Please respond to this scenario and put my mind at rest

Since I've only had a few jobs so far in my life time, I decided I'd widen my veiw to see how the majority of everyone's workplace would see this.  So I'm going to give you a senario and you answer what/how  you or your place of work would respond or what their procedure would be. Please feel free to leave a reply that gives your answer in more detail.

Your place of work hires a new employee. The new employee was given minimal training before being thrown into working a weekend shift with no managers present. The only people the new employee will see are customers and other employees who aren't even trained for what this particular position (maintenance, janitors, etc.)

 You come in for your shift, taking over for the new employee. You find out that she/he has been in the back office working on a test for school, which a manager had told the new employee that it was okay. You find that nothing has been done as far as the previous shift closing their shift or doing their final drawer count along with other questionable tasks that the statuses of were unknown. While you wait for the new hire to count the drawer, prepare the drop and close out her shift, you try to clearify what else needs to be done. One of which is something along the line of the system is saying that something/someone is there that shouldn't be and that there's an alert flashing on the alarm panel.

You try to find out if both had been looked into and after some blank looks, the new hire snaps at you and tells you to stop talking that she knows how to do her job. The conversation continues with the new employee being extremely disrespectful to you and tell you that you needed to be quiet . You decide to find out if the new hire is meaning to sound so rude or not because you know from past experiences some people tend to sound rude when they don't, she says she doesn't but immediantly returns to telling you to stop talking. You stop counted the drawer and to look at her telling her that she needed to start keeping better tabs on her tone of voice because she was sounding very disrespectfuly especially since you're only trying to help and find out what all has or hasn't been done. She tells you she doesn't care. You tell her that she's a new hire and that she's not going to know everything and since its everyone's responsibilty to make sure things get done, she needed to listen to what was being said.  The new hire tells you that she doesn't have to listen to you because you're not a manager. You respond saying that you have worked here longer than she has so she needs to listen to what she is being told or asked because you know what needs to be done and the manager expects more established employees to make sure that new employees are doing things correctly. She says that it doesn't matter who has been at a job longer, she doesn't have to listen to any one but the manager.

The new employee leaves after both of you state that the manager will be notified about this situation.

I chose B. IMO, any disrespect shown towards any one at work, is a strong ground for dismissal. 

I went with B and C, new staff should look up to those and listen to those that have worked there longer, its the way to learn how the business runs IMO new staff member shouldnt of been allowed to sit and study for a test whilst at work also

I voted C. Established employees are valuable and are in more of a managerial position when there is no manager present. A new person will not get far if she is not willing to learn from another employee, especially when she was barely trained to begin with.

That new person will not last long, considering she's making enemies and acting belligerently at the get-go. Jobs are a precious commodity, and should be filled with those willing to do their job, and do it well.

Thanks for all the responses I've gotten this early in the morning. So far with everyone's responses I'm not crazy and as most of you probably have already guessed, this situation happened to me last night at work.

 

resqchick said:

I voted C. Established employees are valuable and are in more of a managerial position when there is no manager present. A new person will not get far if she is not willing to learn from another employee, especially when she was barely trained to begin with.

That new person will not last long, considering she's making enemies and acting belligerently at the get-go. Jobs are a precious commodity, and should be filled with those willing to do their job, and do it well.

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Yeah, I hate to say it but I hope she doesn't last long.  She has already made enemies with the most senior employee here. He's worked here for I think 4-5 years and is line for a management position when one opens up another property owned by the same company here in town. He had been assigned to train her and she was showing him the same disrespect as she showed me and if she's not even going to bother listening to him then she's not going to listen to anyone else. Its said that she won't even listen to the person who's training her.
 

-_aj_- said:

I went with B and C, new staff should look up to those and listen to those that have worked there longer, its the way to learn how the business runs IMO new staff member shouldnt of been allowed to sit and study for a test whilst at work also

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I didn't think she should have been allowed too either at least not on her second day by herself. Maybe after her first week if she hadn't made any mistakes but not her second day but if the manager tells her its okay then who am I to argue. I have to admit though, I wish the manager would have called me to let me know that nothing was going to be done when I got in.
 

yayi said:

I chose B. IMO, any disrespect shown towards any one at work, is a strong ground for dismissal. 

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I agree and I admit, my tone got a little harsh about half way through the incident and in my incident report left for the manager I mentioned it several times that I didn't handle it as well as I should have and as someone who once trained and managed staff at a previous job, I should have remained calmer than I did. Even though its not an excuse, I had been fighting off a fever of 101 degrees and nausea all day along with dealing with...monthly female issues so I was already emotionally drained before I even got to work.  Not an excuse but still I was dealing with a lot and many females know how difficult it sometime is to stay in control just with the horror-monal changes with those monthly issues.
 

