This is going to be one for the books! Transitioning Lucky, Bugsy and Hope to Raw.... Challenges Gal

No errands..... I work out of my home...... Lunch break right now........ Driving me nuts..... But what is driving me crazier, and breaking my heart, is knowing that she IS hungry.... because she didn't eat, you know?
The others do beg foor treats when I go to the kitchen and I don't feel bad..... But I know My poor Lucky is suffering some serious hunger pangs

Carolina said:

Thanks :hug:
I am so sorry about Little Perla Good thing is I understand they already like the good stuff?
Yes, I defrost in the fridge - but it takes a LONG time to defrost - for instance - in the package it says that the patty would defrost in about 8 hours overnight? Solid rock! So what I do, Is I put it in a ziplock bag and in a container filled of cold water - and defrost enough only for that serving (Use the spoon to remove the surface, but the center will still be frozen) the rest I goes back to the fridge in to a sealed glass container (still in the ziplock bag)...
With Rad Cat, since it is a little Tub, it takes even longer - that thing can be there for a couple of days I think and would still be frozen - I put in a ziplock bag and inside of a cold water container.... It doesn't take a very long time.....
Cold water is safer than warm water, as with warm water you run the risk of bacteria reproducing :nod:
Then the rest goes back in the fridge.
I like feeding within a day or at the most 48 hours.
I was told that it can be kept for 3-4 days....
NV recommends 24 hours from the time it is defrosted - but in my experience, the meat is always somewhat frozen anyways..... so....
Ah, and I also read that you can defrost in cold water, take what you need and immediately refreeze the rest - I believe I read this from Feline's Pride - but don't quote me on that.... As long as you do it immediately, there is no problem, and no loss of nutrients - if you feel more comfortable that way... it is something you can definitely do.....
Never ever just defrost on the counter though - always on the refrigerator, or for a few minutes on cold water

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Thank you... I feel then I have been doing this properly :lol3: It DOES take almost 24 hours to totally defrost in my fridge. BUT I take what is defrosted off of the chunk and put it back in the fridge. The Bravo I purchased for Wilbur comes in a large chub. So what I have done - is put that chub in the fridge for about 12 hours so the edges are just a tiny bit thawed. THEN I take the chub out (I keep it in it's original wrapper) and use a very, very sharp serrated knife and cut it into sections - the size that I would go through in a day. I then wrap each cut section, which is still quite frozen except the edges, in aluminum foil and place those wrapped sections in a large freezer bag and put back in the freezer. I take out a frozen section once daily and then it is ready to feed the next day. Here is what concern's me..... when I go to unwrap the thawed section of meat from the tin foil - the outside is brownish in color :dk:. The inside is nicely red. That is what got me thinking that I probably shouldn't "slightly" defrost the large chub to cut it into feeding portions. Maybe that slight thawing and then refreezing causes the brown color to the meat. :dk: HMMMMMMMMMMMM Auntie ??? What do you think about how I do this - good or not good....

I think I will not buy chubs because I cannot go through a whole chub in the matter of 48 hours which I feel is the longest I want to leave the raw food in the fridge. I am headed out soon to the Natural pet food store and will be asking them to order in the Primal and Rad Cat for me to try. It is much easier the way NV does it with the patties and the raw meat already pre-cut in their packages.

Carolina said:

I can't give in I can't give in I can't give in I can't give in I can't give in I can't give in I can't give in I can't give in I can't give in I can't give in I can't give in I can't give in I can't give in I can't give in I can't give in
I know Lucky is SO hungry as she didn't eat anything..... she is begging for food and dinner is still 4 hours away
This is SO hard It breaks my heart

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OMgosh - I don't how I could deal with that..... YIKES - you poor meowmy..... A teeny Halo treat :dk:.... I admire your strength :lol3:

Carolina said:

No errands..... I work out of my home...... Lunch break right now........ Driving me nuts..... But what is driving me crazier, and breaking my heart, is knowing that she IS hungry.... because she didn't eat, you know?
The others do beg foor treats when I go to the kitchen and I don't feel bad..... But I know My poor Lucky is suffering some serious hunger pangs

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What a difficult part of this transition for sweet Lucky.... I hope she will eat well for the next meal then. Can you go out somewhere for a few hours - work from your car .... COME ON - hurry up - four hours :dash:

Feralvr said:

