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Jobs' New Bio

post #1 of 24
Thread Starter 
So Steve Jobs biography is going on sale next week, shortly after California is announcing a state holiday in his honor, Steve Jobs Day. And part of it strikes me as painfully ironic.

For those that follow the industry, Steve Jobs has been blatant about intellectual theft even until recently (the iPhone name, icon interface, touchscreen design, and other aspects were stolen from other companies primarily Cisco, Nokia, and HTC... remember the eerily similar HTC Touch or the LG Prada that released before the iPhone?).

He has even admitted it proudly:
http://gizmodo.com/5483914/steve-job...-artists-steal
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Jobs ~ 1996
"We have always been shameless about stealing great ideas.

Good Artists Copy, Great Artists Steal."
Yet in his bio he's said this about Google chairman Eric Schmidt "stealing":
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Jobs
"I'm willing to go thermonuclear war on this.

Our lawsuit is saying, 'Google you f***ing ripped off the iPhone, wholesale ripped us off. I will spend my last dying breath if I need to, and I will spend every penny of Apple's $40 billion in the bank, to right this wrong.

I'm going to destroy Android, because it's a stolen product."
And this is based off the idea that Android is a ripoff of iOS because it uses an icon interface, one that Steve Jobs himself "borrowed". Yet, he's also always been big on parroting that he's patenting everything, and using the largest corporate legal team to defend them (even for vague patents on products they have no plans to bring to market, stifling innovation).

http://news.cnet.com/8301-13579_3-20...all-bio-shows/

It may be unpopular, but I just don't understand why as soon as someone passes we have to pretend they were saints and glorify them even going so far as to mark a holiday in their name. Similar thing happened with Michael Jackson, where first most agreed he was kindof a ego-maniacal weirdo that surrounded himself with golden paintings and statues of himself and a childish playground mansion that ran out of a hospital with a bloody baby which he dangled precariously out of a window while suspected of pedophilia, but upon his passing he was just "The King".

IMO, people should be remembered as they were, the good and the bad.
post #2 of 24
I heard a discussion of this book on an NPR program, and two glaring things struck me, too.

1. Jobs padiddled around with alternate medicines for 9 months when he was diagnosed with pancreatic cancer, infuriating his family and friends and giving one of the most aggressive cancers a fatal hold on him.

2. He was very reluctant to go to the White House, finally went when the President personally invited him, and really ripped the President for his economic policies.

But I think we all realize that every person is a bundle of conflicts, and Jobs was no exception.

By the way, all you have to do is own an ipod to know that Jobs and Apple were absolute tyrants.
post #3 of 24
Thread Starter 
Definitely, and its silly to expect perfection from anyone, but with the holiday and my Mac friends more or less treating him like a deity got to be a bit much for me.

At least Bill Gates has been very involved in charity work (not that I would want a holiday for him either), whereas Steve Jobs never gave a penny except a little a long while back to promote vegetarianism (something he believed could even cure cancer). Founder of the Stanford Social Innovation Review in fact called Apple one of "America's Least Philanthropic Companies." Jobs had terminated all of Apple's long-standing corporate philanthropy programs within weeks after returning to Apple in 1997, citing the need to cut costs until profitability rebounded. But the programs have never been restored despite massive profitability, both personally and of the company. Especially sad were the rash of suicides at Foxconn plants where the Apple products were made in China, due to abhorrent conditions and feeling of hopelessness of those that felt trapped in the factories (where they permanently lived and left only on Sundays) which Steve Jobs could not have been ignorant of and is shameful considering the company has more cash stockpiles than the United States treasury.

Back to the original hypocrisy, here's what Andy Hertzfeld, one of the original computer scientists on the Apple Macintosh development team (although now working for Google), wrote about Steve and stealing ideas:

"If you tell him (Steve Jobs) a new idea, he'll usually tell you that he thinks it's stupid.

But then, if he actually likes it, exactly one week later, he'll come back to you and propose your idea to you, as if he thought of it."
post #4 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrblanche View Post
I heard a discussion of this book on an NPR program, and two glaring things struck me, too.

1. Jobs padiddled around with alternate medicines for 9 months when he was diagnosed with pancreatic cancer, infuriating his family and friends and giving one of the most aggressive cancers a fatal hold on him.
I'm not really seeing what's wrong with this, in and of itself- other than it being a rather stupid thing to do, it was his personal choice that he made in regards to his body and his health. I didn't hear the program and I can't find a transcript, though- do you remember the context this info was presented in?
post #5 of 24
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by orangeishcat View Post
I'm not really seeing what's wrong with this, in and of itself- other than it being a rather stupid thing to do, it was his personal choice that he made in regards to his body and his health. I didn't hear the program and I can't find a transcript, though- do you remember the context this info was presented in?
You are right, that is a personal thing, but some did argue that investors/stockholders had a right to know, and those that did know should not have been allowed to continue trading shares in secret. And at Stanford he did sell a fiction in a speech that simply wasn't true... but that is exactly what Steve Jobs was, a brilliant salesman that could sell anything, the way that Tiger Woods is a brilliant golfer, but beyond that far from perfect to be naming a holiday after. My coworker here for example not only changed his wallpaper to a black and white picture of Steve, put a framed picture of him at his cubicle, but also sent an email out to the whole department asking for those that wanted to meet at 6PM after work to celebrate him. Just doesn't make sense to me, as by most accounts he wasn't a nice or altruistic guy (heck, who lets their biological daughter be fed on welfare until court ordered to support her?) and by most accounts was rather stubborn, arrogant, and condescending... so hundreds of shrines around the world are a bit much.

http://money.cnn.com/2008/03/02/news...une/index4.htm

Quote:
Apple director Levinson, who has a Ph.D. in biochemistry, monitored the situation for the board. He and another director, Bill Campbell, tried to persuade Jobs to have the surgery. "There was genuine concern on the part of several board members that he may not have been doing the best thing for his health," says one insider. "But Steve is Steve. He can be pretty stubborn."

By the standards of medical science, it was an open-and-shut case: There was no serious alternative to surgery. "Surgery is the only treatment modality that can result in cure," Dr. Jeffrey Norton, chief of surgical oncology at Stanford, wrote in a 2006 medical journal article about this kind of pancreatic cancer. Dr. Roderich Schwarz, chairman of surgical oncology at the University of Texas Southwestern Medical Center in Dallas, who has performed the procedure more than 150 times (but who was not involved in Jobs' case), says that waiting more than a few weeks with this diagnosis "makes no sense because you don't know what the potential for growth or spread is." Schwarz says he knows of no evidence that diet can be helpful. "But the patient decides. If they believe an herbal diet can do miracles, they have to make the decision. Every once in a while you have somebody who decides something you wish they wouldn't."

Jobs put the procedure off for more than nine months, raising the thorny issue of disclosure. He told the board, and the board decided to say nothing. Palo Alto attorney Larry Sonsini, the company's longtime outside counsel, advised the directors that the CEO's right to privacy trumped any disclosure requirement as long as he could continue to perform his duties. A second outside lawyer agreed.

So Apple conducted business as usual, disclosing nothing and letting the tiny circle of insiders who knew about the situation continue to trade Apple shares.

It is impossible to know whether Jobs' decision to delay the procedure has increased his risk of a cancer recurrence in any way. In a newspaper interview, Norton estimated that 80% to 90% of patients with Jobs' condition survived at least ten years
post #6 of 24
I agree that it seems like when someone that's in the spot light for some reason or another, it seems like everyone wants to immortalize the person as a kind of a saint even if that person was no where near anything saintly. I always hate saying this out loud to someone, because I know a lot of people will say I'm a heartless you-know-what but I don't think we should we should get this worked up about people like this dying acting like the person was Jesus.
It was a tragedy that he died. I'm not saying that it wasn't. Anyone that dies before they're too old and/or feeble to move is a tragedy. That being said, you figure the electronics Jobs created is part of the problem with people not having a real life and being too attached to their tech. I'm not saying that I hate smart phones or computers. I know I'm guilty of using my phone and computer more than I should but glorifying someone for creating something that we could've gotten by without a little excessive. Of course I've always gone without a iphone, ipad, ipobd, and mac. I've never owned a mac or anything apple. I've messed with my mom's iphone a couple of times but honestly the UI is more complicated than my Droid or any android phone that I've used.

Jobs RIP because you died too early, not because of your "huge contribution" to society.
post #7 of 24
I heard also that Jobs had a pretty close relationship with Bill Clinton and advised him on the Monica Lewinsky affair--advice that Clinton did not follow, much to his chagrin pretty quickly.

I'm not finding the piece, either. It might have been embedded in something like Diane Rehms' Friday news roundup.
post #8 of 24
Jealousy is an ugly thing. It tends to bring out the worst in people.
post #9 of 24
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yosemite View Post
Jealousy is an ugly thing. It tends to bring out the worst in people.
Certainly, I am jealous of his wealth and success, who wouldn't be? I'd wager you'd probably enjoy having the money, success, and fame of George W Bush or Chris Brown.

