This is going to be one for the books! Transitioning Lucky, Bugsy and Hope to Raw.... Challenges... - Page 2

Hi AC! Thanks for all your support!
the great news here is that both Hope and Bugsy are doing great, and so far today, there has been no soft poop at all
Hope is finally her old self, totally energetic, running all over the place, being very mischievous! BEGGING for kibbles. Sits there crying - she knows right how to get to my heart
Bugsy took Reglan 2x, but I think he will not need it anymore - I will see how he does tonight.... I think he is all better..... he's doing great!
Both are still kibble-free and on schedule One way or another, not eating everything, but eating enough. Hope eating well, Bugsy eating enough. Sometimes I need to do different foods.... Today was Fortiflora..... but we are getting there.

I am taking a step back with Lucky.... I am updating the thread a little later.... have to feed them now - I am moving her into a schedule, but a bit slower - I am not comfortable with her not eating... That is a nono for me. Yes - I absolutely want them on raw.... but I don't want to harm them in the process..... So if she needs me to take it a little slower..... then be it....
Time to feed them now....
I will update with what I am doing after I feed them - I am not giving up!

Yeah..... When I said this was going to be one for the books, I was not kidding......
Let me just tell ya.... Had I known everything was going to go wrong, I don't think I would had put myself up to this right now. I knew it was not going to be easy - what I was not expecting was unnecessary bad things happening ***right now***. It is not the right time to happen
Anyways - Good news bad news -
Good news first:
Bugsy and Hope are both doing great, more used to their schedule, and thank you to the huge amount of junk in Fortiflora (Animal Digest) eating their whole meals faster and faster. They ate their dinners tonight quite quickly. So.... for them, I see that this will probably work out....... if they don't get completely addicted to Fortiflora, that is, which has happened to the past.

The bad news: I need to take a step back on Lucky. She has either a stomach upset or hairball problems. She did vomit a hairball tonight, right after a meal, which is why I think her appetite was off. I could see in there even the undigested treats I had served quite a few hours before. So really, things were not moving down her stomach. She also threw up her next meal - which was Orijen, and I fed to her very slowly - doing a hunting game of sorts.... works with her when she is off her appetite. Hairballs do throw her appetite out of the window, when they get bad.
I am not sure at this point if this is due to the hairball, or an abrupt food change - Orijen (new food) is meat/protein packed, grain free.... while Proplan (original food) is precisely the reverse.... But the one thing or another, the fact of the matter is, she had zero nutrition today. I will not force her into something that is risky....
I gave her some vaseline, so hopefully that will help.....
I also put back Proplan in her food station so she knows it is there. She had a few, very few bites 10-15 minutes ago, and has not thrown up yet - I am hoping she will hold it down.
Tomorrow I will give her some vaseline again, and continue on ProPlan - if she is not better by the end of the day, she is going to the vet.
She drank water and did not throw up - she is also not projectile vomiting right after she eats, so I am tending towards a stomach upset instead of a blockage here, due to the food change.
I will let her settle then start over.
Her set back will not affect the others - her feeding station is closed, and has a door that is controlled via microchip - at the moment it is only programmed to let her in; the others can not get inside of it.
I will start introducing raw on Saturday - I want them all to be strong and well. I am not concerned about pathogens, I just don't want to throw on their system yet another food change.... That is my biggest concern actually.
I will offer it to the a dollop with every meal, as suggested, for a week - Lucky included.
will see where this goes.......... Seems to be one thing after another!
Edited by Carolina - 12/29/11 at 11:46am