I chose B and C but I do feel the new employee was more in the wrong. When you get a job you should bust your butt to learn what you need to learn so that way you can perform that job to the best of your ability. A blatent disregard towards other employees should earn you a swift kick in the bojangles. In a shift where there is no manager than the senior employee is kind of the acting manager and if something slips...is it going to fall on the new employee no its gonna go back on the senior employee wanting to know what they didnt catch the slip or they didnt handle it or whatever because the senior employee has the experiance and training and has been working there for a long period of time for a reason...they know how to do their job and do it well.

Hopefully that new employee doesnt last long cuz I know if I were working with her..Id make her shifts so miserable that she quit....I can not tolerate people who act like they are better than the job they wanted to get and got hired for and I have gone out of my way to instigate people quitting jobs because of their crappy attitudes and bad work ethic......Im not the easiest person to work with..especially if my coworker is lazy and disrespectful.

I heard from the girl that works mornings during the week that I'm the third person (not second like I thought) that this new employee has totally ticked off. The girl I talked to this morning hasn't seen this side of the new employee yet but I have a theory of why that is though I'm not going to state it because people may think bad of me if I do.
 

3CatsN1Dog said:

I chose B and C but I do feel the new employee was more in the wrong. When you get a job you should bust your butt to learn what you need to learn so that way you can perform that job to the best of your ability. A blatent disregard towards other employees should earn you a swift kick in the bojangles. In a shift where there is no manager than the senior employee is kind of the acting manager and if something slips...is it going to fall on the new employee no its gonna go back on the senior employee wanting to know what they didnt catch the slip or they didnt handle it or whatever because the senior employee has the experiance and training and has been working there for a long period of time for a reason...they know how to do their job and do it well.

Hopefully that new employee doesnt last long cuz I know if I were working with her..Id make her shifts so miserable that she quit....I can not tolerate people who act like they are better than the job they wanted to get and got hired for and I have gone out of my way to instigate people quitting jobs because of their crappy attitudes and bad work ethic......Im not the easiest person to work with..especially if my coworker is lazy and disrespectful.

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Its funny that you say that because I'm a night auditor and in my job description I am also the "Acting Night Manager."  I sooo wanted to throw that out there at her but I didn't. I figured that even though its true, it wouldn't look good on my part. I still had some control over what came out of my mouth lol. 

Lol I can handle lazy, as long as what little they do is done correctly then I can handle it...I don't like it but I can handle it.   Lol wow you do sound like some one I wouldn't want to work with...IF I was a crappy employee, which I'm not lol.  The worst I ever do is keep to a strictly professional level with them. I don't chit-chat, I don't dolly at the end of my shift. I tell them any thing that needs to be passed on, any problems I dealt with during my shift and that's it. I keep things short and to the point.  They usually get the point that I'm not the most pleased with them but I keep it professional and pleasant. 

What I would do is document in a non-emotional, non-personal manner in writing the tasks she fails to perform and the way in which she responds when you attempt to help or find out what has and hasn't been done. Submit reports daily or weekly. It would give them the grounds they need to fire her.

I chose C.

I worked in retail a number of years and when no manager is present, it falls to senior employees to make sure everything is done.

It actually works this way in restaurants and bars as well.

It is up to senior employees to help new hires, and though some leeway is given to new hires, disrespect on anyone's part is never tolerated.

I chose C. I've never been a manager or a supervisor, officially, but I have informally trained new employees through the shadow method. I've never had one be ridiculously disrespectful like that, but if they did, I would probably lose it on them.

This girl needs to be fired. Perhaps if she had been there a few months and starting exhibiting this attitude, I could understand. But her FIRST DAY on the shift, she starts mouthing off to people? This is a symptom of a deeper problem that I don't think will be fixed by management.

Speaking of which, letting a new hire do schoolwork on the first day? Management also sounds iffy to me...

speakhandsforme said:

I chose C. I've never been a manager or a supervisor, officially, but I have informally trained new employees through the shadow method. I've never had one be ridiculously disrespectful like that, but if they did, I would probably lose it on them.
This girl needs to be fired. Perhaps if she had been there a few months and starting exhibiting this attitude, I could understand. But her FIRST DAY on the shift, she starts mouthing off to people? This is a symptom of a deeper problem that I don't think will be fixed by management.
Speaking of which, letting a new hire do schoolwork on the first day? Management also sounds iffy to me...

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I agree, nothing that management says will changer her attitude. She'll say anything the please the manager but then she'll still act the same way with other employees.

I also agree, I admit that the manager is pretty unprofessional on how he deals with stuff, he's one of these people that avoid conflict and will do just about anything so he doesn't have to deal with conflicts. It doesn't surprise me that he said okay to her doing school work at all and even though I didn't like it, he is the manager so I can't really be upset with the new hire for doing something the manager said was okay.

