Help with dry/wet food

ollieoxenfree · Nov 7, 2011

We just got Oliver a couple days ago and he's a skinny thing. We want to fill him out to what he should be judging by his frame. Anyway, since he was a surprise emergency rescue (abandoned outside) and we had nothing that night I picked up some Whiska's wet food in the foil stand up pouch and President's Choice Finicky Cat in the same form. He loves them

As for dry food, the next day we went out and bought Friskies Stuffed Morsels. He eats them free fed. His treat are and always will be Temptations. Tomorrow or Wednesday I will also pick up chicken hearts for the taurine.

I am a believer in raw diets but I'm afraid I don;t have enough money or variation to keep at it for 20 years so I want to ease into that slowly. For now, what foods do you recommend? Is there a cat food analysis site I can check foods on? (theres a dog food analysis site). I fed my senior dog PC Nurtition First, Chicken Soup for the Soul, Holistic Blend and Lick your Chops last going off and I had great results. I want to take a more proactive measure this time and start right for my cat as I tried too late for my poor dog.

I hear EVO is good, Blue Buffalo, Wellness but are those priced fairly? and easy to get at? What wet food do you recommend?

All thoughts are appreciated

This is my first kitty and I wanna do by him right!

I am also going to pick up enzymatic toothpaste next time I goes to PetSmart.. Do cats take it well? Is there flavours that some cats prefer?? And is there any preferred brands? Or is PetSmart brand or whatever's cheapest okay?

I am by no means made of money. I get by on part time work and a student loan so I cannot afford crazy expensive stuff, just good food for reasonable price

Thanks!

minka · Nov 7, 2011

Unless you have the money to feed a Ton of them, I wouldn't feed pouches. For a cat not gaining weight you need three, for a cat gaining weight, 4+ a day.

Unless you are planning on switching to raw, there isn't much point in feeding chicken hearts alongside Friskies dry. Like this article explains, the dry food basically voids out the benefits that the raw meat would bring. http://feline-nutrition.org/answers/answers-feed-raw-and-dry-at-the-same-time (Unless of course, you switch to a much higher quality dry like Evo or Nature's Variety, then it might not be cancelled out so much.)

If you are thinking about going raw, I would contact Auntie Crazy and/or post in the raw feeding forum to get more info. It's really actually cheaper than buying commercial food once you know how to shop sales, buy in bulk and pre-prepare all meals.

I do have some sites that analyze cat foods, but unfortunately my computer is out for repair so I don't have them... Maybe someone else will.

I recommend Authority, By Nature, Merrick, Innova, Blue Buffalo, Wellness Core, Simply Nourish, Nature's Variety and Evo. I can't say what the prices on their dry foods are because I don't feed dry, but before my cat developed allergies I was only spending *87 cents* a day on wet food. (Those being By Nature, Innova, Authority, and Before Grain.)

I don't know anything about toothpastes besides go slow and get him used to your finger before trying the toothbrush.

I also am a part-timer and going to school, so I understand budgeting. :nod:

ollieoxenfree · Nov 8, 2011

Thanks

I don't plan on keeping him on Friskies (it was the 'best' kind in the store 30 seconds from our house) so it had to do. I wish we were better prepared for Oliver then I would have picked up a food I knew was good because I had planned on looking it up before adopting!

Are chicken hearts okay as a treat? I think it would be gross but fun to feed. He comes from an indoor/outdoor lifestyle and I thought the hearts would benefit him?

I will look more into raw food but I would have to get my boyfriend on board. He knows I'm educated when it comes to my animals bc I'm always on the pet-specific forums (betta, bunny, cat, all pets) but I think it might take him a while to get used to a raw food diet (is it called BARF?) So for the time it will have to be dry/wet.

Dollarama sells Whiska's brand cat food for 50c a pouch. That's reasonable, and the fact that we can walk there from our house (or bike) is even better! I don't mind feeding him the pouches... Is there a more economical savvy wet food? I don't like the idea of refridgerating an open can for later... How does everyone else go about the cold can dilemma?

