This is going to be one for the books! Transitioning Lucky, Bugsy and Hope to Raw.... Challenges Gal

LDG said:

Carolina said:

Poop-o-meter report​

Extra extra!!!​

Bugsy had 100% PERFECT - SOLID - DIVIDED - IN PIECES - NORMAL POOP​

As I said............ cement

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:hobbes:

:hobbies:
I am sorry about Lucky.... but you're probably right. I seriously could not help laughing at the "ping pong" description!

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OMG, my thoughts exactly, PING PONG. .......

But Lucky standing and walking has me in stitches. Carolina, this is just incredibly amazing and I am starting to think about total raw..... I just dont know HOW in the world tomget Pipsqueak eating raw. Hmmmmmmm Will have to stock up on Fish Flakes and Fortiflora.

I couldn't be more happy for you, especially for Bugsy

We had a GREAT start, a horrible middle and an ok end - I am SO tired

Of course, the highlight was Bugsy's poop..... that was awesome, no question. I have no doubt in my heart that this is the best decision I have done for my babies..... :heart3:
In a week, I have seen more results than is over a year, trying everything for Bugsy - he has never, ever been better - and I know, he will only get better from her on..... :cross:
But that's not to say, that this is hard - and frustrating, and I have been hitting roadblocks that just make me dream with the ease of putting a plate of kibbles down and whipping some wet food in the morning and night...... and not worrying about it :9: I know now exactly why so many pet parents feed kibbles and wet..... because their babies can be ok on it, and it is easy.....
Funny thing is, that I look back at the troubles with Bugsy, and that was hard too..... God, SO hard to see him sick.... all the trips to the vet.... not only have soft poop day in and day out, but to run out of hope.... Knowing that he was going to be like that for life Knowing that if he was treated the conventional way, his little organs would fail....
How did Bugsy feel? Did he have colic 24x7? gas? did he feel bad? did he have pain? was he feeling bad for that WHOLE year?
This is why, when I have a challenging day like today, I must remember the reasons why I am doing this...... and I need to take a step back, a deep breath - maybe come here to vent and get some support, so I can keep going tomorrow.
I am almost afraid of saying this because I don't want to jinx it..... But this diet has been close to a miracle for Bugsy..... and I have to do it right. I have to make it work.....
With that stated..... here is what made my day so hard today: :disa:

On the 6pm meal, I added 25% Bison for Hope and Bugsy.
I immediately knew it would be a problem when I put a little on my finger and gave to Bugsy - he immediately turned his head away :nausea:
Hope is always hard to start eating, but usually the first sprinkle of fortiflora and the first bite will get her going to the end :nod:
Bugsy eats slowly and gives me a LOT of trouble - he is just spoiled to death...... I will need a solution for this very soon :nod:
Anyways - all of the sudden, I hear a noise in the living room -
It was Hope - Projectile vomiting right on my Brazilian rug This particular rug, by the way, is over 3 meters long, made of pulled strings of cloth - all those raw pieces of bone and meat got stuck in there pretty darn badly Then she threw up on the cat tree, on the carpet..... EVERYWHERE.
All that puke confirmed my fears - Hope is indeed intolerant to Beef
She has thrown up with frozen Stella and Chewy, Stella and chewy freeze dry treats, frozen Bravo..... and now NV Bison, which has a LOT of beef (all organs).
There I go..... horrible time cleaning up all the puke..... then making some plain rabbit food for her - which she kept down just fine :nod:, and back to Pet Supplies Plus to return that Evil bag of food.

On the store, I found out a VERY good thing while talking to Laurie on the phone - I was on a mission to find a food for them..... I did bring home Venison from Nature's Variety..... However, I found out that Primal also uses the same High Pressure Processing to ensure pathogen free poultry - so I just got three more choices for Bugsy: Pheasant, Quail and Turkey
So....
I might have made a mistake tonight too.... I fed Bugsy some Venison...... just 1/4 of his food..... which turned out to be 1/8 really, because he did not finish..... and I had to make rabbit..... He is giving me a LOT of trouble to finish his meals..... and not finishing the whole thing..... Not even withHalo chicken he did :disa: I grew tired..... In the end I just took the plate off tonight.....
I know I probably should not done that, since he did have Bison at lunch.... we will see the results in the litterbox.
Hope would NOT eat Venison - I had to make a whole new plate of rabbit, and she ate the whole thing - what do these kids want? : sigh:


Lucky: Lucky is on the schedule, but what worries me is if she is eating enough? Seems that not? She only wants to eat with me there..... But not eating full meals - she IS hungry.... and not losing weight..... I hope all is alright......
She did eat her 3 treats tonight
I smashed them flat, and coated them with halo - that she ate them all and did not spit off She also did not throw them up....
I am afraid of creating little finicky monsters - I want to be able to put the plates down and have them eat..... But I want to do that safely I am afraid of all the sprinkling.... following them around with the plates.... specially Bugsy..... I SO don't want the raw food to turn into what their wet routine was
So - do I just put the food down, and if they don't eat take it off and let them go hungry?
Like it says here? http://animals.howstuffworks.com/pets/how-to-solve-cat-behavior-problems4.htm
What about the risks of HL during this transition? Especially for Bugsy, who is very obese?
Is this OK to do with raw? What about all their stomach acid?
Should I put them in a room and stay there for 20-30 minutes?
HELP - something is gotta give here...... momma is tired..... They have to make this easy on me.....
Sorry for all the venting......
Hoping for a good poop-o-meter tomorrow.....

LOL, I think you are worrying a bit excessively and demonstrating that they have trained you very well!   However, I understand where you're coming from.

You realize you have a problem--that is the first step to solving it!  ROFL

Sorry, but I'm not going to be a slave to my cats, no matter how much I love them.  At my house, you eat or someone else (ie a DOG) will eat it for you!  As I was telling Lucas' mom, my three all have their preferences.  However, I have a couple of choices of foods that all will eat/like.  We stick to those.  They have shown no "growing tired" of it.  They eat, and eat well.  When they were picky, or occasionally get a little picky because I have the ratios slightly off on a batch of food, I will give a small sprinkle of bonito flakes on the food and they either eat it then or wait until the next meal.  End of story.  Mine eat their food in 2 min or less 99% of the time.  The fact that you have to entice them to eat in the first place indicates they may not be truly hungry...they are just conditioned to eat.

I don't think HL is that much of a worry.  Felix was 19 pounds on a tiny frame when we started and as long as he was eating something at each meal, I didn't worry at all.  He was fine.  BTW, he only eats about 4 oz a day total now...they don't need that much when it's raw (and he's a lazy kitty!)  Brillo, who is about 8 pounds and very active eats about 5 oz daily and Ziggy who is 14 pounds and moderately active eats about 6 oz a day.  I feed them twice a day.  If it's extra cold outside, I give them a bit more (as we keep the house fairly cool).  All in all, it's pretty darn simple.

Hope some of this helps!

C

Oh Carolina....

Yes, between the blockages and the diarrhea... the kitties need this! You're banging your head against the (vomit) on the wall now... but it WILL be easier, and they will be healthier!

I'm a bit surprised they turned their noses at the venison... but it does have a lot of lamb in it. We knew that was a risk. BUT... you can get TURKEY!

I have to agree with Callie about the eating. :nod: As long as they're eating SOMETHING at each meal - even if a few bites - it keeps their systems going. :nod: I only have three cats that finish everything I put down at each meal. I don't worry about it. If they don't finish, they usually eat more at the next one. Flowerbelle often has no more than a few licks. If she wants to be finnicky about a food she liked yesterday... so be it. I'm not going to drive myself nuts trying to get her to eat. It was different with Laz, because I knew his medication meant he had no appetite. But right now, your cats are generally healthy - I mean from an infection/appetite standpoint (knock wood!). There's nothing causing them to not want food - that's when you need to worry. If they're off their food, it's because of the switch - and you're learning what they like and don't.

I'd try the trick of putting down something they don't like (if you have cans still on hand). And don't fix it they way they like it! Put it down straight out of the can. Then put down the raw. :lol3: And because it upsets you so much when they don't eat, maybe just give the idea of putting the food down, closing the door (is there a door in the kitchen?) and walking away, leaving them for half an hour - and no matter how hard - don't go in there! And just picking it up after half an hour. If they didn't eat... over time they'll learn they've got that half hour, and they can use it or not. :lol3:

Don't forget... you travel! So they HAVE to learn to eat without you! So you'd be doing this for ALL of you. :heart3:

CatMom2Wires said:

LOL, I think you are worrying a bit excessively and demonstrating that they have trained you very well!   However, I understand where you're coming from.

