bowl/dish

ldg · Dec 22, 2011

No, but I don't put my head down and lick the food off my dish. I use forks, knives, and spoons. And if I did lean down to lick the food off my plate, I don't have fur to pick up bits of food or bacteria in the minute cracks on the dish.

The concern is generally not about cats getting sick. It is about allergies or sensitives. It has nothing to do with belief. People who have been battling chin acne on their cats will be all too happy to tell you about the problem. For some, all it took was switching from plastic or ceramic to stainless or glass. For others, it was removing the plastic mat underneath the dishes.

The FACT is that bacteria can collect in the cracks in ceramics or in plastics, and this can cause chin acne. Why run the risk. Use glass or stainless.

ducman69 · Dec 22, 2011

LDG said:
No, but I don't put my head down and lick the food off my dish. I use forks, knives, and spoons.

The FACT is that bacteria can collect in the cracks in ceramics or in plastics, and this can cause chin acne. Why run the risk. Use glass or stainless.

I assure you, whether or not you lift the food to your mouth with a spoon or lick it off the plate, your food is coming in contact with your plate. If there were significant bacteria on your plate, it would be on your moist food, and then in your mouth, that is common sense.

Thus we simply disagree on what you state is fact, and I do not believe there is any risk, and am confident in washed ceramic plates being sanitary or I (and most of the world) wouldn't eat on them.

I am guessing someone online heard something about crazed ceramic and then used such an extreme exaggeration to cite that all ceramic plates harbor bacteria.

carolina · Dec 22, 2011

Ducman69 said:
I assure you, whether or not you lift the food to your mouth with a spoon or lick it off the plate, your food is coming in contact with your plate. If there were significant bacteria on your plate, it would be on your moist food, and then in your mouth, that is common sense.

Thus we simply disagree on what you state is fact, and I do not believe there is any risk, and am confident in washed ceramic plates being sanitary or I (and most of the world) wouldn't eat on them.

I am guessing someone online heard something about crazed ceramic and then used such an extreme exaggeration to cite that all ceramic plates harbor bacteria.

Ducman.... IMHO to you now everything has become "someone read this or that online" and this and that can not be verified, therefore it is gossip, and not true. It makes things really hard, since this is an online community... :dk: You can actually see the little cracks on the ceramic surface. Not all plates have it, but yes, with time they can develops cracks... With daily use they can. And yes, in those cracks with moisture from saliva, water, plus the food, you are creating the perfect environment for bacteria. Not bad for all cats.... But for those fighting feline acne, it is an issue. So, as you say, a matter of common sense.
Obviously, you do not have that issue with glass or Stainless, as you do not have a glaze. You do not have the deep scratches/porosity you have with plastic either.
Remember, there are members here dealing with Acne, those members have issues that are different that the usual cat. Mine can deal with ceramic AND plastic. Some do have extreme issues - so extreme in fact that they can't even use plastic mats. Not all cats are the same here.

During manufacturing:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glaze_defects
http://gare.com/support_faqs.cfm

ldg · Dec 22, 2011

Ducman69 said:
I assure you, whether or not you lift the food to your mouth with a spoon or lick it off the plate, your food is coming in contact with your plate. If there were significant bacteria on your plate, it would be on your moist food, and then in your mouth, that is common sense.

Thus we simply disagree on what you state is fact, and I do not believe there is any risk, and am confident in washed ceramic plates being sanitary or I (and most of the world) wouldn't eat on them.

I am guessing someone online heard something about crazed ceramic and then used such an extreme exaggeration to cite that all ceramic plates harbor bacteria.

I'm not talking about getting sick from ingesting bacteria. It seems you didn't read the entire post? Or I'm just misunderstanding how your response has anything to do with bacteria getting on a cat's chin?

Unfortunately I don't know the right combination to find threads without a lot of unnecessary time spent searching, but there have been members of TCS that found when they switched from ceramic bowls or plates to stainless steel or glass, their cats stopped having problems with chin acne. That is not a belief, it is the experience of members of this site, whether currently active or formerly active, or just here to solve the problem of chin acne. It's not, as you claim, some "someone online heard something about crazed ceramic and then used such an extreme exaggeration to cite that all ceramic plates harbor bacteria." I am not making this claim, I am citing the documented experience of people with their cats on THIS site.

What's the issue?