(*Thanks for the raw food article, I'll read it after posting this)

*edit* Okay, I understand now why raw food + dry food is no good. Is there any reason I shouldn't feed him a chicken heart once a week or so? Then it wouldn't have an effect on his acidity and the release of those 2 hormones. And just a question regarding this, cats who go outdoors and kill their own prey (birds, mice) eat parts of them and then go home to eat regular food, or scavenge around garbages etc. Might Ollie have some sort of indigestion problem if he was outdoors?

cat person · Nov 8, 2011

This is the diet I feed my cats: The F3 Savannah gets one cup of Evo dry daily, plus one mouse. My DLH which has medical issues, is fed half a cup of grain free dry food, such as: Origin, Nature's Balance, Taste of the Wild etc. Plus one feeding of canned food and dry food mixed daily. The wet foods in my rotation are: Wellness, Wellness Core, Daves'. and so on. My two DSH are fed unlimited dry food from the above list, plus two feedings of a wet and dry food mixture. They are indoor/outdoor cats, so they also eat birds, mice, and so on.

I also do not see any problem with giving some raw diet along with the dry food. I am a vet tech and do not see this as a problem. However, many veterinarians do not like the raw or whole prey diet.

ollieoxenfree · Nov 8, 2011

Hm, thanks! So it won't hurt if I buy chicken hearts today for Oliver and my mom's cat Mama?? I also need to go out to PetSmart for a good litter box and toothpaste sometime the week. Is there anything I should be looking for in labels?

cat person · Nov 8, 2011

OllieOxenfree said:
Hm, thanks! So it won't hurt if I buy chicken hearts today for Oliver and my mom's cat Mama?? I also need to go out to PetSmart for a good litter box and toothpaste sometime the week. Is there anything I should be looking for in labels?

I do not see it as harmful, but if the cat starts to vomit, has change in stools, or change in urination, I would stop the raw feeding. I am confused (nothing new

) by what you mean regarding "Is there anything I should be looking for in labels". Labels of: dry food, raw food, litter boxes, toothpaste, or something else.

I would be happy to give my opinion, just want to make sure I give it on the right thing

.

ollieoxenfree · Nov 8, 2011

Yes I should clarify.. In wet food and dry food- are there particular ingredients I should avoid? I already know I'm probably going to go holistic (at least for dry) but analysis wise, how much protein and fats and taurine and all that should be present??

An off question related to, is there any foods I should begin feeding now to help prevent problems later on?? (because I know with my dog I should have started him on glucosamine/chondriotin earlier than I did and he developed really bad arthritis)

Thanks for your patience!

I really appreciate the help!

cat person · Nov 8, 2011

OllieOxenfree said:
Yes I should clarify.. In wet food and dry food- are there particular ingredients I should avoid? I already know I'm probably going to go holistic (at least for dry) but analysis wise, how much protein and fats and taurine and all that should be present??

The only ingredients, I would try to avoid, are the filler ingredients in dry food. The correct term is, keep to a minimum, if you ask me, not avoid. Anyway, the ingredients are: Corn, Carrots, Wheat, Peas and so on. Or an even simpler way to remember it is, try to keep the amount of grains, vegetables, and fruit to a minimum. As far as, wet/canned food goes, just try to pick ones that have a lot of: meats (Chicken, Turkey Lamb), organ meats (Liver is the main one) and low to no fillers. Like grains, fruits, and vegetables.

The higher the protein value, without the ingredients listed above the better. As far as fat goes, that depends on the age and activity level of the cat, as a general rule of thumb. Most, commercially manufactured foods have the proper vitamin and mineral supplements in them already.

An off question related to, is there any foods I should begin feeding now to help prevent problems later on?? (because I know with my dog I should have started him on glucosamine/chondriotin earlier than I did and he developed really bad arthritis)

Not that I can think of, if you are very concerned, speak to a licensed veterinarian you trust!

Thanks for your patience! I really appreciate the help!

Your are welcome. Just remember, the "best" diet in the world, is no good if your cat will not eat it.

Please note, my answers are in bold font!

ollieoxenfree · Nov 8, 2011

Thanks again! Well I stopped into the grocery store earlier today and was reading the analysis on dry food to compare. The Holistic Blend is without all the ingredients you mention but only has protein of like 30-32% whereas there was a Purina One variety with 43%.. Would that be bad protein? Probably.. I don't intend on feeding these store brands I was just getting used to reading and comparing the ingredients and nutritional min/max's.