You realize you have a problem--that is the first step to solving it!  ROFL

Sorry, but I'm not going to be a slave to my cats, no matter how much I love them.  At my house, you eat or someone else (ie a DOG) will eat it for you!  As I was telling Lucas' mom, my three all have their preferences.  However, I have a couple of choices of foods that all will eat/like.  We stick to those.  They have shown no "growing tired" of it.  They eat, and eat well.  When they were picky, or occasionally get a little picky because I have the ratios slightly off on a batch of food, I will give a small sprinkle of bonito flakes on the food and they either eat it then or wait until the next meal.  End of story.  Mine eat their food in 2 min or less 99% of the time.  The fact that you have to entice them to eat in the first place indicates they may not be truly hungry...they are just conditioned to eat.

I don't think HL is that much of a worry.  Felix was 19 pounds on a tiny frame when we started and as long as he was eating something at each meal, I didn't worry at all.  He was fine.  BTW, he only eats about 4 oz a day total now...they don't need that much when it's raw (and he's a lazy kitty!)  Brillo, who is about 8 pounds and very active eats about 5 oz daily and Ziggy who is 14 pounds and moderately active eats about 6 oz a day.  I feed them twice a day.  If it's extra cold outside, I give them a bit more (as we keep the house fairly cool).  All in all, it's pretty darn simple.

Hope some of this helps!


C

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Sorry Calli, but in my house that' not that simple, and I am trying to find a solution here..... If I leave Bugsy to eat raw on his will, he won't even eat 1/3 of oz.. In here, it is what happens. He wasn't a wet eater. and for a 20lb cat, 1oz of food a day, WILL make him sick.... you see? not that simple....

Calli and LDG..... My worry is that this is a transition to Raw - this is not something they are used to eat.... This is not Bugsy being finicky eating on his regular meals..... In this case, if he strikes, he will.... as he is still thinking KIBBLES.
He is not completely in the program. He is not a raw eating cat...... And Bugsy is cat that can not be starved..... This is something that has to be kept in mind here..... IMHO.....

Hi Everyone
Sorry I haven't posted yet - has been a weird personal day.... Lots of stuff going on, not time to address the thread appropriately...
Thank you all so much for all the advices, support and following this thread.... Means a lot to me, and I am SURE I could not do it without you :grphug:

The kitties had a stressful night - there was a BAD cat fight late last night, around 1am right outside my window Bugsy and Hope ran to the Window to check what was going on

Lucky ran to under my bed.....
Keep in mind, I do live in an apartment building, but in the ground floor - so when this happens, it is right outside..... This for some reason stressed them out all night - the three of them spent the night under my bed They were ok this morning, but a little on edge still.... Strange that it lasted this long.....

Anyways.......

Here is how things are going today:
Lucky:
Lucky is now 100% on a schedule - my concern is that she is not eating as much as she should..... The technique I used to switch her to a schedule worked, and she IS hungry - she begs and begs for me to feed her - I conditioned her to eat only with me, so she would have meal times. Thing is, she doesn't eat enough, I am afraid.....
The smashed treats covered with Halo are working like a charm, and she is eating every single one of them - Instead of making them round, I flatten them, so they are easier to stick to her mouth, harder to spit it off, and she does taste quite a bit of the halo. I will make them thicker very soon.
She doesn't get them before or with the meals anymore, as they were all waiting for the treats instead of eating their foods. :nod: She now gets them after she finishes the meal, or in the middle of the afternoon, if she is starving. She only gets Halo with raw.
And she only gets my company to eat, on meal times.
She is no longer throwing up either :bigthumb:

Bugsy and Hope:
:shocker: No Poop-o-meter yet!! :shocker:
Has Bugsy gone constipated? :dash: Yesterday he pooped several hours later than expected, so there is still hope that things are shaping up nice and evenly in there................ But man, this is weird I will update once it - he is looking way too comfortable for being anytime soon :lol3:

We are back on 100% Rabbit - I did not bother with Venison today - I will do it again soon, But I will try Primal Turkey before that :nod:
This morning was an easier meal - As always, Hope started eating after her sprinkle of Fortiflora...... then ate the whole thing.
For Bugsy, he always starts without anything - which I like it, as he tastes the meat itself :nod: I decided to not push it too much this time - just help him with Fortiflora, but not move the plate around after him........ nor keeping sprinkling with different things - he left 0.8oz - making his meal a total of 1.45oz.. I pulled his plate...... and decided to leave him hungry for the next meal. I noticed that it is a bit hard for him to eat the meat, and Bugsy always ate very slowly and very watery, mushy wet foods, blended on my smoothie maker.... for for the next meal I wanted to try a few things:

1- I decided to give Hope and Bugsy a Feeding Area - this is my small hallway, where their litterboxes are located. Litter boxes in one end, food in the other. Reason being is that I can close all doors and they can focus - they can not move from one room to the other, or get distracted by movement, sounds, etc. So, from now on, that's where they are having their 30min feeding time. Worked quite well actually :nod:
2- I added a bit of water into Bugsy's food - I do not think this helped much...... he still left about what I think to be (minus the water) 0.8oz behind
3- I am not going to insist anymore after they have enough to not make them sick. See.... I am not concerned about the ones with a healthy weight.... But Bugsy being obese and with his personality and health history, I know I can be in trouble. I know it is my fault, and I am responsible for how he is... But the fact is that he is like that right now, and I need to slowly and safely condition him back to a healthy behavior. I need to take all things in account - including the fact that he is so sensitive, that medications that wouldn't affect another cat, did mess up his liver..... So.... When it comes to Bugsy, who only ate wet if blended, followed around, or hand fed...... free fed on kibbles...... and is now on a new diet, on schedule, eating something that 9 days ago he didn't even know it was food.... I can't just go cold Turkey and say "either you eat or too bad".
BUT: I do have to change him - because YES - for his sake and mine - he can not rely on me, fortiflora, or water to eat his food :nod:
I just need to do this slowly with him - he will test my patience.....

With the above stated:
I read on one of the documents that Auntie sent me, from a vet, that a kitty will be safe as long as it eats 15 calories per pound of lean body weight during transition....
So - If Bugsy leave 0.8oz of food per meal, that makes 1.45 oz..... x3x65cal/oz = 282.75......... For his lean weight, which is 16lbs, he would need 240....
Less than 240...... is dangerous......
So, for now we are safe, and I am letting him be hungry. :nod:

Pet Supplies Plus is waiting for their shipment of Primal in Turkey to arrive...... It should be in tomorrow - They will call me as soon as it comes in.
They currently have quail, but I am concerned about being too different for them - I want a blend taste for now :nod:
Hopefully, they will like it :nod:
Bugsy didn't necessarily dislike the Venison, but was not crazy about it either - I will leave that for later.... Hope hated it :nausea:
Anyways...... This is getting long, and I don't want to bother you with too much blah blah blah :lol3:
Thanks everyone

Carolina, sounds VERY practical and reasonable! :nod: I'm really glad you found that article. Now you know just exactly where to draw the line. THAT has to be of comfort!!!!!

Hope they like the Turkey! :cross:

And Lucky.... it just occurred to me - do you know how much she used to eat before? Because both she and Hope were free feeding... she may be eating the same amount she was?

LDG said:

Carolina, sounds VERY practical and reasonable! :nod: I'm really glad you found that article. Now you know just exactly where to draw the line. THAT has to be of comfort!!!!!
Hope they like the Turkey! :cross:
And Lucky.... it just occurred to me - do you know how much she used to eat before? Because both she and Hope were free feeding... she may be eating the same amount she was?

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It is hard to know for sure Laurie, because they did share the same plate :disa:
What I am doing, to guarantee she is safe, is to not let her go under 1/4 cup a day..... Today for example, I tossed some kibbles on the floor for her to eat, and that helped. I don't want to create a monster either, but I do have to play it safe. She is not eating well for sure.... She eats too little
I do think it is normal, considered that she is SO used to eat little meals all day long, you know?
She is hungry, I have no doubt of that - she BEGS and BEGS for me to go in - but I do not give in, unless on feeding times :nod: but she just doesn't have the whole concept down yet, I am afraid :scratch:
I just need to keep her going used to being on the schedule for a little longer I think, then I believe she will get better and better on eating larger meals..... or so I hope!
:cross:

Well, I will say that when we transitioned from free feeding dry with two wet meals a day to timed meals... I was REALLY surprised at how little food they actually needed. A lot of dry food was disappearing... but Billy was fat, Ming Loy was fat, and as it turns out, Lazlo, Shelly, and Spooky were all bigger than they should have been. Apparently an appropriate weight cat is MUCH thinner than I thought. :lol3: I thought Shel was good at 14 pounds. He had a waist and did NOT look fat at all. But at 12 pounds, the vet said he could stand to lose a pound!

