Can you feed different foods

I've recently taken two cats from a friend who is moving house and won't be able to take them with her. One is a boy - 1.5 years old and the other is a girl - 11 months old

At the moment they both eat Orijen original dry cat food - I've ordered some more of this for them and I think it's quite a good brand of food but I want to give the cats some wet food.

I've never owned a cat before but I do have 2 dogs who I feed raw however I think cats have different nutritional requirements so I would like to buy some pre-prepared wet food. I quite like the look of Almo Nature, Applaws and Animonda Carny and was wondering whether I could buy some of each or whether cats should only eat 1 brand of food (like dogs).

Also can I feed some wet food meals and some dry food meals - so I can leave some food out during the day when I'm gone?

Any advice would be really appreciated including which flavours are best - should a certain number be fish and the rest meat or something like that

Thankyou

If you're uncertain about how to feed your cats, I highly recommend this website. http://www.catinfo.org/

Yes, you're quite right -- cats are obligate carnivores, meaning they don't need to (and shouldn't, as it causes a huge range of health problems) eat grains, unlike dogs that have evolved to do so. Cats also require a specific nutrient called taurine that is present in commercial cat food that if they don't get (like from the wrong type of raw diet) will cause serious health problems.

You say you feed your dogs raw -- raw that you make yourself, or canned wet food? If you're already used to making raw food for your dog, I recommend you check out the catinfo page and see her recommendations for making your cats' own raw food. If you don't want to do that, she recommends higher-quality wet food as the best option, with very little or no dry food.

I make the dogs raw food myself, using the 80:10:10 ratio of meat, organ and bone along with a very small amount of fresh veg. I don't really want to do this for the cats because I don't know enough about their needs yet and what a raw diet would have to contain for them. I want to do some more research into this before doing this so I'm looking for some wet food.

Which brands do you use? DO you have any experience with the three I mentioned. Also I thought dry food helped to keep their teeth clean - does wet food do this too or do they clean their teeth when doing something else?

Thanks

The jury is still out on whether dry food actually helps clean teeth, meaning there's a lot of disagreement among experts.

Feeding a number of different brands and alternating wet and dry meals is no problem at all, and is something I do myself, having a dry food fanatic who only deigns to eat wet food once a day. Varying brands is a good idea. There are times when a brand may not be available or its ingredients change, and cats who are used to a variety of foods will adjust to change more easily. That's important if you ever find yourself having to feed prescription food.

Fish can contain heavy metals and isn't conducive to a healthy urinary tract, especially in males, so should be fed sparingly. In addition to the regular chicken, chicken & cheese, pumpkin, etc., Almo nature offers chicken with a "pinch" of fish (calamari, shrimp) or tuna & chicken /salmon & chicken which would be better than the plain fish or other tuna mixes. Almo itself recommends that dry food be given in addition to its canned. Applaws is very similar to the Almo nature. I've been feeding both brands for several years. Another one you could look at is zooplus's store brand, Cosma (and definitely try the Cosma Snackies treats!) It's similar, but has fewer flavors and is in jelly. It's not as popular around here, i.e., our house, but it's a change. Ditto Porta 21.

Carny is patÃ[emoji]169[/emoji], which the cats may or may not like. The big advantage to it is that there are fewer fish flavors and it's available in large cans that you could split for your two. I buy it occasionally, but Jamie thinks even the 200 g. cans are too big. He only wants wet food out of small cans.

Originally Posted by Emma D32

I make the dogs raw food myself, using the 80:10:10 ratio of meat, organ and bone along with a very small amount of fresh veg. I don't really want to do this for the cats because I don't know enough about their needs yet and what a raw diet would have to contain for them. I want to do some more research into this before doing this so I'm looking for some wet food.

Which brands do you use? DO you have any experience with the three I mentioned. Also I thought dry food helped to keep their teeth clean - does wet food do this too or do they clean their teeth when doing something else?

Thanks

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Hi, Emma. Welcome to TCS!

The only diet proved to promote overall oral health is a raw diet that includes the tearing, slicing, scissoring action needed to cut through meat, tendons, skin and bones (Colyer Institute).

Kibble is not appropriate for cats and causes all kinds of problems; see Dr. Jean Hofve Kidney Disease in Older Cats, Dr. Lisa Pierson Feline Diabetes, and The Winn Feline Foundation Feline Urethral Obstruction for just a few articles on this topic.

