Tooth Care

absolutely raw meaty bones. My cats are less than a year old, so I can't share any direct experience on cat teeth but my dogs have been raw fed for nearly 5 years now and even the vet asked me how I keep their teeth so clean, just raw meaty bones I don't brush them ever and they have never had dental cleanings. My cats are still fed about 2/3 raw and 1/3 canned but a separate meals. I still have some weruva to finish up. 

Mine get raw for breakfast, a can in the afternoon and raw in the evening. Try posting on the raw forum here, because their are people with more experience raw feeding cats than me. My cats basically started stealing the dogs raw food while it was being prepared which was how I got them started. They demanded it. 

I use CET pet toothpaste (poultry), but no toothbrush. I put a dab of toothpaste on my index finger, then open the gums with my other hand and dab the toothpaste on the outsides of the teeth. Pet toothpaste uses enzymes that stick to the teeth and break down bacteria, so you don't have to physically brush the teeth so much as deposit some toothpaste on them. My cats actually love having their teeth brushed and will line up when I unscrew the toothpaste cap, and my older cat was 2 years old when I first tried. The good thing is you don't have to worry about the inside tooth surface (next to the tongue), since cats have rough tongues that are constantly brushing that side of their teeth for you.

There's definitely no one single right answer, but there are a lot of options that can be used together or in combination.

We feed one dry meal a day along w/ a few greenies after wet meals, and while the vet remarked they had great teeth and gums, you would expect that from cats that are under two years old so unfortunately I can't really say that the proof is in the pudding for these two... yet!    There are studies that show dental diseases were "significantly more absent" in cats and dogs that were fed at least some dry food, such as in one of the largest scientific pet nutrition studies to date (38,776 cats and dogs in the study).    The Greenies work purely by mechanical action, being large and abrasive, but specifically formulated dental kibbles are typically coated with calcium-chelator as described in this article: kibbles can beuseful in the prevention of feline periodontaldisease.   Using tap water or only minor filtration such as that from a refrigerator will also ensure that they are receiving a small amount of fluoride (although on a tangent, I actually don't like that its in our water since humans get TONS of fluoride in our toothpaste already, and ingesting too much isn't good either).    There are also drinking water additives you can use, although I'd always be concerned it might slightly affect the flavor or smell of the water and discourage drinking.    The nice thing though is that these are all passive tools in your arsenal that don't bother or stress your kitty (heck, the greenies they love).  

Haven't had a need to do any manual brushing yet, but there are great tips here:

http://pets.webmd.com/cats/cat-dental-care  

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Originally Posted by Lokilove 

Thanks for all the ideas! I have been using greenies but both cats are very against me touching their mouths so I don't know if they are helping. I tried the CET paste without a brush...I don't think I managed to get any on. Might need to try a different flavour the only one we had in town was seafood...yuck! Neither cat wanted to taste it.

 

Here's a great video put out by Cornell University that shows one way to *try* getting cats used to having their teeth brushed: http://partnersah.vet.cornell.edu/pet/fhc/brushing_teeth

There are also some enzymatic dental treats like these C.E.T. chews by Virbac or Enzadents by Vetoquinol. 

My cats get raw chicken necks and gizzards regularly, plus the 2 younguns love their Petstages chew toys. 

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Originally Posted by Ducman69 

There are studies that show dental diseases were "significantly more absent" in cats and dogs that were fed at least some dry food, such as in one of the largest scientific pet nutrition studies to date (38,776 cats and dogs in the study).    

 

A study funded by Iams, so I'd take it with a giant grain of salt. 

 

 

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Originally Posted by Ducman69 

specifically formulated dental kibbles are typically coated with calcium-chelator as described in this article: kibbles can beuseful in the prevention of feline periodontaldisease.   

I have no doubt that the prescription dental diets do what they're supposed to, but at what cost to the rest of the cat's health? The ingredients are horrific. There are better ways to achieve good oral hygiene IMO. 

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Originally Posted by Ducman69 

There are also drinking water additives you can use, although I'd always be concerned it might slightly affect the flavor or smell of the water and discourage drinking.  

 

Not only that but they all contain sodium benzoate as a preservative, which is toxic to cats over the long-term. 

