Help needed with aggressive feral living under our house

Hi, we have two adopted (formerly stray) cats, a male and female. The male is young and quite territorial - a scrapper, but very sweet with us. We just recently (March) moved to a new rental house here in Fortuna, CA. Over the last few months I've noticed a large long haired black cat in the neighborhood, who seems very aggressive and wants to fight with all the other cats. He's had a couple of tussles with William, our cat. Tonight was the worst, on our roof. I fear that this cat is much larger and more aggressive than William, and I also fear that with all the fighting this other cat does, he (I assume it's a he) might have some disease like FIV, which he could give William through a bite or scratch.

Here's the kicker: Before today, I thought this cat was just "around the neighborhood", perhaps owned by someone. But I noticed that when I chase him, he has often seemed to disappear mysteriously in a passageway along one side of our house. Today I discovered that there is a way under our house in just that location - I think he's living under there. That would explain why he's around here so much, and also why he's fighting William - they have the same territory! Bad situation.

Now I don't want to hurt this other cat. I fear if we trap him (even if we could - hard to get near him) and take him to the shelter, he might be seen as "too feral", unadoptable, and they might put him down. I don't want that. But we can't leave him living under our house, after this fight today with William that seems obvious. They were really going at it on our flat roof. I can't keep our cats inside, they were adopted as adult outside cats (we adopted them from the street in two separate previous places where we were living) and they will go crazy if they don't have access to outdoors.

The only thing I can think of is to wait until I know that the black cat is outside, and then block off the hole under our house. So that raises the question: Would this be cruel to the black cat? I don't know how long he's been living under there. I don't know where he'd go if he couldn't find his way back in. Winter is not that cold around here (we are an hour south of the Oregon border, on the coast) but it can get pretty miserable. What I would like is for him to go somewhere else and set up a new territory there, but I don't want to put him at great risk. Can anyone who has experience of feral cats lend some advice here? What should we do about this situation?

Thanks!

Neil

Originally Posted by neilgunton

I fear if we trap him (even if we could - hard to get near him)

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Why, the trick with trapping is you dont need to get near.

Is he neutered? Neutering may help some for the territorial behaviour. Although it is no sure rule: they may still defend their own core territory.

I agree with you most shelters arent interested in aggressive, feral cats. although some do have some fostering possibilities.
Can you foster? perhaps with cooperation of some shelter??

What you need, is probably contact with some rescue group... Who are used to work with ferales.

A couple of ideas. I hope other ideas will come.


Good luck!

Originally Posted by StefanZ

Is he neutered? Neutering may help some for the territorial behaviour. Although it is no sure rule: they may still defend their own core territory.

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I have no idea if he's neutered or not. I've spoken today with one of the local ladies who is involved with spaying and neutering programs, and she gave us some good advice (first, close off the under house access, then perhaps trap him to neuter and even see if anyone wants a mouser or barn cat to adopt).

Can you foster? perhaps with cooperation of some shelter??

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If you mean "can we take care of this cat", no that would not be possible - he is very aggressive, the whole problem is that he attacks our two cats. The lady we spoke with today said that she can see if anyone would want this cat, sometimes they do, but if he really does fight with everybody then sometimes there's not a lot they can do. I want to avoid having him put down just because he's inconvenient to everybody - there is a certain magnificence in his "take on anybody and everybody" attitude that I respect. He embodies the wild cat, and I can't just wipe that out. Yes, I'm a big softie.

I'll block off the access first (making sure he's out first, of course), the lady said that wouldn't be inhumane. I'll make sure there aren't any kittens or anything else surprising under there as well. See if this encourages him to seek a different core territory. If not, then I'll trap him and see about getting him neutered, perhaps adopted, if not then re-release and see what happens next.

Thanks,

Neil

If his territory is on your property, the only way he is going to leave is if your cat injures him enough to scare him away.. And that puts a huge risk on your cat.

Worse than FIV, he could have FelV, he could contract rabies in the future.. Who knows! As much as your cats love the outside, while this cat is around, you can't let them out. What if the other cat wins? What if he scares your cats away?

Originally Posted by Minka

As much as your cats love the outside, while this cat is around, you can't let them out. What if the other cat wins? What if he scares your cats away?

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Yes, I'm very familiar with this advice, but it is completely unrealistic given our cats. You have to understand that they were adopted as adult strays, directly from the street. We have tried keeping them indoors before. Either they are able to go outside, or else they go crazy (and drive me insane as well - I work at home). I do hope this discussion won't turn into portraying me as some kind of Bad Person for allowing these cats outside under these circumstances - just please take my word for it, they cannot be kept indoors.

I will be trying to block off access to the crawlspace under our house tomorrow, if I can make sure that the cat is absent at the time. I will work to improve this situation for all concerned, even if it means trapping the black cat and attempting to adopt or relocate him to a more suitable territory.

Thanks,

Neil

I think your plans are very sound.

Please, proceed as skissed.

His aggressivity to other MAY be just defending his territory. He is prob not neutered, but not sure.
Try to neuter if he isnt, it will make his life easier. He will be easier to adopt by people, and if not, he will be easier accepted to female colonies.

My neigbours resident was, is often in cat fights. Or at least, shrieking and screaming at other cats. Why she was so aggressive? Her pal, the other resident, wasnt. So it dawned on me. It was not she was excessively aggressive, she merely defended her core territory, just 10 yards around their house. She doesnt never fight at other places.

And yet, we could witness a wonder some half a year back. The neigbours adopted a homeless, sick cat who did come to them. Prob abandoned.
Vet, medicines, neutering, etc...
This is no big wonder, they are helpsome, nice people, and the daughter in the house is very animal friendly.
The wonder was, this super defensive resident cat did allowed the newcomer in, never attacking it.
It took a couple of months before they got pals. But she did allowed him in, tolerated him, and did never trouble him...

So, even an aggressive cat can have a good heart somewhere...


Tx for caring,

Good luck!


ps. You ARE discussing what if you do adopt him.
After neutering it will be easier when the hormones are gone. In home, he will be on theirs territory, and yours... so he will be submissive.
The difficulty is, if they all are allowed to go out, he will be back in his old territory, and thus - again defend it - perhaps even as neutered. Like the girl in my story.

So, you CAN probably manage it, taking it stepwise. But I do agree it will be easier if somebody living somewhere else, does the fostering and adoption. Try with this, and
let yourelf will be the last possiblility.

I would definitely trap this cat - as Stefan points out, with a humane trap, it's best if you're NOT near the trap LOL. I expect he's this aggressive because he's intact.

One of the most aggressive feral cats we'd ever seen scared away an ENTIRE cat colony inside of two days (about 10 cats). It took them three days after we trapped him to come back for regular meals as they had been - he was THAT aggressive.

We trapped him, took him to the vet, and couldn't figure out what to do, because we couldn't release him back outside, he was so aggressive. We live in an RV, and at the time we had 7 other cats. We rented a trailer and put it on the site next to us, and released him in there until we could figure out what to do.

Well, he calmed down... to the point that one month later we started bringing him over here for short periods of time, slowly increasing them, and then after one month, he never went back to "his" trailer. He's one of the sweetest kitties we have, and he has hour-long mutual grooming sessions with one of our other cats.

I know this isn't practical for you, nor am I suggesting it. I am merely pointing out the VAST difference in personality between intact and neutered. It may be that simply neutering him will solve the problem, and he can continue to live in "his" territory without you fearing for your cats.

Great advice! Most of us here that have dealt with "feral's" have learned that once they are neutered, give them a few weeks, and they become much, much more mellow and laid-back because the raging hormones are all gone. The only thing left is the habitual mental tomcat behavior. But even that will go away as the cat realizes that he doesn't really have the "drive" anymore and that it takes too much energy away from him. Self-preservation kicks in over the need to breed . I think you do need to trap and get this cat neutered. Much luck to you and this kitty!! He will be a much more happy/healthy boy if you can get him sterilized.

Thanks for the advice. I agree, it would probably be good to try to catch the cat and get him neutered (if applicable). If it means he might not fight with the other cats in the neighborhood quite as much, then that would only be a good thing - one of my current fears is that since he fights with so many cats, the chances of him catching a disease (and spreading it) increases, which puts my cats at risk too. I will arrange to get one of the live traps from the local lady who deals with this type of thing. I may also purchase one of those night vision wireless web cams which I've seen in the past, so I can monitor the crawl space under our house to see if he is actually going in there - I haven't seen this cat since the fight with William, so I don't really know what's going on now. From my previous glimpses of the fights, it seemed like the black cat was the dominant one, and I saw quite a few tufts of William's white fur on the roof when I broke up the latest fight (I couldn't find any wounds on him, thankfully, though I did pick a claw out from his neck area - it looked like what you find next to the scratch post, I assume it was from the black cat). When I've seen them fighting, William tends to be crouching down, with the black cat standing over him, so I don't know if that means the black cat is dominant, but it certainly looks like it. That said, when I went up on the roof, the black cat took off and William went running right after him (and they continued their fight on the other side of the house before I arrived to break it up again). They were really going at it this time, it was no casual encounter.

One good thing is that William is extremely vocal - he tends to yowl whenever another male cat is nearby, and it's very distinctive, so I often get a chance to break up pending confrontations before they turn into real fights. William is a really great little cat - fantastic feisty spirit, but also loves to cuddle. I'd hate to see anything happen to him.

I went under the house yesterday, but I wasn't able to explore effectively, since our house is on a hill and so the crawl space gets very tight very quickly. You'd need to really be into spelunking to get properly in there, and I'm not. So before blocking off the hole, I need to get some better idea of whether he's in there or not, how often he comes and goes, etc. Then maybe I'll put the cage in the crawlspace with some food and see if we can catch him - but apparently we have to do this with proper prior preparation, because an appointment needs to be made ahead of time with the vet.

Heck, I don't even really know if this is someone's cat yet. I just assume he's been going under our house. Maybe he doesn't actually live there. There is a lot about this situation I don't know yet - the secret lives of cats are very, well, secret. If he's a tom, then I believe they tend to roam a lot, so maybe he is somewhere else on his rounds now. He does seem to go away for periods and then reappear. Who knows.

Anyway, thanks again - trapping and neutering is on the table, as is closing off the hole to our crawlspace, but I want to do it with all due consideration and caution. While I do think it's important to get this resolved quickly to lessen risk to our cats, I also want to make sure I'm not jumping to any incorrect conclusions with the black cat - I want this to turn out well for him too.

Neil

p.s. Couple of pics of William The Brave...

Originally Posted by neilgunton

an appointment needs to be made ahead of time with the vet.

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Ask the vet beforehand, how much forewarning he does need. Many vets understand the situation, and takes such vet check and spaying quickly, more or less when they come.

Remember, you doesnt need to trap him just before you go to the vet.
You can trap him even 24 hours before. As feral, he is used to sometimes hide somewhere and just lie still.
As long you put this trap with him in a nonstressing place, perhaps with something on the trap, so it is nice and cozy in there... Like a safe hide.

Good luck!

Oh William IS a handsome boy, isn't he?

I think the webcam is a GREAT idea! Given he disappears for a while, I'd say either you have a tom cat making his rounds or a pet that returns home sometimes. Either way, I'd be VERY surprised to learn he's already been neutered. Possible, but IMO not probable. Next time you see him, you'll be on the lookout though, so you may be able to find out.

Personally, our theory is, if the cat is on our property, it's getting sterilized. It's not roaming because it's a purebred.

And yes, do have a chat with the vet! Our vet lets us just drop them off, trap and all. They get to them when they get to them, they don't charge us boarding. They call us the day they do it, and we go pick them up. It's usually the next day, but not always.

But again, Stefan's right. As most places do require an appointment, go ahead and trap the day/night before. Covering with a light blanket leaving one (or both) ends uncovered works just fine. In fact, even if you're taking him right to the vet, best to cover the trap as soon as kitty is trapped, and during transport. It seems to have a very calming effect - kind of like if they can't see they're behind wires, it's not as traumatic.

We can certainly help with trapping tips (quick ones: lay cardboard or newspaper down over the wires almost up to the trip plate, but ending far enough away he has to stand on the trip plate to get to the food; use a small paper plate pushed all the way back (so he doesn't hurt himself on something ceramic or stainless steel), and use KFC, no skin or bones LOL. They can't resist it). But apart from that, put something plastic and protective down over your car or truck seat or floor. Sometimes they're so scared they pee, poop, or vomit. Or all of them.

for wanting things to work out for this guy if possible. Of course you have to worry about your kitties first.

Thanks again for the tips. I mentioned the appointment simply because that's what the cat lady who deals with strays told me. I guess she deals with so many that she has to have a routine with her vet. I use a different one, I'll give them a call and see how they feel about me just showing up with this guy.

We do have a little experience with traps - William was a stray in the neighborhood of the last house where we were living, in Eureka CA (we're now in nearby Fortuna). I saw him around, and actually chased him off a couple of times because he was hassling our first cat, Headbutt. Then one day my wife noticed that he was limping severely, and we watched him over the next few days, the limp just got worse, and he seemed to be going downhill. It's at that point we realized he must be a stray (up to that point we just assumed he was someone's cat). But we couldn't get near him. So I rented a trap, and put tuna fish inside, and about five minutes after I put it out, he was in there. Poor guy must have been starving. He wasn't happy AT ALL. I was afraid he'd hurt himself. I took him into the garage, since it was a Sunday and the vet was closed (we didn't think we'd catch him so quickly). I brought in some wet food, opened the door to the trap, thinking he'd go crazy or something, but he just came out, sniffed me, and then went to town on the food - he finished two large cans. He was really hungry, his injury must have been preventing him from hunting. We got him to the vet next day, and they said it was a bite, some crushed bones in his foot, and cellulitis was setting in. He was probably on the way out. They fixed him up, gave him antibiotics and told us we had to keep him inside for two weeks. So I put him in the garage, and bought a couple of large fleece blankets to put on the floor, and moved in with him. I just lay around and fed him and at first he hid under a table, but then slowly came out and lay with me, and he turned out to be a real sweetie. He bonded with me pretty hard in there, and when we eventually let him out, he didn't run away, but evidently decided that this was now his place. He now clearly regards me as Best Human Evar and follows me around everywhere (my wife says he walks around meowing plaintively when I'm not here - makes it kind of hard to go anywhere). He and Headbutt didn't really see eye to eye for a long time, they still have their conflicts, but it's been getting better. For example I thought it was very cute the other day, when something scary was happening outside, I looked over and they were both sitting very close to each other, which normally never happens. So there is hope. Now I just need to keep both of these cats alive and free of disease, and unfortunately that probably means messing with this black cat... I don't want to, but it seems necessary. I'll try to be as careful as possible.

Neil

p.s. Headbutt, our First Cat

OMG she has the CUTEST face!!!!!!!!!!!! (And I love her name LOL).

Yup, cats are like that. Our first cat was a stray that adopted us. She was raiding the garbage, and DH wanted to do something about it. I suggested we feed her. He hated cats but figured it was the lesser of two evils.

Well, you won't find a bigger cat lover and feral cat advocate out there than Gary at this point (equals, maybe LOL). 8 indoor-only feral cat rescues at this point, and what can I say? We rented Chumley is own trailer.

You're a love for rescuing - and moving into the garage with William. I'm sure you'll figure out what to do with this big black boy to have it work out for all.

OH MY are your cats SOOOOOOO cute ! I wish you the best of luck with the black tomcat . and a successful trapping!!!!!

Quick question for anybody living in the USA: Which live trap would you recommend for cat-size animals? I see that Amazon seems to be flooded with traps by Havahart, and as usual the reviews are very mixed, with some people saying it's great, and some saying it's trash that breaks after the first use, has the release too close to the animal (so you risk getting bitten or scratched), or flimsy plates that the animal tears up, or the canny raccoon steps right over the plate etc etc. Can anyone give me a recommendation for a GOOD live trap which will last, works well, won't hurt the animal, and isn't cheap junk? I figure if I buy one of these (which I am inclined to do, it will be useful to have around) then I don't want to have to buy another one soon.

I'm looking at this one, for example - any good? I'm willing to pay more for something better, if it really is better.

http://www.amazon.com/Havahart-1079-...dp/B00004RAMT/

Initial use will obviously be for this large stray tom who has been terrorizing my neighborhood (but I haven't seen since the fight with William).

Thanks!

Neil

I have never heard anything bad about Havahart's. You have to get THE Havahart and not a copy. A copy is flimsy and no good. I have seen them. Most TNR orgs. solely use Havahart traps and they work for many years. I have a large and a small and have never had any trouble with them not working. The only time I did have a problem was from one that was pretty rusty and old (borrowed from a TNR org.) and the trip plate would not trip with a small cat. We put that trap to rest . The slats are small enough that a cat cannot scratch you through the bars either. Wear gloves if you are worried about that. Havahart's are my recommendation.

Great, thanks - just doing a sanity check.

Just seconding the recommendation. We actually bought a folding Haveahart, because of the whole RV thing. It's been sturdy through four trapping seasons (two years). We live in a really rural area, and trapping possums and raccoons is pretty normal for us. No one's been bitten releasing them.

However, if you are concerned about that possibility, you can spend more, and get a trap that releases at both ends. MUCH more expensive, but then if you trap a big possum or raccoon (and you wonder why they squeeze into the trap!), they don't have to back out of the trap - they can be released to just run forward.

Just an FYI - with ANY trap you sometimes have to work with the sensitivity of the trip plate.

I just ordered the 1079 Havahart model I linked to above. With Amazon Prime one day shipping ($3.99) it should be here tomorrow. I looked at the two door ones, but they looked very long. The one we got previously from the rental place was one door, and it seemed to work just fine. We don't generally trap raccoons, they are welcome to live around us (the cats and raccoons seem to avoid each other successfully).

I'm also looking at security cameras that might help me get a better picture of what's going on around the hole into our crawlspace, e.g.

http://www.amazon.com/Loftek-Nexus-5...dp/B004Y9OPC2/

I need to make sure that it's not also being used by our little possum (who comes around regularly) or the raccoon etc. I don't want to block anybody out of their lair without good cause! (raccoons and possums don't bother us at all).

I got a big surprise last night: It was around midnight, and I had the front door open, with just the bug net to keep insects out. William was out somewhere doing his patrol. I was working at my desk. Suddenly I saw in the corner of my eye a dark form coming down from the kitchen into the living room. At first I thought it must just be Headbutt, but then I looked, and it was a large, dark gray, long haired cat that I've frequently seen in the neighborhood! I was astounded - he must have figured out the net in the front door (it splits down the middle, and our cats have had to learn how to kind of nose their way through it), come all the way into the house, into the kitchen no less, then rather calmly (but quickly) made his way back out the front door when I got up. Headbutt was lying on the couch - I don't know if she even noticed. Bizarre. I've never had a strange cat just come into the house like that. And I guess it was a night for wildlife, because when I checked again a few minutes later, the possum was down on the front steps, looking up at me uncertainly. Very cool.

Obviously I'll need to keep a closer eye on the front door when it's opened...

We already have a SureFlap electronic flap on one of the back doors, which is useful because it works off the Avid microchip that both our cats already have. It will only open for them! It's a British company, and I can recommend SureFlap - but I wish they made a larger model, because as it is Headbutt (who is way overweight now, 17 lbs, a compulsive overeater) can't fit through it easily, so she just ignores it now in favor of the medium sized PetSafe flap we have in the other back door. I think SureFlap is trying to develop a larger version, I hope they do it soon - I'd like to be able to leave the house and know that our cats can get out if they have to, without anybody else coming in! We close the PetSafe every night with the cover, ever since a Raccoon came in our last house (we named him Trick, since he came to visit on Halloween night).

I never knew living with animals would be so... interactive. I don't mind.

Neil