Raw, kinda - Page 2

If your vet has a good memory, I would ask him what he thinks of her weight. Use questions like 'what is her ideal weight? Does she need to lose anything?' I have found that sadly many vets don't say anything unless you ask because so many people get downright angry if you tell them their pet is overweight. Honestly she doesn't look like she needs to lose anything at all, though being on a raw diet will most likely tone her up a bit, so she may gain or lose a few ounces.
I would honestly forget about her weight entirely until you hear back from your vet and just save the scale for future kitties.

While raw has a few percents less water than canned, I don;t think it would be enough to dehydrate her or cause any problems. Afterall, the reason for choosing raw is that it is the healthiest choice for cats, no?

I'm not sure whats going on, but I don't think its related to switching to raw.

Are you giving Ritz any separate bone-in meals, like a chicken wing or neck, or is she eating just the Primal? If yes - stop immediately, as the Primal should already contain all the bone she needs.

If all she's been eating for a week is Primal, however, I would call the company and ask them for that flavor's specific bone percentage. The only way for raw to cause constipation is if the bone content is too high; it should be between 5% to 10%.

AC

Dogs and cats have different nutritional requirements: dogs can eat more bone than cats without consequences, and cats need a stricter nutritional profile. For instance, cats NEED taurine in their foods while dogs can get away with a lower amount because they can make it within their bodies.

Given this, I, personally, would not feed a food meant for dogs to a cat.

And your cat doesn't need more fiber. If she's constipated, she's needs a different balance of meat/bone/organ in her diet... which is why you should call Primal and find out what their balance is.

In the meantime, I'd give her a fresh, whole meat meal once a day instead of the Primal. Chicken, turkey, pork, beef, it doesn't matter, you just want to increase her meat to bone ratio.

I have to say I'm surprised your vet is asking you to bring in a urine sample to check for crystals, doubly so when the problem may be constipation. If the cat is truly constipated, the vet can tell by palpitating her abdomen, no urine sample needed. In addition, crystals are a natural part of the cat's urine, however, they begin to precipitate as soon as the urine leaves the cat's body so any reading your vet gets from a sample "brought in" is going to be artificially elevated. I just had all six of mine in for their annuals and requested a urinalysis on the oldest three - and the vet pulled the samples via cystocentesis. It took only a few minutes per cat.

Could you perhaps bring Ritz in for a check-up?

Has Ritz pooped since you saw the bloody stool? How often and how much?

AC

The normal BM is good.

I'd love to hear what your vet says about the urinalysis, both his reasoning in asking for it as well as what he's testing for, the results and how he's accounting for the changes involved in a sample that's been home-caught and refrigerated for so long.

Just meat. No bone. On a raw diet, constipation is typically caused by too much bone for the cat's particular system and the solution is to reduce the bone to meat ratio.

If there are no organs in this food, they must be (better be) supplementing it pretty good.

The bone percentage is at the high end of what's typically recommended for cats (5% - 10%) and it's not even a maximum amount, just an estimate, which lends weight to the "too much bone" theory. In addition, organs (which should be 6% - 10% of the diet) balance out some of the stool hardening aspect of eating bones, and since this product has no real organs, that "about 10%" bone is almost definitely too high a percentage for Ritz.

You have two options. You can continue as you have been, while watching her closely and waiting for the vet's call. If she has another episode, it will be pretty clear you need to replace some of the Primal with fresh whole meat (no bones), unless the vet finds some other reason for the problem. One plain meat meal a day ought to do it.

Or, if you'd prefer prevention rather than confirmation, you can swap a Primal meal with a whole meat meal now, instead of waiting for another episode, while still watching her closely and waiting for the vet's call.

It's completely up to your comfort level. Myself, given this particular scenario, I'd lean more towards prevention rather than confirmation; I would start feeding her different meats for one of her meals now instead of later. (And don't make that meal hearts all the time - while heart is an awesome source of taurine, it's also high in sodium and isn't something you want to feed every day. Everything in moderation, right? )

Make sense?

AC

Raw food ratios are described and defined in detail in CatCentric.org's Frankenprey / Whole Prey Feeding Guide, but as long as you're feeding commercial, just being aware of the 80% Meat - 10% Bone - 5% Liver - 5% Other Organ guideline and how the manufactured food compares to that guideline should be sufficient.

I'd just give Ritz the same amount in meat that you were giving in Primal for whichever meal you feel most comfortable swapping out. And I wouldn't pay all that much attention to "lean"... cats get their energy from protein and fat, not from carbs, and actually require 20% - 35% fat in their diet. It may be counter-intuitive to feed a chunky kitty more fat, but that's all part of dealing with an obligate carnivore's specialized nutritional needs. Any kind of meat can be fed; in fact, now would be a great time to begin offering her a variety of meats - chicken, turkey, quail, Cornish hen, beef, pork, venison, rabbit - whatever you can get your hands on.

AC

Just jumping in to give my 2cents:

Like Auntie said, no no No to feeding dog food. Cats are obligate carnivores and can Not eat an omnivores diet (what most dog foods are).

Also, dropping off a urine sample is not effective. If you want results you can rely on, the urine needs to be taken by the vet.

Also, if you haven't done it yet, I would Call or Email the company to find out Exactly what is in the food and what the percentages are.

I would definitively start brushing her.

And I also must ask, are you only feeding her two meals a day? 3 or 4 is a better number.

Sorry for the late response, I had a tab open with this thread, but it always seemed like I had twnenty things I needed to do first. X___X

Don't sweat having given in to her pickiness, we all give in to the sad eyes, begging, and swiping at your legs for food sometimes.

I think it was said before, but you can not get an accurate sample from urine that has been taken hours beforehand. Even though I know its hard to get her in a carrier, I would get her to the vet for full testing.
Having said that, we can't guess whether the raw may or may not have caused a condition we are not 100% sure even exists.

The presence of struvite crystals in a cat's urine is a perfectly normal occurrence. In addition, more crystals will begin forming only 30 minutes after the urine leaves the cat's body, so even if the urine originally contained a negligible amount of crystals, it would certainly test high for crystal formations 14+ hours later. (CatInfo.org Feline Urinary Tract Health)

Doing anything at all with those test results is, in my opinion, a total waste of time and money (and the vet should be aware of this).

As for ph, raw meat is a natural acidifier (grains promote alkalinity), but it does take time for the body to adjust to a normal chemical and enzymatic balance once the cat is returned to its natural diet. Ritz has been on a completely raw diet for less than a month; the fact her ph is normal, even if a high-normal, is, in my opinion, a good thing.

I think replacing the Primal with one plain meat meal a day to address Ritz's need for a lower percentage of bone is the only step you need to take. You wondered in your PM if feeding a commercial raw food with a lower amount of produce would have a positive affect, but I don't see a problem that needs addressing.

That said, I think veggie-free diets are a good idea in general and recommend them over other raw diets. Feline's Pride products are all veggie-free; Nature's Variety Instincts, however, are not.

You can try a couple of things to slow Ritz down - smoosh the food flat on a plate so she can't take big bites, add enough water to make it too thin to grasp large bites (this runs the risk of turning off the cat, however), or put a golf ball in a largish bowl so she has to eat around the ball and can't, again, take large bites.

Hope some of this is helpful and / or reassuring!

AC

Every cat's metabolism is different; if Ritz's healthy weight is 10.6 pounds and she continues to lose weight on 6 ounces of raw a day, simply give her more food.

What you're doing now is similar to what parents have to do as their children grow up - figure out what their needs are and meet them. Some kids have a slow metabolism and need to eat less, some are very active and / or have a faster metabolism and need to eat more.

You just need to adjust to Ritz's needs.

And, if I remember correctly (without re-reading the whole thread), Ritz could stand to lose a little weight, yes? And four ounces of weight per month is a very nice, safe rate of weight loss. If she still needs to lose a little, keep feeding her just as are you until she reaches her optimal weight.

If she's at her proper weight now and continues to lose, as I said, just increase her meals a little itty bitty bit and weigh her week to week. Once she stabilizes, you're good to go.

AC

Since like, Auntie Crazy said, the test results can NOT be deemed as viable since they sat around for 14 hours, I would NOT give her the meds the vet prescribed.

10lbs 7oz sounds good for her, like I had said before, she did not look fat in her picture (I think you said you hadn't asked the vet yet?), but keep in mind: switching to raw may make her lose a hidden fat reserve you don't know about, and/or gain muscle. As long as she is not losing more than 3oz per week (2% of her body weight), then weight loss should not be too much of a concern.

You are such a caring cat mommy.