When I have a day off I'll head out to PetSmart and see what they carry in the way of holistic or close to it foods. I know they have some pretty knowledgable staff there for dogs, fish and reptiles but I'll go in and take their opinions with a grain of salt. (I was never keen on taking their advice wholly)

cat person · Nov 8, 2011

OllieOxenfree said:
Thanks again! Well I stopped into the grocery store earlier today and was reading the analysis on dry food to compare. The Holistic Blend is without all the ingredients you mention but only has protein of like 30-32% whereas there was a Purina One variety with 43%.. Would that be bad protein? Probably.. I don't intend on feeding these store brands I was just getting used to reading and comparing the ingredients and nutritional min/max's.

I would say, that if Holistic Blend has less of the fillers, I mentioned. Then that would be a better food. Or vise verse. I would say, first go by ingredients, then protein, fat, and so on. Again, that is just my personal opinion.

When I have a day off I'll head out to PetSmart and see what they carry in the way of holistic or close to it foods. I know they have some pretty knowledgable staff there for dogs, fish and reptiles but I'll go in and take their opinions with a grain of salt. (I was never keen on taking their advice wholly)

Do NOT take anyone's advice as wholly (Petsmart/petsore's, people on the forum, including me), unless it is your veterinarian or licensed animal nutritionist.

ollieoxenfree · Nov 8, 2011

well, I also am a little edgy taking a vet's nutritional advice. My dog's vet reccomended I buy their vet food for him and after 2 months he was still losing weight and not feeling well on it. I took him off that and he got better. But I hear what you're saying, I always do my own research and back up my findings usually.. Anyway, after browsing around I think I like the looks and reviews from Blue Wilderness. I'll see what kinds the PetSmart carries and begin switching him this month

sweetpea24 · Nov 8, 2011

Imho, if you want to feed the best food (other than raw), feed canned, preferably grain.-free. Stay away.from the.pouches as they are expensive and contain starch which cats cannot digest. Well their.bodies will process them but as their.bodies are not made to process them, their pancreas.has.to work harder. Dry food , though cheaper, will make your cat chronically dehydrated as cats will not compensate for the lack of moisture by drinking.

If you can afford it, feed all canned. I have heard that.Chicken Soup for the Cat Soul (not sure if that is the correct name) is reasonable in price. Same with Taste of the wild. Canned is more digestible and has no preservatives. Because it's 70% water, you wipl have to feed more. For my4.5 kg cats, I feed 1.5 cans per day, each can being 5.5 oz.

I know it can be expensive so if you have to feed half dry, I would suggest feeding go! Grain-free - it is high in protein and calories so you don't have to feed a lot to get good nutrition. You can feed 1/8 cup twice a day with 1/4 can of wet. Go! Is expensive but you feed half as much, and they do the buy 10 bags and get the 11th free deal.

Raw is a bit more difficult even if you buy pre-made. Some aren't complete and balanced. If you do homemade, it is more work to make it complete and balanced. But when you get the hang of it, you will see a difference.

I'm not a big fan of.dry food but I understand that it's more economical and if you are feeding a cat family, then it is what you have to feed.

ollieoxenfree · Nov 8, 2011

Thanks alpha! That was informative ^.^ I didn't realise there was any difference between canned wet and pouch wet! I'll feed off what I have already bought. I like the idea of feeding dry for the time being because it gives him something to snack on when he's hungry. The wet food is more or less just to substitute so he has a routine and looks forward to meal time. Plus, I would need to get my boyfriend on board with any diet change because I need him to take responsibility too. I don't want to be expected to take all the food buying chores just because I did the research, I need him to fully understand and accept any choices we want to make in Oliver's diet :/ Seems like an extra pet sometimes!

minka · Nov 8, 2011

OllieOxenfree said:
Thanks
I don't plan on keeping him on Friskies (it was the 'best' kind in the store 30 seconds from our house) so it had to do. I wish we were better prepared for Oliver then I would have picked up a food I knew was good because I had planned on looking it up before adopting!
Are chicken hearts okay as a treat? I think it would be gross but fun to feed. He comes from an indoor/outdoor lifestyle and I thought the hearts would benefit him?
I will look more into raw food but I would have to get my boyfriend on board. He knows I'm educated when it comes to my animals bc I'm always on the pet-specific forums (betta, bunny, cat, all pets) but I think it might take him a while to get used to a raw food diet (is it called BARF?) So for the time it will have to be dry/wet.
Dollarama sells Whiska's brand cat food for 50c a pouch. That's reasonable, and the fact that we can walk there from our house (or bike) is even better! I don't mind feeding him the pouches... Is there a more economical savvy wet food? I don't like the idea of refridgerating an open can for later... How does everyone else go about the cold can dilemma?