I didn't pick any of the listed choices.  In my opinion it was the managers fault for putting someone so ill prepared into a shift that didn't have any other staff on to orientate her more thoroughly.

It is also my opinion that the conversation that took place between the 2 employees should not have taken place. Again, it is up to the manager to have that kind of discussion with their employees, not leave it to another employee.

Also, since I wasn't present, and can only base my views on what is typed here (not seeing body language, voice tone, inflection etc), based on what I am reading , there really was no "effective" communication going on between either employee. While both likely didn't mean to be disrespectful, rude or come across as "attacking", reading what apparently was said (and I'm assuming in essentially the same words), I can see how both would get their backs up.  There are lots of "you" words being used on both sides, and that right away points blame.

Here is a link to some effective communication techniques. http://advancedlifeskills.com/blog/14-very-effective-communication-skills/

So far as one telling the other "shut up", well, I agree that that was plain rude, no matter how it was said.

In the future the better way to approach something like this would be to start of saying something along the lines of "I see you survived your shift. It must have been difficult and frustrating to be thrown to the wolves so soon after starting this job."  That shows you care and that you empathize with her about how she must be feeling. It gets the person trusting you and they are more likely to come over to your side and be more open to hearing what you have to say.

As well, perhaps your manager can make a check list of things that need to be done on each shift and each shift has to check off and initial that the task was actually done.  This would be for all shifts, all employees, not just new ones. I know plenty of "old" employees who do the minimum or less, if they can get away with it.

UPDATE on the situation. Looks like the new employee is giving me the silent treatment. Last night at shift change, she didn't answer any of my questions despite me being friendly towards her.  The whole point of having shift change is for the two shifts to communicate with each other but it only works if the employees talk to each other and obviously she can't even do that.   I'm sorry, its just fustrating, despite me not likeing her on a personal level, I am able and willing to put my feeling behind me and be pleasant towards her but if she can't put the animosity she feels for me away long enough for a shift change that should only take 5 minutes then she's not doing her job.

Natalie_ca said:

I didn't pick any of the listed choices.  In my opinion it was the managers fault for putting someone so ill prepared into a shift that didn't have any other staff on to orientate her more thoroughly.

It is also my opinion that the conversation that took place between the 2 employees should not have taken place. Again, it is up to the manager to have that kind of discussion with their employees, not leave it to another employee.

Also, since I wasn't present, and can only base my views on what is typed here (not seeing body language, voice tone, inflection etc), based on what I am reading , there really was no "effective" communication going on between either employee. While both likely didn't mean to be disrespectful, rude or come across as "attacking", reading what apparently was said (and I'm assuming in essentially the same words), I can see how both would get their backs up.  There are lots of "you" words being used on both sides, and that right away points blame.

Here is a link to some effective communication techniques. http://advancedlifeskills.com/blog/14-very-effective-communication-skills/

So far as one telling the other "shut up", well, I agree that that was plain rude, no matter how it was said.

In the future the better way to approach something like this would be to start of saying something along the lines of "I see you survived your shift. It must have been difficult and frustrating to be thrown to the wolves so soon after starting this job."  That shows you care and that you empathize with her about how she must be feeling. It gets the person trusting you and they are more likely to come over to your side and be more open to hearing what you have to say.

As well, perhaps your manager can make a check list of things that need to be done on each shift and each shift has to check off and initial that the task was actually done.  This would be for all shifts, all employees, not just new ones. I know plenty of "old" employees who do the minimum or less, if they can get away with it.

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The scenario wasn't really detailed on how everyone's body language was from beginning to end and I admit, while I did end up loosing my cool, at the beginning, when I first came in to work and started trying to figure out what had or hadn't been done yet, I was pleasant, and cheerful despite me being sick. I asked how her day was and everything, it wasn't until she started snapping back at me and not wanting to respond to any of my questions when I started to act less than pleasant and I admit that I should have kept my cool. I wasn't treating her any differently than any other staff, she may have felt like I was just asking all these questions because I didn't trust her to get things done but the truth is that I ask these types of questions to every front desk person. We all do, because if something gets forgotten because it wasn't put in the log or because it wasn't ask, its everyone's fault, so we all tend to ask each other during shift change if there's anything that may have been forgotten.

See that's the thing, the previous day was her first official day by herself and I had no problems during either shift change. She left plenty of notes in the log book and I didn't see anything that warrented mentioning. I asked her how everything was and if she had any problems during her shift and she was pleasant. It wasn't until the next night during that we had problems and I came in in as good as mood as the previous day even if I wasn't feeling well. It wasn't until she started not wanting to respond to me or giving me cynical answers that I started looking my patience with her.

