FIP and tummy drain

Hi all,

  I am a new member and will introduce myself in the proper thread. I have 7 cats, all adopted me from varying sad circumstances in their lives. There is a transient neighborhood nearby and people love to abandon their pets. I have alot of experience with kitties but my new exposure to the sickening FIP disease has broken even my strong back. I apologize if any of this rambles.

   Last winter, a stray showed up pregnant at my back door. (my cats are fixed) In June, she had 5 babies I became a surrogate momma to willingly. One baby passed at 4 months, failure to thrive, I thought. Two days of being listless, some gasping breaths the last night and sadly, she was gone. The 2nd female calico began swelling in her belly at about 7 weeks, looked like a skeleton with a HUGE abdomen. That was my introduction to FIP. She had to be put down in a week, as she developed seizures, as well. At time of vet visit, all 5 kittens were tested Leukemia positive. It devastated me. Third kitten started showing signs of FIP at about 8 weeks, lethargic, high fevers, depression, swollen abdomen, eye issues.It tore me up to have to make the decision to end her suffering but she "told" me when it was time.  With the last 2 females, Layla and Chee Chee, it affected them neurologically. They were basically zoned out, just stood and stared or sat in the sun. There are 2 boys left. Pete and Buddy were so happy and playful, seemed to defy the disease that took their sisters. Pete was/is super affectionate, loves to lick you and purr, so sweet and just an absolute keeper. I thanked my stars the boys were spared and got a chance to live normal.

   About 3 weeks ago, I started seeing signs in Pete (he is my avatar pic, BTW) HE acted tired, eyes were first clue and then, the dreaded belly swell. Since, his belly has gotten huge and wide. I know he is uncomfortable but he does not seem to be in pain.His breathing is being impacted but he is still eating, drinking, purring, licking us with affection and bright eyed. He sleeps alot. I understand. FIP is disgusting and it is making those blood vessels leak and his body is being starved of protein. Unlike his sisters though, he is neurologically intact. He is affectionate and gets lost without myself or my husband here so he can simply sit on our chest. So, here is the dilemma.

   I want so badly to have his belly drained of this fluid. Some places will say that it is fruitless, as we are just prolonging the inevitable. I am aware of that. I know his time will soon come. Meanwhile, the draining of fluid would relieve so much pressure on his overworked body. With Layla, the vet attempted to do the drain but she said Layla would not do it without a fight and she gave up...said she would have to be still for a minute or two but would not cooperate, so she did not want to traumatize her. Does anyone have any experience with abdomen draining in a pet? I don';t want to put Pete through pain only to have it make a difference of a few days. They give no assurance of how long before the fluid fills up again. I want to know if it is worth it and if others would chosses that option. Again, I don't want him to suffer but I don't want to deny something that may bring him comfort. I just need human input, not clinical comparisins. Thanks for listening and for any advice/thoughts on this. It hurts to see this hurt HIM.

Gonna post briefly. I know other people come here looking for advice so, you never know when a personal experience will help. Took Pete to vet today. He is looking bad, belly so big, skeletal frame, sunken eyes. I know the end is soon but wanted to see the vet's opinion on tapping his belly since he has been alert, neurologically.

   She said if it were her kitten, she would not drain his belly. It could be done and would give him some relief but...the fluid could return in as little as an hour or maybe a few days later. No matter, his prognosis is grim, as I knew. She said the procedure had some serious risks, including infection and even shock that could kill him right there. Plus, the procedure is very stressful and it hurts. His breathing is still good but that won't last. He is having a hard time getting around now and sleeps most of the day. It has sucked the life from his eyes and personality. FIP takes their entire spirit and it stinks. I suspect he most likely will not make it past Tuesday but he will tell me when it is time and I will do right by my little boy. So, there it is. I hope no one else is reading this because they are in the same situation. The internet has lots of clinical info but few personal experiences with FIP. Thank goodness I found this wonderful site.