Thank you... I feel then I have been doing this properly :lol3: It DOES take almost 24 hours to totally defrost in my fridge. BUT I take what is defrosted off of the chunk and put it back in the fridge. The Bravo I purchased for Wilbur comes in a large chub. So what I have done - is put that chub in the fridge for about 12 hours so the edges are just a tiny bit thawed. THEN I take the chub out (I keep it in it's original wrapper) and use a very, very sharp serrated knife and cut it into sections - the size that I would go through in a day. I then wrap each cut section, which is still quite frozen except the edges, in aluminum foil and place those wrapped sections in a large freezer bag and put back in the freezer. I take out a frozen section once daily and then it is ready to feed the next day. Here is what concern's me..... when I go to unwrap the thawed section of meat from the tin foil - the outside is brownish in color :dk:. The inside is nicely red. That is what got me thinking that I probably shouldn't "slightly" defrost the large chub to cut it into feeding portions. Maybe that slight thawing and then refreezing causes the brown color to the meat. :dk: HMMMMMMMMMMMM Auntie ??? What do you think about how I do this - good or not good....
I think I will not buy chubs because I cannot go through a whole chub in the matter of 48 hours which I feel is the longest I want to leave the raw food in the fridge. I am headed out soon to the Natural pet food store and will be asking them to order in the Primal and Rad Cat for me to try. It is much easier the way NV does it with the patties and the raw meat already pre-cut in their packages.

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I read that the brownish color is a tiny amount of freezer burn and actually doesn't really affect the nutritional amount, nor indicate bacterial deterioration, etc- it is not that the meat has gone bad, or anything like that .... It won't really happen to poultry though - or so I read :nod:
If you feel uncomfortable, just cut that part off and feed it, but it is not problem :nod:
Per my readings, you are doing precisely what you are supposed to do.... :nod:
The smaller packages are just less of a drag :lol3:

Feralvr said:

What a difficult part of this transition for sweet Lucky.... I hope she will eat well for the next meal then. Can you go out somewhere for a few hours - work from your car .... COME ON - hurry up - four hours :dash:

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No kidding - awful
The only reason why I don't want to give into the treats today is because the lady is smaaaart...... I don't want her to think she can fool me into not eat her scheduled meals for Halo treats :nod:
I want her to have a good meal tonight :nod:

I am singing this mantra in my head: "Pretend she is just fasting to go to the dentist"

Originally Posted by Carolina

No errands..... I work out of my home...... Lunch break right now........ Driving me nuts..... But what is driving me crazier, and breaking my heart, is knowing that she IS hungry.... because she didn't eat, you know?
The others do beg foor treats when I go to the kitchen and I don't feel bad..... But I know My poor Lucky is suffering some serious hunger pangs

Click to expand...

You can totally offer her a bite or two of the halo-coated raw when she's begging, Carolina... she might think she's getting a special treat, or she might be hungry enough to just take it.... but even if she leaves it, it'll help in your efforts to convince her raw is food. (Getting her to eat it is worth the slight deviation from her scheduled feedings.)

Originally Posted by Feralvr

...
Here is what concern's me..... when I go to unwrap the thawed section of meat from the tin foil - the outside is brownish in color

. The inside is nicely red. That is what got me thinking that I probably shouldn't "slightly" defrost the large chub to cut it into feeding portions. Maybe that slight thawing and then refreezing causes the brown color to the meat.

HMMMMMMMMMMMM Auntie ??? What do you think about how I do this - good or not good....

...

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This happens a lot with ground meats, Lauren. Although thawing and re-freezing does degrade the nutrient content, you're only talking about a small part of the amount fed, and the degraded portion - although we don't have any studies identifying it's extent - is still considerably healthier than processed foods. Try to thaw as minimally as possible, mix the brown portion in with the bright red meat and don't worry about it. 

Regards.

AC

Auntie Crazy said:

You can totally offer her a bite or two of the halo-coated raw when she's begging, Carolina... she might think she's getting a special treat, or she might be hungry enough to just take it.... but even if she leaves it, it'll help in your efforts to convince her raw is food. (Getting her to eat it is worth the slight deviation from her scheduled feedings.) Okay - the poor thing is waiting for me in the kitchen.... will make some for her :nod:


This happens a lot with ground meats, Lauren. Although thawing and re-freezing does degrade the nutrient content, you're only talking about a small part of the amount fed, and the degraded portion - although we don't have any studies identifying it's extent - is still considerably healthier than processed foods. Try to thaw as minimally as possible, mix the brown portion in with the bright red meat and don't worry about it. 

