Raw Meat -Why you should not feed them raw stuff  

Thank you for your concern but this kind of information from a vet is nothing new to most raw feeders. A little research shows there is another side to the story, one that supports raw feeding, that we find more convincing.

 

 

Edited by mschauer - 11/11/11 at 10:42am

Raw is actually the best diet, but, it does take research and dedication.

It isn't for everyone, and it isn't simply a matter of giving them a bowl of meat.

 

Not surprising your vet would tell you these things though, as your average vet really doesn't get much training in nutrition beyond basics, generally sponsored by a pet food company.

 

For the record, I do not feed raw except as a once a week treat.

Raw feeding is controversial, and yes the American Veterinary Association also does not support raw feeding at this time.   The statement is correct, cats in the wild are eating meat that has been dead for a matter of minutes to hours.    Raw feeding is eating meat from animals typically in poor health conditions (see chicken/turkey farm videos) that has been dead for days and more importantly may have touched surfaces during industrial raw meat processing that are constantly reused and thus may be contaminated if not properly cleaned.   The FDA warns for example that up to 25% of commercial chicken should be expected to be contaminated with salmonella, and thus recommends minimum internal cooking temps before consumption. Proponents argue that a healthy cat has a strong enough immune system to deal with quite a lot of bacteria, and since many cats on this forum are fed raw and not ill that would seem to be proof.    Some vets will tell you though that they have seen how raw can go wrong, whether fed an incomplete or inappropriate diet or when perhaps immune compromised and becomes ill.   Then again, there are also cats that have become ill from contaminated cooked commercial food, and there is a reason that there are commercial recalls.  Personally, I prefer commercial food for my own convenience and safety and peace of mind that a regulating body is monitoring the micro and macro nutrients in the diet and at least attempting to ensure it is not contaminated.

 

BTW, I'm sure you know, but you don't want to feed a cat cooked meat either without supplementation.  Cooking the meat destroys not just bacteria but some nutrients in the meat, such as taurine, that cats need.  Commercial food cooks the meat, but then adds in taurine and other ingredients to ensure a complete and balanced healthy meal. 

Actually too much liver can cause diarrhea not constipation. The hairballs you mention are more likely to have caused constipation.

 

When you get back home do some research and make up your own mind. There is plenty of online information about feeding raw diets to pets. Learn about both sides of the issue and decide for yourself.

 

I hope Bianco is feeling better. A friend of mine recently had a cat clogged with hairballs. One day on a laxative and he was much better!

 

 

 

Since my older dog, Wilbur, a Jack Russel Terrier has become very finicky, I have started to offer raw food. Stella and Chewey's to be specific. Both the raw meats and the freeze-dried raw. My cat's have gone crazy for the raw too. So I started offering my cat's the same brand. They now get one meal a day raw and are doing quite well with it. So far I am really happy with the Stella/Chewey's raw diets

It only makes sense that the diet an animal is biologically designed to thrive on is going to be the most nutritionally sound and healthy diet for that animal. A raw animal-based diet is, obviously then, the healthiest one we can provide our obligatorily carnivorous cats. That such a diet needs to be "balanced" is, of course, as much a given in a raw diet as it is in any other one - commercial or otherwise.

 

There is now so much information available on raw feeding that even a little research will yield reputable information on the benefits and methods, pros and cons.

Those who home-prepare their cats' foods generally do so because of the superb control over both the quality and make-up of the ingredients, not to mention the reduced costs, but raw feeding isn't limited to do-it-yourself models; you can feed commercial or home-prepared or any mix of the two. Commercial foods are usually ground and frozen within a very short period of time, and some varieties now come with pathogen-free guarantees to ease consumer minds.

There are so many ways to feed raw today that anyone interested in it should be able to find one that fits their lifestyle and resources.

 

AC

Quote:

Modern athletes and body builders have found that scientific advancements in nutrition can provide superior results (artificially concentrating protein for shakes for example can help build muscle mass w/o high fat/cholesterol of most natural sources), and processed long-dead chicken, lamb, and beef isn't really a "natural" diet for a cat regardless.   Feeding live rodents and birds and the like would be, but that would be quite expensive and messy, and not necessarily superior to a diet w/ vitamins and antioxidants and the like considering ferals have quite short life spans compared to pampered indoor cats on commercial diets which have been recorded living longer than 20 years (vs around 3yrs on average for ferals).

The supposedly longer life-span of indoor cats has nothing to do with commercial food and everything to do with safety from predators and cars, as well as advancements in veterinary care. In fact, I would say that highly processed dry food actually kills more cats than anything else. Your statement that ferals have shorter lives because of their live-prey diet is pretty far-fetched. 

 

 

You're absolutely correct, "...processed long-dead chicken, lamb, and beef isn't really a "natural" diet for a cat regardless." This is precisely why I do not feed commercial canned or kibble products to my cats; those products are so heavily processed they come off the production line pretty much nutritionally inert, and must have synthetic vitamins and minerals added to address their deficiencies.

 

Raw feeders, even whole prey feeders, generally feed meat that is processed only to the point it's killed and packaged, a much more nutritionally sound practice. Feeding live prey is cruel and puts a cat at risk for injury - both activities any responsible cat owner would naturally seek to avoid.

 

As for the feral cat / indoor cat life span = what they eat argument, that has been so thoroughly debunked, I'm surprised you brought it up. The life span of indoor cats has, in fact, been contracting steadily over the last decade and even the AVMA has had meetings to discuss the problem. Diabetes (an entirely man-made, food-related disease), has increased 16% in cats, and it's only one of many diseases and health problems that have done so.

 

To return to the OP's discussion:
 

Hi, Bianco Maple!

 

There is a possibility that the kibble could be exacerbating or even causing Bianco's digestive issues. The Feline Nutrition Education Society's website, feline-nutrition.org, contains information related to this, as does Dr. Hofve's site, LittleBigCat.com. You can search these sites for kibble, constipation, hairballs and obesity and learn how diet impacts coat loss and stool consistency (and how kibble affects a cat's entire physiology).

 

Dr. Pierson has a site, catinfo.org, that goes into great depth on the diet topic and includes discussion of hairballs and obesity. Instead of a "search" feature, this site has a clickable index you can find by scrolling down just a bit.

 

Best regards!

 

AC

Raw food is generally processed long dead chicken, beef, and lamb, which are unnatural protein sources a cat would never hunt in the wild.   This is perfectly fine, but to sell it as "more natural" is quite false.   The difference between the meat in commercial raw food (unless anyone here actually lives on a farm and raises and slaughters their own meat) and commercial cat food is that one is cooked first to destroy harmful pathogens, and the other is not.    The chicken you buy at the grocery store is not intended for raw consumption per the government and industry leaders.   A youtube search of "poultry processing plant" will demonstrate why the meat is cooked first, and how it is nothing like a fresh kill a cat would make and eat on its own.

 

You are claiming I made a statement that I did not, please read more carefully.  And you could in fact say that highly processed dry food actually kills more cats than anything else, and I could say the same about raw food, and we'd both win creative writing awards since we'd have no facts to back up our statements.  

 

Not sure how else to interpret the below statement. Perhaps you should word your comments more carefully.

 

 

 

 

Except that cats in North America are fed kibble more than anything else, and that kibble is largely responsible for an increase in diabetes, obesity, dental disease, bladder/urinary tract disorders, inflammatory bowel disease, allergies, and kidney disease (some would even add cancer to the melange). A balanced raw diet doesn't even come close to doing that kind of harm.
 

 

Hi, Bianco: I give my cats Laxatone to prevent hairballs. It's tuna-flavored, comes in a tube, is thick and easy to use, and it's a treat they love so much that they once bit open a tube. (But the kittens only loved it after I smeared it on their lips several times. The other cat always loved it, though). I order it from Amazon, $8 a tube including shipping. Maybe your husband can have it waiting for him when he goes to the US. Otherwise you can only buy it from your own personal vet (in the US). Also, cooked pumpkin--no spices added--help keep things moving in the intestines. It is added to some of the "hairball prevention" foods. A small amount does a lot, and too much creates diarrhea--to play it safe, I would start with 1/4 teaspoon/a few grams at a time.

Welcome to TCS Carmina!

I'm not sure if you noticed, but Bianco Maple started this thread in November. She had 14 posts on TCS, so I'm not sure he/she's still around to see your note. But thanks for sharing how you manage hairballs. Pumpkin is a great way to help kitties keep moving things comfortably along.

Aw, so nice to see you! And GREAT to hear the hairball problem is resolved!

Hope you have a great 2012 too!

Eeep! I got caught by an old-post trap! As you can tell, I'm new, and I forgot to look at dates as I browsed the posts. It's nice to find out the hairball problem is solved, Bianco. And thank you for the welcome, LDG!

People who feed exclusively raw come up with the same arguements all the time... "It's better for them" "It's what they would eat in the wild"  "It's what they crave" "The good outweighs the bad"

 

First of all, cats have been domesticated over the past few 1000 years, what most people feeding raw to a cat do not acknowledge is that it's NOT something that would be on their normal menu if in the wild.  A domestic cat could never bring down a whole cow!  A chicken, maybe.  But even that would be very dangerous and take some doing.  So unless you are feeding them a bird or mice or some other rodent, it is not likely something they would hunt.  It is very true that big cats eat immediately and so chances of bacteria are less.  Even stuff they don't eat right away well scavengers get it most of the time.  So unless you butchered the cow or chicken yourself and immediately gave it to your cat, it's going to have higher chances of contaminates. 

 

My cats won't eat raw.  And personally, I am glad they turn their noses up at it.  But, I also acknowledge that the other side has their beliefs and facts too and it will be hard to convince them otherwise.  To each his own, I guess. 

Sure.... that's how I thought about it too..... For years.... I was against raw through and through. I had the same arguments you just posted - and then some. You can look through my posts. Auntie can tell you - and so can furryfriends50 - I gave them nasty hell. I thought their theory was crap - just like you do. Meanwhile..... My IBD cat Bugsy had some serious issues. He had diarrhea not for a month or 2 - but for One year and two months. On that time, I can not tell you the number of times we went to the vet, ended up on emergency rooms, medications we tried, procedures, tests, thousands of dollars I spent - yep , on the the top of his insurance, diets we tried, and how much he suffered. He suffered Every day. His liver was damaged so many drugs he took.
He was going to have a big surgery, as this was going to be his only chance..... exploratory surgery - big recovery time.... risk of dying.... huge amount of pain.... and in the end, I might not be able to treat him, because he wouldn't tolerate medicine anyways.
Against my will.... against everything I wanted - I owned to him to try everything - and one thing I hadn't tried was a raw diet.
Guess what? In five Days - not weeks, not months. Days - before even eating 100% raw, Bugsy had formed, perfectly firm poop.
So, I don't care about this "raw people say this or that or this other thing". Raw saved Bugsy's life, when nothing else would. And I can say, with 100% certainty in my heart, that I tried everything in this World. To see Bugsy now, thriving, showing no signs of pain.... Happy.... To know that he has no colic.... To know that the future of many many cats with unresolved IBD is lymphoma, and that could be his future...... and that he is doing Wonderful now....... with a change of diet...... Warms My heart.
It is not about theory. It is about feeding them what they are supposed to eat. Cats are carnivores - they are made to eat meat - that right there is the very bottom line. You open their mouths you see that. Their stomachs are made for that, their whole digestive system is of a carnivore. Sure, they are not killing a cow on the wild...... But you will Never see a cat eating a carrot stick either. They simply do not have what it takes to digest grains, vegetables, or anything besides meat.
Feed your cat meat only, and see how they thrive. Do the test, then talk about it.
I did it, and I am so so glad I took this step, because had it been later...... God only knows what might have happened to my baby boy
Edited by Carolina - 2/8/12 at 1:20pm

And how long exactly have cats been eating kibble again?  I can't speak for anyone else but I raise my own mice for my animals, I buy whole rabbits and butcher them myself, I order other whole prey online (quail, guinea pigs, rats, etc). Venison comes from family hunters, I buy chicken/turkey/beef/pork at the grocery store for the most part but I can get beef and chicken straight from a local farm in the fall as well.  Although I have to say I don't worry much about contaminates, my cat is a senior, but she's still a cat and perfectly capable of eating some bacteria with her meals, she got meat today leftover from my ferrets that sat out all night, they eat food that's sat around in their room long enough to turn into jerky, if neither of them wants it I offer it to the dogs.     Having seen her puke for years, looking and feeling terrible on vet sold kibble, you'll never convince me to feed that to a cat again.  The differences have been amazing. 

^ To the previous 2 posts, I feed my cats meat, too (Chicken, turkey, liver, tuna)... Cooked as they will not take it raw.  I don't feed them kibble all the time.  If I do, it's high grade stuff and not the cheapest stuff I can get. They love it cooked.  They will not eat it raw.  To each his own.  And, it's all theories.  Nothing can be certain and true for every cat because every cat has different needs.  Some cannot handle or do not like an exclusively raw diet.  It's no reason to jump all over someone because they don't feed their cat just as you feed yours.  Maybe it doesn't work for them.  That's all I am saying.  I wasn't saying anyone's wrong.  I've been on other cat forums that would preach and preach about raw and when anyone would say "Well my vet said not to feed my cat this because it makes them sick" or "They won't eat it"... The people would get all upset and offended and say things like "Your vet is an idiot!  It's what they were made to eat and what they want and you must not be doing it right!"  I am just saying- calm down we all do the best we can by our cats and if someone isn't like you and doesn't feed them raw, it doesn't make them wrong, either...    

To each its own is right..... We will have to agree to disagree that cats won't eat meat - at some point they will - every single one of them, if you are persistent, yep, they will. I just transitioned a die hard kibble addicted who had never in her life eaten a drop of wet food, out of Purina.... She would throw up at the scent of wet, let alone raw - to her, that was disgusting. It took her one lick - one.... to pass on kibbles and don't look back. Sure.... It took 35days trying every single meal.... But we got there....
It is not a theory - it is a fact. Cats are obligate carnivores. Look it up anywhere.... You will not find it any different, anywhere.... because that is a fact. That means that they are strictly carnivores. The theory might lie if kibbles might be harmful or not, if canned might be harmful or not, so on and so forth. But there is not theory behind the simple fact that cats are obligate carnivores - that hasn't and won't change.
There is no theory behind what happened to Bugsy either - that is a fact.
Everyone has a choice of feeding whatever they want for their cats.... You do, and I do too..... Yep, some diets do work better than others..... Just like in human diets, if you eat mcdonalds every day, you will have a sub-par health..... the same applies to our babies.... It is all about giving them a clean diet. The thing about raw, it is just it - meat, which is what they digest better, and no additives, no chemicals, nothing.... nothing else. Think about taking all the additives from your own diet - think how much healthier you would be? How much better your body would work? It is not that hard to figure it out....
A clean, balanced diet, with easy to digest ingredients..... can only benefit any species.... Let that be a cat, a dog, a human.... That is the beauty of it....
There is much more you can look into it, including taking a deeper look into the pet industry in the US that might give you a different perspective.... I am not here to push anyone for a raw diet..... I am already feeding it, and frankly.... my babies already have the best, and ultimately, they are the ones who I really have in my heart.....
But if you have the time, and the curiosity, take a look at these threads - it might open your eyes for a thing or two....

http://www.thecatsite.com/t/239691/nutritionally-complete-assurances-for-our-pet-food
http://www.thecatsite.com/t/240809/raw-feeding-resource-thread
Make sure to watch this video - sorry mods - it has been puled from youtube.....http://videos.videopress.com/DHZChjRu/pet-food_-a-dogs-breakfast_480p_fmt1.ogv

What are you talking about?  That is not what I said at all!  I didn't say cats don't eat meat... I said that some will NOT eat raw meat.  Cooked meat is still meat.  I've read all the articles.  No need to throw those in my face.  I know both sides.  You are just ranting about something I didn't even say.  I was saying that RAW meat does not work for some... But it's no reason to get all offended because they don't agree with your point of view.  Chill out, OK.  You are going off in an entirely different direction.  To that, I leave you guys with your crazed babble and bashing of those who don't feed RAW because of health reasons or their cats dislike it. 
 

 

Likewise.