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if a bully to two cats, a bully to ALL cats?

post #1 of 10
Thread Starter 

@MommyofMany and others:  I take care of a feral cat colony.  In late October, a new cat (" Petey") joined the colony, and was so inordinately friendly, that after I got him neutered, I moved him into my friend's spare room in her house, where we have two other cats we are socializing in order to be placed into Forever Homes.  Petey is around three years old.  A reliable source told me Petey was abandoned by his owner in mid October.

Plain and simple, he is a bully, goes after "Buckley" and "Mystique" (male, female).  We had to put them in separate rooms.

BUT Petey is still super friendly, clingy, almost frantically so.  Lots of marking, some humping of my arm initially, purring 24x7.  I am puzzled as to why he is a bully to other cats, but so affectionate, clingy, not only to me but to my friend. 

Frankly I am loving his loving; my own precious cat is still timid, cautious, startled by loud noises, even after two years.  That said, she loves neck massages, lets me pet her belly sometimes, sleeps with me and lays on my lap.  But hates hates being picked up.

If Petey weren't such a bully, I'd adopt him myself.  Which brings me to my other question, slightly OT:  if a bully to two cats, a bully to ALL cats?

Thanks.

 

post #2 of 10
Regarding bullying: IME, a bully cat will attempt to bully every cat. It's how the other cat reacts as to whether or not the bully continues or not.

I have a bully cat. But he isn't very bright so he doesn't stop, even when he loses. He bullies every cat in the house and we even have to keep him separate from one of them because that cat will not fight back. He even bullies our big dog. But our young dog does not go for being bullied and when Simon tries, she lets him have it straight back. And then Simon runs from the room crying.

We have implemented a time out with Simon. When he starts bullying and getting too aggressive, we put him in a room by himself to calm down. For instance, if he postures on another cat, we tell him no and redirect him. MOST of the time that works. But every once in a whole he will not be redirected and will continue to harass the other cat
post #3 of 10
Of all the cats that I've had over the years, the bullies have been what I've classified as the "alpha-want-to-be's". My worst offender was a cat named Tigger. He was the largest cat in the house but had no chance as alpha with my Stumpy in the house. He died at the young age of 8 from cardiomyopathy and the entire house let out a collective sigh of relief on that day. He came into the house when he was 6 weeks old, so he grew up with all of the cats. My other bully was a foster cat named Dakota. We had him for about 2 years before I found him a home with his brother. He immediately relaxed in that household because his brother didn't care that Dakota was an alpha, and Dakota clearly became the alpha there.

Their interaction with you could be a display of strength to the other cats - look at me, I'm favored by the human! In my house, the alpha will get a cat off my lap simply by jumping up and staring down the other cat to take it's place. When I've tried to stop that sort of behavior in my house, it caused aggression between the cats because they thought I started to favor another. Yes, we can support or upset the natural pecking order in the cats with our actions.

Petey doesn't understand his place in your house but was probably an alpha (or only) cat in his previous home. He's trying to exert himself into the pecking order, and doesn't know the manners on how to do it gracefully. So he bullies, probably because he senses that someone else currently rules your house.

Will he do this where ever he goes? Probably. If he were to go into a home with another cat, I would try to pair him with a young kitten whom he wouldn't feel threatened by, or a submissive female. If he goes into a house with a strong alpha, he will be frustrated and act out.
post #4 of 10
Thread Starter 

MOD, thanks for moving this thread.

And interestingly, Petey is uneasy around dogs (Trysh has three larges ones); Buckley and Mystique are fine with dogs.

As a further example of his, um, strong personality:  I put out a plate of food for Buckley and Petey to share, which they initially did.  But then Petey pushed Buckley out of the way.  So, I opened a separate can of food for Buckley and put it on a separate plate.  Buckley started to eat and then Petey went over the Buckley's plate and started to eat. 