Today, so far so good!
Bugsy and Hope are doing GREAT, and adjusting well to their schedule and 100% wet. They no longer have the runs, and today, again thanks to Fortiflora, finished their whole Breakfast very quickly - no major drama
Lucky kept her few bites last night, and now is back on Proplan for a little while. She also ate a little this morning, and is keeping it down like a little girl.
What I am doing with Lucky, to get her used slowly to a schedule, is (thank you Laurie!! ):
She has a feeding station/Box, where her food is inside of.... however she loves my company and LOVES to eat with me there.
So, on the 3 meals I feed Bugsy and Hope, I will feed her too, will make her Company, and will feed her outside of the box/feeding station. Little by little, this outside food will be transitioned to Orijen, which is her favorite. Meanwhile, inside of the box, she will have access to Proplan to graze on as she wishes. As time goes, I reduce the amount of Proplan. Yesterday, while I had both of them out, she wanted NOTHING to do with Proplan - she likes Orijen SO much better!
This I think will make her naturally work towards a schedule, but not starve herself...... She will learn that orijen = me, and she will have to eat more during those meals.
For now, she needs a few days for her tummy to settle down.

Saturday I start offering all of them a dollop of raw with their meals -

Holly mother of solid poop!
I am having a poop kodak moment! This is HUGE!!!!!!
GET THIS: After ONE YEAR and TWO MONTHS of Diarrhea or SOFT POOP..................................
BUGSY just presented me with a huge Christmas gift
A perfectly formed.... SOLID POOP!
What could a mom ever wish for at Christmas?

Now...... He had Reglan yesterday morning.......... around 8am...... That could be it. BUT I really don't think so...... Because Reglan would had stopped his Diarrhea - sure, but once he is off of it, he would gone back to his normal poop - somewhat formed, veeeeeeeery soft, jelly like in consistency. And it has been some 36 hours since he took it.
What I think is really happening..... Is that he has been on Z/D wet only for the last 2 days - no kibbles, no nothing - that I think has helped him tremendously.
Will it last? Not sure....... probably not, with the introduction of raw...... But once he gets settled into his diet, he will hopefully get back to this point again...... and at least I know it can be done! He CAN poop good poops! YEY!!!
Never though poop could make me so happy!

Yeah baby!!! Mom is starting to breathe now..... can I say............ WHEW

Ok...... Here is Day 3:
Bugsy and Hope are 100% off Kibbles
They are both on Schedule - a meal at 9am, one at 6pm, and the next one will be at 11 pm
I am mixing a little bit of fortiflora in the food, and sprinkling it over it for taste - I do not, by any means, use the whole package.....
Even though they do not eat the food in one sitting, they ate their breakfast quite fast today, and it didn't take much work at all, compared to yesterday, or even when they were eating 1/2 as much per meal.
They are both diarrhea free
Bugsy for the first time in a year and two months, has solid poop!!
Hope, who was sick (stress diarrhea) - is 100% back to her old self, running around, jumping all over the place, and being the nutty kitty she is
Hope IS begging for kibbles........................... But Bugsy is Begging for Wet! (mostly when I open the Fortiflora pack, but still - he knows when I am preparing the food - and he knows yum yum dinner is coming! )
They are now finishing their dinners, and doesn't seem it's going to take much trouble to get them licking the last drop either

Lucky
Lucky is back on ground 0 for transition....... yep - she was sick yesterday, so I had to take a step back to get my baby back on a healthy place.........
The great news is, she is back eating, and hasn't thrown up today at all
Yesterday she had 0 - ZERO nutrition, and the day before subpar as well, so no way I was going to push it today......
So, today has been a great day for miss Lucky too
She has eaten 1/4 cup of food (back on ProPlan) so far, and has kept everything down
I am making sure that when I am with her, I feed her out of her station, but she can also go in anytime on her own and nibble - food is available. I am also making sure she eats slowly...... I don't want her to have an upset stomach - she does throw up when she eats too fast.

There is no risk for the others, as her feeding station is microchip controlled, and currently programmed to only let her in High-tech kitty
And on the good news front, I called Pet Supplies Plus, and they agreed to exchange my bag of Nature's Variety Chicken for the Rabbit....... So in my freezer I have a big bag of NV Rabbit Patties
I might even start giving them all tomorrow - we will see....... I want them all to be 100%
I am so so excited!!! And relieved! Whew!
Hope they will all love the rabbit!!!

