably due to no crystals being present, I guess. Anyhow, Taz just ate some & seemed to really like it - I don't see how it can hurt. I fed it to Zazu, too (too lazy to prepare other food) and Zazu looked at me like I was crazy - lol.    She did eat, though.

 Today it the best Taz has looked in several days - she started acting more like her normal self when she woke me up at 5am - she usually sleeps in the bed but hasn't been since getting ill. This morning at 5 she decided she wanted to push Zazu out & be on the bed. That's normal! Also after eating just now she urinated enough to create a good sized clump. Not full size, but 3/4 of a full size clump.

  I officially belong to the "I'm so happy at what I see in the littlerbox!" club 

 I also called the natural food store I shop at & asked if I could return the unopened bags of dry cat food, and they said no problem. I guess it's wet food from now on!

Since I've mentioned Zazu, I think I should show a pic of her, too!

Nekochan, that's interesting to hear - I don't really know why Taz gets a bad rap for being a feral kitten. She's a bossy cat, and I have always thought how she acts is related to her natural personality combined with not being socialized (my fault, and I'll know better with my next cats) and being handled roughly at the vets. She does much better if I hold her, but she had to be sedated on her overnight emergency visit to be examined and have the ultrasound. If my vet ever wants to get blood, Taz will have to be sedated for that, too.

Yeah I don't think cats born feral deserve that type of reputation! My feral born babies are some of the nicest cats I know and Harlequin (one of the feral litter I rescued) is a TICA Quadruple Grand. Her brother is a blood donor (or was, he's on hiatus from that because he has rolling veins) and I want to get both of them into animal assisted therapy because they are so sweet.

I think some of that has to do with the fact that I bottle-fed them after I rescued them so they had fairly high amounts of human contact after they were taken from the "wild". Although in fact even though they were 3 weeks old when I found the litter, they actually hissed at me at first!

My cat Church is a little more "wild" but still quite tolerant of things like the vet. I think most of that is because he may have been a singleton so he had no other kittens to socialize with, I don't know for sure since I caught him as a 7 week old feral kitten but I never saw any other kittens with the mom.

Here's a photo of Harlequin with a judge at a cat show (they were giving her 1st place when I took the photo ) as you can see she is very tolerant!--

What an awesome photo!