From what I've read, it's up the cats--not humans--to decide pecking order.  The human can't really change that, at least, not without causing other problems.  I want to attribute human psychology to cats:  the reason Petey is a bully is because he is insecure.  If I build up his self-confidence, then he won't be a bully.  Any truth to that?  For what little time I will have with him, any suggestions?

Petey is coming over to my small one bedroom condo for much needed "face time"; Ritz will be in the bedroom.  (I have Feliway and gave Ritz a dose of Rescue Remedy.)  The only interaction I plan on is their smelling each other behind the door and giving each a treat on each side of the door.

My resident cat, Ritz (female, around 2.5 years old), is submissive, timid.  Did not interact with her litter mates much when being socialized by Trysh and myself (rescued at age of 5 months two years ago tomorrow).

I need Petey to come over to get him out of my system before he is adopted out into a Forever Home (only cat).  I think Petey is the right cat for me, the wrong cat for Ritz.  Darn it.

post #5 of 10
We see a lot of bullying around meal time. We feed Simon his and invariably he wants the weakest cat's food. When it is wet food time I physically move Simon back to his bowl to give the others time to eat. However when it is free feed dry and he pushes someone off, I don't do anything. We have multiple bowls so the other cat just goes to another bowl.

If Simon bullies someone off a sunspot, we let it be. Any time other than wet food time we let it go, unless he is physically pushing and jumping them. He is the biggest cat in the house and we have several old kitties that just can't handle his strength.

It isn't about you being able to give him more confidence. It's who he is. Human psychology applied to cats doesn't work. Simon has no issue with confidence, except when someone gets the upper hand on him. He was born in a cat lovers home (his mom was rescued pregnant) an has never wanted for anything. In fact, when we brought him home around 4 months old, he jumped out of the carrier and went straight after our two dogs. They wouldn't go near him for about a year. It's just who he is.

If Ritz is submissive , it might work out. But, not too submissive. I've found it to be a very delicate balance.

Good luck!
post #6 of 10
Thread Starter 

RAMF, yeah, there is submissive and then there is scardy cat submissive.  I think Ritz is the latter.I have to accept who she is and not try to change her.  Doesn't work for two legged people, why would it work for smarter four legged people:)

Ritz stayed under the bed by the wall, as far away from the door (and Petey) as she could get.  She stayed in the same spot the entire time Petey was here, even when I went in and took a nap and sat on the floor and read.  (She sleeps with me at nights and is a wonderful lap cat.)  Once Petey was gone, she came out fairly quickly and acted normally.  Ritz has been desensitized to smells of cats because I am around a LOT of cats through my volunteer activities with cats.  But she hasn't seen another cat for about two years.  Petey was a little more unsure of himself than I thought he'd be.  He did not really like the sound of people coming into the condo building and entering doors.  Then I remembered that he lived in a building identical to mine three months ago; a man about three buildings from mine abandoned him.  Petey hid under the sofa sometimes and came out sometimes.

I will be sad/happy when Petey is adopted into a Forever Home.  I want another cat, but it can't be Petey.  And it can't be now.

post #7 of 10

Cat hierarchy is fluid and changes with the cats involved and with the situation. For instance, in the living room, one cat may get the choicest spot, but in the bedroom, another cat gets it.

 

Sometimes, what may appear to be a bully cat is really a cat who can't get what he / she wants in a particular situation and takes it out on the nearest moving target. You'll see this when cats encounter strange animals through their windows sometimes, too; it's called redirected aggression.

 

Cindy, I don't think one can guess how well any given pair of cats will do, you just have to try it (using slow, careful intros, of course).

 

Pam Johnson-Bennett's "Cat vs Cat" is a fabulous look at feline psychology, communication and group dynamics. I highly recommend it as a fascinating read.

 

Regards.