(*Thanks for the raw food article, I'll read it after posting this)

*edit* Okay, I understand now why raw food + dry food is no good. Is there any reason I shouldn't feed him a chicken heart once a week or so? Then it wouldn't have an effect on his acidity and the release of those 2 hormones. And just a question regarding this, cats who go outdoors and kill their own prey (birds, mice) eat parts of them and then go home to eat regular food, or scavenge around garbages etc. Might Ollie have some sort of indigestion problem if he was outdoors?

Yes, they are fine as a treat, I just wanted to inform you that the benefits would be reduced when also feeding high carb dry.

BARF is one of the numerous names for a kind of raw diet. Ground, whole and frankenprey are a few more.

As long as you are okay with spending $1.50 on pouches each day, then it's fine to feed them. Like I said, I fed a mix of Authority, Before Grain, By Nature, and Innova. Shopping sales and buying in bulk allow me to do this without spending more than 87cents a day. I also mix in Simply Nourish, Blue Buffalo and other brands to mix it up. I buy whatever is on sale. Cold food is easily cured by either: heating up the whole can in hot water, heating up the dish with hot water, adding hot water to the food, or microwaving the food for a few seconds.

I don't think he'll get any digestion Problems if he eats outdoor birds and such, he just won't be able to get as much out of the meat if his dry is high carb.

OllieOxenfree said:
Yes I should clarify.. In wet food and dry food- are there particular ingredients I should avoid? I already know I'm probably going to go holistic (at least for dry) but analysis wise, how much protein and fats and taurine and all that should be present??

An off question related to, is there any foods I should begin feeding now to help prevent problems later on?? (because I know with my dog I should have started him on glucosamine/chondriotin earlier than I did and he developed really bad arthritis)

Thanks for your patience! I really appreciate the help!

I avoid soy, corn, dyes and any type of gluten. Soy is bad for the thyroid and corn and gluten are just cheap cheap fillers. If they are in there, that tells you about the quality of the food. I try to keep added flavors (artificial, natural or animal digest), grains and by-products to a minimum.
I mostly concern myself with how much protein is in the food however. To keep it simple, if the food has 78% moisture and 9.5% or higher protein, you are good to go.

OllieOxenfree said:
Thanks again! Well I stopped into the grocery store earlier today and was reading the analysis on dry food to compare. The Holistic Blend is without all the ingredients you mention but only has protein of like 30-32% whereas there was a Purina One variety with 43%.. Would that be bad protein? Probably.. I don't intend on feeding these store brands I was just getting used to reading and comparing the ingredients and nutritional min/max's.
When I have a day off I'll head out to PetSmart and see what they carry in the way of holistic or close to it foods. I know they have some pretty knowledgable staff there for dogs, fish and reptiles but I'll go in and take their opinions with a grain of salt. (I was never keen on taking their advice wholly)

Do you think you could point out which food it was that was 43% protein? http://www.purinaone.com/Products/Cat.aspx I couldn't seem to find it, so I can't rate the ingredients.

OllieOxenfree said:
well, I also am a little edgy taking a vet's nutritional advice. My dog's vet reccomended I buy their vet food for him and after 2 months he was still losing weight and not feeling well on it. I took him off that and he got better. But I hear what you're saying, I always do my own research and back up my findings usually.. Anyway, after browsing around I think I like the looks and reviews from Blue Wilderness. I'll see what kinds the PetSmart carries and begin switching him this month

Keep in mind there is a difference between a vet and a licensed Feline Nutritionist. The later is the only one who really has the knowledge to make food recommendations.

OllieOxenfree said:
Thanks alpha! That was informative ^.^ I didn't realise there was any difference between canned wet and pouch wet! I'll feed off what I have already bought. I like the idea of feeding dry for the time being because it gives him something to snack on when he's hungry. The wet food is more or less just to substitute so he has a routine and looks forward to meal time. Plus, I would need to get my boyfriend on board with any diet change because I need him to take responsibility too. I don't want to be expected to take all the food buying chores just because I did the research, I need him to fully understand and accept any choices we want to make in Oliver's diet :/ Seems like an extra pet sometimes!

Lol, once you have foods picked out, you can always just write a list of the foods that are okay, that way he can't screw up.

crumbandharvey · Nov 8, 2011

OllieOxenfree said:
Thanks alpha! That was informative ^.^ I didn't realise there was any difference between canned wet and pouch wet!

