This is going to be one for the books! Transitioning Lucky, Bugsy and Hope to Raw.... Challenges... - Page 3

Carolina,

I'm so happy to read about the big transition!  Congrats!

All of my cats are now 100% raw as of Wednesday.  They have all been at least 50% raw feeders for the last 2.5 years.  I even have become confident enough to make the food totally on my own using meat and supplements! 

Felix was my difficult one--my kibble addict.  It took a loooooooooooooooong time to transition him.  I started by adding just a pea sized meatball to his food and it was quite a long time before he would even eat THAT.  We slowly worked up from there.  He was my first kitty to go to 100% raw, although he still DEARLY loves to get 'hold of kibble when possible!

Hang in there.  It will take time and determination but you will eventually succeed.  Get ready for glossy coats and bright eyes!!!!

Take care,

C

Originally Posted by Carolina

...

I did find a little vomit with a little hairball in it - thought it was Lucky's and got immediately worried Definitely not hers - there were all these little pieces of bone in it..... and evidently Lucky doesn't eat raw..... So this was either Hope or Bugsy - don't know who, as I was sleeping. It was not a lot either - a little hairball, lots of tiny bones, and some liquid - the food had been digested, definitely did not throw up a meal.....
Now my question is...... are these pieces of bone getting stuck? Can they cause a blockage with the hairballs if enough of them get in there? Or they will throw them up before that happen?

The kitties will handle the hairballs just as they always do - either pass 'em (which should happen more and more frequently) or hork 'em. Sometimes food gets caught up in a horked-up hairball - I don't believe it's any more of a worry if it's pieces of raw than it would be if it were anything else you fed. And any bone that follows a hairball down the digestive tract should be digested in the normal process of things. Just keep an eye on the kitties as you would any time they toss up a hairball. 

Best regards.

AC

Carolina,

Felix has always been on a schedule.  We have dogs and there's no way to leave food out, if you know what I mean!  However, he'd always eaten 100% kibble, as he refused any and all attempts at even canned food, much less raw!  However, he became so obese, we HAD to do something, and once he began eating raw, he lost the weight!

Felix is a fish lover, so I think I even coated the pea sized lump in some bonito, or put a drop of salmon oil on it to tempt him.  One day Lucky will be really hungry and actually eat the tiny meatball, and then she'll be on her way.  Just be sure and go slowly with increasing its size.  I eventually was using kibble just as a "garnish" and with time, removed that kibble by kibble.  I'd say the whole process took 4-5 months!!!

Happy New Year to you and the kits!

I am SO loving this thread.  And every day I think...can I do this too?  Then I look at my 16 year old Sven and wonder ...can HE ever do that?  Gosh, it would be so good for him, I think  (he's CRF), but at his age, and having been on kibble almost his entire life...not sure if he'd be willing to change! 

Originally Posted by mrsgreenjeens 

I am SO loving this thread.  And every day I think...can I do this too?  Then I look at my 16 year old Sven and wonder ...can HE ever do that?  Gosh, it would be so good for him, I think  (he's CRF), but at his age, and having been on kibble almost his entire life...not sure if he'd be willing to change! 

You never know until you try!

Just like us, it's never too late to start eating well, and cats of any age can be transitioned to a raw diet. Sometimes they take to it quickly, like Bugsy and Hope, sometimes they need a little convincing, a la Lucky, but it can be done stress-free at any age.

Originally Posted by Carolina

Day 6 Starts with Good news!! The poop-o-meter says....... spice it up a notch mom!
Bugsy's poop, while not solid, was firmer than yesterday, formed, and a LOT less in volume - that was interesting

This is the benefit most cat owners get to enjoy directly - raw fed cats produce less waste and poop less frequently than their canned and - especially! -  kibble-fed counterparts. Even better, it's almost odorless. Just a physical sign that Bugsy's body is processing more of the food than it was before.

What a GREAT way to start the New Year!

AC

Originally Posted by Carolina

So, Auntie and the other Raw feeders out there - I posted these before, and I don't want them to get lost...... So I am reposting it

Originally Posted by Carolina

One question for the experience raw feeders out there about rotation, as I don't want them to get sick and tired of the food..... Consider Bugsy's sensitivity (which can be pretty extreme):
I am told to stay a week on Rabbit, then add the second protein - I am thinking Venison, since their wet foods was Venison (ZiwiPeak). Do I count that week from the time they started eating, or from the time they are eating 100%? I am assuming it is from the time they are 100% on it?
Then what happens? I feed only that new food for a whole week? One day one, the other day the old food? I am also assuming you start the second protein slow, like a transition? Or you just go on and do a full meal?
Also on rotation - how often should I change the food? again, considering Bugsy's sensitivity?
Thanks, and sorry for all the questions.....

I am also adding this question - seems that we are moving along here and soon we will be on 100% raw.
Bugsy NEEDS to lose weight.
I am shooting for 16lbs as optimum weight at first - I think that's where he should be..... If he is still fat, then we go further.....
Now, I hear that he will crave carbs, and that you start feeding a bit more of the raw in the beginning because of that.

On Nature's Variety, for 19lbs, He needs to be fed: 5.4oz a day
If I feed him based on his lean weight, 16lbs, he will be fed this: 4.7oz

How much do I feed him, once I turn into 100% - considering I do want him to lose weight, but also wanting to do this safely? (the above qtys are based on their food, of course..... here is the calculator: http://www.naturesvariety.com/feedguide
Thanks

I suggested staying on each new protein for a week or so to ensure Bugsy has time to acclimate to each one, and you have time to identify which ones he can / can't tolerate. From what I've seen in this thread so far, however, Bugsy reacts pretty quickly to a food he can't handle; given that, you can drop the initial intro of each new protein down a bit, if you want. It doesn't have to be a specific count - just an assurance he and Hope are ok with the protein.

Normally, I'd say each new protein can be offered as a full meal as a first intro, but given your particular situation, I'd push "slow". First a quarter of the food, then half the food, then three-quarters, then a whole meal.

Once a food's been introduced, it can be added to the rotation - and those foods can be rotated at every meal just like canned.

Bugsy isn't going crave carbs; what MIGHT happen is that his body recognizes in the raw what it's been missing in previous foods and he may feel the need to eat a LOT to begin with. Most cats that go through this level out and start eating normally after a few weeks or so.

I don't know how NV calculates their "recommended" feeding amounts. Using the raw feeders calculator, Bugsy should get 7.75 ounces of food a day at his optimal weight of 16 pounds, and 9 ounces at his current weight (using 3%). Personally, I'd start with 8 ounces a day and just watch Bugsy. If his weight maintains or increases, reduce the amount by half an ounce or so, if he begins to lose weight, make sure it's no more than a couple of ounces a week, adjusting his food intake accordingly.

AC

Originally Posted by Carolina

...
 

She ate not only one, but came back and ate a second!!!!!

...

She did not eat the last one, but continued eating her kibbles, and was not put off by it
OMG this is HUGE She had a good size meal, and is doing good on getting on a schedule
Go Lucky! Make momma Proud!

That's awesome, Carolina! I knew the Halo would help. Whoot, whoot!!!!!

For the food temperature, I have 2 questions:
I am feeding it cold to touch - I just spread the food on the plate and that helps to bring the temperature up a bit.

I also read that bringing the temperature of the meat to a "mouse temperature" can help them to like the food better - should I just do that on a ziplock bag under warm water?

and finally, my last question:
Hope and Bugsy are not fast eaters - they like eating, moving, then eating again. Especially Bugsy - he is OCD about his mane So he has to have it 100% clean, stoping quite a few times to have a niiiiiice bath, thinking about life..... then resuming eating.
Basically, for how long is it safe to leave the plate down with raw food, once it is served? I know that's probably a stupid question, but it is important for me to know...... If I give their time or if I push them to eat, for example.....
Thanks, and will update next meal!

Yes, you can run a ziplock bag under warm water, or soak it in a bowl of warm water. In fact, this is preferable to spreading the food out on the plate, as that makes it more difficult for them to eat (it's commonly used to slow down fast eaters).

Most of the recommendations I see suggest picking the food up after 30 minutes.

By the way - didn't you give Bugsy Halo before and he was fine? It wasn't until you fed him Stella and Chewy's that he had an issue, correct? I'd be inclined to try him again with the Halo, since it seems to be a favorite of all of them.

AC

Originally Posted by Carolina

Originally Posted by Auntie Crazy 

I don't know how NV calculates their "recommended" feeding amounts. Using the raw feeders calculator, Bugsy should get 7.75 ounces of food a day at his optimal weight of 16 pounds, and 9 ounces at his current weight (using 3%). Personally, I'd start with 8 ounces a day and just watch Bugsy. If his weight maintains or increases, reduce the amount by half an ounce or so, if he begins to lose weight, make sure it's no more than a couple of ounces a week, adjusting his food intake accordingly.

NV calculates also depending on how sedentary he is - which my goodness - Bugsy is the cat version of a couch potato So I guess it might be it? Could their food be more caloric?
Here is Rabbit:
Calories
65 per oz http://www.naturesvariety.com/InstinctRaw/cat/rabbit
If he eats 8 oz..... I am afraid it is going to be too much calories at 520 a day? My goodness, that's a LOT of calories!
Maybe they just pack pack pack their meat when they grind it?
5.4oz = 351...... which is probably more in line with 20 calories per lb?
What do you think?

Well, again, it's not about calories, it's about where those calories come from. Every single protein-sourced calorie is going to be converted into building blocks for body repair or directly into energy. None of those calories are ever stored.

Fat calories can be stored, however, cats need 25-35% of the diet to be supplied as fat.... you'd have to really get crazy with the fat content to make a raw-fed cat gain weight.

Whatever number you choose to start with, let your cats guide you. And if you choose to reduce their portions, remember to do it slowly, ok? If I recall correctly from your first couple of posts, Bugsy is eating two and a half cans a day? That's 13.75 ounces.... if you reduce that too drastically (regardless of what you're feeding), Bugsy's probably not going to be a happy camper.

Let his body adjust to the new diet, and let his body condition and energy level guide you as to portions (remembering that his energy levels are likely to pick up as he adjusts to a fully raw diet).

Much good luck and many vibes continue to flow your way!!!

AC

Originally Posted by Carolina

Originally Posted by Auntie Crazy

Well, again, it's not about calories, it's about where those calories come from. Every single protein-sourced calorie is going to be converted into building blocks for body repair or directly into energy. None of those calories are ever stored.

Fat calories can be stored, however, cats need 25-35% of the diet to be supplied as fat.... you'd have to really get crazy with the fat content to make a raw-fed cat gain weight.

Whatever number you choose to start with, let your cats guide you. And if you choose to reduce their portions, remember to do it slowly, ok? If I recall correctly from your first couple of posts, Bugsy is eating two and a half cans a day? That's 13.75 ounces.... if you reduce that too drastically (regardless of what you're feeding), Bugsy's probably not going to be a happy camper.

Let his body adjust to the new diet, and let his body condition and energy level guide you as to portions (remembering that his energy levels are likely to pick up as he adjusts to a fully raw diet).

Much good luck and many vibes continue to flow your way!!!

AC

No, he is not - he is eating 1 1/2 can a day (of the 5.5 oz, so 8.25oz) - The ziwiPeak recommendation was way TOO MUCH (which is usually the case with manufacturers, anyways ). I went back and checked the calories.... and I am feeding him accordingly. Bugsy would never eat 2 1/2 cans a day. I have updated the thread since then - not in the same post, but I have.... Which in calories, not in volume, is less than the raw I am going to feed. And about availability on the raw.... Shouldn't he eat even less then? Isn't that the typical case?

Huh. Missed the updated post. (I thought 2.5 cans was an awful lot of food.)

In any case, the only way to know what he'll need is to try him out. If he's eating 8.25 ounces of food a day, I'd say just keep feeding him close to that amount until you see what his weight's gong to do, then adjust accordingly. We can talk theoretically all day, but at the end of the night, each kitty has its own metabolism and that's what will ultimately determine how much food he needs.

I'm sorry I can't be more specific. The raw fed starting amount is almost always just an informed guess, subsequently adjusted per each kitty's needs.

AC

Originally Posted by Carolina

Yeah - it was extreme.... I think he would go Capooch! Besides, he would never eat that much wet to begin with..... So I had to do my research and turn to calories....
Anyways.... I can start feeding him ounce per ounce, now, since we are transitioning, and see how he does....
Then I can adjust it from there to NV's recommendation.....

But for goodness sakes, he will not gain weight, right? I mean...... he can't lick his butt at this point...... I need him to lick his butt
I know, sad... But true! all that hair there doesn't help the boy's case either, to be fair!

Oh, that's hysterical. I totally LOL'd.

I can't speak for his transition time, but once he's on raw, it's extremely unlikely - not impossible, just highly unlikely - that he'll put on additional poundage. In fact, I'd venture that within a month after a full transition, you're going to see some of that excess weight start dropping off him.

AC

What a wonderful, wonderful transition you're enjoying Carolina! How very exciting - and rewarding! - to see Bugsy and Hope taking to the raw so eagerly; and even Lucky, after only a couple of tries, is beginning to eat it.

I have to tell you - it warms my heart to watch Bugsy go from 18 solid months of diarrhea to an ever-increasingly normal poop.... I can't even imagine how it must make you feel.

Well, actually, with the super-sized ALL-IN-CAPS text liberally sprinkled with cheering, bouncing emoticons, I guess I can at least make a good guess.   LOL!!

Keep up the great work, you three!!!!!!!!!

AC