 

AC

post #8 of 10
Thread Starter 

Thanks for the recommendation; I'll check it out.  I'm fascinated by cat psychology and hierachy, especially so because I take care of a feral/stray dumped cat colony.  I've seen the top cats change as the time passes.

post #9 of 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ritz View Post

MOD, thanks for moving this thread.
And interestingly, Petey is uneasy around dogs (Trysh has three larges ones); Buckley and Mystique are fine with dogs.
As a further example of his, um, strong personality:  I put out a plate of food for Buckley and Petey to share, which they initially did.  But then Petey pushed Buckley out of the way.  So, I opened a separate can of food for Buckley and put it on a separate plate.  Buckley started to eat and then Petey went over the Buckley's plate and started to eat. 
From what I've read, it's up the cats--not humans--to decide pecking order.  The human can't really change that, at least, not without causing other problems.  I want to attribute human psychology to cats:  the reason Petey is a bully is because he is insecure.  If I build up his self-confidence, then he won't be a bully.  Any truth to that?  For what little time I will have with him, any suggestions?
Petey is coming over to my small one bedroom condo for much needed "face time"; Ritz will be in the bedroom.  (I have Feliway and gave Ritz a dose of Rescue Remedy.)  The only interaction I plan on is their smelling each other behind the door and giving each a treat on each side of the door.
My resident cat, Ritz (female, around 2.5 years old), is submissive, timid.  Did not interact with her litter mates much when being socialized by Trysh and myself (rescued at age of 5 months two years ago tomorrow).
I need Petey to come over to get him out of my system before he is adopted out into a Forever Home (only cat).  I think Petey is the right cat for me, the wrong cat for Ritz.  Darn it.
The alpha behavior comes out very strong during feeding times. If Petey continues to push the other cats away from a bowl, he is telling the other cats that he is the alpha. That is not bullying, that is natural pecking order when cats aren't all that comfortable with each other. If the other cats accept Petey as their alpha, Petey will most likely relax and let the other cats eat with him.

Building up self confidence is always a good thing, however, from what you describe, Petey is self confident with his role as alpha, but is not confident that the other cats recognize that. There's not much to do other than watching closely and reinforcing the boundaries if Petey pushes it too far. To your point, they will decide the pecking order. I intervene when they go about it a way that can hurt one of the cats.
post #10 of 10
Thread Starter 

Update.  Well, Ritz and Petey met, and no fur flew.  I had put Petey in the bedroom with the door closed, Ritz in the main room.  When I came back from running an errand, I saw both Ritz and Petey on top of the dining room table, perhaps in pursuit of one another.  There was hissing of course, but what I found surprising was Ritz seemed to be the pursuer, not Petey.  It was Petey who at one time hide under the sofa, not Ritz.  At one point, Petey was in front, Ritz behind, and Ritz smelled Petey's butt.  Petey turned around but other than that had no reaction.  I used balls and fuzzy mice as a distraction when I thought there would be trouble.  And treats when both were behaving themselves (defined as no hissing, just smelling).  Ritz kind of watched Petey's behavior; we both kind of rolled our eyes at Petey's reaction to cat nip.  (Ritz doesn't share in that, um, delight.)  When I thought Ritz had enough, I put Petey back in the bedroom.  Soon Ritz jumped on my lap.  And, yeah, five minutes later, Petey came out.  But I wanted at some point for Petey to see that Ritz was on my lap, that Ritz was top banana in my home.  Later when Ritz's hisses escalated into a growl, I picked up Petey and put him into a cat carrier.  Ritz saw me calmly pick up Petey, and Petey was very calm when I picked him up.  This is relevant because one of the reasons I want another cat is (unrealistically?) so the new cat can show Ritz that not all sounds are scary, and being picked up isn't a bad thing.

I may bring Petey back again this afternoon.  It will be interesting to see if Ritz remembers Petey, and vice versa; and what the level of acceptance is.

I am still of the mind that Petey is not the right second cat for Ritz.  But I am encouraged that perhaps Ritz would be accepting of another cat; before this, I had my doubts that she would accept any cat.

 

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