We adopted an 8 year old cat in August of 2010 from our animal care and control here in London. We didn't know anything about FIP at the time, we hadn't heard of it, even though we have both had multiple cats in our lives previously. If we would have known about the disease, we would have seen it just from his adoption pictures - he had the classic signs; swayed back, half closed eyes, bloated belly. We adopted him, not knowing, and a few weeks after we brought him home his energy decreased, he wasn't eating much and he wasn't pooping. We thought he was maybe constipated and that he might have worms (we had dewormed him but thought maybe he had something that the wormer hadn't covered). We packed him up and took him to the vet, she drained some the fluid from his belly and diagnosed him with FIP based on the colour of the fluid, his symptoms and something else. She gave us an apetite stimulant for him which helped for about a week, then I had to start force feeding him, picking him up and carrying him to the litter box and back, all he would do was lay in his bed. We let him go on for way too long, we should have had him put to sleep earlier but we had hope that he would pull through. He passed around 1 am on October 18th, 2010, I had taken force fed him a bit of food and water, taken him to his box to use the bathroom and put him back in his bed. I sat there and cuddled him for a little bit, he licked me quite a bit and rubbed my hand with his head - something he hadn't had the energy to do for the past two weeks. I went to bed and came back about an hour later to go to the bathroom, he was gone. 

With all that being said - we did have his tummy drained twice, we would have had it done more if our vet was closer. It did seem to help, thankfully his didn't refill fast, but it was a possibility. 

I'm sorry you're going through this, it's a horrible disease. 

Hi nerdrock...thank you so much for that relay of experience. I was so sad reading it. No one knows what we watch until it happens to them and I hope it NEVER does. Now, I am crying knowing what you went through and how this sick disease can claim so many stolen lives.What is odd is that I keep seeing people post about cats at mid age like that having FIP. The way research would have you believe, they are so resilient to FIP between the ages of 2 and 12. I have other cats and that concerns me. Plus, I know Petey had a strike against him with having Leukemia. His one brother of the litter of 5 remains. So far, he looks unaffected by FIP but as I know, that can change in an instant.

   Yup, the swayback, skeletal frame and especially the transparent look around the eyes are a big giveaway. They should have known how sick your baby was and I am so sorry you had to endure that, so sorry.

    You seemed to have luck with the draining for a bit. If I may ask, do you believe it traumatized him or was super painful? Research says it is not safe to have it done more than twice, as it just depletes the body of too much protein. You WOULD do it again, knowing what you know? My vet was pretty knowledgeable and compassionate. She said if it were her kitten, she would not drain his belly. She said his prognosis is grim and the shock of the drain leaves a possibility that he could die on the spot. Yet, my instinct says he is so alert otherwise, that I should try. I just don't know. I don't want to prolong the inevitable but it is hard to stand idle. It is 99% fatal but the other small part of you hopes he could just hold on awhile longer. His quality of life is my only concern but he is doing okay, except for the belly swell and extreme fatigue...eating okay, drinking, alert and mobile, although slow. Guess I am just looking for real kitty people input. I would love to know what you think. I hope you don't mind me asking. The 2 girl kittens I had to PTS had "checked out" early on, neurologically and I will not force feed Petey. I don't want to ignore his suffering but I guess each case is different.

When we got him we assumed that he had seen a vet because he had his shots and we were adopting him for ~$150 (I can't remember the exact cost) from animal care and control - the people who are supposed to be there to protect and rehome stray and abandoned animals. We realized too late that he had NEVER seen a vet in the time he was at ACC (at least 8 months from what we were told). I have since learned quite a bit about our particular ACC and the ones in neighbouring counties - I will spare you the details, but I do take some solice that he was with people that loved him very much when he passed and not in some cold metal cage. 

His name was Stanley by the way, we called him Stan. 

I am going to try to find the thread that I had started when he first became sick - I believe someone posted something on there about the story of a cat that developed the wet version of FIP, went through some sort of treatment and lived. I found out about it too late, but that may not be the case for yours. 