I'm not saying all ceramics have a problem. I'm saying why bother with ceramics when you KNOW you have even a less chance of winding up with chin acne problems with your cat(s) if you use stainless steel or glass?

Again - I am NOT talking about problems with INGESTING bacteria.

MY issue is that I believe it is irresponsible to make the claim that "If you want ceramic, you don't need to worry about its hygiene." With some ceramics, perhaps. But it is a blanket statement that is simply not correct.

auntie crazy · Dec 22, 2011

LDG said:
Ducman69 said:

I assure you, whether or not you lift the food to your mouth with a spoon or lick it off the plate, your food is coming in contact with your plate. If there were significant bacteria on your plate, it would be on your moist food, and then in your mouth, that is common sense.

Thus we simply disagree on what you state is fact, and I do not believe there is any risk, and am confident in washed ceramic plates being sanitary or I (and most of the world) wouldn't eat on them.

I am guessing someone online heard something about crazed ceramic and then used such an extreme exaggeration to cite that all ceramic plates harbor bacteria.

Click to expand...

I'm not talking about getting sick from ingesting bacteria. It seems you didn't read the entire post? Or I'm just misunderstanding how your response has anything to do with bacteria getting on a cat's chin?

Unfortunately I don't know the right combination to find threads without a lot of unnecessary time spent searching, but there have been members of TCS that found when they switched from ceramic bowls or plates to stainless steel or glass, their cats stopped having problems with chin acne. That is not a belief, it is the experience of members of this site, whether currently active or formerly active, or just here to solve the problem of chin acne. It's not, as you claim, some "someone online heard something about crazed ceramic and then used such an extreme exaggeration to cite that all ceramic plates harbor bacteria." I am not making this claim, I am citing the documented experience of people with their cats on THIS site.

What's the issue?

I'm not saying all ceramics have a problem. I'm saying why bother with ceramics when you KNOW you have even a less chance of winding up with chin acne problems with your cat(s) if you use stainless steel or glass?

Again - I am NOT talking about problems with INGESTING bacteria.

MY issue is that I believe it is irresponsible to make the claim that "If you want ceramic, you don't need to worry about its hygiene." With some ceramics, perhaps. But it is a blanket statement that is simply not correct.

Ducman, in addition to everything Carolina and LDG posted, I'd like to ask you to please stop turning every thread that contains something you've not yet experienced or learned into an argument. I'm just a simple member of TCS weary of every thread becoming a battleground for your agenda, but I'd like you to think about what you get out of being here, and what you really want to bring to the TCS community.

Every experience is unique, and every TCS member who answers a request for help or advice has the right to offer their unique insight without having to defend themselves. More importantly, every new member should be able to anticipate the freedom to come here and ask for help without having to endure an unexpected firestorm. Many of them have cats that are in trouble; for heaven's sake, where is your empathy?

- - - - - - - -

Racn1320, I'm so sorry about all this. I'm very glad you're a long-time TCS member, and know the forum isn't the contentious battlefield it may seem.

I hope you were able to pull an adequate answer out of everything posted!

AC

ducman69 · Dec 23, 2011

Auntie Crazy said:
Every experience is unique, and every TCS member who answers a request for help or advice has the right to offer their unique insight without having to defend themselves.

Just let it go. As I said, we can agree to disagree.

Sorry about the drama-fest Racn!

mrblanche · Dec 23, 2011

Purely for information purposes, good ceramic dishes don't have surface cracks. In fact, the surface of fired ceramics is glass. (Learned all about it in a fired ceramics class. )

carolina · Dec 23, 2011

I am going to stop posting on this thread for the sake of the OP. It is sad IMHO that this, like some recent threads, have become yet another IMO thread.
I wanted, however, post some Veterinarians recommendations on the matter, and leave it up to the OP to make her own decision. I found plenty of experiences online, of other cat parents, who were having severe acne issues, and switching to glass and stainless helped their kitties.
I can PM these links to the OP, however, because these are on other forums, it is against the rules to post.

Here are some vet and veterinarian hospitals, shelters recommendations on the matter - this is my final post - Good luck to you,
All my best,

http://www.justanswer.com/cat-health/40cxf-feline-acne.html

Dr. Scott :
Plastic bowls can cause the chin reaction. Ceramic bowls are possible as well. Metal and glass should not cause problems. Chin acne is not common in a cat this age. The problem is caused by staph bacterial growth on the chin. The only alternative to washing the chin is oral antibiotics, which is also easier said than done in some cats.There are long acting antibiotic injections on the market as well. A long acting penicillin shot may fix the problem without having to clean or orally medicate the cat.

