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I could just cry

post #1 of 26
9/24/11 at 4:21pm
Thread Starter 
I've been trying to give a pill to my 23+ pound, big strong Swanie and the only time I managed to get it in his mouth he was hissing and spit it out. And that was with DH holding him. I have tried every blessed thing I can thing of and ended up wasting the pill by crushing it up and putting it in some tuna water. The really really bad part is I only have 2 pills, one for today and one for tomorrow and now I only have one pill. Plus the 1/2 pill for Cindy tomorrow. I just don't know what to do, I can't get any more until Monday and he needs to start taking them for his URI. I'm stressed, he's stressed, Cindy is stressed because this is her 8th day of getting grabbed and getting a pill shoved in her mouth. Anybody who says having cats will reduce your stress level never had to give a pill to a cat. I'm trying to decide if I should take half of the last pill and crush it up in some butter, but if he won't eat that, I'll be wasting another half of a pill. Why does this stuff always happen on weekends?
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post #2 of 26
9/24/11 at 4:34pm
if you have a hot dog, stick the pill in a tiny piece of hotdog. Greenies also have a pill pocket treat designed for cats. All else fails, wrap the kitty like a burrito, pen him against your chest with a hand gently securing his head so he can't jerk around, then with your assistant, pry his mouth open and stick the pill as far back in his throat as possible then hold his mouth shut while stroking his throat to stimulate him to swallow.

My parents have cats the vary on difficulty when it comes to taking pills. One hates it but he's too lazy to fight. The youngest he fights but not terribly bad and then the oldest, Tasja, has to be wrapped up like a burrito or she'll tear you a new one. She will often hide the pill in her mouth then spit it out later so often we pry open her mouth again to make sure she swallowed it.
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post #3 of 26
9/24/11 at 5:11pm
I've never been able to wrap a cat. They all seemed to turn into little helicopters with claws whenever I tried.

For me, the best way to pill a cat is to immobilize him without the blanket, and this is easier done with just one person.

If you have a pouch of food that has some kind of gravy in it, pour a little in a bowl as a treat. While he's eating, squat behind him - knees out in a V, sitting on your heels.

This completely contains them. Slide up behind them. Their natural tendency is to back up - he'll back right into you. Hold him tight with your legs - there's no way out. If you're a righty, hold his head firmly with your left hand. Have the pill already between thumb and forefinger of your right hand. Push his jaw open with your left index finger (push at the back of his jaw, where upper and lower meet) with your thumb on the top (or side) of his head and the rest of your hand under his chin. (As best you can, hold his head with your left hand, then push open his jaw with your left index finger).

Slip the pill in his mouth with your right index finger, and push it over the hump of his tongue. Just push and be quick. Once it's over that hump, it's not coming back out. Then hold his mouth closed with your left hand while you stroke his chin/neck while he swallows the pill. Then immediately give him a treat of something, telling him WHAT a good boy he is!

Be quick, be firm, and before you do it, take a big breath and be confident. To make it a little more palatable, you can coat the pill with butter.

He may chomp down on your finger while you do this. If you're worried, wrap a bandaid around your right finger (the one pushing the pill in his mouth) above the knuckle before you do this. If you have long nails, just be careful (I have to pill Lazlo every day, so I keep my index finger nail short). Even if you don't do the bandaid thing, he most likely won't break skin, just leave a couple of indents that go away. Still hurts a little but it does work.



If it were me, I'd just let it go today. If you have a small cat treat, maybe give it a try with that instead of a pill, see how it goes. Try again tomorrow with the pill, and let the vet know you missed a day. See what they want you to do.
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post #4 of 26
9/24/11 at 5:27pm
I feel your pain, really I do. Sami has been home for almost 3 months and we STILL haven't found a successful way to get medication into her. She scratches, bites, drools, pees, poops. NOTHING works. If its in any food, she smells it and refuses to eat. She's basically dying again and there is nothing we can do.

So if you find a way that doesn't involved being shredded or "pottied" on, let me know.

The helicopter with claws Ain't that the truth!
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post #5 of 26
9/24/11 at 6:08pm
For pilling, I advise this: use a dot of something soft and wet s/he likes. You can try mayonnaise, yogurt, even a little soft butter or cream cheese. Just a drop will do. Make sure you have everything ready, in a bowl is good. Pill, and spoon with a little mayonnaise (or whatever)

Use the holding position. Kneel on the floor with your feet crossed behind you, hold kitty between your knees facing out. S/he will try to back away and will not be able to.

With cat in holding position (as described above), put a dot of the mayo (or whatever) on kitty's mouth to keep her busy and to get the saliva flowing (so the pill doesn't stick).

While kitty is licking her mouth, hold pill in one hand, pry open mouth with other, poke pill in, toward side of mouth and as far back as you can.

You can let go of her mouth at this point, but keep a hand on her to keep her still while you get another bit of yogurt (or mayo or...) on your finger and put a dot on her nose and mouth. She will lick off the yogurt and swallow, pill and all.

this can work with liquids too.

I make it sound easier than it is, at first. It does take practice. And you have to approach it with confidence, kitty will sense if you are hesitant. But once you master this method you'll be able to pill any cat, any time. I know I can!

Some pills (baytril for instance) are very bad tasting. For those it helps to put the pill into a plain empty gel capsule. Gel caps go down easier too. Check with vet or pharmacist before using capsules, as a capsule may affect the dissolving time and this may be an issue for some meds.

You can order empty gel caps on line.

ps, the wet treat on nose trick works with ear drops, eye care, anything really,even nail trims! the idea is, 1)she associates the nastiness with something good, and 2) she's so busy licking her nose she forgets about the other stuff.

One other suggestion. Having the mayo or yogurt handy...wait until he's asleep. Swoop in put a little mayo on the mouth, open the mouth poke the pill in, close the mouth and put more mayo on the mouth.
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post #6 of 26
9/24/11 at 6:13pm
I, too, feel your pain. We always ask for medicine in a liquid form, if available, because DH thinks it's easier to give. Though IMHO it's all hard to give. Generally, I get the fun task of holding the cat down and prying his or her mouth open while DH administers the medicine. Then I hold the cat's mouth shut and try to massage his or her throat, all the while my hands are being torn to ribbons. Speck's not so bad, as he really doesn't want to hurt Momma, but Daisy doesn't have any such reservations. In fact, she takes the opportunity to grow extra arms like an octopus in order to hurt me up worse.
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post #7 of 26
9/24/11 at 6:18pm
Thread Starter 
Well, here is what I've tried so far:

1. Putting it in a pill pocket. He will eat the pill pockets without a pill, but with a pill, nothing doing.

2. Actually putting the pill pocket in his mouth. He fell over backward to avoid me doing that.

3. Getting behind him and holding him close to me. His instinct apparently is to go forward not backward. I couldn't hang on to him (he's big and solid and strong) and couldn't get near his mouth with the pill.

4. Wrapping the pill in a bit of tuna.

5. Having DH behind him holding onto him while I deposited the pill (wrapped in a bit of tuna) into his mouth. DH couldn't hold him still, but while Swanie was hissing, I shoved the pill in his mouth. He spit it right back out and got away from DH.

6. Crushing the pill and putting it into tuna water. He wouldn't touch it.

7. Putting the tuna water on top of some of his food. He wouldn't touch it.

8. Trying to find a pill gun, but all the stores have are the big ones for dogs.

9. This is what did work: Crushing part of a pill and putting it in some I Can't Believe its Not Butter. I've gotten about 1/4 of a pill in him that way (it was an extra bit of pill left over from Cindy's trials).

The problem is that I can't get any more pills until Monday. I had 3 pills left (and part of a 1/2 pill) of the prescription. The vet said to give Swanie a whole pill tonight and tomorrow and Cindy her half pill tonight and tomorrow. So now I've wasted the one pill and only have one left for Swanie and 1/2 for Cindy.

We have figured out how to give Cindy her pill, although she still puts up a bit of a fuss, and tonight we thought she swallowed it, but when I was giving her treats for being a good girl and taking her pill, I saw where she had spit it out. This is how we manage it with her. We've blocked off her hiding places (under the bed, etc.) so she has no place to get away. She'll lead me a chase up and down the stairs, but eventually gives up (with much pitiful meowing). I carry her over to DH who has the pill. While I'm holding her, he gets her mouth open, drops the pill in, holds her mouth closed while rubbing on her neck. That has been working pretty good with her.

However, Swanie is a big solid 22+ pound cat, and he is not as docile. There is much hissing, spitting, biting, squirming, etc. I think I'm going to split that last pill and give him another 1/4 in butter tonight, and then try the same tactic tomorrow with the remaining 3/4 pill, spacing it out a bit. Then Monday see if I can get some advice from the vet. They always show you how to do it on a docile cat, oh just tilt their head back and push the pill in. Ha.
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post #8 of 26
9/24/11 at 6:21pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by otto View Post
One other suggestion. Having the mayo or yogurt handy...wait until he's asleep. Swoop in put a little mayo on the mouth, open the mouth poke the pill in, close the mouth and put more mayo on the mouth.
Hmmm, I wonder if that would work. It sounds worth a try.
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post #9 of 26
9/24/11 at 7:05pm
I always coat the pills in butter.They seem to like butter and the pill slides down smoothly.Use cold butter from the fridge as soft butter the pill sticks to your finger..
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post #10 of 26
9/24/11 at 9:09pm
I am guessing you tried scruffing him? Usually, when I have a cat that just will not take a pill, I get one of those syringe pill thingies and scruff them while I put the pill WAY back in their throat. Then I gently massage the throat from the outside until I feel them swallow. Blue is a good boy and takes his pills without the hissing. He meows at me and fusses a little, but seems to get over it pretty quickly.

I would also be inclined to call an ER vet and ask for the liquid version of the med you are giving!
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post #11 of 26
9/25/11 at 11:54am
is really a challlenge....
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post #12 of 26
9/25/11 at 1:17pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueRexBear View Post
I am guessing you tried scruffing him? Usually, when I have a cat that just will not take a pill, I get one of those syringe pill thingies and scruff them while I put the pill WAY back in their throat. Then I gently massage the throat from the outside until I feel them swallow. Blue is a good boy and takes his pills without the hissing. He meows at me and fusses a little, but seems to get over it pretty quickly.

I would also be inclined to call an ER vet and ask for the liquid version of the med you are giving!
I don't have a pill thingy yet. I checked with all the stores in the area and they only have the big ones for dogs. He doesn't have a lot of scruff to get hold of, but yes we've tried that. Through one means or another I've gotten some med into him, enough that he is definitely perkier today and definitely eating. I'm going to try the mayonnaise trick tonight and see how that goes. I don't think it warrents an ER vet, but you can bet if he hadn't perked up I would have been calling my vet back. She's very good about taking off hour and weekend calls. Last week when Cindy was sick, she had someone meet us at the clinic and give us the prescription so we didn't have to wait until Monday. She even deferred payment until we could get back over there, since the girl couldn't work the computer system.
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post #13 of 26
9/25/11 at 4:01pm
I do the same thing that Laurie does . They always want to back up. I use some really wet/gravy cat food on a plate to distract and sit behind them. You have to be really quick. But it seems to work for me all the time. Then I always give a treat right away.
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post #14 of 26
9/25/11 at 4:37pm
i feel dread when the vet says pill! haha i always hope for liquid medicines.

it seems even crushed and hidden in food my cat KNOWS something is up (because he is never allowed yummy people food)

the last time i had to do a pill it was a very large Drontal pill, i covered it with butter and had someone else hold the kitty while i shoved it down......it took a few tries but it worked.

I know thats not much advice but i can feel your pain and i hope it gets better for you and kitty


\t
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post #15 of 26
9/25/11 at 8:21pm
The only time Lynxx ever got a pill into him, is when we had the vet do it. Same with Midnight Good luck
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post #16 of 26
9/25/11 at 10:19pm
I just bought one of these:
http://www.google.com/products/catal...ed=0CEIQ8wIwAA

I haven't tried it yet, but I like the design. Maybe something like this would help. I got mine so I could clean their ears, but I haven't found the time to try it yet. Got mine on ebay.
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post #17 of 26
9/26/11 at 2:44pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dusty's Mom View Post
I just bought one of these:
http://www.google.com/products/catal...ed=0CEIQ8wIwAA

I haven't tried it yet, but I like the design. Maybe something like this would help. I got mine so I could clean their ears, but I haven't found the time to try it yet. Got mine on ebay.
Yeah, I've seen those. Good luck getting my little hell cat into it. They always demo these things on docile cats. Same as at the vet's. They show you how to do things on the clinic cats who are all pretty laid back. Then you try to translate it to a hissing, growling, snapping squirming 23 pound kitty and it doesn't work the same way.

I got a pill popper from the vet, couldn't find any at the stores, that I'm going to try. They got a pill in him, so he already seems to be feeling a little better. I just hope we can continue to get the pills in him. Otherwise, we're gonna have to get some liquid.
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post #18 of 26
9/26/11 at 6:43pm
Monster has to take 1-2 pills every night since she was around 6 months old (pheno and valium as needed to control seizures). You would think about 7 years she would realize we aren't trying to kill her, but apparently she hasn't put 2 and 2 together. We are still "the evil ones".

Well, I should say DH is the evil one since he gives it to her most of the time. His method is putting her on the couch, bed, whatever, and lift her on to her hind legs with his thumb and index finger on either side of her jaw and the rest of his hand supporting her head (not near as cruel as it sounds). Once in the standing position, he uses his thumb and finger to force her mouth open. Or, if she's really stubborn, he will use his other hand to pry her mouth open. One important thing he does use is gloves. He had an old pair of leather work gloves and cut the tips of the fingers out of the thumb and index finger for the hand he uses to give the pill. Monster will latch on, and get stuck, no damage done. The trick is to do it FAST, don't hesitate, just get in and get it done. It you hesitate you have lost control of the situation and the cat has the advantage.

Now, one the rare occasions that DH is out of town and I have to do it, I have a slightly different approach. I put the pill in a syringe (you can get them at any feed store or online) with a little bit of hot water and let it dissolve. Then, I catch her when she's asleep and start making over her until she's mush, then give it to her that way. If it's a bad tasting pill, I've also dissolved it in chicken bouillon to hide the flavor (that's the only way we could get antibiotics in one of our barn cats...it was liquid but it tasted so bad...yes I tasted it...that we mixed it with chicken broth). The only problem with dissolving them in water is it can make some pills less effective. (The main reason I do it different is, basically, I'm a wuss and Monster knows it. I've tried it DH's way and I'm too afraid of hurting her (or myself) so the "sneak attack" works best for me).

It sounds like you almost got this licked this time, but next time you may want to ask if you can get a liquid sedative to give a few hours before the pill. Believe me, when Monster got valium the day before, giving her the pheno the next night is MUCH easier! And with a 23 lbs cat and sedative would probably help! That's a lot of weight to throw around when a claw is embedded in your arm!!
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post #19 of 26
9/28/11 at 8:37am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by calico2222 View Post
It sounds like you almost got this licked this time, but next time you may want to ask if you can get a liquid sedative to give a few hours before the pill. Believe me, when Monster got valium the day before, giving her the pheno the next night is MUCH easier! And with a 23 lbs cat and sedative would probably help! That's a lot of weight to throw around when a claw is embedded in your arm!!
Definitely don't have it licked with Swanie. Tried yesterday with the pill popper and he chewed the pill and spit out the pieces, chewed the pill popper, just generally had a fit. I was trying to do it like they demo'd, put the popper with pill in his mouth and depress the stopper. So after ruining two pills and not being any closer, we called the vet and took him over there. In two seconds she had him pilled. The took him out of the carrier, he looked at her and hissed and she threw the pill in his mouth. And he swallowed it! I said, how did you DO that!? She said practice

So, wish me luck, I'm about to leave for home in a few minutes to try it her way. Getting him to hiss is no problem at all. Having the reflexes and abiltiy to toss the pill in and get him to swallow. I don't know. If not, we will be heading back to the vet I guess since I need to get those pills in him. She didn't charge us last time, but they are willing to have us bring him there every day and they will work out a fee. He needs them for 10 days (8 more), so the ideal situation is I learn how to do it. We have to figure out a way for DH to hold him and also hold his head still I think so I can be in front of him with pill ready to fling. He's big and he is strong. You always see the demo's on these petite little docile kitties.

Cindy we do have figured out. I pick her up (sometimes she leads me a chase up and down the stairs, but eventually gives up) and give her a little tour of things she doesn't normally get to see from the floor (her head is on swivel trying to take it all in). Then I walk her over to DH who is sitting at the kitchen table with the pill. I hold her and DH gently tilts her head back, inserts the pill, holds her mouth closed and rubs her neck. Sometimes it takes more than one try to get the pill in, and once I found a pill she had deposited behind the TV, but she's been really good lately. If only we could do that with the Swanz.
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post #20 of 26
9/28/11 at 12:03pm
Good luck! Both my vets can't manage to pill our monster, and the techs won't even try. We're extremely lucky that his heart pills are flavored (they're actually for dogs, but he's big enough for the dog pills). Whenever possible, they prescribe injectable medications for him - it's a lot easier.
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post #21 of 26
9/28/11 at 2:24pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Misty8723 View Post
Definitely don't have it licked with Swanie. Tried yesterday with the pill popper and he chewed the pill and spit out the pieces, chewed the pill popper, just generally had a fit. I was trying to do it like they demo'd, put the popper with pill in his mouth and depress the stopper. So after ruining two pills and not being any closer, we called the vet and took him over there. In two seconds she had him pilled. The took him out of the carrier, he looked at her and hissed and she threw the pill in his mouth. And he swallowed it! I said, how did you DO that!? She said practice

So, wish me luck, I'm about to leave for home in a few minutes to try it her way. Getting him to hiss is no problem at all. Having the reflexes and abiltiy to toss the pill in and get him to swallow. I don't know. If not, we will be heading back to the vet I guess since I need to get those pills in him. She didn't charge us last time, but they are willing to have us bring him there every day and they will work out a fee. He needs them for 10 days (8 more), so the ideal situation is I learn how to do it. We have to figure out a way for DH to hold him and also hold his head still I think so I can be in front of him with pill ready to fling. He's big and he is strong. You always see the demo's on these petite little docile kitties.

Cindy we do have figured out. I pick her up (sometimes she leads me a chase up and down the stairs, but eventually gives up) and give her a little tour of things she doesn't normally get to see from the floor (her head is on swivel trying to take it all in). Then I walk her over to DH who is sitting at the kitchen table with the pill. I hold her and DH gently tilts her head back, inserts the pill, holds her mouth closed and rubs her neck. Sometimes it takes more than one try to get the pill in, and once I found a pill she had deposited behind the TV, but she's been really good lately. If only we could do that with the Swanz.
I'm sorry, I thought you only had to give it for three days for some reason. Yeah, you are screwed. I still recommend using work gloves if you have them or some type of hand covering. Good luck!!

I would still see if you could get a liquid sedative you could give him an hour or two before that may make it easier on you.
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post #22 of 26
9/29/11 at 1:51pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by calico2222 View Post
I'm sorry, I thought you only had to give it for three days for some reason. Yeah, you are screwed. I still recommend using work gloves if you have them or some type of hand covering. Good luck!!

I would still see if you could get a liquid sedative you could give him an hour or two before that may make it easier on you.
We have to give it to him for 10 days. He has a URI. For the past two days I've been able to get him to take it in a pill pocket If he keeps that up for the next 6 days I will be overjoyed. I hate putting him through the stress of trying to give it to him, or dragging him into the vets office for her to give it to him. I tried gloves, but I can't do it that way. DH wears gloves and a thick long sleeved shirt to hold him though.
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post #23 of 26
9/29/11 at 8:12pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Misty8723 View Post
We have to give it to him for 10 days. He has a URI. For the past two days I've been able to get him to take it in a pill pocket If he keeps that up for the next 6 days I will be overjoyed. I hate putting him through the stress of trying to give it to him, or dragging him into the vets office for her to give it to him. I tried gloves, but I can't do it that way. DH wears gloves and a thick long sleeved shirt to hold him though.
I'm glad you're having success!! That's the problem I have with Monster, I'm afraid of over stressing her. And THAT is why I can't give her the meds the way they should be given. I worry about making her more upset. DH is used to giving animals meds (he's a farm boy and medicated cats, dogs, goats, cows, you name it). He has the experience to do it. As much as Monster fights him at times, I'm surprise she hasn't broken her neck! But, he knows how to do it, I don't.

Many : he continues for the next 6 days! Hopefully he has realized the pill popper isn't and alien trying to kill him and realize it is actually helping him. Times like this I really wish we could speak cattalk and explain what we are doing.
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post #24 of 26
9/30/11 at 7:42am
Quote:
Originally Posted by calico2222 View Post
Times like this I really wish we could speak cattalk and explain what we are doing.
Even though we only speak human, we should always explain to them what we are doing and why. Cats understand way more than they let on.
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post #25 of 26
9/30/11 at 11:43am
HAHAHA! Even though the reason for this thread isn't funny, I've really enjoyed some of the descriptions. Helicopter with claws!!! LOL, Laurie!

One thing I've heard of, and it might not work at all, but has anyone here every tried to put a harness on their cat? For some reason, that just takes the bones right out of 'em. They flop down on the ground like someone has paralyzed them. It's a thought. LOL! Thanks for making may day, and good luck!
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post #26 of 26
9/30/11 at 3:56pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by kluchetta View Post
HAHAHA! Even though the reason for this thread isn't funny, I've really enjoyed some of the descriptions. Helicopter with claws!!! LOL, Laurie!

One thing I've heard of, and it might not work at all, but has anyone here every tried to put a harness on their cat? For some reason, that just takes the bones right out of 'em. They flop down on the ground like someone has paralyzed them. It's a thought. LOL! Thanks for making may day, and good luck!
I'm sure I'll laugh about this after its all over, but its so bloody frustrating.

We tried putting a harness on Swanie ages ago when he was younger, with the thought of taking him for a walk, and it was totally hysterical. DH was trying to put it on him, I was giggling and making a video. So I sure don't think I could get a harness on him now. DH says he can move 17 ways at once when he wants to, and that's about the truth of it
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