Regards.

AC

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The freezing process itself does not destroy nutrients. In meat and poultry products, there are little changes in nutrient value during freezer storage. But enzyme activity can lead to the deterioration of food quality. Enzymes present in animals, vegetables and fruit promote chemical reactions, such as ripening. Freezing only slows the enzyme activity — it does not halt these reactions which continue after harvesting. Enzyme activity does not harm frozen meats or fish.⁴

Proper packaging helps maintain quality and prevents freezer burn. It is safe to freeze meat or poultry directly in its supermarket wrapping, but this type of wrap is permeable to air. Unless you will be using the food in a month or two, overwrap these packages as you would any food for long-term storage. Use airtight heavy-duty foil, freezer plastic wrap or freezer paper, or place the entire package inside a freezer plastic bag. It is not necessary to rinse meat and poultry before freezing. Freeze unopened vacuum packages "as is." If you notice that a package has accidentally been torn or opened while food is in the freezer, the food is still safe to use — just overwrap or re-wrap it.

Freezer burn does not make food unsafe, merely dry in spots. It appears as grayish-brown leathery spots and is caused by air reaching the surface of the food. You can cut freezer-burned portions away. Some may discard heavily freezer-burned foods for quality reasons.

Color changes can occur in frozen foods. The bright red color of meat as purchased usually turns dark or pale brown depending on its variety. This may be caused by lack of oxygen, freezer burn or abnormally long storage. Freezing doesn't usually cause color changes in poultry.http://feline-nutrition.org/health/whats-in-your-freezer-safe-handling-practices

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Just checking in.  Darn, I am so disappointed that I shouldn't try my store bought ground turkey (for tonights tacos) onmy babies to get their reaction.  But never fear, we eat LOTS of chicken, so next time we do, I'll cut off a little bit and bit it in my Miracle Bullet to grind it up and see what they think.  Can't wait.  However, just as an FYI, so far Sven is the only one who likes the Halo freeze dried chicken bits.  But, since I bought them mainly for him, thats ok .  I just hope that isn't a sign of what's to come when I start this process myself.  Have to wait until we're back from vacation though, then have to get them on a scheduled feeding, etc, etc, etc. 

:touch: Coincidence or not..... This simply did not happen before feeding raw.... I can't explain why the changes.... But Bugsy is no longer a loner :touch: He now has company - he plays, gives and receives love :touch: I am SO happy for my little boy
I just walked into my room, and this is what I saw:



I expected many health changes.... But I was not expecting this wonderful bonus :heart3:

Originally Posted by Carolina

Coincidence or not..... This simply did not happen before feeding raw.... I can't explain why the changes.... But Bugsy is no longer a loner

He now has company - he plays, gives and receives love

I am SO happy for my little boy

I just walked into my room, and this is what I saw:



I expected many health changes.... But I was not expecting this wonderful bonus

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What a lovely, heartwarming sight. Bugsy's more sociable now that he's feeling better.... how absolutely wonderful, Carolina.

AC

what a sweet picture!  OMG I guess he was a loner because he was always feeling so sick, the poor baby! I"m just tooo happy for you and your kitties Carolina!  Yay!

Lucas has been very sad too  lately, I wish he accepts raw soon so I can see some changes 

Yeah..... I guess seeing them so well makes you really look back and realize that he was not feeling good at all
I am so glad he is over the that hurdle now

I had a little poop-o-meter scare today with him :shocker:
He was sitting licking his butt after the going potty and I wen inspect - BIG poop stuck in there..... OH NO, I thought - It is back
Ran and got the paper towel to clean him up........ It was just regular poop that had gotten stuck for some odd reason :high5: Whew! I went to the litter box and the rest was there....... all formed and perfect
I do think Rad Cat is better for him - his poop is tiny, formed and solid, but not as dry, hard and crumbly like when he is on NV - I think it is more natural for him - easier to pass, perhaps :dk: It surely looks more natural to me :dk:
But...... doesn't look as light as NV's poop - sorry for the gross factor everyone.....
Auntie - is there something wrong here, or is this the bone meal vs bone difference that we are seeing?

It is perfect though And he is holding his own with only one probiotic - he is off all other supplements

Anyways - enough of poop!