IMHO this is not a conversation to have in between employees. And IMHO, nope, there is no seniority; unless there are clear titles that determine employees supervision. Otherwise, no - there isn't.
If you have a problem with the employee, this is something to be addressed with her manager - and the manager, in turn, as this employee's boss, is the only one, IMHO who has the right to address the situation with her.
Otherwise this will create a hostile work environment that will be impossible to survive - for all the parties involved - I can see that happening already... Seems to me that now there are several involved now, and not only #1 and #2.
IMHO only this employee's boss can address her job description, he attitude, her skills, her work ethics (or lack thereof). It is no one else's place to do so... Unless there is an in-house HR department, which most places don't.

In my job, I respond to my boss, and my boss's boss when it comes to things like this - if anyone else, believe you me, I will not take it, and I am within my rights to do so, honestly.
My opinion FWIW

Carolina said:

IMHO this is not a conversation to have in between employees. And IMHO, nope, there is no seniority; unless there are clear titles that determine employees supervision. Otherwise, no - there isn't.
If you have a problem with the employee, this is something to be addressed with her manager - and the manager, in turn, as this employee's boss, is the only one, IMHO who has the right to address the situation with her.
Otherwise this will create a hostile work environment that will be impossible to survive - for all the parties involved - I can see that happening already... Seems to me that now there are several involved now, and not only #1 and #2.
IMHO only this employee's boss can address her job description, he attitude, her skills, her work ethics (or lack thereof). It is no one else's place to do so... Unless there is an in-house HR department, which most places don't.
In my job, I respond to my boss, and my boss's boss when it comes to things like this - if anyone else, believe you me, I will not take it, and I am within my rights to do so, honestly.
My opinion FWIW

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You're right, it isn't a conversation to have between two employees. I should never have to but if the employee is a brand new employee and there's absolutely no managers present, that new employee should take the more established employee's word on things. The thing is I wasn't even trying to tell her how to do her job, I was trying to complete a shift change by trying to communicate what happened during the shift and what had or hadn't been done. These types of questions are asked by everyone, to everyone. This is something that has to take place during shift change for the shifts to be changed properly.  Even though I don't really see myself as a manager, the fact is my position, Night Auditor is also called the Night Manager. That's in my job description.  Also, if I could depend on the managers answering their phones, I would call them when any situation like this starts to occur but the fact is that at this hotel, you're lucky to be able to get a hold of them during the week, impossible during the weekend, even more so when its at 11 at night. Even when they leave a note to "call me tonight when you come in" they don't even answer, so the running of the hotel during the weekend depends on the employees making sure things are taken care of, if there's an employee that's not wanting to communicate or listen to the other staff whether the employee is new or not can be disastrous for a hotel

Natalie_ca said:

I didn't pick any of the listed choices.  In my opinion it was the managers fault for putting someone so ill prepared into a shift that didn't have any other staff on to orientate her more thoroughly.

It is also my opinion that the conversation that took place between the 2 employees should not have taken place. Again, it is up to the manager to have that kind of discussion with their employees, not leave it to another employee.

Also, since I wasn't present, and can only base my views on what is typed here (not seeing body language, voice tone, inflection etc), based on what I am reading , there really was no "effective" communication going on between either employee. While both likely didn't mean to be disrespectful, rude or come across as "attacking", reading what apparently was said (and I'm assuming in essentially the same words), I can see how both would get their backs up.  There are lots of "you" words being used on both sides, and that right away points blame.

Here is a link to some effective communication techniques. http://advancedlifeskills.com/blog/14-very-effective-communication-skills/

So far as one telling the other "shut up", well, I agree that that was plain rude, no matter how it was said.

In the future the better way to approach something like this would be to start of saying something along the lines of "I see you survived your shift. It must have been difficult and frustrating to be thrown to the wolves so soon after starting this job."  That shows you care and that you empathize with her about how she must be feeling. It gets the person trusting you and they are more likely to come over to your side and be more open to hearing what you have to say.

As well, perhaps your manager can make a check list of things that need to be done on each shift and each shift has to check off and initial that the task was actually done.  This would be for all shifts, all employees, not just new ones. I know plenty of "old" employees who do the minimum or less, if they can get away with it.

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I agree with this, and sorry, but I picked "F". When I recently worked retail and they hired a new person who had a bad habit of coming in late and taking extra long breaks and lunches, I had to face the situation of trying to coach him, as our supervisor didn't know how to do it. I simply pulled him aside and told him what the consequences would be to him (firing) and to the rest of the department (everyone mad because they may miss their breaks or lunch) if he continued to do it, then told him it's up to him how if he wanted to correct himself. He got better after that, and while he still was late sometimes, he was really embarrassed by it. I was in management for many years and spent most of my coaching employees. You have to asses the person and how they would respond to different coaching tactics to pull it off. And sometimes you need to just walk away and let someone else handle it.