I'm curious about this too. We do a blend of Before Grain Chicken for my dry, and then Wellness, AvoDerm, Before Grain, and Soulistic for wet. My boys LOVE the Wellness Healthy Indulgence and the Soulistic pouches... are there really harmful starches in these?

sweetpea24 · Nov 9, 2011

Cat Person said:
I do not see it as harmful, but if the cat starts to vomit, has change in stools, or change in urination, I would stop the raw feeding. I am confused (nothing new :lol3: ) by what you mean regarding "Is there anything I should be looking for in labels". Labels of: dry food, raw food, litter boxes, toothpaste, or something else.

I would be happy to give my opinion, just want to make sure I give it on the right thing :lol3: .

CrumbAndHarvey said:
I'm curious about this too. We do a blend of Before Grain Chicken for my dry, and then Wellness, AvoDerm, Before Grain, and Soulistic for wet. My boys LOVE the Wellness Healthy Indulgence and the Soulistic pouches... are there really harmful starches in these?

Searches in general, are not easily digested in the cat. The foods in pouches have gravy or some kind of sauce which needs a starch to thicken it. There are some canned food that have gravy which would contain starch as well. I only put that 'warning' out to make you aware that foods like the Wellness Healthy Indulgences may say grain-free but are not necessarily carb-free or low carb. Some foods, whether dry or wet, say grain-free but contain fruits and veggies which provide carbs. Mind you, the amount of fruit,.veggies or beans may be questionable as they are usually lower on the ingredients list.

Also remember that cats aren't herbivores so they don't need to eat constantly as some birds or rabbits do.

The boyfriend could be a problem..hmmm....you could put a glob of vaseline in all his underwear until he decides to take responsibility for feeding the kitties! Of course if writing it down doesn't't work.

ollieoxenfree · Nov 9, 2011

@Minka, thanks again! It's all a learning experience for me

I always grew up with cats but it's only now that I have responsibility of food and stuff. I want the best for my kitty

I only feed him 1 pouch in the morning- so it's like 50c a day in wet so far

The dollar store carries Whiska's and Friskies brand wet food. But if I find some economic value somewhere else I'll switch.

Oh, the bag I picked up was the kitten kind in the Purina 1... So I guess that was my mistake!!

oops! I think I will write up a list when I drag him to PetSmart with me

Vaseline in the drawers?!? That would be just too funny.. and , erm ... Messy! I'm sure we'll work something out, even if it means I pay for it with his card so I make sure I get the right kind!

minka · Nov 9, 2011

OllieOxenfree said:
@Minka, thanks again! It's all a learning experience for me I always grew up with cats but it's only now that I have responsibility of food and stuff. I want the best for my kitty I only feed him 1 pouch in the morning- so it's like 50c a day in wet so far The dollar store carries Whiska's and Friskies brand wet food. But if I find some economic value somewhere else I'll switch.
Oh, the bag I picked up was the kitten kind in the Purina 1... So I guess that was my mistake!! oops! I think I will write up a list when I drag him to PetSmart with me

Is it this one? http://www.purinaone.com/products/productdetails.aspx?productid=39568dc5-31c2-4596-bb94-8175838ba7c5
It does have a very good amount of protein, but in all the wrong ways: by-products, gluten, soy and brewer's rice. You probably can find something better for the same price.

Starches aren't any worse than grains or veggies, but like sweetpea said, just don't be tricked into buying a food that is grain free but has a ton of potato and other carb sources instead.

ollieoxenfree · Nov 9, 2011

Well I already stated I am not going with regular store brands like Purina 1. I just noted the 40% protein in the kitten variety and wondered why is all

I'll make sure to check for potato and other starches though! ^.^

ollieoxenfree · Nov 12, 2011

http://www.presidentschoice.ca/LCLOnline/products.jsp?type=details&catIds=41&productId=prod530127 this is the food I picked up to transition Oliver off crappy grain food. I know it has potatoes and fruits but it seems to be a better quality store brand. Plus I work at a Loblaws location and save 10% on my purchase.. I'd like to switch him to Blue Wilderness (or whatever band is blue with a picture of a lynx on it) but I'm slowly getting swallowed up in debt and priority sets my realism straight - vet comes first.

What do you guys think of PC Nutrition First?

Help with dry/wet food

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