We had a great meal tonight - Thank Goodness!
I did give in and make some raw treats for everyone in the afternoon - Lucky is getting finicky on them - I think she ate around two of them though. Good news is, she will chew them.... bad news is, if they are big, she will spit them off As long as I feed them small, she will eat them.

Tonight I will try making them with the Turkey (Rad Cat) - I will take some of the juice out with a paper towel, so I can roll them - the meat is too juicy.... Let's see if she likes that :nod:

Lucky was STARVING at dinner - she ate 1/4 cup of her dry food on one sitting She only ate one of the treats, but chewed on the other two, and spit them off - at least she did that :nod:
She also didn't care a bit that the spit off raw was right in the middle of her plate - I did not take it away either, on purpose..... She just ate around it,and kept eating.... ate ate and ate so much I was afraid of her throwing up. She was burping afterwards :lol3: But she kept all in - no problem there :bigthumb:

Hope and Bugsy got 50/50 rabbit NV and Turkey Rad Cat - Again, it is taking very little fortiflora...... Same same...... only for Hope to start and for Bugsy to finish - and they are licking their plates spotless clean now..... Hope just can't get enough - I think if I put 10oz of raw meat in front of her, she will explode, but she will eat it :nod:

let's hope we have a great meal later tonight with Lucky - tomorrow I start her on 50/50 Evo - yey!!

Carolina said:

No kidding - awful
The only reason why I don't want to give into the treats today is because the lady is smaaaart...... I don't want her to think she can fool me into not eat her scheduled meals for Halo treats :nod:
I want her to have a good meal tonight :nod:
I am singing this mantra in my head: "Pretend she is just fasting to go to the dentist"

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:lol3: Like I said - you are a STRONG-willed momma and you are right - you must outwit Lucky too. :rofl: Love the mantra.......

Carolina said:

:touch: Coincidence or not..... This simply did not happen before feeding raw.... I can't explain why the changes.... But Bugsy is no longer a loner :touch: He now has company - he plays, gives and receives love :touch: I am SO happy for my little boy
I just walked into my room, and this is what I saw:

I expected many health changes.... But I was not expecting this wonderful bonus :heart3:

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Another HOW ABSOLUTELY BEAUTIFUL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! They look like angora pillows too . I am SOOOOOO happy for all of you - NOW that is ONE Happy Cat Family :heart3: :heart4: :heart2:

P.S. PHEW on the poop-o-meter scare....... YAY for good BUGSY poop!!!!! :happy3:

Carolina said:

I read that the brownish color is a tiny amount of freezer burn and actually doesn't really affect the nutritional amount, nor indicate bacterial deterioration, etc- it is not that the meat has gone bad, or anything like that .... It won't really happen to poultry though - or so I read :nod:
If you feel uncomfortable, just cut that part off and feed it, but it is not problem :nod:
Per my readings, you are doing precisely what you are supposed to do.... :nod:
The smaller packages are just less of a drag :lol3:

Click to expand...

Thank you!! I spent a lot of time at the natural food store today :lol3:. Stacey explained to me about the discoloration and that is very typical and not to thaw all the way and then refreeze - takes away from the nutrient's. I decided on trying the Nature's Logic rabbit raw (cats/dogs). They are going to order in some Rad Cat for me too. They don't carry it only because they are very short on space in the store. They sell mostly NV, Bravo, Nature's Logic, Primal (which I picked up some Duck ), and VitalEssential's. I really like the Nature's Logic, it was about $20.00 for three pounds of the rabbit patties.

Can I share my exciting news too - don't want to take away from your babies though :anon: BUT>>>>>> the Fortiflora came and (yes, another) PERLA ate a wonderful 1/2 Nature's Logic raw rabbit pattie and her wet EVO. I mixed it together and sprinkled on the Fortiflora.... It worked. This is the best meal she has eaten like that in week's. AND.................drum roll......................PIPSQUEAK ate some Nature's Logic raw rabbit too, mixed in with his wet and Fortiflora on top. Everyone had a bit of raw red meat with their meals tonight for the first time ever. Usually I would just offer some to the cat's that circle around when I am feeding Wilbur. Again, thank you for this thread - it is giving me and I am sure many other's that are reading it the necessary information we need to get started or at least try

p.s. I do wear disposable gloves too when handling the raw meat - and am trying to be very careful with keeping area's/bowls/dishes clean and disinfected.