IMO, for Stan, draining his belly was the best thing we could have done for him. There was no treatment, we knew he was going to die, we just didn't know when. We gave him the highest protein food that we could find at the time, I don't remember what it was though, we figured it might help get a bit more into his system however I don't know if it actually did. Stan LOVED going to the vet, he was weird like that, so the trips to drain his belly didn't bother him. I think that was a big difference for us, that the vet trips didn't cause him stress. If they had, we most likely wouldn't have done them. With Stan, I would definitely do it again. 

It's hard to look at them, knowing what they're going through, and wonder how much longer they're going to be with you - it could be days, weeks, months, even a year. You never know.

If your instinct is telling you to go ahead and do it, do it. If he passes, you know you did everything you could and most importantly, it would be a peaceful passing because he would be put under for the procedure and wouldn't feel a thing.  

I wouldn't be too concerned with your other cats. From what I have read and understand about FIP, it's the corona virus that mutates only in certain cats under certain circumstances. Most cats have already been in contact with the virus and are carriers. In your case, I would suspect that since all of the cats you've had that have developed FIP were related they are all genetically predispositioned to mutating the virus. Correct me if I'm wrong on them being related. I believe there is also a test you can have done to see if your cats have corona virus, but there is no conclusive FIP test for living cats, just testing that can be done that will indicated whether the cat has FIP. 

I am going to go try to find that thread now. I will post soon. 

I found the site that I was talking about. It might be worthwhile printing out and showing your vet to discuss. 

http://hpathy.com/veterinary-homeop...ggested-new-rubrics-developed-from-500-cases/

If your vet is unwilling, it may be worth it to see if there is a homeopathic/holistic vet in your area. Here's a site that lists them;

http://www.holisticvetlist.com/index

Wow, I cannot tell you how nice it was to come on and read this. To know the time it took for you to be so open and thorough was very touching and so kind of you. I can't thank you enough. Stan sure was a loved boy and like you said, didn't have to emotionally and physically suffer in a metal cage all alone. That's just a horribly sad thought. Ha...those animal control/shelters can be a real work of art. I went local to volunteer at a new "no kill" shelter here. They should have just had dogs. The dogs got let out to play 3 times daily, the cats/kittens never allowed out. Behind public view are many more cages crammed with kittens and cats who are never socialized and they quietly take unwanted animals to local vets to be euthanized. How very sad that they advertise as a godsend and collect public donations.

   That article you posted was fascinating...the homeopath's whole outlook was eye opening, thank you. I am going to take Petey to get his fat belly drained tomorrow. You are right. I just have to follow my instincts. The 2nd kitten was neuologically affected and the seizure was it for me. To have her scream like that, I knew she was begging for relief. The 3rd was neuro, as well but no seizures. Chee Chee just stared all day long. When she stopped eating and hid, I knew. Pete does not make anything that obvious. He is still acting hungry, although he doesn't eat much. He is aware of what is happening around him, just too worn out and depressed to act on impulse. So, I will see what happens when the belly is drained. The article is right. I think vets know very little about FIP and care just as much. They all just tell you they are gonna die. The first vet just dismissed it as worms. Maybe Petey will die...well, it's likely but I am going to follow that gut. I will also now research high protein diets for him and immune boosters. At least if he goes, it is because I did all that I could for him. He deserves no less.

   Maybe he will go back to licking my eyelashes and nose and rubbing our chins with his paws. He was here for a reason, not to just passively die of starvation.

   Yes, Pete is one of 5 in the litter of a Leukemia positive mom. The 1st died at 4 weeks, just simply didn't thrive. Next 2 had wet FIP with neuro affliction, no human bonding once it set in. I thought at that point that it was a disease that went after calicos or females mostly. Pete & Buddy had thrived. Then Pete got sick a few weeks ago and has held on longer than the girls. Buddy, thusfar does not look FIP afflicted, all are Leukemia positive. Maybe if we have enough info, eventually someone will put it altogether and find a cure for this hideous disease and no one else will ever endure it again.   Again, thank you sooooo very much. I will post what happens after his drain. Your advice and input has been so wonderful and I appreciate all of the effort you have made for me. I'm glad Stan had such a wonderful, caring heart when he needed it most.