Ok, here you go -
I created this feeding station because Lucky had a blockage and had to be fed a hairball diet, which contained chicken..... While Bugsy was allergic to chicken.... With free-fed cats, I had to have a solution.... So I got Crafty!

This is the box:

It is nothing but a litterbox furniture, but turned upside down, so the flap door could be installed - I bought it from Amazon, shipping free Merry Pet Cat House

This is the Cat flap:

It is called SureFlap, and it can also be found on Amazon - it is the greatest thing: SureFlap Cat door. Super easy to program too! Provided your kitties are microchipped, you push that button on the top, put some treats on the flap so they get their heads in there, and DONE! The door reads the chip and unlocks it. You can program to unlocked, locked, and to all your cats. Mine currently is programmed to Lucky only, even though Hope is also chipped (she used to use it too)

This is how it looks like put together - sorry for the picture quality:

There is a stepping stool on the front, as you can see.... The box, because it is up side down, it is too tall, so I put a stool for them, otherwise they wouldn't be able to reach the door.
I also affixed a stepping stool (lower in high) on the inside near the door, for the same reasons, with a glue gun.

And here is Lucky inside of it:


So, is that cool or what? You can say Lucky is one high-tech kitty

YEP! Pet Supplies Plus is AWESOME!!! LOVE them for that
You can even take your open bags or cans, and they will take it back.
I was afraid because this was raw....... but..... no trouble at all!!!!!

So, I defrost a patty of the rabbit raw...... and feed them - under Auntie's precise instructions, ONE, just ONE teaspoon of it, each, right in their wet food - not mixed..... just plop the dollop in there.
OOOOPS.
Bugsy says: Are you kidding me? That's ALL?
Hope says? YUMMY!!! Where is the rest?
Then they proceed to completely and absolutely ignore the rest of their wet food
They wanted none of it..... kept coming back and just looking for where the raw was..... with this huge disappointed look in their faces
"Mom, I am NOT eating this junk - BRING the MEAT N-O-W"

So.... for the sake of Bugsy eating at all, Auntie instructed me to remove 2 teaspoons from the wet, and mix in another teaspoon of the raw. This time mixing it in. So I did..... I had to sprinkle fortiflora on his food and Hope's again.....
They did eat, but I am not sure I can fool them much longer..... They LOVE it To a point that in comparison, they hate the wet - they think it is a joke

Thing is, while that's a GREAT thing, it might not be so great when dealing with Bugsy....... Bugsy is not your regular kitty...... and I have to take it slow...... I don't want them to boycott the wet in the process either, ans I HAVE to take this slow.
So yes, this is precisely what I would call good news bad news

I immediately cleaned all the litter boxes to make sure none of them have issues..... as if they don't, and flat out refuse the food tomorrow, I might just have to feed at least 1/2 and 1/2 raw.

Now Lucky...... Man.... she DID NOT appreciate the meat
I started to offering her a tiny piece from my finger - nope.... this is disgusting Mo-om!
Then I tried to put into her station - as instructed, next to her food plate/kibbles, so she would associate raw=kibbles. Backfired BIG time. She associated the kibbles/station = HORRIBLE,AWFUL stuff!
RAN so fast, not even funny!
Then, I took the halo out of the fridge She caaaarefully very meticulously picked up the Halo treats making SURE no raw would come with it. If there was a risk, she left in there

So, the plan is to continue offering her, but NOT in her food station, or nowhere near her food

Oh, and on an excellent note, Lucky has eaten somewhat well today, and Hope hasn't thrown up after eating raw - she has thrown up before when she had it in the past. So this is awesome news
So, here is to a very very successful taste of the carnivore experience, for Hope and Bugsy, at least
Hopefully, no adverse effects will show up

Well...... Measurement device, AKA Litterbox Showed what I expected - Bugsy has lose stools.
So for now, I am not increasing his raw quantities. I am proceeding with 2 Tsp per meal, for both him and Hope. He is liking his wet food THAT much better now!
This is going to be a VERY slow transition - Tsp by TSP. Gets better, add one TSP. Gets worst, wait on it.
Hope had totally normal stools, so that's the great news

Hopefully this is not going to turn into a full blown diarrhea - just soft poop..... I will see. He LOVES the stuff, so I definitely want to proceed transitioning him..... but with him, has to be on his own pace.
And yes, he is on 2 probiotics........ plus the Fortiflora for seasoning.... so he is taken care of there.
Cross your fingers that he adjusts fast !