Auntie Crazy said:

You can totally offer her a bite or two of the halo-coated raw when she's begging, Carolina... she might think she's getting a special treat, or she might be hungry enough to just take it.... but even if she leaves it, it'll help in your efforts to convince her raw is food. (Getting her to eat it is worth the slight deviation from her scheduled feedings.)


This happens a lot with ground meats, Lauren. Although thawing and re-freezing does degrade the nutrient content, you're only talking about a small part of the amount fed, and the degraded portion - although we don't have any studies identifying it's extent - is still considerably healthier than processed foods. Try to thaw as minimally as possible, mix the brown portion in with the bright red meat and don't worry about it. 

Regards.

AC

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Thank you SO much, Auntie. I appreciate you answering my question here in Carolina's thread. I am planning on not buying chubs anymore. I prefer the packages that have the patties and the meat already all portioned out. Much easier. :nod:

Feralvr said:

Thank you!! I spent a lot of time at the natural food store today :lol3:. Stacey explained to me about the discoloration and that is very typical and not to thaw all the way and then refreeze - takes away from the nutrient's. I decided on trying the Nature's Logic rabbit raw (cats/dogs). They are going to order in some Rad Cat for me too. They don't carry it only because they are very short on space in the store. They sell mostly NV, Bravo, Nature's Logic, Primal (which I picked up some Duck ), and VitalEssential's. I really like the Nature's Logic, it was about $20.00 for three pounds of the rabbit patties.
Can I share my exciting news too - don't want to take away from your babies though :anon: BUT>>>>>> the Fortiflora came and (yes, another) PERLA ate a wonderful 1/2 Nature's Logic raw rabbit pattie and her wet EVO. I mixed it together and sprinkled on the Fortiflora.... It worked. This is the best meal she has eaten like that in week's. AND.................drum roll......................PIPSQUEAK ate some Nature's Logic raw rabbit too, mixed in with his wet and Fortiflora on top. Everyone had a bit of raw red meat with their meals tonight for the first time ever. Usually I would just offer some to the cat's that circle around when I am feeding Wilbur. Again, thank you for this thread - it is giving me and I am sure many other's that are reading it the necessary information we need to get started or at least try
p.s. I do wear disposable gloves too when handling the raw meat - and am trying to be very careful with keeping area's/bowls/dishes clean and disinfected.

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Oh yeah - Stacey was right - you should defrost only enough to either cut it or get what you need - when I am defrosting on cold water, for example, I only defrost the surface - enough to scrap it off with a spoon :nod: The rest is still frozen - I don't refreeze it because they are eating whole meals already so I just use it up :nod: - but no no for defrosting the whole thing :nod:

for all of them eating the raw!!! Yey for Perla and Pipsqueak!! Yeah - Fortiflora is a great tool to have in a transition for sure, as well as when kitties go off food, like little Perla :heart3:
I was even afraid they were going to be SO addicted to it, I would need to call Purina and order a personal supply of Animal Digest :lol3: But it turns out, that once they get the taste of the real stuff and get to love it....... They start to need less and less of it - I am using very little of it now - just a tiny sprinkle per meal... One packet lasts for several meals now :nod:
It has been a God Send for sure. Not my probiotic of choice..... But certainly my transition tool of choice! (just wish Lucky liked it :slant
I can't wait to hear more about your babies progress!!!

Carolina said:

:touch: Coincidence or not..... This simply did not happen before feeding raw.... I can't explain why the changes.... But Bugsy is no longer a loner :touch: He now has company - he plays, gives and receives love :touch: I am SO happy for my little boy
I just walked into my room, and this is what I saw:

I expected many health changes.... But I was not expecting this wonderful bonus :heart3:

Click to expand...

Oh Carolina! :heart3: :heart3: :heart3:

I'm just ... amazed!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :bigthumb: Just..... WOW! :lol3:

Carolina said:

for all of them eating the raw!!! Yey for Perla and Pipsqueak!! Yeah - Fortiflora is a great tool to have in a transition for sure, as well as when kitties go off food, like little Perla :heart3:

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That is GREAT news, Lauren!

Carolina said:

I was even afraid they were going to be SO addicted to it, I would need to call Purina and order a personal supply of Animal Digest :lol3:

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I'm so glad they're doing so well while you use less and less of it! :lol3: