Help needed with aggressive feral living under our house

Hi, we have two adopted (formerly stray) cats, a male and female. The male is young and quite territorial - a scrapper, but very sweet with us. We just recently (March) moved to a new rental house here in Fortuna, CA. Over the last few months I've noticed a large long haired black cat in the neighborhood, who seems very aggressive and wants to fight with all the other cats. He's had a couple of tussles with William, our cat. Tonight was the worst, on our roof. I fear that this cat is much larger and more aggressive than William, and I also fear that with all the fighting this other cat does, he (I assume it's a he) might have some disease like FIV, which he could give William through a bite or scratch.

Here's the kicker: Before today, I thought this cat was just "around the neighborhood", perhaps owned by someone. But I noticed that when I chase him, he has often seemed to disappear mysteriously in a passageway along one side of our house. Today I discovered that there is a way under our house in just that location - I think he's living under there. That would explain why he's around here so much, and also why he's fighting William - they have the same territory! Bad situation.

Now I don't want to hurt this other cat. I fear if we trap him (even if we could - hard to get near him) and take him to the shelter, he might be seen as "too feral", unadoptable, and they might put him down. I don't want that. But we can't leave him living under our house, after this fight today with William that seems obvious. They were really going at it on our flat roof. I can't keep our cats inside, they were adopted as adult outside cats (we adopted them from the street in two separate previous places where we were living) and they will go crazy if they don't have access to outdoors.

The only thing I can think of is to wait until I know that the black cat is outside, and then block off the hole under our house. So that raises the question: Would this be cruel to the black cat? I don't know how long he's been living under there. I don't know where he'd go if he couldn't find his way back in. Winter is not that cold around here (we are an hour south of the Oregon border, on the coast) but it can get pretty miserable. What I would like is for him to go somewhere else and set up a new territory there, but I don't want to put him at great risk. Can anyone who has experience of feral cats lend some advice here? What should we do about this situation?

Thanks!

Neil

I have no idea if he's neutered or not. I've spoken today with one of the local ladies who is involved with spaying and neutering programs, and she gave us some good advice (first, close off the under house access, then perhaps trap him to neuter and even see if anyone wants a mouser or barn cat to adopt).

If you mean "can we take care of this cat", no that would not be possible - he is very aggressive, the whole problem is that he attacks our two cats. The lady we spoke with today said that she can see if anyone would want this cat, sometimes they do, but if he really does fight with everybody then sometimes there's not a lot they can do. I want to avoid having him put down just because he's inconvenient to everybody - there is a certain magnificence in his "take on anybody and everybody" attitude that I respect. He embodies the wild cat, and I can't just wipe that out. Yes, I'm a big softie.

I'll block off the access first (making sure he's out first, of course), the lady said that wouldn't be inhumane. I'll make sure there aren't any kittens or anything else surprising under there as well. See if this encourages him to seek a different core territory. If not, then I'll trap him and see about getting him neutered, perhaps adopted, if not then re-release and see what happens next.

Thanks,

Neil

Yes, I'm very familiar with this advice, but it is completely unrealistic given our cats. You have to understand that they were adopted as adult strays, directly from the street. We have tried keeping them indoors before. Either they are able to go outside, or else they go crazy (and drive me insane as well - I work at home). I do hope this discussion won't turn into portraying me as some kind of Bad Person for allowing these cats outside under these circumstances - just please take my word for it, they cannot be kept indoors.

I will be trying to block off access to the crawlspace under our house tomorrow, if I can make sure that the cat is absent at the time. I will work to improve this situation for all concerned, even if it means trapping the black cat and attempting to adopt or relocate him to a more suitable territory.

Thanks,

Neil

Thanks for the advice. I agree, it would probably be good to try to catch the cat and get him neutered (if applicable). If it means he might not fight with the other cats in the neighborhood quite as much, then that would only be a good thing - one of my current fears is that since he fights with so many cats, the chances of him catching a disease (and spreading it) increases, which puts my cats at risk too. I will arrange to get one of the live traps from the local lady who deals with this type of thing. I may also purchase one of those night vision wireless web cams which I've seen in the past, so I can monitor the crawl space under our house to see if he is actually going in there - I haven't seen this cat since the fight with William, so I don't really know what's going on now. From my previous glimpses of the fights, it seemed like the black cat was the dominant one, and I saw quite a few tufts of William's white fur on the roof when I broke up the latest fight (I couldn't find any wounds on him, thankfully, though I did pick a claw out from his neck area - it looked like what you find next to the scratch post, I assume it was from the black cat). When I've seen them fighting, William tends to be crouching down, with the black cat standing over him, so I don't know if that means the black cat is dominant, but it certainly looks like it. That said, when I went up on the roof, the black cat took off and William went running right after him (and they continued their fight on the other side of the house before I arrived to break it up again). They were really going at it this time, it was no casual encounter.

One good thing is that William is extremely vocal - he tends to yowl whenever another male cat is nearby, and it's very distinctive, so I often get a chance to break up pending confrontations before they turn into real fights. William is a really great little cat - fantastic feisty spirit, but also loves to cuddle. I'd hate to see anything happen to him.

I went under the house yesterday, but I wasn't able to explore effectively, since our house is on a hill and so the crawl space gets very tight very quickly. You'd need to really be into spelunking to get properly in there, and I'm not. So before blocking off the hole, I need to get some better idea of whether he's in there or not, how often he comes and goes, etc. Then maybe I'll put the cage in the crawlspace with some food and see if we can catch him - but apparently we have to do this with proper prior preparation, because an appointment needs to be made ahead of time with the vet.

Heck, I don't even really know if this is someone's cat yet. I just assume he's been going under our house. Maybe he doesn't actually live there. There is a lot about this situation I don't know yet - the secret lives of cats are very, well, secret. If he's a tom, then I believe they tend to roam a lot, so maybe he is somewhere else on his rounds now. He does seem to go away for periods and then reappear. Who knows.

Anyway, thanks again - trapping and neutering is on the table, as is closing off the hole to our crawlspace, but I want to do it with all due consideration and caution. While I do think it's important to get this resolved quickly to lessen risk to our cats, I also want to make sure I'm not jumping to any incorrect conclusions with the black cat - I want this to turn out well for him too.

Neil

p.s. Couple of pics of William The Brave...

Thanks again for the tips. I mentioned the appointment simply because that's what the cat lady who deals with strays told me. I guess she deals with so many that she has to have a routine with her vet. I use a different one, I'll give them a call and see how they feel about me just showing up with this guy.

We do have a little experience with traps - William was a stray in the neighborhood of the last house where we were living, in Eureka CA (we're now in nearby Fortuna). I saw him around, and actually chased him off a couple of times because he was hassling our first cat, Headbutt. Then one day my wife noticed that he was limping severely, and we watched him over the next few days, the limp just got worse, and he seemed to be going downhill. It's at that point we realized he must be a stray (up to that point we just assumed he was someone's cat). But we couldn't get near him. So I rented a trap, and put tuna fish inside, and about five minutes after I put it out, he was in there. Poor guy must have been starving. He wasn't happy AT ALL. I was afraid he'd hurt himself. I took him into the garage, since it was a Sunday and the vet was closed (we didn't think we'd catch him so quickly). I brought in some wet food, opened the door to the trap, thinking he'd go crazy or something, but he just came out, sniffed me, and then went to town on the food - he finished two large cans. He was really hungry, his injury must have been preventing him from hunting. We got him to the vet next day, and they said it was a bite, some crushed bones in his foot, and cellulitis was setting in. He was probably on the way out. They fixed him up, gave him antibiotics and told us we had to keep him inside for two weeks. So I put him in the garage, and bought a couple of large fleece blankets to put on the floor, and moved in with him. I just lay around and fed him and at first he hid under a table, but then slowly came out and lay with me, and he turned out to be a real sweetie. He bonded with me pretty hard in there, and when we eventually let him out, he didn't run away, but evidently decided that this was now his place. He now clearly regards me as Best Human Evar and follows me around everywhere (my wife says he walks around meowing plaintively when I'm not here - makes it kind of hard to go anywhere). He and Headbutt didn't really see eye to eye for a long time, they still have their conflicts, but it's been getting better. For example I thought it was very cute the other day, when something scary was happening outside, I looked over and they were both sitting very close to each other, which normally never happens. So there is hope. Now I just need to keep both of these cats alive and free of disease, and unfortunately that probably means messing with this black cat... I don't want to, but it seems necessary. I'll try to be as careful as possible.

Neil

p.s. Headbutt, our First Cat

Quick question for anybody living in the USA: Which live trap would you recommend for cat-size animals? I see that Amazon seems to be flooded with traps by Havahart, and as usual the reviews are very mixed, with some people saying it's great, and some saying it's trash that breaks after the first use, has the release too close to the animal (so you risk getting bitten or scratched), or flimsy plates that the animal tears up, or the canny raccoon steps right over the plate etc etc. Can anyone give me a recommendation for a GOOD live trap which will last, works well, won't hurt the animal, and isn't cheap junk? I figure if I buy one of these (which I am inclined to do, it will be useful to have around) then I don't want to have to buy another one soon.

I'm looking at this one, for example - any good? I'm willing to pay more for something better, if it really is better.

http://www.amazon.com/Havahart-1079-...dp/B00004RAMT/

Initial use will obviously be for this large stray tom who has been terrorizing my neighborhood (but I haven't seen since the fight with William).

Thanks!

Neil

Great, thanks - just doing a sanity check.

I just ordered the 1079 Havahart model I linked to above. With Amazon Prime one day shipping ($3.99) it should be here tomorrow. I looked at the two door ones, but they looked very long. The one we got previously from the rental place was one door, and it seemed to work just fine. We don't generally trap raccoons, they are welcome to live around us (the cats and raccoons seem to avoid each other successfully).

I'm also looking at security cameras that might help me get a better picture of what's going on around the hole into our crawlspace, e.g.

http://www.amazon.com/Loftek-Nexus-5...dp/B004Y9OPC2/

I need to make sure that it's not also being used by our little possum (who comes around regularly) or the raccoon etc. I don't want to block anybody out of their lair without good cause! (raccoons and possums don't bother us at all).

I got a big surprise last night: It was around midnight, and I had the front door open, with just the bug net to keep insects out. William was out somewhere doing his patrol. I was working at my desk. Suddenly I saw in the corner of my eye a dark form coming down from the kitchen into the living room. At first I thought it must just be Headbutt, but then I looked, and it was a large, dark gray, long haired cat that I've frequently seen in the neighborhood! I was astounded - he must have figured out the net in the front door (it splits down the middle, and our cats have had to learn how to kind of nose their way through it), come all the way into the house, into the kitchen no less, then rather calmly (but quickly) made his way back out the front door when I got up. Headbutt was lying on the couch - I don't know if she even noticed. Bizarre. I've never had a strange cat just come into the house like that. And I guess it was a night for wildlife, because when I checked again a few minutes later, the possum was down on the front steps, looking up at me uncertainly. Very cool.

Obviously I'll need to keep a closer eye on the front door when it's opened...

We already have a SureFlap electronic flap on one of the back doors, which is useful because it works off the Avid microchip that both our cats already have. It will only open for them! It's a British company, and I can recommend SureFlap - but I wish they made a larger model, because as it is Headbutt (who is way overweight now, 17 lbs, a compulsive overeater) can't fit through it easily, so she just ignores it now in favor of the medium sized PetSafe flap we have in the other back door. I think SureFlap is trying to develop a larger version, I hope they do it soon - I'd like to be able to leave the house and know that our cats can get out if they have to, without anybody else coming in! We close the PetSafe every night with the cover, ever since a Raccoon came in our last house (we named him Trick, since he came to visit on Halloween night).

I never knew living with animals would be so... interactive. I don't mind.

Neil

This fellow that came in our house wasn't the black cat that William fought with - it was a different one, and I think I've seen the black cat fighting him too (and chasing him clear across the street, poor thing). Actually, I think this may also be the cat that William encountered the very first time we let him out of the back door and into the yard - I heard a commotion, and when I went out William and this gray cat were facing each other, and William had a big tuft of gray hair in his mouth. I think WIlliam made his point, because I haven't seen any more fights with him - the black cat is the one who seems to be William's nemesis at the moment. And I haven't seen him around much since the last big fight on our roof. So maybe William made his point again? I don't know.

We have quite a few cats in our neighborhood, and I am starting to think that cat politics is a bit more complicated than we perhaps give them credit. For example last night I went outside because I knew William was out there, and I wanted to check the area to see if anybody else was around. I heard a "mew" from underneath one of the cars - that was a black cat. There was another black cat (maybe the aggressive one, but couldn't be sure) across the road, just sitting there calmly watching me. And further down the lane there was yet another, just sitting around. I honestly don't know if William was even aware of them, he was more intent on investigating something in a bush near the front of our house. It was quite bizarre - I've often come across a collection of cats who seem to be just sitting around having a cat conference.

We have the trap, but I haven't seen the black cat around the house since the fight. We may have seen him yesterday, but I wasn't sure (there are a bunch of black cats around here - maybe this guy has been, um, active with the ladies?). My credit card bill is starting to complain a bit, so I'm going to have to delay the purchase of the security camera I would like (for monitoring the hole into our crawlspace to see who goes in there). The Havahart 1079 trap looks fine, if the situation looks like it's continuing to deteriorate then at least I have it around. For now I'm kind of interested to see how these cats interact with each other - it's obvious now that the black cat is not always around, or at least if he is then he obviously seems to be finding ways to avoid William. I do think there's more to their interactions than meets the eye...

Neil

One quick question about this trap (regular Havahart 1079): Looking at it more closely, it really seems like when the door slams shut, it could trap someone's tail. I mean, it's right in the place where the tail will be when the animal enters the trap and steps on the plate. Does this ever happen?

Thanks. Well, stage one is now complete - I just had to break up a fight between William and the black cat in the crawlspace under the house. Afterwards, I saw the black cat going up toward the back of our yard, so I took the opportunity to block off all the holes leading into the space. I'll see if this does anything to make him want to move on - if not, then the trap is next. Just taking it step by step.