LDG said:

Well, I will say that when we transitioned from free feeding dry with two wet meals a day to timed meals... I was REALLY surprised at how little food they actually needed. A lot of dry food was disappearing... but Billy was fat, Ming Loy was fat, and as it turns out, Lazlo, Shelly, and Spooky were all bigger than they should have been. Apparently an appropriate weight cat is MUCH thinner than I thought. :lol3: I thought Shel was good at 14 pounds. He had a waist and did NOT look fat at all. But at 12 pounds, the vet said he could stand to lose a pound!

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Yeah..... I have no problem with that...... as long as it's slowly but surely :nod:

So..... Just fed them the last meal for the day -
I am following the 30min. rule now - lock all the doors,and like it or not, they have to stay there - either they eat, lay down, or stare at the walls.
I start by feeding Lucky, and because she eats kibbles, Bugsy and Hope start their meals on their own :nod:
Lucky ate better :nod: I think she is safe for today - again, 100% on schedule :nod:

Hope is eating raw very well - it takes the initial Fortiflora sprinkle, but from there she licks the plate clean or leaves only a couple of bites

Bugsy, on the other hand, takes for-e-ver He has these tiny little bites, and chews, and chews and chews.... It appears he is chewing his Gums..... He just went to the vet, and his gums are alright..... I check them daily, and they are not raw from the stomatitis - this is a habit that he has.... He is painfully slow.....
I decided for today to not push it and see how how he wakes up tomorrow - if his hunger works for my side - so he has 1/2 hour, with the help of fortiflora sprinkles, to eat....... when he insists that he is done........ I pull the plate. Tonight was worst than breakfast and lunch, but I am sure one day will not break him -
Here is how much he ate:
am: 1.45oz
pm: 1.45
pm2: 1.10oz
Total: 4oz x 65cal = 260 - his minimum is 240 calories, so he should be fine :bigthumb:
Tomorrow I will put on his plate 2oz as it is no fun wasting this food - it is pretty darn expensive for my taste :nod:

After dinner it was time for Lucky's raw burgers
She ate 2 of 3, as Bugsy stole the third :wife:
I made them fatter this time - had to coat them more, but they were also fatter - she ate them..... had no choice but to.....
They all got a few small pieces of Halo chicken..... and are all happy now with their full bellies around the house.....

Now one concern:
Hope seems to have a bit of constipation - and Bugsy hasn't pooped today yet :scratch: - can he be gone to the other side?
Is NV too heavy on the bones? I mean...... it is not that I don't like that Bugsy doesn't have diarrhea..... But I don't want him constipated either :lol3:

LOL - it's not constipation - it's normal Raw kitties poop - Thank you Dr. Pierson for Posting a Picture of your kittie's poop I am not so sure they appreciate it What an invasion of privacy
http://catinfo.org/?link=makingcatfood#Constipation
Warning - Graphic picture of poop :lol3:

Originally Posted by Carolina

LOL - it's not constipation - it's normal Raw kitties poop - Thank you Dr. Pierson for Posting a Picture of your kittie's poop I am not so sure they appreciate it

What an invasion of privacy

http://catinfo.org/?link=makingcatfood#Constipation
Warning - Graphic picture of poop

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She's funny, isn't she? I have to pass those pics around a lot (she compares raw poop to canned poop lower down that page). Isn't is strange how we get so used to seeing (abnormal) large, frequent poops and then get all worried when the cat starts pooping normally? *shakes head*

Good to see you steadily moving forward, Carolina!!!!!! 

Do you think you're close to closing down Lucky's access to kibble overnight? Should be fairly soon, with her eating so much at the scheduled mealtimes!

Keep up the good work, all of you!!! 

AC

Auntie Crazy said:

She's funny, isn't she? I have to pass those pics around a lot (she compares raw poop to canned poop lower down that page). Isn't is strange how we get so used to seeing (abnormal) large, frequent poops and then get all worried when the cat starts pooping normally? *shakes head*

Good to see you steadily moving forward, Carolina!!!!!!  :bigthumb:

Do you think you're close to closing down Lucky's access to kibble overnight? Should be fairly soon, with her eating so much at the scheduled mealtimes!

