Need Reassurance that I'm Handling this the Right Way (a long rant about my daughter)

I've been following your threads about your daughter and have always hestitated to put in my two cents, but here goes. I honestly suspect that you'll never get an apology or any real understanding on her part of what she's put you and your husband through. Children who weren't given the opportunity to bond with a parent/caregiver very early in life often have no insight whatsoever into other people's emotions, needs, values, etc.. Romania is a very poor country, and its orphanages were notorious for a very, very long time. The kids institutionalized there simply didn't have any real "attachment figures" and became emotionally stunted. I'm not saying she's a sociopath, but that she quite possibly doesn't "tick" like your average person because of her early childhood experiences, and no amount of love and understanding can quite make up for them. It's heartbreaking for all concerned.

Would she be keeping one foot in the door, so to say, by keeping in touch with other family members if she didn't care?

Wow. I want to give you a hug!  Here are my thoughts on your situation, for what they are worth. 

 

First, you did an amazing and wonderful, life-changing and karmic thing to adopt this girl, and give her what's probably her only shot at a loving and decent life.

 

You need to allow her have access to the rest of the family, even though she's not including you and your husband. She needs family right now; no matter how damaged or messed up we are, we all need to feel connected to someone. 

 

Try stay on good terms with your family, and keep the relationship you have with them separate from your feeling towards your daughter. Please try really hard not to judge them for responding to her, but they also need to understand that you are under no obligation to discuss her with them. Don't let it turn into a her-or-us scenario, you have control over that by staying in touch with your family. If she is only out to get what she can from them, they will realize it on their own soon enough. 

 

Remember that she has her own path to follow now, and her own lessons to learn. You have done everything you can for her, now it is in your power to let her go and don't let her be a negative presence in your life. Try to make her a neutral instead. You are under no obligation to her anymore, and she has no power over you.

 

Never give up, there's always hope. You don't want to put your life on hold waiting for it, but it can still be there. 

 

Pray for her. She's going to need more help than you or any other person can give her.

 

for you and your husband.

Truthfully hun, she sounds young, immature and selfish, and one day she is going to wake up and realize all that you're done for her and what she is missing without you and your hubby in her life. Until that day, stay strong, and know you've done NOTHING wrong! I adore you and your strength sweetheart! We're here for you.

Oh Libby HUGE to you today. I DO know how you are feeling, the anger, the sadness, the conflict in your heart and mind ..... It is NOT easy by any stretch and we are constantly having to learn HOW to deal with a situation like this - like a knife in the heart I can tell you that I wouldn't want you to ever wait for an honest apology or heartfelt remorse for what your daughter has put you and Dave through. My daughter is almost 25 years old and has yet to really understand the error of her ways over the last five years and seems to just live each day like the past just didn't happen. I just don't get it either. There is no accountability If your daughter want's to stay connected to some family member's, so be it. It is not easy and it never will be easy, I fear. It is unfortunately one of life's constant battles we must face and somehow overcome in our own psyche. You cannot let her take you down to that dark place anymore. You have to draw that line and tell yourself you have done EVERYTHING for this girl - and she is the one who has chosen the wrong turn in life. You cannot punish yourself anymore emotionally over her choices. She is an adult - by age - not by mentality (I say that about my daughter) and you have to let her go and make her own way, choose her own path, make her own decisions - right or wrong, more wrong at the moment , and until she wakes up, grows up, takes accountability and responsibility, there is nothing you can do but what you are already doing. Stay strong with your decision - she must come to both you and Dave - sit down - and tell you how very sorry she is for what she has put you and Dave through. Until then, and IF when, you just have to manage your OWN feelings and Dave's, of course. And if your daughter tries to put a wedge and manipulate the situation with other family member's., they will see that and she will just be showing her immaturity in doing so. Most importantly, above all else, you and Dave have to be on the same page in regards to her. If she comes to Dave's work, I would suggest he do the same thing over and over, like he did a couple of week's ago. Treat her like just another person - unfortunately - superficial comes to mind....... I don't have all the answer's and have made some progress in dealing with my depression over my daughter. But it is a constant conflict in my mind. I am working on LETTING GO!!!!!! They are grown woman. We cannot mother them anymore - they have flown the nest - so be it - so fly away and maybe, maybe one day, she will fly back to make things right. But if she want's to hover around the other birdies in the family and you hear about it, try not to let it get your feather's TOO ruffled , I know it is very, very hard but it will make you stronger (at least that is what I tell myself )...........