This study is not alone in the results, it is impossible for Iams to bribe that many participating veterinary professionals considering the scale of the study, independent researchers would have to be bribed, it is independently reviewed for authenticity as well, there would be serious legal ramifications for falsifying the data, and common sense tells us that Iams has no reason to caution people against their highly profitable wet food recipes.   I am sure Iams would be overjoyed if all their customers purchased more of their canned food.    It is also of note that this is -real- research, unlike raw advocates that cite benefits without any such extensive testing to verify any of the claims made. 

I don't plan to use any regardless, but do you have any studies regarding the effects of that preservative on cats?  I know its safe for humans in "normal" quantities, at least per the FDA, as its quite common in human food.

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Originally Posted by Ducman69 

 

This study is not alone in the results, it is impossible for Iams to bribe that many participating veterinary professionals considering the scale of the study, 

 

Nobody has to bribe anybody. It's all about the interpretation of the results, and Iams would certainly be in the position to ensure the interpretation fit their modus operandi. There is a book that you really should read called Not Fit For A Dog: The Truth About Manufactured Dog and Cat Food. Your conviction that scientific "studies" have all the answers is a little naive. Results can always be skewed to fit the agenda, dontchya know?

 

I wonder who funded all the other pet food "dental" studies that you speak of? 

 

 

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Originally Posted by Ducman69 

I am sure Iams would be overjoyed if all their customers purchased more of their canned food.   

They'd be much happier if everyone fed dry food only, as that's where the biggest profit margins are in the pet food industry. 

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Originally Posted by Ducman69 

It is also of note that this is -real- research, unlike raw advocates that cite benefits without any such extensive testing to verify any of the claims made. 

 

Right, *real* research. Ahem. 

As for advocating a raw diet, one only need to look at the millions of years of feline evolution to see what they should be eating. And it ain't dry starchy nuggets. It's pure hubris to think that "science" can do a better job than Mother Nature. Need I remind you of the many cat illnesses and deaths due to taurine deficient commercial cat food pre-1985, when it was accidentally discovered that cats actually need this essential amino acid? How about the surge in feline diabetes due to excessive carb intake, again from supposedly "complete-and-balanced-for-everyday-feeding" cat food? What else is "science" getting wrong? You seriously trust the multi-billion dollar pet food industry to have your cat's health at the top of their agenda? Why should they, when they can then sell you a prescription food to supposedly "fix" the health problem that they created in the first place. 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ducman69 

 

I don't plan to use any regardless, but do you have any studies regarding the effects of that preservative on cats?  I know its safe for humans in "normal" quantities, at least per the FDA, as its quite common in human food.

Cats are not humans (something a frightening number of companies seem to forget). They lack certain metabolic pathways essential for breaking down benzoic acid and related salts and are thus way more sensitive to it. Not only are lower doses more toxic, but it has a cumulative effect.

http://www.nap.edu/openbook.php?record_id=910&page=34

http://yakims.com/files/admin/veterinary/5_2_89_37615.pdf

http://www.answers.com/topic/benzoic-acid

Anyway, all I have to do is look in my cats mouths to know that kibble is not the appropriate diet:

We will have to agree to disagree that all the studies performed are falsified and that the lack of existence of real studies is superior to extensive detailed studies involving thousands of animals and independent review. 

Humans are living longer and healthier lives today than ever before, thanks to advances in "science".   Life expectancy in classical Greece and Rome was a mere 28 years, and I can assure you at age 30 I would not have all of my original teeth, well aligned, cavity free, in a brilliant white were it not for "science" developing braces, powered toothbrushes, fluoride toothpaste, floss, mouth wash, whitening, and other such "unnatural" products full of unfamiliar chemicals.   Likewise, it is not unheard of for cats today to live in excess of twenty years, something that is not seen in nature, and thus also cannot be used to confirm the efficacy of this "natural" diet on toothcare since it is rare for the animals to live very long nor is there anyone closely monitoring the dental health of wild animals.   Regarding taurine deficiency, that is actually a concern with non-regulated raw diets (plenty of threads on that, including cat illnesses and deaths), but is not in commercial diets thanks to modern understanding and regulation in AAFCO nutrient profiles.  

That said, as prefaced earlier, I do not believe there is "the one" regimen that all need to subscribe to for feline dental care, but rather a myriad of options that are available.   By all means, if one doesn't trust modern science, then alternatives are available. 

Is this a personal assumption, or based on publicly available information?   According to the Center for Food and Agri Business, canned food carries higher profit margins than bagged dry food: http://www.ats.agr.gc.ca/ase/4342-eng.htm

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Originally Posted by Ducman69 

We will have to agree to disagree that all the studies performed are falsified and that the lack of existence of real studies is superior to extensive detailed studies involving thousands of animals and independent review. 

You are living in a dream world if you think those "studies" are subject to "independent review". But you're right about one thing, we'll just agree to disagree.

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Originally Posted by Ducman69 

 

Humans are living longer and healthier lives today than ever before, thanks to advances in "science".  

 

Advances in medical diagnostics and treatment, yes. And your point is......?

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Originally Posted by Ducman69 
 

Likewise, it is not unheard of for cats today to live in excess of twenty years, something that is not seen in nature, 

 

I do believe we've been over this before, but allow me to reiterate: the longevity of indoor cats has nothing to do with their diet and everything to do with advances in medical treatment/diagnostics, and the minimization of death via cars/predators/infectious diseases common to outdoor cats.  Dr. Elizabeth Hodgkins explained it much more eloquently than I though, during the Senate hearings that followed the Big Pet Food Recall of 2007: http://landofpuregold.com/petfood-hodgkins.htm (you really should read the whole article)

 

 

 

 

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A Consumer's Guide to Pet Food: Valuable Information for Pet Owners - Veterinarians agree that pets are living longer, healthier lives since the use of commercially prepared pet foods became widespread. Decades of research have gone into the development of pet food to make sure the special nutrition needs of pet dogs and cats are met.

 

Veterinarians DO NOT agree about this, they can’t, it is totally unproven. Evidence about changes in the life span of pets over the past several decades is sparse, and no scientist would dare draw the conclusion that pets today live longer on average than pets 30-40 years ago because of commercial pet foods, for example. What does seem clear is that today’s indoor pets live much longer than those that live outdoors. The evidence for this conclusion is strong.

 

Those who would give commercial pet food even partial credit for this increase in life expectancy in the indoor pet, however, have absolutely no evidence to back up this conclusion. There are many factors that affect the life span of pet animals under indoor and outdoor circumstances. Indoor pets are more protected from death due to automobiles and predators, they are more protected from exposure to infectious disease and often receive more medial care than outdoor pets, to name just a few of the important differences between these two groups. It is easy to sweep commercial food consumption right along with all of these other factors as contributing to longer life in today’s pets. Unfortunately for this particular factor, there is no reason to believe it has anything to do with the longer life of house pets.

 

Let’s look at an analogy to understand how this might be so. Humans in the US enjoy longer life expectancy today than they did fifty years ago. During those decades of improving average life span, those same people have consumed ever-increasing amounts of fat-laden, sugary, carbohydrate-rich “fast” food and other types of over-processed “convenience” foods. We are far more obese today than in decades past, and human nutritionists nag us endlessly about changing our diets to include better quality, fresh whole foods. Imagine anyone believing that this increasing consumption of highly processed “fast” foods and increasing obesity is the reason, or even makes a positive contribution to our increasing life spans! We are living longer in spite of our diets, not because of them. Many other factors, such as less tobacco smoking, the use of seatbelts, better prenatal and postnatal care, and astonishing high- tech medical advancements for defeating disease and injury account for our increasing life spans. Our convenience-oriented diets are actually working against longer life, but cannot defeat all of these other strong protective factors in our lives.

 

 

 

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ducman69 

 

Regarding taurine deficiency, that is actually a concern with non-regulated raw diets (plenty of threads on that, including cat illnesses and deaths), but is not in commercial diets thanks to modern understanding and regulation in AAFCO nutrient profiles.  

 

You totally missed my point. That being: that despite all the so-called research and studies that you keep trying to wave around as the end-all-be-all of commercial pet food nutrition, the fact that cats depend on exogenous sources of taurine was completely overlooked. IT WAS DISCOVERED BY ACCIDENT! And that's just one of many examples where pet cats have been harmed and killed when their owners put blind trust into what is basically an unregulated industry. 

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Most dry foods have a higher amount of grain agriculture waste products (cheap) than most canned foods do. 

I had the same problem. When Festus was a kitten he had bad breath and the vets were not concern about it. When I took him in last August for his first annual checkup/shots the vets told me he had gingivitis. I could have cried, he’s only a 1 ½ years old. I fed him dry, wet and Feline Greenies treats. Now I put PlaqueOff in his wet food every day. I’m hoping for good news with his next checkup. He no longer has bad breath which is a plus.

PlaqueOff

http://www.amazon.com/Proden-Plaqueoff-Animal/dp/B000U8HN5W/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1323012081&sr=8-2