Thankfully, I have no experience with FIP. But I am soooooo sorry to read about your rescue babies. My heart goes out to you all, and I'm sending you many vibes as you navigate through this terrible time. :heart3:

When I was looking for that article I stumbled on something about a university trying to find a genetic marker for FIP. I will see if I can find it again and send you the info. I believe they were asking for cheek swabs from cats/kittens that have/had FIP and relatives of cats/kittens that have/had FIP. If they are still collecting the swabs, you may be able to send his in to help locate the marker. 

Here's the one that I came across: 

http://www.sockfip.info/fip-studies.html

And another in Glasgow:

http://www.gla.ac.uk/schools/vet/cad/informationforvets/fipresearch/

Here's a site that I came across just now regarding treatment, I haven't read it and it's based out of the UK (I think), but it may be helpful. 

http://www.dr-addie.com/treatment.htm

All paws crossed for the one remaining kitten, and bless you for giving them so much love and care in their short lives. What about the little mother? Is she doing well? She is FeLV +?

We have a memeber here who went through a heartbreaking fight with FIP and her beloved Mackerel. I have participated in other threads in other forums. The end result is always the same, but they fight so hard, these precious ones, and their owners with them. Heart breaking.

to the remaining baby boy, his mama, and you.

TnTrouble456 said:

...I want so badly to have his belly drained of this fluid...With Layla, the vet attempted to do the drain but she said Layla would not do it without a fight and she gave up...said she would have to be still for a minute or two but would not cooperate, so she did not want to traumatize her. Does anyone have any experience with abdomen draining in a pet? I don';t want to put Pete through pain only to have it make a difference of a few days. They give no assurance of how long before the fluid fills up again. I want to know if it is worth it and if others would chosses that option. Again, I don't want him to suffer but I don't want to deny something that may bring him comfort...

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A few years ago, I faced this situation but with a different virus at play - I wanted the fluid drained, the Vet refused and insisted on a course of action which resulted in the cat being euthanized. After the fact, I consulted with a cat-only Vet and was advised that, of course, she would have drained the fluid....to immediately remove that threat from the picture, to have the cat feel better and, most importantly, to buy more time to pursue further diagnosis/treatment. My understanding is that no pain is involved in the draining. And, surely, a cat can be mildly sedated for the procedure if s/he is not cooperative - mild sedation is routinely used with non-compliant cats for even minor procedures like blood draws.

My cat was dealing with FeLV......I find it interesting that Layla is as well.

The internet has lots of clinical info but few personal experiences with FIP.

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In fact, there is one "central"place where you can connect with many, many people who have dealt and are dealing with the health management of their FIP+ kitties. This "place" has been around for nearly ten years and has had almost 1300 participants. At "this place" you'll find "newbies" like yourself as well as people with many years experience dealing with FIP. This "place" is an online support group - this is where I'd be today if faced with FIP. You can find it here http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/FIPCatSupport/ (I find that one can learn very much by joining these groups and simply reading what others are experiencing and the recommendations made by other group members.)

Please, do keep us updated.

nerdrock said:

Here's the one that I came across: 

http://www.sockfip.info/fip-studies.html

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nerdrock, thanks for those excellent links!

Now, if you go to the one I used in the quote above, on the right side of that page ("Newsflash), there's a piece entitled "WINNing the FIP Fight: Veterinarians Reveal the Latest at Winn Feline Symposium". That event occurred in June 2011, and the audio recording of same is available online.

It's divided into three parts which can be found at these links:

1. http://petworldradio.net/winn-symposium-part-1-dr-alfred-legendre

2. http://petworldradio.net/winn-symposium-part-2-dr-niels-pederson

3. http://petworldradio.net/winn-symposium-part-3-q-a

I haven't listened yet, so this is not an endorsement....an interesting quip from the event MC, however:'If FIP were a disease of dogs, a cure would have been found long ago' - a standing ovation followed!

