Gracie needs vibes..... - Page 3  

**if** it is what it really looks like to be, then it is reversible. This medication can attack the liver in two ways: 1- It causes anorexia, kitty stops eating, causing hepatic lipidosis. A second, more serious way that is attacks the liver, is by causing severe liver failure. We are hoping the first one is the case, since she did become anorexic, and stopped eating. Also, he charts show that she did have elevated #s before, and they dropped down - so we are hoping that with food they do get back to normal. If it is liver failure, I am not sure.... We will cross that bridge later. Vet thinks it is HL.
In a small percentage of cats, this medicine also attacks the bone marrow - this will induce the immunity you would see in cats with FeLV, FIP, Cancer, and opens the doors for auto-immune diseases. It happens in a very small percentage of cats - that's what happened to her....

That's why when the vet saw the #s on her chart and the liver problem, the first thought was cancer, liver cancer, and ask for a biopsy of the liver. But then when we started to see her past charts, things started to make much more sense for this to be a side effect. Researching the medicine..... all checks.

Yes, once she is off the meds, Methimazole is no longer attacking the bone marrow, and her immunity should go back to normal.

You are right, the medicine was making her ill.... It did control her thyroid for a long time..... but for a sour price.
It is sad that there are no other options - The other drug, I think it's called Carbimazole (sorry if not the correct name, but it is close to that), has the same side effects on the bone marrow, so the vet and I made the decision to not put Gracie on it.

My vet doesn't have any cats on Hills, nor does she know of any who has been on it. We both understand there are no long term studies on that diet.... and I am ok with that. Gracie is not ok even short term on drugs, so for us, that's a heaven sent solution.

I will start looking at Radioactive Iodine treatment for her, which is a permanent solution for her thyroid, to have on the back of my sleeve if things don't work out on this diet. For now, one day at a time, with what I can deal with.... We can only hope for the best and do all we can for our little girl

As far as the mood goes, being sick definitely has an effect on the mood, especially with thyroid - per my vet, dis-regulated thyroid causes a huge amount of stress on the kitty, so there is definitely a possibility of her becoming calmer once her numbers are stable again
Graice is still his favorite TV He is not so much in love with her anymore, but Lucky is much more friendlier now, which is kind of funny..... I think one day all will come together

***Edit - I just had a chat with Hills - I was told there were, in fact long term studies - Hills studied the food for 10 years before bringing to market. The cats live at Hills Clinics - they are born there, raised at the facility, taken care of in there, and these cats are the ones who go through the Hills clinical trials. These clinical trials were not performed short term - the cats used on y/d were tested long term. Vets can request the results of the trials by calling Hills. Results should be online now, but there is currently a glitch on the site, and it's being corrected.... they said will be put back on. Pet parents can request these results from their vets too.
Just wanted to post my findings from my chat with them...

Another note - on this diet - Kitty can not eat Red die #3, E-127, Fish, Shell Fish, Soy products, Sea Weed, Yolk, Chicken, Turkey.... They are all high in Iodine. No artificial Coloring of any kind. Red Die #3 and E-127 are often found in brown foods (Lol what cat food is not brown )
Edited by Carolina - 11/22/11 at 10:57am

Gracie took a step back on her appetite
I started to taper her off appetite stimulants on the 22nd-24th, and yesterday/last night she ate very little, so today I resumed with syringe feeding... She is also back on stimulants. I will do another round - 7 days 2x a day, then taper off with 7 days once a day.
This will ensure that she will eat on her own while I am out of town the week of the 4th. Gracie is not easy to syringe feed- it takes her being really comfortable with the person who is doing, and in turn, the person needs to be very confident too. She can't be handled like a regular cat - imagine a little feral cat - that's her during force feeding. I literally need to scruff her, lift her off the floor (by the scruff - she does not accept touching any other way), put her in the bag, hold her down, and zip her up. She will hiss and growl during the feeding.
She is getting better and better every time - tonight she only growled once..... She will not run from the bag, nor hide, and she will stay right there afterwards giving me lovings, and licking my hands right after the feedings - she doesn't get traumatized - she just doesn't like to be held - period. It's interesting though, I think as I said before, that she does understand it's for her own good
But anyways..... I fed her 3 meals of 2 oz each today, for a total of 6 oz. She did eat a little of dry, but very little. Considering that she ate a can of wet, I won't expect her to eat much dry tonight, but hopefully she will eat some. She already went for a snack 2x since her last feeding - funny - immediately after I fed her last meal and about 10 minutes later.... Girl is weird!
She is also having a MAJOR problem with hairballs - I used to control her hairballs with treats, but since she started this diet she can't eat treats, so she's been coughing like crazy for the last 2 days. That might be the problem with her appetite....
I gave her a dose of vaseline today, and will give daily doses for a few days until she gets better then every other day, I think. That's one thing that sucks about this diet -she will need vaseline instead of treats, and that's a bit more complicated, as it requires bagging as I give it with a syringe. (she can not have any pastes, any remedies, anything with dies, flavors, chicken turkey, etc.)
Today also marks the day she is 100% on the diet. A week from now she goes off meds. She has been on 1/2 dosage for a week. Going off meds should help her appetite as well.... She will have a blood test three weeks from now - in theory her thyroid should be good at that point. The one thing that could compromise a little bit, is the 4 treats a day she has - for her thyroid medicine, and for her appetite stimulants. I think it's very little to make a difference, but we will see.
The she will have another test a month from that date - that one she will be all clear and the thyroid will have to be on the normal range.
Hopefully, by then, all the liver and bone marrow numbers will be normal as well - those are my biggest worries, especially the liver
Anyways, sorry about the long post...... if you can spare a vibe or two for my little girl..... we both appreciate it

Thanks Tricia
Yeah.... hopefully all will be sorted out soon.... I think she just needs more time.... and to be off the meds...... That's what I am hoping for at least.....
She is doing well though, her behavior is great, she is happy and chatty, and is not lethargic or depressed like she was when I first caught on that she was sick.... So I know that this is just a roadblock, but she is doing better overall. Hopefully her appetite will pickup soon and will remain stable

Hi Sally
I stopped the hairball treats, as it was too many a day - she is getting vaseline instead.
For the meds, she is still getting treats. I am fully aware that it might reduce the effectiveness of the diet, however it is a compromise I had to make. It is only 3 treats a day - 1 1/2 in the morning, and 1 1/2 at night.
By next Friday, she will be eating only one treat a day, as she will be off Methimazole and on only one appetite stimulant, in the morning.

Considering that she eats 1/2 cup of dry and 4oz of wet a day, I don't expect 3 treats to make a lot of difference, but here are my priorities for now:

1- liver
2- bone marrow
3- Thyroid

I do not want to neglect her thyroid - but it is not my biggest concern for the moment. Her numbers are not off the chart to begin with, and she is still on some medication - so I think we are fine this way. Per Hills, her thyroid should be all good one month after starting transition, and for some cats, 2 months - I am ok if she falls into the second category......... as long as I bring her liver values down and her bone marrow values start improving.

So.... I am shooting for her to be completely off treats on December 10th. Per Hills, 3 weeks on a 100% diet her thyroid should be at level. That puts her on the 31st, which is a couple of weeks after her first blood test.

We will see how these treats affect her..... It might, it might not..... I am not too concerned - Her Hepatic Lipidosis is concerning me way more.
If the thyroid comes good on the first test, it will be a great bonus - I will paste the results here

As far as putting medication on the food, as a rule of thumb of force feeding, it is a no-no as it can induce vomiting, so it is counter productive.
She will not eat if I mix it and spoon feed it to her....

Thank you
Thank you
Thank you hun

And I guess I should do a little follow up...... I am not sure if it is the appetite stimulants of if the syringe feeding day jump-started her appetite (I think the latter, then the appetite stimulants kicked in), but she is back!
The day I syringe fed her 6oz of wet food, right after my last feeding, she walked literally from the bag to the bowl.... and ate some dry food. Then about 10 minutes later she did it again. I know it was not the app. stimulants, as they take 24-48h to kick in, and she had just taken a dose....
Her dry food woke up almost all gone, which was surprising since she had eaten a can of wet - little piggie is back

I am now able to just spoon-feed her two meals - 2oz of wet in the am, and 2 oz in the pm - she is eating 1/2 cup of dry on her own.
Her cough, while still there, is way way less intense and less frequent - so the vaseline is definitely working
I will give it to her until the cough is all gone and I see that she passed the hairballs. The lack of appetite might have been due to it - she has a BIG problem with it.
I was considering shaving her, but she needs to go under anesthesia, and I am not putting her through that for shaving. She will have a dental as soon as my finances are back on track - probably in January/February, and I will shave her then. Until then, Vaseline will have to do the trick.
As far as her behavior goes..... all good - chatty chatty (she doesn't know she is a cat, so she talks, and LOUD ), playful, loooooves her laser light, happy, alert, and just being my loving little old lady
I think we will dodge this bullet with flying colors!

Gracie is doing really well on some things, and not so much on others...
She is eating better, at this point only spoon-fed 2 meals, am and pm, 2oz each, and eating her whole dry on her own
Her coat looks better already, she pack of hairloss is pretty much gone, she is no longer lethargic, her eyes are bright, she looks much healthier overall.
She is still on appetite stimulants 2x a day, and staring tomorrow she will go on once a day.
As of today,she is officially off Methimazole

The bad news is, she developed a pretty darn bad cough. I was assuming this to be a stuck hairball since she went off her hairball treats, but after the cough persisting 6 days of straight Vaseline and pumpkin, I am not sure. It does not sound like asthma - there is no hacking like asthma. It is a cough.... but it can get pretty bad to make her tired and go out of breath. It has been getting a little better lately, but I want to take no chances.... I am going out of town Sunday, so tomorrow I am going to the vet and getting a chest x-ray.
Hopefully it is nothing serious..... she is not acting sick, which is the good news..... and her breathing is good otherwise.
Please, if you can spare some vibes for her to continue to eat while I am away (Kelly will up her stimulants if her appetite goes down), and for tomorrow's problem to be only hairballs or a simple infection.... She can take all the vibes she can

Gracie went to the vet today, but there are not many answers - she went to Bugsy's hospital, but saw another vet, not Bugsy's as he is only going to be there next week, and I am going to be out of town.
Her vet, in another clinic, is going to be available Tuesday only, and they didn't have an in-house x-ray machine, so I decided we should go before I left....
Big mistake, big waste of money.
My appointment was at 11:30. They set her up in the room, I told a bit of Gracie's background, and the vet's first words were: The clinic closes in three minutes, so let me do the exam, because I have to go.
She listened to her lungs, wrote in a piece of paper..... I asked her if she heard anything - HELLO-O would you think about telling me? No, her lungs are clear.
I had faxed yesterday Gracies history and her blood test, she did not get it, nor bother to go to the front to take a look at it.
She pressed on Gracie's throat and she started coughing she then said, simply, it can be Tracheoitis or a tumor. Just like that. Said that we can do x-rays and then and endoscopy. I told her to get x-rays.... When the tech was taking her away, I told him to take her by the scruff - otherwise she would freak out..... Next thing I know he is carrying her by her belly and she is one freaked out kitty - I said... I just told you she needs to be scruffed and that she will freak - didn't you listen?
They come back and say that I need to come back - she was moving too much and trying to bite. (duh)
I asked - can't you gas her a little? - nope - we are closing now, we don't have the time.... I said.... Isoflurane doesn't take that long for the effects to go away.... Nope. Can you come back monday? No - I am out of town - which is why I came here today for this. Tuesday? Nope - I am out of town. Wednesday? Nope - I said I am out of town.
They want me to go Thursday.
I asked if they could see anything in this x-ray....... kind of.... She was moving too much, but it was a little shady around the heart.... It could be just because she was moving too much though..... We really need to take them over - different views of the trachea, heart and lungs.
GUESS if she charged me for the x-ray? You guessed it right yep.
She was not going to do anything about it - just send me home with Gracie.... then I asked her: what is the biggest probability here? She said - an irritation, inflammation of the trachea. Asked how she would treat it - A shot of steroids. Asked if it was cancer, if that would do any harm.... Nope it would be beneficial to reduce the inflammation on the surrounding tissue. So, that's what I told her to do, and went on my way.
I am not going to go back to her Thursday.
Kelly is going to take her to her vet Tuesday, and they will take the x-rays next door. Her vet is wonderful, and she is the one treating her for the thyroid.
I am not taking her suggestions of diagnosis either - there are SO many possibilities here..... sooo many - I will let her investigate and get to her conclusions alone.
I will also work on getting my $$$ back from the hospital with Bugsy's vet, who is wonderful, and the practice's owner- he would NEVER, in a million years, have done that - that is like water to wine when comparing to him.
Her cough has been getting a little better on the last few days, and after the steroid shot it seems to have calmed down somewhat -
I really don't think it is food allergies - she has no scratching, no diarrhea, and the cough is more on her throat than anything....
To me, it can be hairballs, aspiration from force-feeding - I did not notice that she aspirated, but this started after force-feeding, foreign object, tracheitis..... Good news is, it seems to be getting better, not worst - on Tuesday it was REALLY bad.... Wednesday started to get a little better..... Today it is not as bad anymore..... Still there, but not as bad.
On Tuesday, everytime she moved, she would have a cough fit - not today....
Anyways, that's the story - I will know more Tuesday..... Today was annoying and I feel I got my wallet stolen from me - ripped off.... but at least she got her steroids and I know her lungs are clear.
Tuesday we start over -

Yep.... I was reading an article about what could cause it today..... and then that's when I realized it.... wait.... this started when I started force-feeding her.....
I said in the article, that with foreign object, or aspiration, even when they pass the "object", it can create a lot of inflammation on the throat/trachea, and can take a while to pass - the coughing irritates even more..... and it can become chronic.
So that's definitely a possibility.
I did not notice her aspirating at all, but it is definitely a coincidence.
So it is the heater being on 100% of the time, the hairballs treats being discontinued...... etc..... We will see

So far things are looking up - she hasn't coughed for a while...... Just a little after she came from the vet, but nothing at all from about 4-5 until now (it is 2:30am).
Perhaps this is just an irritation on her throat and all she needed was some steroid