Since cats - like sharks, snakes and birds of prey - are obligate carnivores, looking for canned products that are grain-, fruit- and vegetable-free and have a high percentage of a named meat (i.e. "turkey" instead of "poultry") is a good place to start. Wellness, Felidae and Natural Balance all have grain-free varieties, and both Nature's Variety Instincts and Evo 95% meat lines are completely grain-free. A "grain-free canned cat" search on petfooddirect.com will yield a veritable cornucopia of options, and you can conduct a side-by-side analysis of the ingredients and nutritional profiles.

Feline-nutrition.org has a nice article on deciphering pet food labels under their Nutrition section that offers additional insight into choosing different products (as well as more information on kibble feeding and the diseases it causes).

I'd recommend transitioning the cats off kibble and then feeding them a rotation of canned foods; this will keep them from becoming fixated on any one product (a problem if they change or stop producing it) and will protect them from potential quality control issues by diluting them. (Before I switched to raw, I was feeding my cats 21 different varieties; they didn't get any flavor more than once a week.)

Switching Foods by Dr. Hofve discusses the benefits of rotating foods in more detail, and Dr. Pierson has an exceptionally helpful article on transitioning cats to canned Transitioning Feline Dry Food Addicts to Canned Food.

I have to say, though, Emma... if you're already feeding your dogs home-prepared raw food, you're more than halfway through the learning curve for feeding cats a raw diet, as the 80% - 10% - 10% guideline also applies to cats. You can get the basics by reading the TCS thread Natural Diet Information Resources or you can get the whole scoop on the Raw Feeding page of CatCentric.org.

- - - - - - -

And may I say how wonderful it is of you to take your friend's cats under your wing like this?

AC

You know I think I might look into raw feeding the cats - can you mix a few canned meals per week along with the raw or if you go raw is it best to just go for it?

I have a few questions about supplements for the raw diet. I quickly googled taurine supplements for cats and there are loads and loads and loads! Are there any particularly good brands or are some of the complete vitamin and mineral ones a good idea? I don't use any supplements in the dogs diet but currently a lot of the meat is frozen for convenience.

Also can you feed pretty much any meat - I've read a few articles and a large part of the meal is made up of chicken - can it be anything else or is chicken a good base to start with? I can get hold of a lot of different stuff and the dogs regularly have different parts of the following - chicken, beef, goat, lamb, rabbit, duck, venison, llama, various different game birds and at least one fish meal per week - eg mackrel, sardines etc

Do cats need that sort of variety or are they better with only a few main sources of meat?

I think if I go for wet food I'll just go and buy a few cans of as many different things as I can get my hands on providing they have at least 75% meat/fish - but I might try the raw first.

By the way is it easier to transition cats onto raw from wet instead of dry or is it the same difference?


Thankyou for all the replies so far - you've all been really helpful

From what I understand, most animal meat has taurine in it, but I have no idea if it's sufficient for cat feeding, because I don't raw feed my cats. So I can't provide you with much advice on raw feeding, but there are lots of people here at TCS who do raw feed, so I'm sure they'll bump around to this thread sooner or later.

In the meantime, I suggest you check out the articles the previous poster provided, as they seem to be good sources of info on raw feeding for cats. Like she mentioned, you're already way ahead of the curve if you raw feed your dogs -- I imagine that the mixture can't be that much different for cats.

And once again, welcome to TCS!

Originally Posted by Emma D32

You know I think I might look into raw feeding the cats - can you mix a few canned meals per week along with the raw or if you go raw is it best to just go for it?

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Yes, you can have some raw meals, some canned meals. More often than not, however, the cats will start refusing the canned at some point.

Originally Posted by Emma D32

I have a few questions about supplements for the raw diet. I quickly googled taurine supplements for cats and there are loads and loads and loads! Are there any particularly good brands or are some of the complete vitamin and mineral ones a good idea? I don't use any supplements in the dogs diet but currently a lot of the meat is frozen for convenience.

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Ground diets require supplementation in general, whole prey and frankenprey diets do not. I don't use supplements, and the only one I currently recommend is Fresh + Oasis Feline T.

Originally Posted by Emma D32

Also can you feed pretty much any meat...

Do cats need that sort of variety or are they better with only a few main sources of meat?

I think if I go for wet food I'll just go and buy a few cans of as many different things as I can get my hands on providing they have at least 75% meat/fish - but I might try the raw first.

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Yes, and yes. Go easy on the fish, however, as they can cause problems for cats. I feed one fresh or canned (packed in water no salt added) sardine per cat per week for Omega 3's, but no other fish.

Originally Posted by Emma D32

By the way is it easier to transition cats onto raw from wet instead of dry or is it the same difference?

Thankyou for all the replies so far - you've all been really helpful

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Depends upon the cat. Try going all raw, if they don't take to it well, then go to canned first.

You're welcome, Emma. Go take a look at those websites... every question you could possibly ask - and then some - is answered on catcentric.org/raw-feeding/a-frankenprey-and-whole-prey-feeding-guide, catinfo.org/#Transitioning_Dry_Food_Addicts_to_Canned_Food_, and feline-nutrition.org/nutrition.

AC

Originally Posted by Emma D32

I've recently taken two cats from a friend who is moving house and won't be able to take them with her. One is a boy - 1.5 years old and the other is a girl - 11 months old...

Thankyou

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(cut short by me to save space)

Both cats and dogs can eat as many brands as you would like to feed. They don't need to eat only one brand.

How long are you gone during the day? Unless it's a very long time, it's fine for the cats to go without food. You can put extra wet out when you leave if it makes you feel better though. Or even an extra wet meal that has been frozen to be eaten a few hours later.

Fish should be kept to a minimum since the kind used for cat foods tends to be quite high in mercury and other hard metals.

I keep meat at a minimum of 43% dry matter basis (DRM).

Originally Posted by Emma D32

I make the dogs raw food myself, using the 80:10:10 ratio of meat, organ and bone along with a very small amount of fresh veg...

Thanks

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(cut again by me)
Before my cat had allergy issues, I used Before Grain, Innova, By Nature, and Blue Buffalo.

Dry food does no more for their teeth than cereal or corn chips would do for yours. You have to either feed large size treats that they have to actually chew on, bones or chewy type meats, or actually brush their teeth.

Also, if you are hesitant to make your own raw right away, you can buy prepackaged raw, two of those brands being Nature's Variety and Primal.


All your other raw questions were pretty thoroughly answered by Auntie Crazy

Wow - thanks so much for sll the really helpful replies

I've checked out the sites and decided to have a go at feeding raw - the frankenprey version.

This morning went really well - the boy (Apollo) looked more than a little interested in the dogs breakfast so I mixed in some raw chicken cut into cubes with his kibble - he loved it! Wolfed all the chicken down . His sister (Athena) wasn't quite so willing to try however she happily ate some blended chicken (same amount as her brother) when it was blobbed on top of her kibble. So it looks like so far so good - I'll keep going slowly and I think I'll add a new protein source every 2 days whilst slowly reducing the amount of kibble. But judging by this mornings reaction I'm quite tempted to just go for it with Apollo and perhaps just go slowly with Athena .....

Anyway it's going well and I'm so greatful for all of your replies - I had no idea so many people would reply to a thread you've all seen a million times before but I'm so glad that you did. Thankyou

Just for a balanced viewpoint, if you search this forum you can find that raw feeding is itself a bit controversial. Raw diets are recommended against by the American, Canadian, and British Veterinarian Medical Association due to concerns over nutritional incompleteness of an unregulated diet and salmonella and other bacterial exposure (particularly for immunodeficient pets and/or caretakers). The only scientifically proven (means large scale testing) dental health diet for cats have been for dry foods. As an example, the largest ever scientific study performed to date, including 38776 cats and dogs, found that dental disease "was significantly more absent" in cats and dogs fed at least some dry food. Dry achieves this by pure mechanical action (such as Greenies dental treats) or a combination when coated w/ polyphosphates such as those marketed specifically for dental health. There are of course alternatives from water treatments to gels to treats, so it is by no means necessary. See link in sig for a discussion where you can hear both sides of the story.

It is important if you feed raw to thoroughly educate yourself on how to construct a proper diet. Finely blending/shredding chicken for example exposed to the air tends to destroy some of the taurine in the meat, of which a deficiency can result in the death of the animal with very little advanced warning symptoms (usually heart failure).

To answer the original question, you should stick to a single type of dry food if pursuing that option, and transitions should be slowly to any new recipe. Wet food however can (and IMO should) be rotated regularly. Feeding wet and dry food together is fine, and in fact Wesley and Buttercup get dry at night (11pm from an autofeeder) and wet meals for breakfast (5AM) and lunch (3PM).

Emma, you purposed a very interesting topic to read and everyones answers are ones that cause you to stop think about what you am feeding. Maybe a little bit of each and let the cat decide. Maybe they know what is good for them.

I'm not going to get into the oral health debate, as the facts speak for themselves no matter how they're spun, but for those reading this thread who may not know - the statement about taurine, raw diets, and dead cats is egregiously misleading.

Taurine is naturally found in meats, thus a raw meat diet naturally provides the taurine a cat needs. The only way to create a taurine-deficient diet is to feed ONLY rabbit meat, both grind AND freeze the meat, and provide ZERO supplementation.

Since 1) rabbit is known to be the lowest taurine-containing meat, 2) feeding a single-meat diet is not recommended, 3) taurine is easily obtained and nearly impossible to overdose, 4) every vetted raw ground raw food recipe includes supplements, one of which is taurine, and 5) every time- and / or expert-vetted raw feeding site addresses this issue, the likelihood of a cat owner happening upon this diet - or any taurine-deficient diet - is extraordinarily unlikely.

In addition, taurine deficiency take months to develop, even on the ground, frozen, un-supplemented rabbit-only diet.

Catinfo.org, feline-nutrition.org, catcentric.org, catnutrition.org, littlebigcat.com, rawfedcats.org and so on...

Originally Posted by Emma D32

Wow - thanks so much for sll the really helpful replies

I've checked out the sites and decided to have a go at feeding raw - the frankenprey version.

This morning went really well - the boy (Apollo) looked more than a little interested in the dogs breakfast so I mixed in some raw chicken cut into cubes with his kibble - he loved it! Wolfed all the chicken down

. His sister (Athena) wasn't quite so willing to try however she happily ate some blended chicken (same amount as her brother) when it was blobbed on top of her kibble. So it looks like so far so good - I'll keep going slowly and I think I'll add a new protein source every 2 days whilst slowly reducing the amount of kibble. But judging by this mornings reaction I'm quite tempted to just go for it with Apollo and perhaps just go slowly with Athena .....

Anyway it's going well and I'm so greatful for all of your replies - I had no idea so many people would reply to a thread you've all seen a million times before but I'm so glad that you did. Thankyou

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I'm glad your transition to frankenprey has started so promisingly, Emma!

AC

Emma:
If you read this article that was linked to you -

Originally Posted by Ducman69

As an example, the largest ever scientific study performed to date, including 38776 cats and dogs, found that dental disease "was significantly more absent" in cats and dogs fed at least some dry food.

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- and use the find feature in your browser, you will notice that the quote 'was significantly more absent' does not even exist in this article. You will also notice that the results specifically mention that the cats fed dry and mixed diets were younger than the cats fed wet food. Older cats already tend to have more dental issues than younger cats as this chart directly from the article shows: http://jn.nutrition.org/content/136/...expansion.html If this was an unbiased test, why wouldn't they use cats all of the same age? In the discussion area it even says: "It is acknowledged that periodontal examination in the present study was not in depth and not complete." Using the assumption that most people feed dry food to their cats, why then are so many cats still getting dental disease?

What I don't want to happen is for you to doubt the great step you have taken towards the well-being of your cats. I'm sure you have already noticed the great improvement switching to raw had on your dogs, so there should be no doubt that you have the ability to properly formulate a correct diet for your cats and see them flurish as well.

Originally Posted by Minka

Emma:
If you read this article that was linked to you - - and use the find feature in your browser, you will notice that the quote 'was significantly more absent' does not even exist in this article.

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Emma, if you ask someone that knows how to use a computer to search, you will find that is from the article.

"Lymphadenopathy (80.8 vs. 42.4%), dental deposits (46.0 vs. 14.2%), and periodontal disease (69.7 vs. 33.2%) were significantly more often absent in cats fed dry food, compared with cats fed soft food."

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Originally Posted by Minka

You will also notice that the results specifically mention that the cats fed dry and mixed diets were younger than the cats fed wet food.

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And then subsequently notice that this was not the case for dogs, and age was factored in to their data:

"One might argue that older cats and dogs naturally have worse oral health and therefore prefer soft food over dry food. Therefore, a 1-way ANCOVA was performed to adjust for age.

Even after adjustment for age, the mean oral health index was significantly higher in cats and dogs fed soft food compared with those fed dry or mixed food, and the mean oral health index was significantly higher in cats and dogs fed mixed food than in those fed dry food. These results indicate that feeding a dry food diet has a positive influence on oral health, decreasing the occurrence of mandibular lymphadenopathy, dental deposits, and periodontal disease in cats and dogs."

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Meanwhile, while raw proponents demonstrate such extreme skepticism towards large scale scientific studies, yet cite the oral health benefits of raw diets with next to no supporting studies whatsoever, and no large scale study has even been performed to date that I am aware of as it is a very unpopular diet compared to commercially available wet and dry foods. In a few of the small scale raw studies, improper nutrition (in an extreme case resulting in deaths) were at times noted due to improperly balanced raw diets (some fed rabbit meat which contained insufficient taurine for example) or choking or internal damage caused by bone fragments in canines. So there is definitely no consensus that any raw diet is the best anymore than consensus that any dry food is bad. Plenty of info online, just be sure to read both sides of the story.

Originally Posted by Ducman69

Emma, if you ask someone that knows how to use a computer to search, you will find that is from the article.

And then subsequently notice that this was not the case for dogs, and age was factored in to their data:

Meanwhile, while raw proponents demonstrate such extreme skepticism towards large scale scientific studies, yet cite the oral health benefits of raw diets with next to no supporting studies whatsoever, and no large scale study has even been performed to date that I am aware of as it is a very unpopular diet compared to commercially available wet and dry foods. In a few of the small scale raw studies, improper nutrition (in an extreme case resulting in deaths) were at times noted due to improperly balanced raw diets (some fed rabbit meat which contained insufficient taurine for example) or choking or internal damage caused by bone fragments in canines. So there is definitely no consensus that any raw diet is the best anymore than consensus that any dry food is bad. Plenty of info online, just be sure to read both sides of the story.

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"Significantly more often absent" is not the same thing as "was significantly more absent". If you are going to quote an article, well... quote the article.

We aren't talking about dogs, so what age the dogs were doesn't matter. Also, like I said, if this were a fair and just study, why would they purposefully pick only older cats for the wet food???

I have no skepticism towards studies whatsoever, but I do however actually read the studies and if they turn out to give misleading information, then well, I don't use it as fact.
Just like how saying feeding a raw diet is 'very unpopular'. If that was so, we wouldn't have so many people inquiring about it here. We wouldn't have a list of resources of where to find raw vets, supplies and support groups. I wouldn't just stumble upon a raw vet in my middle-of-nowhere town. And companies like Nature's Variety wouldn't invest thousands of dollars into formulating a raw recipe.

Some kibble proponents refuse to acknowledge that feeding dry food is unhealthy and causes diabetes, obesity, and chronic dehydration, even when they know and actively suggest wet food as the solution to these problems.
...

Originally Posted by Minka

"Significantly more often absent" is not the same thing as "was significantly more absent". If you are going to quote an article, well... quote the article.

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That is the strangest apology I've heard. But you are right, "were significantly more absent" and "was significantly more absent" is a huge distortion of the facts. Thank you for pointing out my blatant lie.

And no of course they didn't specifically seek out a different median age for pure wet diet cats and dogs, they sought out as many as they could possibly include in the study (nearly 39 THOUSAND animals is quite an ambitious venture), and it just so happened that a statistical age difference arose. And this wasn't a 10-way covariance, so the result is very easy to account for and plot.

Cliffs Notes: Yes, dental disease was more absent it is in the article and yes, age was accounted for which you conveniently omitted from your rebuttal. And no, I do not think that all kibble is the same anymore than I think all wet food is the same, discussed at length in the link in my signature. Ultimately, there are many cats that are very healthy on this forum being fed raw, and exclusively wet, and some with dry in their diets so I certainly would not claim that there is "only one way" or pretend there aren't pros and cons to any such choice.

Originally Posted by Ducman69

That is the strangest apology I've heard.

But you are right, "were significantly more absent" and "was significantly more absent" is a huge distortion of the facts. Thank you for pointing out my blatant lie.

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You still didn't quote correctly... Please try again.

And yes, I know they tried to 'account for age'. But in order to be a proper study, they should have balanced ages out in the beginning, Not the end.

The only pro to dry food is that it is convenient to the owners. Even 'wet food fanatics' who would never touch raw will tell you that.