Thank you You are lucky that they all love it!!! I believe it's pretty darn tasty stuff - because Fortiflora was the "it" thing overhere..... and it got completely ignored immediately once meat was served They just kept walking back and forth to their plates with the most disappointed looks..... I could say it was funny.... but gee..... It put me in a tight and "raw" corner

Thanks!
Excellent question - not at all - very easy to install too..... The only extra thing I had to get was this:

It is basically an adaptor to install the door on glass or metal doors. It comes with two rings, one for the inside, and one for the outside - no need to have any surface in between them to install it/screw onto it - you use it to create a fictitious wall of sorts
Because the opening was an odd shape - on the sides, it would not fit both screws in the opening nor both screws outside of it - the rings allowed me to move it a bit to one side and place the screw through the wood. On the other side, it is straight through the rings. On the bottom, it just rests flat on the door opening. There was some space left on top, but the ring closes it nicely.
(you can see where the screws are on the this picture, to the left of Lucky's head - they have a nice little cover...

The only tools I needed were a power screw driver..... and this attachment ring, which was not expensive - around $15.
As I said before, I did use a glue gun for the internal stepping stool.

Opsy! I lied! I totally forgot!!!! A friend of mine had told me to use Gorilla Glue instead of the glue Gun! That's what I usedfor the stepping stool!
That's stuff is amazing!!
The glue gun I used for my wall shelves...... Ok! So there you have it - Gorilla Glue..... One less tool!

Hello peeps!

We had a good day today!
Minor set back with Lucky, but she is way, way better than 2 days ago, so that is a huge relief

As you probably read, the day started with a not at all surprising "gift" per se in the litterbox - Bugsy had big time soft poop. I thought... Oh boy.... the S*** has hit the fan!
Hope's poop on the other hand was perfect!
And so was Lucky...... but she is not on raw so that is a given - at least I know she is not Blocked!

To the kitchen I go to make their breakfast - ALL three waiting.... MOM HURRY!
Bugsy and Hope:
I decided for the time being, to leave the same raw ratio as yesterday - 2 teaspoons for each, and not increase, to see how Bugsy does throughout the day..... So that's what I did.
I also started putting less water in their food (I blend it with water, Bugsy's supplements, etc in a personal smoothie maker).... So it was much thicker than before. I am also cutting down on the fortiflora now so they can really feel the taste of the raw. Instead of just plopping a dollop in it, I am mixing the raw in the food
They both ate breakfast well, without too much trouble.

Same goes for the dinner meal......
I still need to move their plates around a couple of times when they get distracted and stop eating, but it is getting a LOT, LOT easier. They are eating way faster now that they are on a schedule and not being fed kibbles.
It was funny when I went to check on Hope's plate....I thought I was going to have to move yet again.... There were 3 little pieces left - I thought... ok, I will pick it up and give it to Bugsy.... It was 3 little pieces of bones That was all that was left - girl had licked the plate clean!

For the third meal, they were not so sure..... That's when I saw that I will have to do something about increasing the raw ratio...... as they are not too convinced about this business of a little raw mixed into a lot of wet
All the great work of reducing the Fortiflora during the day........ gone on the last meal - it took me keeping sprinkling it over their food otherwise they would not eat it : I am not sprinkling much.... very very lightly..... but still - I want none in there.

I had to give Bugsy a small treat of raw once today - I gave a few halo treats to Lucky (will explain why later) and he came running, desperate for some So I pulled the raw and gave him a little bit, as a treat, off my fingers..... He loves it - wouldn't kill for it, like he does with Halo, but loves it!