Keep up the good work, all of you!!! 

AC

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:lol3::lol3::lol3: Funny but effective! :lol3::lol3::lol3:
I was so relieved to see those poop pictures in there - that's what Hope's look like it - aside from the hairball in the middle :nod: Sorry for being even more graphic I was also relieved that it is normal for Bugsy to not poop everyday - that is is digesting and using the food very effectively - VERY happy about that
About Lucky - very close to pulling the plates after all the meals - not only for the night - I think a few more days and I make the move :bigthumb:
I am watching her VERY closely......... and inspecting the bowl too - she is not eating AT ALL but on the schedule

Hope and Bugsy


Mai guudness - Bugsy has not appeared on the poop-o-meter yet What is going on inside of him :scratch:

I am SO impressed with this kids! In one day they learned where their feeding place is - waited patiently for me to make their food in the kitchen, and on the first sign that I was done...... in a line they walked to the hallway - cutest thing :lol3:

I put Bugsy's food down, sprinkled Hope's with Fortiflora, and went to feed Lucky.

Today I will be testing Lucky - her food is not in the plate anymore - I want to see how she does purely in the schedule - she did not eat a very good meal, which means that she will be STARVING next meal - her plate is empty, and her food inside a closed ziplock bag, put away, so I can measure exactly what she ate by the end of the day. :nod: If she eats enough, she will remain on schedule :nod:

Hope ate very well - she is making me proud

Bugsy is leaving food behind - he ate 1.4oz, I just insisted with Fortiflora, he had his 1/2hr to eat, and I pulled his plate away.
His calorie count for this meal is 91.

I am hoping for 3 things today: for the Turkey to arrive today, for them to like it, and for the poop-o-meter!!!

LOL Dr. Pierson!!!!! Actually, I think that is great to show a picture of what a "picture" perfect poop should look like .....

Glad thing's are going SO well - You are doing a great job with this transition and I so appreciate your updates and reports. :cross: For Bugsy to register on the Poop-o-Meter. AND YAY for Turkey to arrive.....

I just spoke with a Nature's Variety representative and she says their foods are not actually 95% meat; instead, they're approximately 15% bone, 30% organs (incl. heart) and 50% meats.

That bone percentage is half again as high as I believe it should be, given the frankenprey guideline is 5 - 10% bone, with 7% being the average, so there is a chance there's more bone content in this food than Bugsy is comfortable with (especially coming off a year and a half with no solid stool at all).

Raw fed cats usually poop every other or every third day. I'd watch Bugsy and if he looks like he's straining or he goes beyond three days, I think I'd do whatever is normally done with a constipated kitty (some kind of kitty laxative?). I would also start replacing an ounce or two of the NV raw with fresh raw meat every day to lower the daily concentration of bone he's eating, or start feeding another brand of food in rotation with the NV.

Not saying that's what's going on here, just giving you a heads-up that it's a possibility.

AC

Auntie Crazy said:

I just spoke with a Nature's Variety representative and she says their foods are not actually 95% meat; instead, they're approximately 15% bone, 30% organs (incl. heart) and 50% meats.

That bone percentage is half again as high as I believe it should be, given the frankenprey guideline is 5 - 10% bone, with 7% being the average, so there is a chance there's more bone content in this food than Bugsy is comfortable with (especially coming off a year and a half with no solid stool at all).

Raw fed cats usually poop every other or every third day. I'd watch Bugsy and if he looks like he's straining or he goes beyond three days, I think I'd do whatever is normally done with a constipated kitty (some kind of kitty laxative?). I would also start replacing an ounce or two of the NV raw with fresh raw meat every day to lower the daily concentration of bone he's eating, or start feeding another brand of food in rotation with the NV.

Not saying that's what's going on here, just giving you a heads-up that it's a possibility.

AC

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Thanks AC - fresh raw meat is not going to happen with Bugsy, but hopefully the Turkey from Primal will arrive today at Pet Supplies Plus.... Although they are also at 10% bone.
The only one that is lower percentage is Venison... frankly, they were not a fan :nod:
I will watch him - if he doesn't poop, I will see about adding some guar gum to his diet....