Libby, when I read your post, this was my reaction. I don't know that I could have worded it nearly as well as Cat did. But you can't force your family to choose...

The real problem here is that you DO love her - but you don't respect her. Her actions and decisions hurt. They hurt because you care, and you wish she cared back. Only time will tell whether she's capable of caring or not. I don't know if it's a lesson she needs to learn - or if she faces what is essentially a mental illness. But she's an adult and responsible for her actions, and I do believe you've made it clear to her what she needs to do to repair the relationship with you and Dave. That she hasn't even said the words, whether heartfelt or not, indicates she's not ready to take even those steps.

Having seen my husband's family go through this I have one thing to say to you-------------------------Look at the time of  year.    I bet she is trying to get in good with G-ma and the others to get stuff from them during this gift giving time of year!

 

That is what my BIL does every year.  He has nothing for anyone until the holidays start coming around then it is dropping in on this one, calling that one.  All in hopes of one of them letting him come to their place.

 

Do what your husband needs/wants you to do.  NEVER let your guard down with her.  Civil is all any one should expect from you towards her.

 

There is NOTHING wrong in what you did or are feeling.  You took her in and loved her.  Now she does this to you?????  NOT FAIR!

 

Hugs to you!

 

Kim

There are so many things I'm feeling as I read your post and the prior ones for the last few months about your daughter.

 

I'm wondering if the novelty has worn off, the whole thing with her BFs family and even the novelty of being a "victim" as she sees herself (and I do hope I'm making sense) . But chances are, you'd never get her to admit that she's made a mistake.

 

But it is the holiday season and it's very possible, knowing what I know of her history from your posts, that she could be just trying to get whatever she can get from everybody. Once the holiday is over, she may start to ignore everybody again. And then your heart is freshly broken all over again. And that's not fair to you.

 

At this point? You've done what you can. You took her in, you loved her, and you did everything you could for her. There's nothing more you can do. And you know what? If you allow her and what she's doing to weigh on you? You're going to let her control you whether she knows it or not. I know she's in the back of your mind and that of your husband's, too. All the time. It's natural. Because you love her and you want what's best for her. But the only way she can treat you like a doormat is if YOU let her treat you that way.

 

Let her go. Please. It's OK if she's in your mind and that you love her. You're her mom and that love never goes away. Let her go to the other family members. Try not to get too upset about it....that's difficult. But let her go. This is what she has chosen. Let her travel that path. Keep the love for her in your heart, but I think you have to let her go.  

 

I haven't got much to add as I have young children and thankfully have never experienced anything like this but sounds to me like you are doing exactly the right thing and I too think you are being very strong.You have put up with so much from her and if she truly doesn't think that she hasn't done anything wrong then let her get on with it. xx

Libby, are you and DH getting any counseling help with this? A few sessions with someone may really help both of you become more comfortable with your decisions and emotions on this issue - especially now, this time of year.....

Libby You are a very, very special lady and I hope you know this and believe this. It does help SO much to be able to just write ( TCS TALK ) here to us. I just want you to know how much I do care about you and what you are going through. I don't have the answer's..... but I do know how you feel and I know many other people who have issues with their twenty-something daughter's. It DOES help to talk about it and vent/rant/scream/cry and laugh ..... I am here for you, honey - we are all here for you

I feel so sorry for you and I have a sister that seems to act similarly. Even though I don't know the whole story, I know she was adopted but don't know at what age,   I hope by explaining how my sister is, you won't feel so alone in dealing with your daughter.

 

My sister is two years older than me and well, for the majority of my life our relationship, well her relationship with the whole family has been a little, turbulent.  We don't know if she's slightly bipolar, or if she has a very light case of autisim or if she is just a very wired person. My parents have always thought, she didn't act quite normal, even as a new born but we lived in a small town where the doctors always said, she fine and refused to do any tests. Well,  she can being happy one moment and you can say something that has no meaning to you but it just sets her off. I mean, you can say something like mentioning the weather and she'll think that you're trying to make a crack at her love life or something like that.   She, like your daughter, can never be in the wrong about anything. Even if she overreacts, she still thinks that you're in the wrong and not her but then 5 minutes later she'll act like nothing happened and she'll ask why you're so upset.   Like you, I cry whenever I'm upset, whether its anger or sadness and my sister has always got mad at me for it, saying that I'm just trying to get sympathy or trying to get out of the argument.  She could never just talk about what she was angry about, she would yell and through stuff and no matter what you said she only got more and more angry and irate. Not even my parents could stop her arguing and yelling.    She'd get made over my parents asking her to pick up her clean clothes off the couch after 2 weeks of her just adding more clothes to the pile and she would say they were nagging her.  When Happy Feet was in theatres, I took her to see it because I thought she'd enjoy it. It was great, we laughed and talked, we enjoyed to movie and enjoyed the walk back out to my car but right when her car door shut, she went off. It was like a switch was turned on (or off) in her head and she was yelling at me. Want to know why she was so mad at me? It was because I was single. I didn't have a boyfriend and she wanted to know why I wouldn't go out with any of her guy friends that she tried to set me up with. She couldn't understand why I would want to be single.  My senior year in high school and every other day I only had 2 classes then I could leave for the day. That morning my sister had asked if I remembered, if I could move her clothes from the wash into the dryer. I told her if I remembered, I would. Well after I got off school I had stopped by McDonalds and got some food to bring home. I had sat down in the tv room and got my food set out on the tray table when my sister came home. She was furious when she found out I hadn't done her clothes yet. She dumped my drink on my head and through my fries across the room. Anyways that gives you a picture how her temper is. That being said, she is one of the most generous people out there. She would break her back if it would mean someone's birthday went off with out a hitch and we have always and will always have each others back. Even if our relationship did end up with us not talking, if I heard she needed me, I'd be there in a heart beat. 

Anyways, it got to the point where I stopped going shopping or going to the movies with her because it would always end up with her yelling at me. I found my self literally afraid of talking to her or spending anymore time with her because I didn't want to get in another fight. I didn't want to end up hating my own sister so for me it was easier to not do anything with her. During fights, she would accuse me being a horrible sister and because I didn't even want to hang out with my own sister. I would try to tell her how much I hated not hanging out with her but I was so afraid of fighting, how I didn't want to risk ending up hating her because we always ended up fighting each time we hung out. How much she made me hate myself for things I didn't even do. How after I lock myself in my room and while she's pounding on the floor, I would literally be curled up in a ball trying to figure out what I had done to make her so angry. I would loose myself in my greif and I would actually as bad as it sounds, loose my logic and my sanity totally. I would dig my nails into my head and end up drawing blood, I would be in hysterics and nothing could bring me down, finally I would just cry myself into exhaution. Honestly, I had been a weaker person, I would have killed myself because how horrible and guilty she made me feel. Real quick I want to say that not all of our fights were because of her. We're sisters and lets face it ladies, we tend to like to poke each other's buttons when we're upset but despite the buttom pushing, she still overreacted to even a button pushed in a light heated fashion. .

 

Our fights pretty much never ended until I moved out and I think its safe to say our relationship is slowly on the mend now that we have our own space.  She's not officially living on her own but she's housesitting for an old friend's dad but even now she still says that it was my parents who made her take the job because they always nagged her and they wouldn't pick up things so she hasn't gotten much better.  My sister has gotten much better as she has gotten older, and she has slowly, very slowly begun to understand that she does/can overreact sometimes and she has actually begun to apologise to my parents when she realizes she got out of line or overreacted to something. Her temper is stil very volitle and we still have to watch what we say around her but she's finally starting to grow up emotionally.

 

So keep your chin up, don't give up hope and just make sure you let her know some how that even though she seems to be wanting her space right now, that you'll always love her and you'll always be there and leave it at that. If you don't think you could say it to her face, call her or even write a handwritten letter. You may not think she'd read it, but I'd bet she will even if she tries to deny it later. She'll come around eventually, my grandpa and his brother didn't speak for over 40 years before they realized that they loved and missed each other too much to never talk to each other again.  Please don't let your anger and greif take over and cause you to loose any chance of mending your relationship when the time comes. Until she comes around just contiue with your life, you could discretely make her realize how much she misses you guys by adding pictures of when she was little to her in cards during her birthday and holidays and just add something like, "I was going through some old things and I found this picture, I can't beleive you were ever so little!" or something like that. Usually when someone starts thinking back on the good things, the bad start to seem smaller.   I really hope this helped you feel a little better. I really hope everything works out for you and your family!  I'm sending my best wishes to you!

 

Libby,
I feel so sad to hear you both are still going through this.... There is nothing that breaks my heart more than to read these posts
It sort of hits close to home, in a smaller way I guess.... Anyways, here is the way I see it - it is different from the majority of the responses you get here, but it is my opinion for what is worth - I am going to quote your post -
It appears to me that she knows she is part of the family, and her family is opening the doors for her. Libby, this is a good thing.... Since this little girl became your daughter, she also became a niece, a granddaughter, a cousin.... That won't change... She still has a family, she is still loved and that's how it should be. What happened in between her and you, should be, IMHO, in between you two, or you her and Dave.... but please Libby, don't make this a "either her or me" - she needs a family, and so do you.... Love is a good thing for her.... Depriving her of it will do no good
Ok, I bolded your post here so you can see what might be going on.... Have you considered that your family might be giving her a space to approach them that you are not giving? While they are saying "you are welcomed here" you and Dave are saying "you are not welcomed here, I will never forgive you, I don't want to have anything to do with you?". I know you might not be putting this into words, telling her this, but are you giving her the space to approach you? Think about it.... I do understand why she approached them.... Because she feels welcomed.... She doesn't feel threatened.... Understand, I am not faulting anyone here, but I just want you to try to put yourself on her estate of mind a little so maybe you can understand why she has approached them and not you....
This relates to my comment above.... and also.... I can't count on my hands how many times I broke my mom and dads hearts when I was younger.... and vice versa. My dad is a very hard person to deal with, and just recently, because of a meaningless argument, he blasted "I am not your father anymore". This was just before I went to Brazil in September. Now, keep in mind, the last time he did this, was in 1996, and made me leave the country to never go back. This time, I went to Brazil, and was there for 2 weeks. I only spoke to my dad a few days before I came back - he is not doing well, and I was literally afraid of losing him. He did not say he was sorry, and we did not talk much about it. What I can tell you is, both times it happened, we worked out -because I know, in my heart, there is no one in this world who loves me more than my mom and my dad. Both times it happened, we both died inside, everyday. It was torture. Words like "you are dead for me" "you are not my daughter anymore".... they are spoken written.... but they eat you inside on both sides.... On yours and hers.... And the truth is, everyday that goes by, is a day lost with a person who you should really be saying "I love you more than anything in this World". Because Libby, truth is, that is what you feel.... There is no theory here of keeping the guards up.... She is your daughter, and you love her more then anything in this World.... Did she hurt you? Yes. Did she hurt Dave? Yes. But she is still your daughter, and nothing will ever change that.... Nothing will get rid of the pain that's eating you alive until you both get through this.... It is hard - believe you me - I KNOW. But it can happen, and I truly, from the bottom of my heart, hope it happens for the both of you
Libby, it's not because people don't say, that they don't feel.... Trust me, she suffers.... She feels.... She hurts the same way you do.... You might never hear I am sorry.... You might not hear these specific words.... but you might have the apology through her actions.... I think there is so much love to be shared and enjoyed in between the three of you.... I do think she has had the time "to learn her lesson".... If there is such a thing.... Most importantly, I think this is the most valuable relationship she has in life... and trust me, she knows it. I truly believe that given the chance, with time and patience, everything can be just fine.... It seems that she is calling out for family, love is not a bad thing to give.... I don't think it ever hurts.... Love and family are always good, healing, nurturing things.....
Wishing you all the best Libby

Libby, I still believe she does... Here is the thing.... People who goes through those experiences early in life are "trained" if you will, to block/not show emotions, as a survival mechanism. It is known that you "shape" a child personality on the first 5 years of life.... and her 5 first years were spent pretty much being defensive - trying to not get attached - trying to not love, to not show love, to not show emotions, to not cry, to not be a regular child..... just to survive. Yes, she is not a regular person. But yes, she has all those feelings.... She does.... What she doesn't know how to, is to externalize them. She doesn't know how to feel them, to show them. They are dangerous to her. She has a huge wall where she was conditioned to not cross.... and that is a massive wall. I have a very close person to me who suffered this, and has a very hard time with it as well.... She is today 67, and still hasn't gotten over internalizing her feelings. I can see the suffering inside, but she still doesn't know how. I imagine that at 22 she really really didn't have a clue of what to do with her feelings.
This is not uncommon with teenagers..... not at all..... Does it make it right? nope. But man, it is so common. Here is the thing - a boy comes, and all of the sudden, she can externalize those feelings inside of her with him and his family. Why? Because it is a lighter relationship. Then it becomes a relationship that allows her to express herself in ways that she can't otherwise.... She can voice her feelings - why? They don't know her. She can be herself and it is not too hard for her. It is much easier for her to say "I love you" to this boy, then to say "I love you for you guys, who are her parents..... This relationship is new, fresh and has no luggage. If this guy doesn't correspond to her feelings, it's not going to hurt as much as if her parents don't.... Remember her conditioning early in life..... She is petrified of loving parents, then having her heart broken by them.... This boy/family, doesn't threaten her like that.... For her, who has all these deep, locked feelings inside, these relationships become all the more intense. It is all new, she can just be herself, without any expectations of her.... and without the fear of completely crushing her heart to pieces. And then the relationship gets deep.
It becomes a problem (BIG) problem, when the family gets against that relationship..... Because if she is really connected to him in these ways here.... The roots are deep, and all of the sudden she is fulfilling a need -a real need - and the family is threatening to take it away. Naturally, she will rebel.
Think about it Libby - This girl, like any of us, need to feel, need to cry, need hugs, need love..... You think she doesn't feel, but she does..... This boy gives this to her. You the parents might think that this boy is bad for her (and might be right, I don't know this boy); but he is giving her something vital - something good, something she gets nowhere else.....
I know she gets love at home...... But she doesn't know how. One of the reasons is probably because she built this HUGE wall against parents in the orphanage - for 4 1/2 years, she was taught to have no expectations. She was taught that parents would not love her. She was taught that parents left their children behind. She saw kids going to foster and coming back. She saw the heart breaking over and over again that PARENTS inflicted on their children. This kid is conditioned to block emotions from parents....
What you see as being selfish, unkind, and not having feelings..... I see as totally different..... I see as a defense mechanism. I see a very conflicted girl... Who DOES feel. Who DOES suffer.... Who must be so confused and feel guilty at times for being different as why she doesn't react the same way as everyone else..... I see a girl who was conditioned to not externalize her feelings - to block her emotions..... simply to survive with the least amount of suffering as possible. I see a girl who can love and feel - the proof for me is that she can love and have feelings for her boyfriend, and have a relationship with her extended family..... But unfortunately still doesn't know how to break through the biggest love of all, a parents love

Libby, I hope one day you can see these things.... I think your girl needs help.... Therapy..... Maybe you three should look into family counseling..... But she has deep issues to deal with.....

I've been giving your situation a great deal of thought.

 

Your daughter sounds truely broken.  Attachment disorders are a life long thing and there is no fixing that.

It seems to me that you have 2 choices to make now:

 

1.  Accept her for the way she is, flaws and all.

 

This means that you cannot expect to (or pretend to not expect to) get apologies or acknowledgement of any kind that she is hurting you (or has hurt you) with her behaviour.  You have to truly believe that she is giving you all that she has to give you, nothing more, or nothing less. And you need to look at it with gratitude instead of hurt and anger.

 

2. Cut her out of your life entirely.  Basically divorce her and have nothing to do with her ever again.

 

But remember, just because you divorce her, doesn't mean the rest of your friends and family will do the same.   So you will likely still hear about her, and run into her at family gatherings, unless you choose to isolate yourself from your entire family to avoid her. 

 

We all have our own tolerances. Your friends and family seem to be able to look beyond her broken-ness and accept her with her flaws and take whatever morssel of affection she gives them, while you feel you cannot.  But you cannot expect them to choose between you or her, because you may not like their choice (her over you).

 

If you decide to cut her completely out of your life, make sure you are doing it for the right reason: That you cannot bear the hurt that you feel by her lack of attachment / feeling towards you.  You cannot do it as a punishment with the hopes that she will one day come to her senses and come running back to you with her tail between her legs apologizing for her behaviour towards you. It seems that she isn't capable of that, and is giving all that she has to give already, and has nothing more to offer you. 

 

A co-worker has as daughter with an attachment disorder. She had a very bad childhood with a junkie mother and didn't get any love or affection or bonding. My friend adopted her when she was 13 or so.  I see how the girl  uses and abuses her Mom and Dad. Take, take, take. And gives very little in return.  But my friend has accepted that, unconditionally, and has learned to never expect anything more from her.  Every once in a while her daughter will give her a hug and say "I love you", and she does mean it, at the time.

 

I have an attachment disorder of sorts.  I did bond with my Mom and Dad and I am capable of giving love and accepting it.  However, I've been hurt so deeply by the death of my Mom and Dad that I never want to feel that type of pain again, so I tend to keep most people at arms length. It's also one of the main reasons I chose never to have kids. I just couldn't bear putting my children through that type of pain.  

 

Over the years I've let the wall down, but I always end up getting hurt and the pain is just too great for me.  So I tend to push people away when they get too close in anticipation of them leaving. I see myself doing it, but I am powerless to stop it. The fear of that type of pain is just too great.  I even do this with my cats.  I find that as my cats get older, that my love for them changes. I start separating myself years in advance in preparation of them leaving, so that when they do leave, I am hurt, but not to the degree I would have been had I clung to them with all my might right up until the end.

 

I do not envy your choices.  *hugs*

Libby, one last thought..... and this one will be a hard pill to swallow.... but....
Given her age and her history, she just might be pushing the limits, unconsciously, as a self defeating mechanism. She is trying to push you away, that way she is right - all parents, just like when she was little, abandon and hurt. This is not something she does consciously, of course.

Now, here is the thing.... and the hard pill to "swallow" - it can be sweet too, if you think about it:
You and Dave might hold in your hands the opportunity to prove her wrong and to break this cycle.... By sticking by her no matter what, and never abandoning her, she will realize she has gotten parents who don't abandon. Who she can count on, through thick and thin. She will push, and she will push hard. But I have it to me that this won't last long - a lot of this has to do with the age, and with her having the confidence that you will stick around.

On the other hand, if she pushes you and you go..... unfortunately, her fears will come true.... And her "truth" from when she was little, will prevail. And more unfortunately yet, the cycle might continue throughout her future relationships - with her own kids - as one thing I learned, is history repeats itself, when it comes to things like this.

I KNOW this will be hard for you.... VERY hard..... But IMHO you have a choice - you and Dave can make a choice..... She can't - this is really stronger than her. You can break this cycle - she can only with your help....

I understand everyone has their limitations, I do.... But I have no doubt you do love this girl and you want this to end....
IMHO you are the only parents she knows, and the only ones who can make a difference - it is going to be hard..... But I don't think any harder then right now. And it can make a real positive change - for all of you....

Ok....... I think I said all I had to say now - All the best to you Libby Hope things get better for the three of you, I really do.....

Libby, this post really hit home for me. I've known from the first time you chatted about your issues with your daughter that she was adopted from another country. I'm not sure I knew how old she was - if I did, it didn't "register."

Gary and I adopted a damaged teen. Obviously this led us to completely different expectations than you had adopting a little girl that grew up with you and Dave as her parents. But Naomi suffered from Reactive Attachment Disorder (among many other things), and Gary & I were in counseling, and we were in family counseling, and Naomi was in counseling. You had what you experienced as a close and loving relationship with your daughter until she became a teen - that troubled age for any child and parent-child relationship.

I know I've been one advocating that you put your foot down. But Tricia's post, Carolina's post, and Linda's post made something in my slow brain "click," and I have FINALLY realized that what you are dealing with is NOT an "exaggerated" problem of a normal "troubled" young adult. And that's the basis of the advice most people are giving. You are dealing with an emotionally damaged child, not capable of having normal relationships, through no fault of her upbringing. That damage was done before you adopted her.

Now - whether or not you have the emotional strength to deal with the problems your daughter presents is a different issue.

Did the family ever go for counseling? Was she ever diagnosed with Reactive Attachment Disorder? It seems from your descriptions that there would have been no reason to seek counseling, and so no opportunity for this type of diagnosis to be made... but I'm 99% sure that's what you're dealing with. And in that case, Carolina's right. Pushing her away until she takes the first step will result in you having no daughter. And that may be the way you want it if you can't have a more normal relationship with her. But I doubt very much she's capable, without help, of that "more normal" relationship you seek. And even then, her relationship with you will never be normal. But it may be something that isn't always painful to you, though with RAD, there will ALWAYS be a lot of hurt.

At the very least, I would seek counseling WITH Dave, with a counselor that knows how to work with people with RAD, so you can deal with your anger, and figure out how you want to proceed (or if you want to proceed) in managing your relationship with your daughter.

Libby - I just want to give you a HUGE and ton of them. I have to agree with Laurie about the RAD. I did not know you daughter was raised in an orphanage as a baby. AWWWW bless you, Libby. My heart is totally breaking for her AND for you. This is going to be very difficult process and there are so many "other issues" that I am sure have happened that none of us know about. I know you know that we cannot give you all the answers or guide you perfectly, because you stated that in an earlier post, but we are here for you and want to help, be there for you, support you in anyway possible. I really do think counseling would be the next step for me if I were in your shoes. Actually, Larry and I have gone to a few sessions to discuss the HOW on dealing with our adult daughter. And it has really helped keep Larry and I both on the same page. That is SO important that you and Dave proceed TOGETHER and make decisions together about how to go from here. I agree with Laurie too in that you have to decide if you even want to pursue this avenue, if you are emotionally strong enough to handle anymore. It is alright..... Sometimes, love is just not enough to make us put ourselves through more and more pain than we have already endured.

I just am so, so sorry for what you are dealing with in your life with your daughter. I fear, though, that she will not be able to change and come to you first. She just does not have the emotional "tools" to understand her wrong-doing's. As Carolina said, I do believe she has serious abandonment issues, unconsciously so. And she is unknowingly sabotaging ALL relationships in her life to save herself from ultimately being hurt down the road...(abandoned) by you, Dave, girlfriend's, and yes, even those boys.. (in her mind - unconsciously - this is how she is protecting herself) This pattern might NEVER change with her no matter what you do or no matter how you handle this problem. I think your daughter came to you with these deep, deep emotional scars as a child and no matter how much love and care you gave her growing up, those buried emotions are bound to come to the surface. I don't even think your daughter knows she has these serious emotional scars. You are a wonderful mother and are doing the best you know how to deal with your daughter. I am sure this has just torn you up inside and out . If you do get some professional counseling, then at least you can feel good about the next decision and step you want to pursue and that you have exhausted every possibility. A professional will be able to help you and Dave get a better understanding about your feelings and how to go from here. AWWWWWW Libby - I care very much for you and am so sad you are hurting so badly. Wish there was more I could do.
Edited by Feralvr - 11/27/11 at 7:46pm

Libby, everything you just described is uninhibted RAD. To a "T".

Libby, I know I sound like a broken record, but I really think the next best step is that you and Dave start learning about RAD, and that you seek counseling together to figure out how you want to move forward in your relationship with your daughter - or if you want one.

Libby.... I had never heard of RAD before... Not of the terminology anyways (not raised here).
Anyways - I found this site, I am sure you can find many many more - what is interesting is that this is easy to read.... This boy was a pre-teen when he went to live with his uncle and aunt......... and that's when he was diagnosed with RAD, started therapy, etc.
This is written by that uncle.... It does totally fit your girl....
I do think Laurie is right... and that the therapist needs to be experienced in RAD - not just a family counselor....
Here you go - straight to the FAQ:
http://www.radkid.org/faq.html

The response of you and your DH is what changed. She got to that difficult "separation" age (teenager), and she couldn't understand - because she's not emotionally equipped to - what the problem was. Hearing it in words doesn't mean she "gets" it. And ultimately, thinking this was a "normal" (though extreme case) of "ungrateful, hurtful" daughter kind of situation, you forced her to make choices. To you, you see "unattachment." She sees rejection.

With uninhibited RAD, the problem isn't that you don't form attachments or that you don't like other people, that you don't get along with other people - it's that you're too friendly, too fast. Inhibited RAD is much easier to "spot," because it tends to come with more obvious problems given the lack of trust. But children with uninhibited RAD may seem quite normal, just friendlier to strangers - they're much more about trying to please as a means of manipulation. They tend to be sexually promiscuous, for instance. They say "I love you," but don't know what it means. Not necessarily because they haven't known love in their lives, but because they're missing that developmental ATTACHMENT with a care giver between the age of birth and 3 years old necessary to form "normal" human relationships later in life.

This isn't about how you raised her. It's about what happened to her before you adopted her. But at this point I truly believe she does not emotionally understand what she's done wrong.

I do hope that now that you know there's most likely a MUCH deeper issue at stake than "her behavior," I hope you and Dave can do some learning, get some counseling, and make decisions based on information you didn't have before.