Respect for the specific talents of a celebrity are one thing. But if you believe jealousy is the reason that some people think its silly to raise individuals like Justin Bieber or Steve Jobs to Sainthood or Jesus Christ levels of religious devotion to have candle vigils and name a holiday after, well, certainly everyone is entitled to their opinion. I won't be praying to any celebrity shrines in my own home though.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Celebrity_Worship_Syndrome

Interesting thing too that is developing is "brand identity", where people actually consider themselves part of what is in actuality merely a large for profit corporation, due to clever marketing.

http://articles.cnn.com/2011-05-19/t...ins?_s=PM:TECH
Quote:
For Apple fans, the brand triggers a reaction in the brain that's not unlike that of religious devotees, according to a BBC documentary series that cites neurological research.

The neuroscientists ran a magnetic resonance imaging (MRI) test on an Apple fanatic and discovered that images of the technology company's gadgets lit up the same parts of the brain as images of a deity do for religious people, the report says.
post #10 of 24
On a purely technical basis (a basis which has put people in jail in the past--ask Martha Stewart), if it can be shown that any insider knew of Jobs' illness and his non-treatment of it and traded any stock on that basis before the facts became public knowledge, that person has committed a crime.

If Jobs revealed any of that information to the officers or managers of the company and they failed to reveal it to investors, both they and Jobs committed crimes.
post #11 of 24
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrblanche View Post
On a purely technical basis (a basis which has put people in jail in the past--ask Martha Steward), if it can be shown that any insider knew of Jobs' illness and his non-treatment of it and traded any stock on that basis before the facts became public knowledge, that person has committed a crime.

If Jobs revealed any of that information to the officers or managers of the company and they failed to reveal it to investors, both they and Jobs committed crimes.
According to the CNN article, they admitted to knowing and trading. Two top dog lawyers said that as long as he remained in capacity to function, it wasn't illegal and privacy considerations could be defended in court against disclosure and insider trading legal concerns.
post #12 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ducman69 View Post
Certainly, I am jealous of his wealth and success, who wouldn't be? I'd wager you'd probably enjoy having the money, success, and fame of George W Bush or Chris Brown.

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Actually you would lose that wager for I have had success in my life, didn't and don't want any fame and have enough money to last me the rest of my life. I want for and ask for nothing. I am happy for others who have reached whatever goal they have had or whatever fame they strived for and for the wealth they have accumulated or earned (I don't much give a dang whether they got it by being "discovered" or whatever).

I've been incredibly blessed to have wonderful family, fantastic friends, moderate wealth and pretty decent health for my age. I don't want nor need more than that. Gosh, I've even had access to a Corvette and still don't understand why anyone would spend the money on one. I'd rather take the money and spend it on a good car, but hey, I don't identify with the kind of car I drive. I did have a roomate that would have dated Godzilla if he drove a Corvette though. She was a very deep person.
post #13 of 24
Thread Starter 
How very Christian... or zen Buddhist, whatever, heh. Point was that most can be jealous of someone's bigger boat, better body (Brad Pitt... nuff said), prettier spouse etc without holding it against them, and I would argue its perfectly natural and healthy.

That doesn't mean that anyone that thinks its silly to elevate someone to sainthood that was clearly FAR from a saint is just bitterly jealous as you imply.
post #14 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ducman69 View Post
How very Christian... or zen Buddhist, whatever, heh. Point was that most can be jealous of someone's bigger boat, better body (Brad Pitt... nuff said), prettier spouse etc without holding it against them, and I would argue its perfectly natural and healthy.

That doesn't mean that anyone that thinks its silly to elevate someone to sainthood that was clearly FAR from a saint is just bitterly jealous as you imply.
Not Buddhist or any of that, just know that jealousy over others' good fortunes doesn't make anyone look very nice. Not jealous of any boat, don't particularly care for Brad Pitt personally, etc. I also think I'm perfectly natural and healthy without the jealousy.

There are always people who cannot wait to put others down. I'm sure Steve Job was not angel nor was he perfect. Perhaps it would be good to accept folks warts and all instead of trying to always bring them down. Only petty people try to bring others down and usually it's to make themselves look good but it only makes them look bad IMO.
post #15 of 24
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yosemite View Post
Perhaps it would be good to accept folks warts and all instead of trying to always bring them down. Only petty people try to bring others down and usually it's to make themselves look good but it only makes them look bad IMO.
So you agree then that the candle vigils, shrines, and a holiday in his honor amongst other things are justified?