On a very good note, the poop this morning was the only one for the day so I will not qualify this as a diarrhea, just as soft poop. I will check the "poop testing device" tomorrow morning and see if it is better.... if it is, the raw is increasing - probably doubling
On another interesting note, even though Bugsy is very sedentary, he was caught playing a whole lot with Lucky today There was a lot of running around and playing catch - he is definitely more active since this change to wet only. Probably because he is hungry
Now onto Lucky:
Lucky continues to eat better and better, she is on the mends
She has also been calling me a LOT and waiting for me to eat, which has been a convenient way to naturally push her towards a schedule
She did have a minor set back today..... She regurgitated her dinner - there was a small hairball in it, however, I am not sure if the problem was that, or, she does that sometimes when she eats too much too fast at once.
I gave her a few Halo Freeze Dry treats soon after, and she held it up. She also got another dose of vaseline.
She did eat another meal after that, and she held it just fine
She is definitely not blocked, she is not throwing up constantly, and she is eating well..... So I am inclined to think this was really a fluke.

I did offer her a bit of raw in my finger, to which she made her "OMG, this is disgusting" face
She will be a looooong process, I tell ya. Girl is missing out too, which is sad
For now, I will continue to work on her schedule, since she is eating well..... Then I will have to find a way to get raw into her.... is there a magic pill for that?

We are having a great start so far
There was no poop yet on any on the litterboxes, which is not to say it won't be there...... but it is a good sign nonetheless - no urgency
No, pick up a notch we must, and we did!
Now 1/3 of breakfast was raw! and guess what? NO FORTIFLORA yey!
They ate to the last bite
Lucky had a good breakfast with me, and hasn't thrown up - but apparently she regrets having too little, as she is still begging for me to go back there...... for which I am not giving in. She knows there is foon in the station, and with me, only on schedule!

Well, lets hope there is no ill effects from the raw increase today

Ok, So.... Bugsy's poop is very soft, softer than normal, but formed, and nothing that would worry me or throw me off..... Just what I would expect with any food transition..... I am proceeding with the 1/3 raw 2/3 wet for the next 2 meals for the day

I did find a little vomit with a little hairball in it - thought it was Lucky's and got immediately worried Definitely not hers - there were all these little pieces of bone in it..... and evidently Lucky doesn't eat raw..... So this was either Hope or Bugsy - don't know who, as I was sleeping. It was not a lot either - a little hairball, lots of tiny bones, and some liquid - the food had been digested, definitely did not throw up a meal.....
Now my question is...... are these pieces of bone getting stuck? Can they cause a blockage with the hairballs if enough of them get in there? Or they will throw them up before that happen?
Thanks for the support Auntie
She does get over them, and she does get better though...... I know Raw will be better for her - no doubt.... but I also know that one year ago she had a blockage and ProPlan, as nasty as it might be, has kept her problem in check. She does not throw up hairball all the time, or every day, or every week, or every month. This is not a regular thing for her. But at this right moment, it happens that she has a hairball issue. Before Proplan, she would cough and hack quite often - after proplan, the hair is found on the poop, and no coughing/hacking.... So yeah.... nasty..... but for her - so far, for a whole year, it has been working.
I also don't know if that second regurgitation was simply for eating too fast - and that can happen to any cat, eating any food - kibbles, wet, or raw. She is knows to do that, hairball or not... I try to make her eat slower.....
How do I know that Proplan works for her? Simple - I see hairball in her poop, she no longer hacks/cough, and very rarely, passes a hairball - in fact, I have not seen one since she started on the food, a year ago.
She is getting better - 4 days ago her appetite was low. 3 days ago, everything she ate, she threw up - everything. 2 days ago, she ate and kept all down..... Yesterday she had one regurgitation - which could be due to eating too fast..... but ate well.... And today, she has eaten very well, and has kept all down.
Again, no doubt raw is going to make her system better..... no doubt she will be better on raw.... But to say that she likely won't get better unless she is on raw... To me that is not precise..... She has done before and is doing now.
I can't wait for herto go on raw though - she is, no doubt, missing out big time