Read more: feline acne - JustAnswer http://www.justanswer.com/cat-health/40cxf-feline-acne.html#ixzz1hOdSyngw

http://www.cathospitalofchicago.com/online-cat-health-library/acne-in-cats/

Prevention
We recommend switching from plastic or ceramic bowls to stainless steel bowls. Some cats can have a contact reaction to plastic. Stainless steel bowls tend to have the slowest bacterial growth. If the acne continues to be a problem the bowls should be sterilized daily. If your cat likes to drink from the faucet, try to dry his or her chin afterwards.

http://www.mdsalliance.org/pet-health/general-health/

Meals
Feed a new kitten a high quality diet designed for kittens. Your veterinarian is your best source for information regarding an appropriate diet for your kitten or adult cat. Dry foods are usually most economical and have the advantage of providing a rough surface that will help reduce plaque and tartar buildup on your kitten’s teeth, but canned foods can be fed/supplemented if desired. Amount fed will depend on the diet, as well as the age, size, and activity level of your kitten or cat. Using stainless steel bowls is recommended because plastic and ceramic bowls can scratch, leaving crevices for bacteria to hide. The latter types of bowls (and resultant resident bacteria) have been associated with feline “acne” and skin irritation.

momofmany · Dec 23, 2011

mrblanche said:
Purely for information purposes, good ceramic dishes don't have surface cracks. In fact, the surface of fired ceramics is glass. (Learned all about it in a fired ceramics class. )

Thanks for pointing this out Mike, as that is where my head was going on the topic.

I bought a set of inexpensive ceramic dishes from Penney's one time, and they started to chip and crack within a month of purchase. Begin disgusted with them, I sold them and bought a set of Fiesta Ware, also ceramic, but fired at a higher temperature. That set has gone without a chip in 5 years.

All ceramic is not made equally. Unless you invest in a quality ceramic pet dish, chances are you are getting something that will have surface cracks. Porcelain is a high fired ceramic that forms a glass surface.

I have rubber bottom stainless steel, high quality ceramic, and porcelain bowls for mine.

And btw, toilets are made from porcelain. I know, technically its a high fired ceramic, but it is VERY different from normal ceramic.

ducman69 · Dec 23, 2011

Momofmany said:
And btw, toilets are made from porcelain. I know, technically its a high fired ceramic, but it is VERY different from normal ceramic.

Its not "technically" ceramic, it is ceramic. Ceramic is unofficially graded as pottery, stoneware, porcelain, and china. Porcelain is the grade of "normal" ceramic that everyone uses for dinnerware, so it is certainly a normal ceramic. When you hear "ceramic plates", or "ceramic toilets", or "ceramic washing machines", that is the norm, and they are not referring to low grade pottery clay. The whole point of bringing up the anti-slip mats before is so that you can use normal dishes, it doesn't have to be pet specific, which includes normal ceramic, porcelain, the same thing you eat off of. As Mike pointed out, they don't have surface cracks, and they aren't a bacteria risk dishwasher or no. If one wants to believe otherwise, by all means, but I just want to make it clear that I was not suggesting people eat off of crazed, chipped, or broken and glued plates... which I thought was common sense.

ldg · Dec 24, 2011

A normal, but inexpensive, ceramic (human) plate (sorry about the weird glare - because the glaze is technically glass fused with the substance used for the dish, it is hard to get a picture) :

Many cats do not have a problem with plastic, ceramic, stainless steel or glass. Some are allergic to plastic. Others get chin acne from the bacteria that plastic and SOME ceramics and even some stainless steel can harbor.

Many pet-specific dishes are sold that are ceramic, and most sold in pet stores are of the same (or lower) quality as the plate pictured above.

Glass is the safest material for feeding and watering your pets.

sarahp · Dec 24, 2011

I think everyone has had their say now, so I will close this thread

bowl/dish

ldg

TCS Member

ducman69

TCS Member

carolina

TCS Member

ldg

TCS Member

auntie crazy

TCS Member

ducman69

TCS Member

mrblanche

TCS Member

carolina

TCS Member

momofmany

TCS Member

ducman69

TCS Member

ldg

TCS Member

sarahp

TCS Member

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