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New to Diabetes

post #1 of 36
10/6/11 at 8:47am
Thread Starter 
Hi Everyone,

I used to be an active member here a few years back.... then life got crazy. Luckily cats were good for a looooong time. But now my poor boy cello has been diagnosed with diabetes and I have this complication to add to my life. I have decided to treat him and am hoping to attempt tight regulation (for those of you who are dealing with diabetes).

I am signed up on Feline Diabetes forum as well as the tight regulation forum.

This is my current situation and plan and I'm looking for any feedback with people with experience in this, since my vet isn't overly willing to work with me re: home testing and tight regulation.

My cat Cello (13 yo siamese, neutered male) was diagnosed with FD about a month ago. I was unable to treat him at the time because I was leaving for a month. His only symptom was excessive drinking and urination and urinating outside the litter box. His BG was 28, and the vet told me she didn't think I had the lifestyle to treat him because I am often gone for >12 hours of the day and travel a lot and that he would probably be fine for a while and then get sick and I'd have to make a choice, she did say diet could help and gave me purina DM to give him. I switched his food while I was away (he was getting dry food then as well) and he still peed a lot but stopped urinating outside of the box. I did a lot of reading when I got home and that brought me here. I immediately switched him to what now is a mix of only Fancy Feast and the DM (my other cat is now 100% off of dry as well). In the past 72 hours of doing this he is drinking and urinating *almost* normally and his BG dropped to 20. I took him to the vet to learn how to get the shot, talk about home testing and TR and try to get the right insulin. This did not go well. The vets around here don't endorse home testing and she would only give me caninsulin, IF (or from my reading more like... when) this doesn't work they will offer me Lantus. I have some acquaintances who are vets and I'm currently trying to get my hands on PZI insulin. The vet reccomended that I give him 1 U a day for a week then bring him in for a curve. This seems pointless.

I am picking up a glucometer on Sunday and am going to try to start TR myself.

So this is my plan.

Saturday all the local vets are open, so I was thinking of giving him 1 U in the morning and observing him throughout the day, just to make sure he doesn't have a reaction, and if he does at least the vets will be open. (sunday-monday are holidays here this week, which means monday is a perfect day for me to do a curve). Sunday I get the glucometer so I'll figure out how that works (I've watched the videos...think I can do it). Then monday morning, do a reading, give 1 U and do a curve every 2 hours to see how he responds and go from there.

Now notably my life is really busy, I do work a LOT of long hour days and I know this is going to be a bit of a problem, but I'll do the best I can with TR evenings (will get up in the middle of the night) and weekends. Any day I can come home in the afternoon I will as well. I have also found a local lady who was a nurse who has offered to give shots when I absolutely can't get home for a small fee, and hopefully when I'm away (I travel for work a lot as well).

So that's my start of plan. Anyone see anything I can/should be doing differently?!
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post #2 of 36
10/6/11 at 11:18am
I used TR and my cat was off shots in a month from starting! Hes only eaten wet friskies and been on prozinc. I know there was a place to order some inulins without RX-my vets very open minded and I did't tell her what I had planned till after I had meds.

I used the relion confirm meter-was under 10 and strips are 20 or so for 50ct. Walmart has it.

Post and see if anyone in your area has a vet ref would be only thing I would try. Number one thing with TR is do not freak if it gets low-plenty of times my cat went to 30 something.
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post #3 of 36
10/6/11 at 11:40am
Thread Starter 
thanks for the advise! I am looking around for help locally, but I do think I can do it myself.

Considering he has already responded so well to the diet alone I am very hopeful. My vet is totally freaking me about about hypo, but I am trying to read and believe the literature, that the diet will help avoid this and I'll be prepared.....
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post #4 of 36
10/6/11 at 11:58am
Only meant so you could get the insulin eaiser. I must admit I am a stay at home cat mom I tested my cat OFTEN(Vet asked once if it was 2 days mistakenly put in as one...)

My guy was 7 1/2 at time of diagnoses and I am told it was caught pretty early. I had noticed he was a little slower for maybe a month or so but had thought it was cause the cold outside and fact he had always been more lazy in winter.
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post #5 of 36
10/6/11 at 12:09pm
Thread Starter 
ya, i don't have the luxury of being at home, so I'll err on the more cautious side, but it doesn't seem to be as risky once he's on the new diet from what I can tell. I also wish they wouldn't give me caninsulin, i'm looking elsewhere for prozinc or PZI, but in canada its not technically approved for cats. If it doesn't work I'll switch to Lantus.

I'm going to do the curves though and bring it to my vet and hopefully they will see i'm willing to do the work and will be more willing to work with me.

I think we caught Cello early, I'd had blood tests done on him every year at his checkup so it can't have been going on for too long. The only symptom he had was the drinking, which he had showed in the past and I had had him checked for diabetes in the past, so it went on about a month before I took him to get checked again. But weight and all other aspects of lifestyle have stayed the same, and he has had drastic improvements on just the diet change.

Fingers crossed for a successful treatment and possible remission
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post #6 of 36
10/6/11 at 12:59pm
Thread Starter 
catsallaround: did you ever have to treat for hypo?
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post #7 of 36
10/6/11 at 3:57pm
Not ONCE!!! He ALWAYS came back up on his own. Only thing I did different was wet food was available at all times-otherwise he would eat to fast and throw up.
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post #8 of 36
10/8/11 at 2:32am
The best advice I can give you is to switch him to a low carbohydrate diet and read this: http://catinfo.org/?link=felinediabetes
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post #9 of 36
10/8/11 at 6:24pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Minka View Post
The best advice I can give you is to switch him to a low carbohydrate diet and read this: http://catinfo.org/?link=felinediabetes
thanks for the link! already did the switch and within 72 hours his bg dropped significantly and his symptoms all but dissapeared. He is still too high unfortunately and needs insulin
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post #10 of 36
10/8/11 at 6:29pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by lmunsie View Post
thanks for the link! already did the switch and within 72 hours his bg dropped significantly and his symptoms all but dissapeared. He is still too high unfortunately and needs insulin
Didn't you say he is on Fancy Feast and the DM food though? Both of those aren't low enough in carbs to be as effective as possible. Premium foods like Blue Wilderness, Nature's Variety and Before Grain would be much better options.
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post #11 of 36
10/8/11 at 7:56pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Minka View Post
Didn't you say he is on Fancy Feast and the DM food though? Both of those aren't low enough in carbs to be as effective as possible. Premium foods like Blue Wilderness, Nature's Variety and Before Grain would be much better options.
yes, he is on those other foods. I will def. look into these ones you suggested. It seemed like most people had their diabetic cats on fancy feast. His skin is already not looking so hot from being on it though and I was hoping to find some good alternatives......

Are those foods as high in protein?
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post #12 of 36
10/8/11 at 7:59pm
Certain fancy feast is VERY low carb and before I could get my guy on friskies(needed to do big cans as many cats share the bowl at my house)he was on wet I had on hand.
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post #13 of 36
10/8/11 at 8:07pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by catsallaround View Post
Certain fancy feast is VERY low carb and before I could get my guy on friskies(needed to do big cans as many cats share the bowl at my house)he was on wet I had on hand.
yes, i have printed out a list of the very low carb ones and DM is only 8% i believe and these foods are helping
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post #14 of 36
10/8/11 at 8:12pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by lmunsie View Post
yes, he is on those other foods. I will def. look into these ones you suggested. It seemed like most people had their diabetic cats on fancy feast. His skin is already not looking so hot from being on it though and I was hoping to find some good alternatives......

Are those foods as high in protein?
If a food is low carb, there isn't anything else that Could be in it other than protein and fat.
You can look at a food one of two ways: highest protein, or lowest carb. I know how to calculate both but since crude protein is already listed on the can, I calculate that first. If a food has 43 or higher percent protein (ideally 45 or 50+), contains no grains, soy or weird additives and veggies aren't in the main 5 ingredients than it's acceptable in my eyes.
But since your cat has diabetes, if it were me, I would invest in the Best possible food I could afford because sometimes that can mean Never having to pay for insulin again. (And that means less vet visits which eat your wallet faster than anything! xD)
Quote:
Originally Posted by catsallaround View Post
Certain fancy feast is VERY low carb and before I could get my guy on friskies(needed to do big cans as many cats share the bowl at my house)he was on wet I had on hand.
Yes, some of the varieties are, but they also are made from meat by-products and you don't even want to KNOW what goes into those...
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post #15 of 36
10/8/11 at 9:35pm
I know...have had many cats since mid 90's with a diabetic cat issue comes up of sugar not being regulated and they will only eat limited items at times. I never finished my bottle of insulin as he did so good on the "crap" foods. He is going in for exam soon just to refresh bloodwork.

Glad to hear kitty is doing well keep up the good work!
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post #16 of 36
10/9/11 at 4:40am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Minka View Post
If a food is low carb, there isn't anything else that Could be in it other than protein and fat.
You can look at a food one of two ways: highest protein, or lowest carb. I know how to calculate both but since crude protein is already listed on the can, I calculate that first. If a food has 43 or higher percent protein (ideally 45 or 50+), contains no grains, soy or weird additives and veggies aren't in the main 5 ingredients than it's acceptable in my eyes.
But since your cat has diabetes, if it were me, I would invest in the Best possible food I could afford because sometimes that can mean Never having to pay for insulin again. (And that means less vet visits which eat your wallet faster than anything! xD)

Yes, some of the varieties are, but they also are made from meat by-products and you don't even want to KNOW what goes into those...
I agree completely he should be on the best food, especially since this food change hasn't been great for his skin and breath (was always on very high quality dry food..... which turns out caused this diabetes) so I will do some research to figure out better food, with comparable protein/carb levels that are available in my area. But for now at least he is switched from the high carb dry to low carb wet and it is helping. Getting my glucometer today so real treatment can begin soon!! (assuming the testing goes well)
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post #17 of 36
10/9/11 at 9:20pm
Thread Starter 
Did my first successful glucose test! Only took two tries and he was very good about it. Unfortunately he is very high. 23.2 So going to do my first curve tomorrow. Wish us luck!
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post #18 of 36
10/10/11 at 3:05am
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post #19 of 36
10/10/11 at 8:36am
Thread Starter 
First day curving Cello

Time...........Glucose level.....note

7:30am......21.2 (378)......1 U Caninsulin
9:30am......11.8 (212)
11:30am......2.1 (37.8)......Trying to stay calm, he is acting normal, eating and is on
the right diet.........
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post #20 of 36
10/10/11 at 9:49am
Remeber that the 1 unit was rx'ed when he was on a high carb(pre diagnosis) food and he may need less insulin.

Good luck on the curve today!
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post #21 of 36
10/10/11 at 9:55am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by catsallaround View Post
Remeber that the 1 unit was rx'ed when he was on a high carb(pre diagnosis) food and he may need less insulin.

Good luck on the curve today!
Yeah maybe, it seems like such a sharp drop! Trying to stay calm though, he is acting totally normal. testing again in 20 minutes, hopefully he won't still be low.....

EDIT: tested again at 1:30pm Back up to 16.4

Don't think I'm going to have a very good relationship with caninsulin
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post #22 of 36
10/10/11 at 10:52am
Also keep in mind if on to much they will drop then spike soon after. I ran into this with Ben. I was told to up it but after reading/deciding to follow TR without talking to the vet about it I dropped him and used 100% the dosing on yourdiabeticcat.com
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post #23 of 36
10/10/11 at 1:07pm
Thread Starter 
Here is his curve for the day, I will test again once more tonight before bed....

Time...........Glucose level.....insulin

7:30am......21.2 (378)......1 U Caninsulin
9:30am......11.8 (212)...... +2
11:30am......2.1 (37.8)..... +4
1:30 pm...... 16.4 (295)..... +6
4:00 pm...... 18.2 (327)...... +8.5

I don't think this insulin is going to work very well for him.

I don't want to give a higher dose because he bottomed out, but he didn't even test in the normal range once!



At least he was a super star for all the testing
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post #24 of 36
10/10/11 at 1:38pm
i would not go higher just yet. are you going to being shooting more frequently or just 2 times a day? i know you have said your schedule is tight. when is the next day you can be home to monitor?
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post #25 of 36
10/10/11 at 1:43pm
Thread Starter 
I am supposed to only shoot once a day until he goes back to the vets (clearly not enough!). I want to shoot again overnight but I'll wait until tomorrow and hopefully I can talk to the vet and tell them what is going on. I really want their help but am afraid I won't get it.

According to the scale on yourdiabeticcat.com I should have given him 2U this morning, glad I didn't because he bottomed out at 2.1 on 1U, but because I'm not following the scale the moderator won't let me post their anymore.......... more frustration and less help

I can do curving in the evenings after his second shot (once he is on 2 shots a day) and then hopefully one day this weekend..... maybe Sunday. Because my days are so long I will have to moderate overnight and if he needs a third shot it will have to be in the wee hours of the morning. I wish I could just get a longer acting insulin. arrrrgh
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post #26 of 36
10/10/11 at 3:28pm
Do the best you can. Not sure why they won't let you post tho!((

I know ben would go low but with prozinc it always worked out. I shot him any time his blood surgar was high after the peak. Seems a very different insulin. Have you thought of trying to do a consult far away to get the insulin?
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post #27 of 36
10/10/11 at 3:31pm
Thread Starter 
ya i'm trying, I've contacted 2 of my old vets from when I was growing up (they know me really well and usually are willing to help)

They both said PZI is what they used to use on diabetic cats but it's not available in Canada anymore, although I think there is something similar under the name hypurin so I'm going to look into that now....
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post #28 of 36
10/10/11 at 3:38pm
have you looked into Canadian support groups? May get the best views/experiences that would most help you.
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post #29 of 36
10/11/11 at 7:14am
Thread Starter 
Spoke with my vet today. She actually took the fact that I did all the testing at home very well and agree's Cello needs a different insulin!

I'm hoping she'll give my hypurin which I think is the most similar to PROZINC that we can get in Canada. At least it's a start.... she seems more confident in my abilities and hopefully willing to work with me.

Shot Cello up this morning but that will be it for caninsulin for him, 24 hours off the juice and then onto something new....... what an... adventure?
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post #30 of 36
10/11/11 at 3:10pm
Job well done!!!
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