White Shadow, thanks so much for that input. I have heard great things about that yahoo group. Had not wanted to get a yahoo account but broke down and did after seeing your post. They sure have alot of info there! I agree, if it were a dog affliction, there would have been a cure already. Poor kitties get such a bum rap.

   I did not take Pete to get drained the other day. He had started to get tired looking again and I kept wavering between that and not, not wanting to stress him. I think I should have followed my gut earlier and did it anyway. He is even more alert today.

   If you read about FIP at length, it seems standard for them to only last a few days or couple of weeks at the onset of obvious symptoms. Pete is full in the belly but otherwise, seems to be hanging in real well more than a month after I saw it. I think I will remedy that tomorrow afternoon and ask to have it drained. My vet will do it. I had wondered about possible sedation for the procedure but thought they may say no, due to the breathing issues anget it drained. If he can fight it, I can help.

    I didn't want him stressed out. It looks like in his case, it surely may buy him more time and I can work on the protein and vitamin issues. I thought perhaps too, with his Leukemia, that the draining would just speed up other trouble spots to take over. So, I just got real divided. It sure isn't an easy call but with him outlasting the statistics, I think I will give the drain a try. He is worth it. Again, thank you for posting those links.

  Buddy, his brother in the litter was laying on me last night. As I rubbed his belly, it was making awful "pops" like electrical currents bouncing off my fingers. That constant pop and gurgling is what I have felt in all of the other babies as their bellies got more filled with fluid. I think it is getting to the brother now.

Well, an update, as I know others will unfortunately face this sad disease in the future. Took Petey to have his belly drained on Friday. The vet pulled out almost 1 litre of fluid, an astounding amount on such a lil kitten. He is 5 months old but is less than 2/3 the size of his brother. Anyhow, the syringe was the sickening straw color we dread. He did well in sedation and he looked like a lil skeleton when we took him from the cage. All the way home, he laid in my arms on his back purring, so excited to see us. He was literally bursting with happiness...licking my chin, chewing my eyelashes and pretending to "nurse" again and he was sparkling.

   Within half hour of being home though, he was back to being sick. Since then, he sleeps much of the day again, looks soooo skinny and wants to eat often, although it is obvious the nutrition isn't getting to his little body. He is so boney and tired. The eyes look sunken and horrible, breathing is still bad. Fluid is rapidly returning. I don't regret doing it but knowing the outcome, I wouldn't do it a 2nd time nor to another baby. The vet was grim. Said to just take him home, love him and give him anything he wants. You could tell she knows he doesn't have much longer and it is obvious she is correct. She said maybe I could add Lysine but with the Leukemia driving the body as well, he won't be around much longer.

   I am going to love him as long as I can, until he is in pain or too weak...he will tell me with his actions. I have been down this road far too often. That is a very loved boy. His brother is still hanging tough, acting normal and crazy, no signs of fluid.

   So, if you ever seek this thread for the same quandry, follow your heart and do what you feel you and your baby need. In my case, the Leukemia combined with wet FIP is too much for my boy. Some people have been glad they chose the drain option. It just didn't work out for me and Petey. Thank you all for your support here thusfar. You have saved my sanity.

I am so sorry - you did everything humanly possible - and you love him...that's the most important thing.

I would say "poor little baby" and I am sorry he is going through this, but he is not poor in the sense that he is rich with love and care, thanks to you. I hope his brother can lick it before it becomes the mutated full blown FIP and goes on to live a long healthy life.

Please keep us posted.

otto said:

I would say "poor little baby" and I am sorry he is going through this, but he is not poor in the sense that he is rich with love and care, thanks to you. I hope his brother can lick it before it becomes the mutated full blown FIP and goes on to live a long healthy life.
Please keep us posted.

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I couldn't say it better.

Just know I'm so sorry.


:heart3:

Thank you all for your incredibly kind encouragement here. Unfortunately, I have posted Petey's story under the Crossing the Bridge forum. He lost his brave fight with FIP today. It didn't allow me to feel very thankful at Thanksgiving but I take comfort that he was so loved and has finally found peace with no pain.