Don't you feel that glorification of Steve Jobs into hero like status is a disservice to the REAL heroes out there? Does anyone know who Dakota Meyer is?
post #16 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ducman69 View Post
So you agree then that the candle vigils, shrines, and a holiday in his honor amongst other things are justified?

Don't you feel that glorification of Steve Jobs into hero like status is a disservice to the REAL heroes out there? Does anyone know who Dakota Meyer is?
I've looked but cannot find where I said that I agreed with candle vigils, shrines, a holiday in his honor, glorification or any of those things you said above. I'm thinking that would be akin to worshipping false idols which is surely a sin according to Christians.

And no, I confess I have no idea who Dakota Meyer is and I can't say I'm particularly interested in finding out.

To keep with this thread, Steve Jobs did some great things and should be remembered for them. Nobody should be vilifying him nor treating him as a saint. He was a man who contributed greatly to our present world.
post #17 of 24
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yosemite View Post
I've looked but cannot find where I said that I agreed with candle vigils, shrines, a holiday in his honor, glorification or any of those things you said above.
So you agree that its nonsense... that was the only reason the "warts" were pointed out. If it weren't for the crazy amount of worship and the new California holiday, no one would bring any of it up. Make sense?
post #18 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ducman69 View Post
So you agree that its nonsense... that was the only reason the "warts" were pointed out. If it weren't for the crazy amount of worship and the new California holiday, no one would bring any of it up. Make sense?
Ummm no. I often disagree with most things you say and this is no exception. But hey, this is IMO and my opinion most often differs from yours - doesn't mean either of us is right or wrong - just .... different.
post #19 of 24
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yosemite View Post
But hey, this is IMO and my opinion most often differs from yours - doesn't mean either of us is right or wrong - just .... different.
I disagree...
post #20 of 24
Thread Starter 
It won't let me edit the post to add, so more hypocrisy has been revealed in his bio.

I'm not sure this will be huge a surprise to anyone, but Jobs talked smack on Intel for years...right up until the day before Apple switched to Intel processors.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Jobs
"There were two reasons we didn't go with them. One was that they [the company] are just really slow. They're like a steamship, not very flexible. We're used to going pretty fast. Second is that we just didn't want to teach them everything, which they could go and sell to our competitors."
http://news.cnet.com/8301-13924_3-20...-inflexibility

Those in the industry know this "reality distortion effect" started w/ the 68000. Motorola was falling ever further behind, and yet he complains that Intel is slow... And in true Steve Jobs fashion, rather than simply admit that he made a mistake, he switches to Power PC, and proceeds to grossly exaggerate the performance (a bogus single Photoshop benchmark that used a filter optimized for Power PC). As its clear that the performance gap has become so huge that even he can't dupe the public any longer, they FINALLY switch to Intel chips. But it was clever marketing, you have to give them that. Being on different hardware made it easier to sell some of the less technical on the "embellishments" of the truth though, since a regular consumer couldn't compare the machines 1:1. Same thing was done with the iPhone, where rather than call it the Samsung Cortex-A8 S5PC110 chip that it is and is in various other devices, it was called the Apple A4, unique in the world, when the A4 is merely Samsung's chip with a few features removed (IOW cheapened). And for one of the most inflexible companies in the world to call Intel of all people inflexible... wow, kettle black? So aggravating for technophiles.
post #21 of 24
I've heard many things about Jobs, most of them bad. That being said, I LOVE my Apple products. I have a MacBook, my kids all have Ipods of various types, and I just got the IPhone. Never a problem with any of them. In comparison, my desktop PC, which cost just as much as a Mac, is garbage. My daughters laptop is also crappy, (It's an HP) and that's almost brand new.

He was a lousy person. Ok. His company still makes the best products, IMO, out there. I can't wait to read the book, I have to respect a person who is that lousy, and says it out loud to the person writing a book about him.
post #22 of 24
Thread Starter 
Another interesting tidbit released is that Steve Jobs hated license plates.

There is a loophole in California state law that says you can't be fined for running without plates if the vehicle is less than six months old.

So, Steve Jobs would buy a brand new silver Mercedes SL55 AMG, around $155K IIRC, every six months.

And it wasn't so that no one could recognize him, as he would always get an identical vehicle every time and is even easier to spot as the only SL55 AMG, already a rare car, without license plates.

Meanwhile, the Chinese factory where the iPhone and iPad are made, were getting up to 11 suicides a year due to abhorrent working conditions and feeling of hopelessness.

Steve Jobs didn't intervene as their sole client, and their solution was to install safety nets around the entire building to catch their fall, despite 3500% profitability increase since April 2003. Aint no trickle-down economics here!
post #23 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by resqchick View Post
I've heard many things about Jobs, most of them bad. That being said, I LOVE my Apple products. I have a MacBook, my kids all have Ipods of various types, and I just got the IPhone. Never a problem with any of them. In comparison, my desktop PC, which cost just as much as a Mac, is garbage. My daughters laptop is also crappy, (It's an HP) and that's almost brand new.

He was a lousy person. Ok. His company still makes the best products, IMO, out there. I can't wait to read the book, I have to respect a person who is that lousy, and says it out loud to the person writing a book about him.
He was a genius. Often genius' are lousy people and bad husbands and fathers - Einstein, Frank Lloyd Wright, countless painters and authors - just seems to go with the territory.

I too LOVE Apple and Apple products and services. Hubby and I each have MacBook Pro, iPhones, iPod, and Apple Extreme router. Nothing has ever caused us a problem! It is wonderful to not worry about viruses! My last Dell laptop was crap. I would never again have a PC. Macs may cost more, but they are worth every penny. There is so much software included and the people in the store are always there to help you with any problem you may have. The support alone is worth the extra money.

I'm sad that Jobs is gone at such a young age. I'm sure he had much more to offer technology, and I hope those left will carry on his vision. RIP Steve.
post #24 of 24
Thread Starter 


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dusty's Mom View Post

He was a genius. Often genius' are lousy people and bad husbands and fathers - Einstein, Frank Lloyd Wright, countless painters and authors - just seems to go with the territory.


Is Tiger Woods a genius because he is beyond doubt one of if not the best golfer in the world?  Is Billy Mays a genius because he was able to market products on TV unlike anyone else?   Same for Michael Jackson or Shaquille O'Neal?  Brilliant at what they do, and artists in that respect, sure, but genius?   Shaq probably gets help having his shoes tied.   Are we sure its not a matter of perception like in this IMO sad survey:

 

Quote:
According to Eurogamer, the majority of the 1,000 people surveyed (26%) believe that Steve Jobs is the leading man who shaped video games. Meanwhile, Gabe Newell, the co-founder of Valve – one of the most influential companies in the industry – received only 16% of the votes. Shigeru Miyamoto, the creator of Mario – the most recognizable game character in the world – received only 7% of the votes. Oddly, Mark Zuckerberg, a guy who hasn’t done a darn thing for gaming (not directly, at least), received 3% of the votes.

What has Steve Jobs done for gaming?   Too. Much.  Kool-Aid.

 

So another release from Jobs biography is a rip on Bill Gates:

Quote:
"Bill is basically unimaginative and has never invented anything, which is why I think he's more comfortable now in philanthropy than technology. He just shamelessly ripped off other people's ideas."

 

While it is not wrong that Bill Gates has never personally invented anything, and instead has had a general vision for his company and managed a network of people that was able to transform computing on the planet with to this date over a 90% marketshare (pretty dominating), if one takes a step back and thinks about it... hold on... what did Steve Jobs ever invent?   The iPod?  Nope.   The iPhone?  Nope.  The iMac?  Nope.   Those ideas were all conceived by other people in the company and designed by several key industrial designers and software developers.   And this is again coming from Steve Jobs, that in his own words admitted that he steals other people's ideas, as well as first hand accounts from very high ranking employees in on even the first Mac design saying that Steve takes credit for his employee's work.

 

And if we're going to rip on Bill Gates, yes, he was no angel either.... but lets compare and contrast:

 

But who was it  that entered a pact to donate his riches after his passing has stepped down as CEO to devote himself entirely to charity work and improving the world?   Ste... oh, no, that was Bill Gates.   And who  vowed to use his $40 billion to crush Android and Google, disavowed parental responsibility until court ordered of his daughter and let her live off welfare, has been heralded by the New York Times as "America's least philanthropic company" since being head by Steve, and looked the other way as employees in his Apple iPhone/iPad factory were committing suicide in droves despite having accumulated massive personal wealth and more wealth for the company than the United States Treasury?   Oh, that was Steve Jobs.

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