This is going to be one for the books! Transitioning Lucky, Bugsy and Hope to Raw.... Challenges Gal

Oh man......
I sure hope tomorrow is a better day.... I am a nervous wreck!
If I did drugs, I would be doing a whole lot right now ...... I-need-valium! Wait! I don't do valium :scratch:
I don't have alcohol in my house......... not even CHOCOLATE! I am out of luck! :frusty:
Hope is doing much MUCH better from her runs - so that is the good news.......
The bad news is that now BUGSY has the runs :doh3:
I don't know if it is too much wet - don't think so.......... because he has been on we only when he had his dental surgeries and he was just fine..... I am afraid it was the Stella & Chewy Chicken :frusty:
Bugsy had chicken allergy........ But funny thing is, some days ago I fed him Halo freeze dry chicken - quite a bit of it, at that....... and he was just fine......
WHY NOW??????????? Why now when I buy the bag of darn raw food in chicken??????? :frusty:
:wife::wife::wife::wife::wife::wife::wife::wife:
They barely ate dinner....... took a few laps................ they are not too convinced of my plans....... Oh brother........
Lucky so far only ate 1/4 cup of dry food - hopefully she will eat some more on her last meal. She needs to get into the program :doh3:
I am going to take a breather now...... going to the bank deposit a check and when I get back will try to spoon feed them.....
I need to walk away before my stress eats me alive.
Man, I hope I don't kill my kitties in this process :doh3:..... or myself....... :lol3:

I wouldn't recommend spoon-feeding your cats at this point, Carolina. I would guess the anxiety is coming off you in waves and sitting that close to your kitties, trying desperately to get them to eat something off a spoon, is most likely going to freak them out more than anything else. There's no way, in that scenario, they won't catch your stress. If/when they do, they're likely to want to do anything BUT eat, you know?

Take a deep, slow breath. Now let it out nice and slow.

Bugsy had the largest wet meal he's possibly ever had, and he's now had chicken two days in a row (Halo yesterday, Stella & Chewy's today). In addition, he's gone one full day without any kibble.... it's not to be unexpected that he might get the runs for a day or three with all that's going on.

It's ok, too, that you've got NV chicken - it's frozen and it'll keep for now. Why not pick up the NV rabbit tomorrow and use that instead, just to eliminate one potential problem?

Also, you've gone directly from kibble to canned, cold turkey. If Bugsy's reticence persists, or his stools don't firm up after a few days (with no more chicken), you can always take a half-step back and offer him half kibble / half canned for his final meal of the day.

Hope seems to be doing just fine, and Lucky will pick up on the kibble during her scheduled meals; if not on her own, then certainly when you start sprinkling it with the Halo.

Think of this as a very long-term project. You only need to make one little change at a time, and you can hold each change for as long as needed (I'd suggest a week, at this point).

For Lucky, her change is scheduled feedings. Other than placing a small dollop of the raw food next to her kibble, you don't need to make any other changes until next Sunday or Monday. IF she starts eating the raw during this week, THEN you can also offer her nothing but raw for one of her meals, but make no other changes 'till next week.

For Hope, same thing - just put a dollop of raw next to her canned food for the rest of this week. If she starts eating the raw, swap one meal out for only raw (I'm thinking probably breakfast would be best, for both, because they'll likely be the most hungry for that meal).

For Bugsy, you can keep offering the canned food for each meal, with a dollop of the NV next to it, but if he skips two meals in a row, then offer him the canned with some kibble. We want him to begin recognizing the raw as food, and we want him to transition off the kibble, but first, we want him eating timed meals nicely. Does Bugsy like Forti Flora, and can he tolerate it? You might be able to use that as an enticement for the canned (then the raw). Alternatively, you can try one of the other Halo or Stella & Chewy's freeze-dried flavors (not chicken), or, perhaps, some fish food flakes....

Nice and slow....

I've got half my family praying for you and sending you lots of good will vibes. This is only day one - you're going to do just fine!!!! 

AC

Yep, getting out was a good idea! Take a few deep breaths.... and like AC says, take a step back if needed. :nod:

!!!!!

Auntie Crazy said:

I've got half my family praying for you and sending you lots of good will vibes. This is only day one - you're going to do just fine!!!!  :heart3:

AC

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Only half of your family AC? :lol3: Wait? where is the other half? boycotting prayers?

Okay! As we say in Brazil.... "amongst the dead and seriously injured, they all survived" :lol3:
I am much calmer now - nothing that a good burger with fries won't do :lol3:

Ok.... So, here is a recap of the first day:
First things first, Hope is doing MUCH better
She is barely hiding - just her normal hiding patterns really..... which makes me think she feels well. She has hanging around all day on the window sills and shelves, very alert, and on a much better mood.
Her poop is also improving - she pooped 2x today - the first time was only mucous - sorry to be gross..... the second time, although very soft, always liquid.... was formed. A vast improvement from yesterday and even this morning. I think by tomorrow night my girl will be just fine :cross:
She ate 1/2 can of ziwipeak for Breakfast, not too much for lunch less than 1/4 can of ziwipeak and a in between 1/4 and 1/2 can oz Hills Z/D Canned for dinner. On the first two meals, i Mixed some Stella & Chewy treats, so there are some calories there too.
All and all, she ate almost a full can of wet, and is much improved from yesterday - she also hasn't eaten kibbles for 2 days now :bigthumb:
Oh, and since she is feeling better, I was able to weigh her - 12lbs :nod:

Bugsy -
Bugsy also ate about what Hope ate - which is not as good for him, considering he is almost twice her size :lol3: BUT is it certainly enough to not make him sick :nod: Edit - he just ate more of his dinner, so he almost finished 1/2 can of z/d...very happy!
He did develop the runs, for which I attribute to the Stella & Chewy treats. Some days ago - I don't remember if 3 or 4, I gave him Halo freeze dry treats....... and he did not have a reaction......... which made me assume he might been over his allergies to chicken - apparently I was wrong :doh3:
He had the runs pretty badly today after Stella and Chewy and it is completely and absolutely my fault - not because of pathogens, bacteria, or anything of the sorts, but because of chicken. So unfortunately I will have to get another bag of raw.....
I do have Reglan on hands here for these situations with him, and will give him a pill tonight - if the diarrhea persists, tomorrow too.... He should be fine.
Bugsy was all day out of kibbles, and yesterday he ate very little of it as well.

Lucky -
Lucky was put on a schedule, much for her dislike.
She has to get into the program, as she is used to eat very little quantities at a time.
I did 4 feedings, and I think I will do the same tomorrow, when I am comfortable she is eating enough, I will scale her down to 3.
Unfortunately, she has only eaten a bit over 1/4 cup today - not what she should, but not enough to make her sick. I am currently transitioning her to Orijen, as I am no longer comfortable with feeding Purina.
I am so proud of my kids!!!

MOM - Mom just about had a fit :lol3::lol3::lol3::lol3:
She needs to get the memo and calm down :lol3::lol3::lol3:
There were 2 feedings where they didn't eat, and literally I tossed the cans out - since they refused the food, and it is their favorite, I am taking it back to Pets Supplies Plus (empty cans) as I think something might been wrong with them. It is just strange that they refused to eat it like that.
There are not many things that stress me more than having my babies not eating..... and when ALL of them are going through it at the same time..... whew! It is just soooooo much for my :heart3: to bear!
I know in my heart I am doing the best for them :heart3:, and the very last thing I want is to harm them in the process.
I will give it a couple of days for Bugsy and Hope to get better from their runs before adding the raw into their diets. Not so much because it is raw - NV has a pathogen free guarantee, so I am at ease about that..... But because I don't want to force yet another transition into them - another protein and another type of food without their system being ready.
So, there you have it - here is for a better and easier day tomorrow! One thing is for sure.... I am walking forward........ as much as possible, there is I want to go. I will find a way to keep on going the right direction.... I do not want to go back to kibbles, or off schedule.....
I know I am pushing a fast transition, probably, but I want them to be safe by my next trip - and that will come soon....... Hope and Lucky will be alright.... I need to make sure Bugsy eats when I am out of town...... and I think he needs to be on raw for that to happen.
so.... sorry for the drama everyone, and let the "fun" continue tomorrow!

A little discouraged today......
On the bright side, Miss Hope seems to be doing GREAT! she is back to her old self, and Diagel seems to have done its magic
She had a full breakfast, no poop as of yet, tons of energy, is jumping all over the place, and is a happy little girl...... :bigthumb:

On a not so bright note, I might have to take a step back for both Lucky and Bugsy - for Lucky it might be just a matter of removing the Orijen from her diet..... She barely touched her breakfast, and I know she was hungry..... I am doing 4 feedings today, so next one I will do all ProPlan to see if she eats.

For Bugsy, I might have to, unfortunately, offer him kibbles on his last meal of the day - he barely touched his breakfast either...... and that is a huge nono for him. He is feeling really well..... But doesn't want wet - he want kibbles. He is hungry. I made some Z/D (wet) he took a few licks, and refuses to eat..... I made ZiwiPeak Venison..... same thing...... Bugsy is obese and I will not let him go without food. I will not risk that one.

I can't sprinkle the chicken as it gives him diarrhea

I hope it will pickup soon.....
poor baby and poor momma!

I bought Fortiflora from my vet to mix and sprinkle over their food..... It worked for Hope, who finished her breakfast to the last lick.
Bugsy ate some more of his food, but didn't finish it.

I am concerned about Lucky - she hasn't eaten barely anything...... With or without Orijen, with or without Fortiflora. This was her second meal of 4. She maybe took 2 bites and walked away. She is starving.... begging for food, but will not eat.... This is breaking my heart.

Well, try not to be too discouraged.  It's still very early is the game.  And transitioning from kibble to canned  is usually hard, especially when you can't even rely on the old standby's like Fancy Feast (made by Purina)  And as far as the Orijin, when I tried out Wellness Core, only two of my four would come near it .  The other two went running for the hills.  Did Lucky have any problems on the Pro Plan?  I know you wanted to take her off because of the Purina issues, but since there hasn't been a formal recall, if she hasn't had any problems, it'll probably be easier on her system to just leave her on it until she transitions to the Raw the way AC recommended.

mrsgreenjeens said:

Well, try not to be too discouraged.  It's still very early is the game.  And transitioning from kibble to canned  is usually hard, especially when you can't even rely on the old standby's like Fancy Feast (made by Purina)  And as far as the Orijin, when I tried out Wellness Core, only two of my four would come near it

.  The other two went running for the hills.  Did Lucky have any problems on the Pro Plan?  I know you wanted to take her off because of the Purina issues, but since there hasn't been a formal recall, if she hasn't had any problems, it'll probably be easier on her system to just leave her on it until she transitions to the Raw the way AC recommended.

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The problem with Lucky has been going on the schedule.... She loves Orijen.... She used to eat it..... When I brought the bag in this time, I gave it to her as treats, and she cleaned the floor. Lucky is finicky, so I just add a few pieces to begin her transition.
Today I tried to feed her without Orijen in - taking a step back to ProPlan only - that is the meal she took only a couple of bites. Sprinkling with Fortiflora did nothing.
Sounds to me that the problem here is the schedule - she is not used to eating large quantities in one sitting......

She is not on wet yet. She never ate wet. HATES it.
We are not quite there yet, and I don't plan to go there at all..... I plan to transition her straight to raw......
I don't like her not eating though

Not eating is a huge issue for me.....

I went back to her food station and put 2 bowls - one with ProPlan and One With Orijen. She immediately went to Orijen and started eating.... She didn't eat much though. Between the two "meals" 1/8 of a cup or so.
I might have to do a "crush" transition on her, and just let her pick Orijen if that's what she wants to eat. Tomorrow Halo arrives here, and I will compliment her diet with it.
Lucky has done will with transitions before, so I am hoping she won't get a diarrhea this time - she has had these immediate transitions..... and never had an upset tummy. Hopefully this is not the exception to the rule
Hopefully she starts eating soon also.

Afternoon, Carolina!

Since you read all those transition articles, you know we have far more in our arsenal of tricks than we've so far tried. No need to despair until our ammunition is depleted, yes?  (By the way, here's another one for you: RawFedCats.org A Practical Guide.)

Also, you know why you're waging this war with your kitties - for the betterment of their own health. For their vitality and a future with, perhaps, substantially fewer meds.

So get wily, get creative, get determined, and don't let one off meal here or there be all it takes to push you off course! 

 AC

Auntie Crazy said:

Afternoon, Carolina!

Since you read all those transition articles, you know we have far more in our arsenal of tricks than we've so far tried. No need to despair until our ammunition is depleted, yes?  (By the way, here's another one for you: RawFedCats.org A Practical Guide.)

Also, you know why you're waging this war with your kitties - for the betterment of their own health. For their vitality and a future with, perhaps, substantially fewer meds.

So get wily, get creative, get determined, and don't let one off meal here or there be all it takes to push you off course!  :bigthumb:

 AC

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Hi AC! Thanks for all your support!
the great news here is that both Hope and Bugsy are doing great, and so far today, there has been no soft poop at all :bigthumb:
Hope is finally her old self, totally energetic, running all over the place, being very mischievous! BEGGING for kibbles. Sits there crying - she knows right how to get to my heart
Bugsy took Reglan 2x, but I think he will not need it anymore - I will see how he does tonight.... I think he is all better..... he's doing great!
Both are still kibble-free and on schedule One way or another, not eating everything, but eating enough. Hope eating well, Bugsy eating enough. Sometimes I need to do different foods.... Today was Fortiflora..... but we are getting there.

I am taking a step back with Lucky.... I am updating the thread a little later.... have to feed them now - I am moving her into a schedule, but a bit slower - I am not comfortable with her not eating... That is a nono for me. Yes - I absolutely want them on raw.... but I don't want to harm them in the process..... So if she needs me to take it a little slower..... then be it....
Time to feed them now....
I will update with what I am doing after I feed them - I am not giving up! :nod:

Aw Carolina...

It's always something, right?

I didn't switch to raw, just all wet, but the hardest part of the switch was to timed meals. :lol3:

Sending more vibes to worried Momma AND babies! ;vibes:

LDG said:

Aw Carolina...
It's always something, right?
I didn't switch to raw, just all wet, but the hardest part of the switch was to timed meals. :lol3:
Sending more vibes to worried Momma AND babies! ;vibes:

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Yeah..... When I said this was going to be one for the books, I was not kidding......
Let me just tell ya.... Had I known everything was going to go wrong, I don't think I would had put myself up to this right now. I knew it was not going to be easy - what I was not expecting was unnecessary bad things happening ***right now***. It is not the right time to happen
Anyways - Good news bad news -
Good news first:
Bugsy and Hope are both doing great, more used to their schedule, and thank you to the huge amount of junk in Fortiflora (Animal Digest) eating their whole meals faster and faster. They ate their dinners tonight quite quickly. So.... for them, I see that this will probably work out....... if they don't get completely addicted to Fortiflora, that is, which has happened to the past.

The bad news: I need to take a step back on Lucky. She has either a stomach upset or hairball problems. She did vomit a hairball tonight, right after a meal, which is why I think her appetite was off. I could see in there even the undigested treats I had served quite a few hours before. So really, things were not moving down her stomach. She also threw up her next meal - which was Orijen, and I fed to her very slowly - doing a hunting game of sorts.... works with her when she is off her appetite. Hairballs do throw her appetite out of the window, when they get bad.
I am not sure at this point if this is due to the hairball, or an abrupt food change - Orijen (new food) is meat/protein packed, grain free.... while Proplan (original food) is precisely the reverse.... But the one thing or another, the fact of the matter is, she had zero nutrition today. I will not force her into something that is risky....
I gave her some vaseline, so hopefully that will help.....
I also put back Proplan in her food station so she knows it is there. She had a few, very few bites 10-15 minutes ago, and has not thrown up yet - I am hoping she will hold it down.
Tomorrow I will give her some vaseline again, and continue on ProPlan - if she is not better by the end of the day, she is going to the vet.
She drank water and did not throw up - she is also not projectile vomiting right after she eats, so I am tending towards a stomach upset instead of a blockage here, due to the food change.
I will let her settle then start over.
Her set back will not affect the others - her feeding station is closed, and has a door that is controlled via microchip - at the moment it is only programmed to let her in; the others can not get inside of it.
I will start introducing raw on Saturday - I want them all to be strong and well. I am not concerned about pathogens, I just don't want to throw on their system yet another food change.... That is my biggest concern actually.
I will offer it to the a dollop with every meal, as suggested, for a week - Lucky included.
will see where this goes.......... Seems to be one thing after another!

Today, so far so good! :bigthumb:
Bugsy and Hope are doing GREAT, and adjusting well to their schedule and 100% wet. They no longer have the runs, and today, again thanks to Fortiflora, finished their whole Breakfast very quickly - no major drama
Lucky kept her few bites last night, and now is back on Proplan for a little while. She also ate a little this morning, and is keeping it down like a little girl.
What I am doing with Lucky, to get her used slowly to a schedule, is (thank you Laurie!! ):
She has a feeding station/Box, where her food is inside of.... however she loves my company and LOVES to eat with me there.
So, on the 3 meals I feed Bugsy and Hope, I will feed her too, will make her Company, and will feed her outside of the box/feeding station. Little by little, this outside food will be transitioned to Orijen, which is her favorite. Meanwhile, inside of the box, she will have access to Proplan to graze on as she wishes. As time goes, I reduce the amount of Proplan. Yesterday, while I had both of them out, she wanted NOTHING to do with Proplan - she likes Orijen SO much better!
This I think will make her naturally work towards a schedule, but not starve herself...... She will learn that orijen = me, and she will have to eat more during those meals.
For now, she needs a few days for her tummy to settle down.

Saturday I start offering all of them a dollop of raw with their meals -

Carolina said:

Today, so far so good!

Bugsy and Hope are doing GREAT, and adjusting well to their schedule and 100% wet. They no longer have the runs, and today, again thanks to Fortiflora, finished their whole Breakfast very quickly - no major drama

Lucky kept her few bites last night, and now is back on Proplan for a little while. She also ate a little this morning, and is keeping it down like a little girl.
What I am doing with Lucky, to get her used slowly to a schedule, is (thank you Laurie!!

):
She has a feeding station/Box, where her food is inside of.... however she loves my company and LOVES to eat with me there.
So, on the 3 meals I feed Bugsy and Hope, I will feed her too, will make her Company, and will feed her outside of the box/feeding station. Little by little, this outside food will be transitioned to Orijen, which is her favorite. Meanwhile, inside of the box, she will have access to Proplan to graze on as she wishes. As time goes, I reduce the amount of Proplan. Yesterday, while I had both of them out, she wanted NOTHING to do with Proplan - she likes Orijen SO much better!
This I think will make her naturally work towards a schedule, but not starve herself...... She will learn that orijen = me, and she will have to eat more during those meals.
For now, she needs a few days for her tummy to settle down.

Saturday I start offering all of them a dollop of raw with their meals -

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Great news on Bugsy and Hope.  And NOW I finally understand why ProPlan in involved with Lucky .  Glad you explained it.  Yesterday after you replied to my post I was very confused, but now I completely get it.  What a smart meowmy you are!  Very clever way to drive Lucky to scheduled feedings.  And if part of this was AC's idea, well then, she's very clever too!

Holly mother of solid poop!
I am having a poop kodak moment! This is HUGE!!!!!!
GET THIS: After ONE YEAR and TWO MONTHS of Diarrhea or SOFT POOP..................................
BUGSY just presented me with a huge Christmas gift :lol3::lol3::lol3:
A perfectly formed.... SOLID POOP! :blobgreen
What could a mom ever wish for at Christmas?

Now...... He had Reglan yesterday morning.......... around 8am...... That could be it. BUT I really don't think so...... Because Reglan would had stopped his Diarrhea - sure, but once he is off of it, he would gone back to his normal poop - somewhat formed, veeeeeeeery soft, jelly like in consistency. And it has been some 36 hours since he took it.
What I think is really happening..... Is that he has been on Z/D wet only for the last 2 days - no kibbles, no nothing - that I think has helped him tremendously.
Will it last? Not sure....... probably not, with the introduction of raw...... But once he gets settled into his diet, he will hopefully get back to this point again...... and at least I know it can be done! He CAN poop good poops! YEY!!!
Never though poop could make me so happy!

That's so awesome, Carolina!! Yay for solid poopies!!!!

As you continue to move forward with all three, you should see a variety of additional improvements.

I'm very excited, and very happy for you, Carolina!    

AC

Carolina said:

Holly mother of solid poop!
I am having a poop kodak moment! This is HUGE!!!!!!
GET THIS: After ONE YEAR and TWO MONTHS of Diarrhea or SOFT POOP..................................
BUGSY just presented me with a huge Christmas gift :lol3::lol3::lol3:
A perfectly formed.... SOLID POOP! :blobgreen
What could a mom ever wish for at Christmas?
Now...... He had Reglan yesterday morning.......... around 8am...... That could be it. BUT I really don't think so...... Because Reglan would had stopped his Diarrhea - sure, but once he is off of it, he would gone back to his normal poop - somewhat formed, veeeeeeeery soft, jelly like in consistency. And it has been some 36 hours since he took it.
What I think is really happening..... Is that he has been on Z/D wet only for the last 2 days - no kibbles, no nothing - that I think has helped him tremendously.
Will it last? Not sure....... probably not, with the introduction of raw...... But once he gets settled into his diet, he will hopefully get back to this point again...... and at least I know it can be done! He CAN poop good poops! YEY!!!
Never though poop could make me so happy!

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OMG HOLY MOTHER OF SOLID POOP I totally can understand your excitement in seeing a poop like that, I can just picture your face seeing it come out of Bugsy ..... :bigthumb:

I am really reading this thread closely - as I am sure other's are as well. We are ALL routing for you, Carolina, and especially :rub: Bugsy knowing how difficult this last year has been on him This is an excellent journal you are writing on your transition to raw - it will come in quite handy for other's as well :nod:

p.s. My cat's just LOVE LOVE Stella/Chewey's freeze-dried raw cubes. Except for Pipsqueak . But everyone else gets one meal a day of that :nod:

Carolina said:

Today, so far so good! :bigthumb:
Bugsy and Hope are doing GREAT, and adjusting well to their schedule and 100% wet. They no longer have the runs, and today, again thanks to Fortiflora, finished their whole Breakfast very quickly - no major drama
Lucky kept her few bites last night, and now is back on Proplan for a little while. She also ate a little this morning, and is keeping it down like a little girl.
What I am doing with Lucky, to get her used slowly to a schedule, is (thank you Laurie!! ):
She has a feeding station/Box, where her food is inside of.... however she loves my company and LOVES to eat with me there.
So, on the 3 meals I feed Bugsy and Hope, I will feed her too, will make her Company, and will feed her outside of the box/feeding station. Little by little, this outside food will be transitioned to Orijen, which is her favorite. Meanwhile, inside of the box, she will have access to Proplan to graze on as she wishes. As time goes, I reduce the amount of Proplan. Yesterday, while I had both of them out, she wanted NOTHING to do with Proplan - she likes Orijen SO much better!
This I think will make her naturally work towards a schedule, but not starve herself...... She will learn that orijen = me, and she will have to eat more during those meals.
For now, she needs a few days for her tummy to settle down.
Saturday I start offering all of them a dollop of raw with their meals -

Click to expand...

Excellent!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Wonderful plan and idea

Carolina said:

Holly mother of solid poop!
I am having a poop kodak moment! This is HUGE!!!!!!
GET THIS: After ONE YEAR and TWO MONTHS of Diarrhea or SOFT POOP..................................
BUGSY just presented me with a huge Christmas gift :lol3::lol3::lol3:
A perfectly formed.... SOLID POOP! :blobgreen
What could a mom ever wish for at Christmas?
Now...... He had Reglan yesterday morning.......... around 8am...... That could be it. BUT I really don't think so...... Because Reglan would had stopped his Diarrhea - sure, but once he is off of it, he would gone back to his normal poop - somewhat formed, veeeeeeeery soft, jelly like in consistency. And it has been some 36 hours since he took it.
What I think is really happening..... Is that he has been on Z/D wet only for the last 2 days - no kibbles, no nothing - that I think has helped him tremendously.
Will it last? Not sure....... probably not, with the introduction of raw...... But once he gets settled into his diet, he will hopefully get back to this point again...... and at least I know it can be done! He CAN poop good poops! YEY!!!
Never though poop could make me so happy!

Click to expand...

:blobmir: :blobpink: :blobmul:

Carolina, I don't know how long reglan stays in the system or is supposed to help, but it seems to me this is too long ago for THIS to be THAT. :lol3: But you'll know soon enough, I think! :lol3:

But for now, just...

And for CONTINUED SOLID POOPS! :lol3: