Very interesting to know!!!

cyndersmom

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So I was watching our local news this morning and they had a vet on for answear/question period. A guy phoned in saying that his cat preferred dry food over wet and the reason the vet said was it's not necessarily the additives that they add to the dry food to make it more appealing but could very well be that there is a certain protein in wet food that sometimes makes some cats feel nauceaous after they eat it.. I found this very interesting as cynder does not eat a huge amount of wet and just thought he was being picky,but maybe it just makes him feel sick and thats why he won't eat it..
 

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Sorry, but that's one of the most ridiculous things I've ever heard. It may be my lack of knowledge on the differences of processing, but it seems to me that the "protein" provided in canned, just like in any food (dry, raw, whatever) depends completely upon the source of the protein.

The argument that something changes in the process of making wet food would have to be made for dry food too, as both are subject to heat, which is what's different (apart from the ingredients) from raw.

So there must be more information to that statement that we're missing - some qualification or something. Because on its own, that statement makes no sense at all to me.
 

auntie crazy

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Originally Posted by LDG

Sorry, but that's one of the most ridiculous things I've ever heard. It may be my lack of knowledge on the differences of processing, but it seems to me that the "protein" provided in canned, just like in any food (dry, raw, whatever) depends completely upon the source of the protein.

The argument that something changes in the process of making wet food would have to be made for dry food too, as both are subject to heat, which is what's different (apart from the ingredients) from raw.

So there must be more information to that statement that we're missing - some qualification or something. Because on its own, that statement makes no sense at all to me.
*whew!* Glad to know I'm not the only one with this response!


AC
 
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cyndersmom

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Well so much for that. Obviously that bit of info was wrong or never to be considered according to the "Cat Gods" on this forum. I just thought it was an interesting thing to be considered, Just don't forget I wasn't the one who said this, thanks for jumping on it and knowing everything there is to know about cats.
 

mrblanche

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I actually don't have much trouble imagining there might be a difference between what's in canned food and what's in dry food. Now, there's a woman who has a "Cat Chat" program on Martha Stewart's channel (radio, at least) who claims the big difference is that kibble is sprayed with a high-fat coating to make it more attractive to cats.

I have been to several pet food factories, including Alpo, a big one in Crete, NE, one in El Paso, TX, and Iams in KS. I've seen the trucks coming in there, and I, for one, wouldn't eat cat or dog food for anything. I'd live on beans, first.

By the way, I got in trouble referring to the cat food fanatics, before, too. I think it's too easy to turn good people away from the site, people who are doing their best with limited means.
 

auntie crazy

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Originally Posted by cyndersmom

Well so much for that. Obviously that bit of info was wrong or never to be considered according to the "Cat Gods" on this forum. I just thought it was an interesting thing to be considered, Just don't forget I wasn't the one who said this, thanks for jumping on it and knowing everything there is to know about cats.
Whoa, CyndersMom, why the defensive reaction (and such a strong one, too)?
It's the vet's illogical comment that is being scoffed at, not your attempt to share information. And - while I can't speak for Laurie - TCS members in general are a pretty knowledgeable and savvy bunch that view unsupported and seemingly non-sensible information with skepticism until data is supplied to back it up, I (we?) just happened to be the first two to respond.

I'm sorry you felt pounced upon.


AC
 
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cyndersmom

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Yes I got defensive, as I just wonder where you guys have got all your info from on this subject? Are you a liscensed vet??? And before shooting down this guys idea who knows maybe he is onto something, info is always evolving and they are always finding new things.. I did feel jumped on, but I was just stating what the vet said and you guys made it sound like you are the authority on pet food just because you have a ton of posts... I do not want to sound harsh and I'm not hurt and that is your guys opinion, as mine is mine
 

ldg

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Originally Posted by mrblanche

I actually don't have much trouble imagining there might be a difference between what's in canned food and what's in dry food. Now, there's a woman who has a "Cat Chat" program on Martha Stewart's channel (radio, at least) who claims the big difference is that kibble is sprayed with a high-fat coating to make it more attractive to cats.

I have been to several pet food factories, including Alpo, a big one in Crete, NE, one in El Paso, TX, and Iams in KS. I've seen the trucks coming in there, and I, for one, wouldn't eat cat or dog food for anything. I'd live on beans, first.

By the way, I got in trouble referring the cat food fanatics, before, too.
Of course there are differences in ingredients. But that all canned food has "a certain protein that can make cats nauseous?" You don't find that to be a rather sweeping claim?

Originally Posted by Auntie Crazy

Whoa, CyndersMom, why the defensive reaction (and such a strong one, too)?
It's the vet's illogical comment that is being scoffed at, not your attempt to share information. And - while I can't speak for Laurie - TCS members in general are a pretty knowledgeable and savvy bunch that view unsupported and seemingly non-sensible information with skepticism until data is supplied to back it up, I (we?) just happened to be the first two to respond.

I'm sorry you felt pounced upon.


AC
CyndersMom, I'm sorry you took it personally, it certainly wasn't meant that way. Sorry if I came off too strong, but like Auntie Crazy points out, I like "information" to be supported with facts, and that the claim isn't, is not your fault.

I don't know about you, but I've had plenty of teachers that were wrong, and I've definitely had vets that were wrong (two separate vets almost killed two of our cats). It'd be nice to live in a world where we can believe everything everyone says, but we're all just people in the end. I certainly am no know-it-all when it comes to cat food, and I did point that out in my post.

My cats didn't like wet food for a long time. They would lick the gravy. But in the end, it wasn't because it made them nauseous. They were used to eating kibble, and not a very high quality one at that.

If there were something in canned food in general that made cats nauseous, there'd be a lot of sick cats.
I managed to FINALLY, after several failed attempts over the past 1 1/2 years, switch most of my cats to an all wet diet. It would have been nice to believe the problem were the food, not my attempts to switch them, or their preference.

I'm sure there are foods that make some cats sick. But I imagine it's specific ingredients, and specific sensitivites of the cats, not whether it comes in the form or wet or dry food.

But like I said, it could be my lack of knowledge on the differences in processing.
 

arlyn

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Originally Posted by cyndersmom

Yes I got defensive, as I just wonder where you guys have got all your info from on this subject? Are you a liscensed vet??? And before shooting down this guys idea who knows maybe he is onto something, info is always evolving and they are always finding new things.. I did feel jumped on, but I was just stating what the vet said and you guys made it sound like you are the authority on pet food just because you have a ton of posts... I do not want to sound harsh and I'm not hurt and that is your guys opinion, as mine is mine
Knowledge doesn't come from a ton of posts, otherwise, I'd be a genius on some of the forums I post on.


It comes from taking everything we hear, see or read, and doing our own research, as well as from practical experience.
I can't speak for anyone else here, but I have spent literally decades researching not only nutrition, but vaccinations as well.
No, no degree, only weighing everything I've learned through the years, and I'm still learning, and will continue to learn until I die.

Just remember, its impossible to gauge the tone of texts
 

ldg

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Originally Posted by cyndersmom

Yes I got defensive, as I just wonder where you guys have got all your info from on this subject? Are you a liscensed vet??? And before shooting down this guys idea who knows maybe he is onto something, info is always evolving and they are always finding new things.. I did feel jumped on, but I was just stating what the vet said and you guys made it sound like you are the authority on pet food just because you have a ton of posts... I do not want to sound harsh and I'm not hurt and that is your guys opinion, as mine is mine
I'm not sure you read my post. I certainly did not pose myself as any authority, and post counts have absolutely nothing to do with knowledge of any subject.
I certainly don't think so, and I doubt anyone does.


Being a licensed vet doesn't make someone an authority on cat food either. There are quite a few TCS members that have conducted extensive research on nutrition, and I expect they do know more than the average vet.


I know my husband has a rare brain disease. Given the amount of research I've conducted on the subject, at this point, I probably know more about his condition than the average neurologist (because the disease is rare, most have no reason to know much about it other than general information). I have no medical degree, but that doesn't mean I can't have developed detailed, extensive knowledge of a medical subject.

You're perfectly capable of researching the vet's information, or any information anyone here posts! You don't need a degree or a license to research any subject.
 

cat person

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Originally Posted by LDG

Being a licensed vet doesn't make someone an authority on cat food either. There are quite a few TCS members that have conducted extensive research on nutrition, and I expect they do know more than the average vet.
Which member's are those? What type of research did they do? How did they conduct the research they did? I am just curious.

I am not criticizing you or anything, just so you know. Since you know I think you ROCK and are VERY SMART!
_____________________________________________________________

I do think that since wet food is processed differently then dry food that could make some cats sick. I just think that is common sense. While it might not be the food (or protein source) that is making the animal sick the result is the same. I am also sure that many wet foods have different additives then dry foods. So those might make some cats sick as well.
_____________________________________________________________
Also to Cyndersmom you just need to remember this is just a forum. While it can be very helpful. It is more important to listen to your veterinarian in most cases. Of course what your cat wants and needs is most important
!
 

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Originally Posted by Arlyn

Knowledge doesn't come from a ton of posts, otherwise, I'd be a genius on some of the forums I post on.


It comes from taking everything we hear, see or read, and doing our own research, as well as from practical experience.
I can't speak for anyone else here, but I have spent literally decades researching not only nutrition, but vaccinations as well.
No, no degree, only weighing everything I've learned through the years, and I'm still learning, and will continue to learn until I die.

Just remember, its impossible to gauge the tone of texts
Originally Posted by LDG

I'm not sure you read my post. I certainly did not pose myself as any authority, and post counts have absolutely nothing to do with knowledge of any subject.
I certainly don't think so, and I doubt anyone does.


Being a licensed vet doesn't make someone an authority on cat food either. There are quite a few TCS members that have conducted extensive research on nutrition, and I expect they do know more than the average vet.


...

You're perfectly capable of researching the vet's information, or any information anyone here posts! You don't need a degree or a license to research any subject.
Precisely. Everything Arlyn and Laurie said.

Originally Posted by cyndersmom

Yes I got defensive, as I just wonder where you guys have got all your info from on this subject? Are you a liscensed vet??? And before shooting down this guys idea who knows maybe he is onto something, info is always evolving and they are always finding new things.. I did feel jumped on, but I was just stating what the vet said and you guys made it sound like you are the authority on pet food just because you have a ton of posts... I do not want to sound harsh and I'm not hurt and that is your guys opinion, as mine is mine
As it happens, I know more about feline nutrition and digestive physiology, not to mention the pet food industry's ingredient sourcing and manufacturing processes of both kibble and canned foods than most veterinarians. My own vet, an awesome intelligent man who specializes in cats and has been practicing for several decades, acknowledges this.

I apologized that you felt you were being personally attacked, as that was never my intention. I am not going to apologize for knowing what it's taken me a lost cat and many years of intense research to learn, or for being skeptical about an illogical claim with no supporting facts.

Respectfully.

AC
 

ldg

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Originally Posted by Cat Person

Which member's are those? What type of research did they do? How did they conduct the research they did? I am just curious.
I haven't spent much time on nutrition until recently, so didn't spend much time in the forum. I can't provide a list, and I would have no idea when or how any member conducted their research. But clearly some members are very well educated on issues of nutrition in cats and cat food. Sharky, Auntie Crazy, and Arlyn pop to mind. I know there are others, sorry I don't remember names off the top of my head.
 
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cyndersmom

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Well here is another thing that might give us all difference of opinions.. This was a canadian news channel as I'm from canada. Maybe things are different here.
 

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well from dealing with animals that can eat a protein cooked or raw but not both... ie raw chicken one thrived but could not eat cooked another animal was the opposite.. I could almost understand this is a odd kinda of way...

Honestly at first glance I went HUH ,what, really?... but with a few moments to ponder I could see it being a processing type issue... ie dry few is cooked at a different temp and manner than canned ... Canned can have a canned additive/ ie something in the can lining that could leach and thus change the protein.... Maybe the vet was thinking along those lines due to a issue he/she has seen...


Personally , I have not ran into a issue like this other than I know the food that comes from plastic or heavily lined canned is not eaten as regularly and well as the basic old tin type
 

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I'm sure the vet said it in a different way, but to say "a certain protein in wet food that sometimes makes some cats feel nauceaous after they eat it", is just way too vague.
'A certain protein' could refer to wet foods that have meats less commonly found in dry (duck, quail, venison, etc), and 'sometimes' is, well, very non-specific.
Yes, it is true that wet and dry is manufactured in different ways, but since I consider wet to be closer to a natural diet than dry, I really just can't see any validity in this comment.
 

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Originally Posted by LDG

Sorry, but that's one of the most ridiculous things I've ever heard.
Having been here quite a while, I have to say I doubt that.

And the good news is that they were at least discussing cat food. Until quite recently, it was hard to even get vets to discuss cats on the typical pet program; it seems they think dogs are the only pets taken seriously on such shows. Don't believe me? Check out "Cat Chat" on Martha Stewart's radio channel, and see how many of the calls are actually about dogs. The host even encourages it. But her "It's a Dog's Life" show takes calls only about dogs. Really annoys me.
 

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You know, I can see what the vet is saying too - my boy's bowel movements tend to get 'mushy' if his wet food is increased above a certain level and he just doesn't look all that comfortable. My vets' practice (six vets work there) say that's not uncommon in their professional experience - a weird thing, but there you go. Sure, they encourage wet feeding, but in my boy's case, we don't push it.

There's probably really only one person on this site that I, myself, feel comfortable with regarding food advice - and I'd still never make a dietary change without consulting my cats' health care providers. Those vets are the only medically trained folks who have physically seen my cats on an ongoing basis and know their medical history.

One point - while people don't need degrees to conduct research, an awful lot of people, myself included, are not trained in statistical analysis, or even in how to evaluate testing protocols. That's where, IMO, medical training, for example, comes into play. Couple of years back I had a slight scare on a mammogram...of course I ran to google...and of course my radiologist gently pointed out that I had no real context for evaluating what I found on the net. I'm not dumb, but my training is not in that area. I'm not a certified feline nutritionist either, or a DVM.

Also, I always try to remember - it's awfully hard for any of us to actually know who's posting on the internet, and exactly what their credentials really are - and how relevant those credentials are to the question at hand.

Sure, any good vet will be happy to discuss dietary questions with clients and take a look at suggestions found on the internet. But, just because something is on the internet, doesn't mean it's useful.
 

ldg

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There's actually a potentially simple solution to this question about what the vet was actually saying.


CyndersMom, what was the TV station/Cable Channel, what was the program, and when was it on? Is he regularly featured on the show? Was he a guest on a regular show? Why not look up the station/channel website, contact the station, and ask if the vet can be contacted for clarification/a little more information about the response? Maybe there's contact information listed with the program, or he's got a blog, or they'll relay the message?
 
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