color question: Is my cat golden shaded or not?

Actually very few breeders here these days. Firstly, I would be asking Meatballs breeder what she thinks of the colour

There are usually different shades and tones in any colour of any breed. She could be a golden shaded, I don't have that colour in my breed so hopefully another breeder can offer an opinion soon.

To me she looks more like golden tabby (obviously with white, is that allowed?) than shaded. You're not supposed to see any pattern in shaded cat when it has grown up (excluding possibly few stripes in tail, sometimes even in the legs but it's not a good thing). Do you have a kitten pic of her?

I breed silver shaded (and other silvers) Brits and got one golden spotted tabby kitten with very strong contrast in my current litter (both parents are silver). Shaded cats can have ticked hairs (the "golden-black-golden-black" which you mentioned) but mostly the hairs just have black tips. The only accepted eye color is green in some registries (like Fifé), where is your cat registered in?

I have a British Longhair who was originally registered as a shaded silver, but he got darker over time and he definitely is some kind of tabby (probably spotted like 2 of his siblings), and his eyes are 'dirty yellowish' color.

Here's a pic:

and another taken when he had more visible pattern

And this is what his color should look like if he actually were a shaded silver

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Originally Posted by yingying  there are also some from root to tip "golden - black - golden - black". Now how should I classify that?

That's tabby or agouti, ticking on each strand of fur
 

Quote:

Originally Posted by NorthernGlow 

To me she looks more like golden tabby (obviously with white, is that allowed?)

 

I hoped you would reply shaded is not my thing. I believe with white is allowed.

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Originally Posted by missymotus 

I hoped you would reply shaded is not my thing. I believe with white is allowed.

 

Yeah, that very likely depends on the registry and breeds as well. (BSH standard doesn't allow golden or silver mixed with white, at least in Fifé).

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by yingying 

 

If shaded cat shouldn't show any pattern at all, then I think even Meatball's mother shouldn't be classified as shaded golden either, because I can definitely see tabby pattern on her four legs.

 

 

BTW, NorthenGlow, your sliver boy is stunning! Can I have him? :D

The legs can have striping in shaded cats, but it's a fault in breeds that get points from color so not a desired trait.

Which silver boy do you mean, the longhair or shorthair? 
 

Quote:

Originally Posted by NorthernGlow 

Yeah, that very likely depends on the registry and breeds as well. (BSH standard doesn't allow golden or silver mixed with white, at least in Fifé).

Just referring to Siberians for the 'with white'

She looks like a calico & tabby really. That means she's part tabby (very clear tabby markings on her face there), but also has three colors on her coat: white, gray and red (which is where she looks golden). Her pattern is a bit confusing, as the red and gray are very mixed, almost like a torbie (tortoiseshell and tabby). Golden, like silver, is where you have long hair that is mostly white, with colored tips (either black for silver or red for golden).

She is gorgeous, btw!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anne 
Golden, like silver, is where you have long hair that is mostly white, with colored tips (either black for silver or red for golden).

 

She is gorgeous, btw!

Golden cats have apricot color undercoat, hence the name 'golden' as it looks like it. The tips can be black, blue, lilac, chocolate, red etc. just like in silvers. The black on golden tabbies tends to turn into warmer shade, looking a bit reddish/brownish as the cat grows up. (And shaded cats are also agouti, like tabbies, and unlike smokes).

Here's few pics of my golden spotted BSH kitten (he's a LOT bigger now, but we don't have day light this time of year so can't get good pics, his pattern is is already starting to get warmer shade)

And here is a pic of the palest possible version of golden: (black) golden shell (equals chinchilla pattern in silvers) male that belongs to a friend of mine, isn't he handsome!

Quote:

Originally Posted by NorthernGlow 

And here is a pic of the palest possible version of golden: (black) golden shell (equals chinchilla pattern in silvers) male that belongs to a friend of mine, isn't he handsome

 

Gorgeous!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anne 

She looks like a calico & tabby really. That means she's part tabby (very clear tabby markings on her face there), but also has three colors on her coat: white, gray and red (which is where she looks golden). Her pattern is a bit confusing, as the red and gray are very mixed, almost like a torbie (tortoiseshell and tabby). Golden, like silver, is where you have long hair that is mostly white, with colored tips (either black for silver or red for golden).

 

She is gorgeous, btw!

All tabbies have various shadings in their coat, this is not the same as Calico or Tortie colours. I'm not seeing any blue (or grey as you called it) in this cats coat either

I guess I'm influenced by having a torbie of my own here - I can definitely see a darker shade (hard to tell from the pictures) - it's not all red tabby there. I think there's a patch on one of her back legs which is more clearly not red and far darker. She definitely has a white tummy though, so it's not a torbie. The less white there is, the more mixed the black/blue/brown and red/cream often are - so I'm sticking to my diagnosis here ;)

From the CFA website -

I really do think she's a patterned calico. I think the only way to tell for sure is enlist her in a cat show and get a professional judge to take a close look?

I believe the CFA refers to golden and silver as smokes? It's been a while since I looked into this, so I went back and checked their colors FAQ and I can't see any reference to goldens or silvers specifically. For smokes this is what they have -

I'm always happy to learn more, so if you can find something authoritative about goldens and silvers, please do share!

Quote:

Originally Posted by yingying 

I finally got some pictures of Meatball as kitten uploaded :) She really looks a lot more "golden" when she was a kitten...

 

5 weeks

 

8 weeks

The second pic shows what I mentioned about the pattern staring to get warmer. The first pic seems to show an actual red spot on her leg, so she could be a golden torbie (tortie tabby) with white. If the father indeed is red, then she is a golden tortie tabby. But definitely a golden tabby of some sort.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anne 

I believe the CFA refers to golden and silver as smokes? It's been a while since I looked into this, so I went back and checked their colors FAQ and I can't see any reference to goldens or silvers specifically. For smokes this is what they have -

 

 

I'm always happy to learn more, so if you can find something authoritative about goldens and silvers, please do share!

Smokes are non-agouti silvers. Shaded, chichilla and tabbies are agoutis, they are not smokes, smoke is a color type of it's own. Smoke is a color where 3/4 of a single hair is tipped with color (black, blue, red, choco etc.) and 1/4 of the single hair is silver (looks like pure white). There are no golden smokes.

This is what a (black) smoke looks like:

I'm not familiar with that definition of golden, sorry. As I said, it's been a while, but from some quick browsing through both CFA's TICA's websites I couldn't find any actual definition of golden. Can you link me to one on an official website?

To me, this beauty still looks like either a longhair patterned calico or patched tabby, or maybe even a torbie. I think we agree on that, I'm just not sure on adding the "golden" part, as I'm not familiar with any official definition for it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anne 

I'm not familiar with that definition of golden, sorry. As I said, it's been a while, but from some quick browsing through both CFA's TICA's websites I couldn't find any actual definition of golden. Can you link me to one on an official website?

CFA: British Shorthair standard for example explains what is required from a show quality goldens (pages 1 and 2) : http://www.cfa.org/documents/breeds/standards/british.pdf

FIFé: Pretty much sums up golden in all breeds, starting from page 24: http://www1.fifeweb.org/dnld/std/GEN-TABBY.pdf (the EMS code for golden is 'y')

TICA: Uniform Color Descriptions, goldens start from page 18 and continues through every color/pattern it can be present with: http://www.tica.org/members/publications/ucd.pdf?zoom_highlight=uniform#search="uniform"

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoldyCat 

I'm not familiar with golden shaded, but it sounds like it might be a color version of smoke. 

There are only silver smokes. Golden smoke doesn't exist. (And smoke is non-agouti, shaded is agouti, so they are genetically very different. Smoke is like 'solid' and shaded is like 'tabby').

The mother looks like a black silver shaded and the sire obviously is red tabby with white= your kitty is a golden tortie (spotted or mackerel) tabby (with white). If you don't breed or show her, you don't need to change the color in her registration papers, but the breeder should have also known that black dam + red sire= tortie female kittens & black male kittens.

I'm not sure but I don't think HHP class in TICA separates cats by colors, just by hair length so it doesn't matter, and she is correctly registered as a golden, so if they do judge them by color divisions she would be in the right place anyway (some one correct me if I'm wrong).

She looks golden to me, and SO BEAUTIFUL!!!  When I was helping a cat adoption team there was a pretty girl with the same coloring they named "Honey Bun," because she had all of those colors.

Just getting in on this as I have not been around for quite awhile :(  First your Sib is beautiful!  Siberian color and especially pattern can be very tricky and confusing - especially to those not familiar with it, much like Maine Coons.  Mostly because Sib's come in nearly every color or pattern.

Yes, your gorgeous kitty is a golden!  Of course, there is a wide variance as to what people accept as "golden" some are really red and some are really brown but still labeled as a golden.  And the gold color doesn't photograph very well :(

The pattern is also a bit subjective - though it shouldn't be.  First you have to see if your breeder went by CFA or TICA standards.  But I would classify your kitty as a shaded as your breeder did.  In my opinion it's not a Tabby. 

Keep in mind this is only my opinion which is that of a fellow Sib owner -not a breeder.  I only have what info I've been graciously given by other breeders and owners while I was looking for my own beauty.

Some new info fresh from TICA.. I've been waiting 5 weeks for my litters registration papers and now they finally arrived. The golden spotted tabby kitten was however mistakenly registered as a black golden shaded in his slip. I contacted TICA and asked if they could fix it as I had originally given them the correct color info (golden spotted), and they replied that their system doesn't yet recognize golden spotted tabby term, it automatically switches it into a golden shaded.

So this means that Meatball's breeder may not have made a mistake after all, unless she was registered as a black golden shaded instead of golden shaded torbie. But yeah, TICA's system fails if they try to put golden tabby in there. I also asked them if this will somehow affect possible showing of the cat as my golden kitten clearly isn't anywhere near shaded, didn't get a reply yet.

Quote:

Originally Posted by yingying 

Meatball's registration only say "golden shaded". Neither black golden shaded nor golden shaded torbie :/ It's so weird they don't have golden tabby in the system. Afterall, they have like hundreds of colors listed, yet they don't have some very basic options? I can see some improvements that should be done :)

That's weird. I didn't know you could register a cat without an actual color (silver or golden aren't alone a color, I mean you can't have a cat that is only golden or only silver, there's always the base color there which is affected by the inhibitor gene, the cat is always first some color like black, blue red, tortie, then you can add the silver or golden to it)! My kitten was registered as a black golden shaded and the others as black silver shadeds. They indeed have very confusing system.