Help recommend a food?

ravenology · Sep 16, 2011

Styx is a little under two years old, spayed (with a big pooch) and VERY lazy/resistant to physical activity. Indoors only kitty. Her only specific "issues" are that she seems overweight (trouble feeling ribs, no waist) and has a bit of dandruff.

Her current food is Nutrience Adult Light Nutrition info here She gets 1/4 cup of this a day which she doesnt always finish. She has been eating this since I adopted her on October 23rd, 2010.

I want to switch to a new food because the "light" part doesn't seem to be working so well (15% min crude fat?) and Id like to do something about the dandruff too. I don't have a preference for brands, just as long as its available in Eastern Canada and under $35-40$ for a month or two's supply.

I really hope someone with more expertise can help me, thanks a lot!

minka · Sep 16, 2011

I can't say what foods are available in Canada, but I can say to avoid all 'light', 'indoor' and 'weight management foods'; they tend to actually make cats gain weight instead of lose.

Look for a food with higher protein and fat percentages, or if you are up to some math, calculate the DMB and find a food with the lowest percentage of carbs that is affordable for you. http://www.dogfoodadvisor.com/choosi...-matter-basis/

As she looses weight, she will become more active, but buying her toys like Da Bird will help a lot with her weight loss.

ravenology · Sep 16, 2011

Originally Posted by Minka

I can't say what foods are available in Canada, but I can say to avoid all 'light', 'indoor' and 'weight management foods'; they tend to actually make cats gain weight instead of lose.

Look for a food with higher protein and fat percentages, or if you are up to some math, calculate the DMB and find a food with the lowest percentage of carbs that is affordable for you. http://www.dogfoodadvisor.com/choosi...-matter-basis/

As she looses weight, she will become more active, but buying her toys like Da Bird will help a lot with her weight loss.

I never would have guessed higher fat! But I was probably anthropomorphizing there lol
Ill check out this "da bird" thing. I got her a realistic mouse toy that squeaks when shaken and a Yoww brand catnip toy thinking they would get her more excited but she just likes to carry her toys around and lick them alot T_T. I think the catnip got her playful for 15 minutes and then she wanted to sleep

minka · Sep 16, 2011

15 minutes is actually pretty good.

If she does that once or twice a day, it will be very helpful.

ravenology · Sep 16, 2011

15 minutes is actually pretty good. If she does that once or twice a day, it will be very helpful.

Well thats good to hear. Would cutting her food back more be a bad idea? She doesnt always finish 1/4 cup, but I dont want to give her too little or anything

Also, the guy at the pet store gave me samples of Rotal Canin spayed/neutered, Chicken Soup for the Cat Lover's Soul brand adult light formula, wellness healthy weight, and specialty care performatrin weight control forumla. I dont know what to think! I feel wary of "holistic" foods because they seem to be mostly grain and vegetables. Is royal canin all its cracked up to be? the one they gave me has 35% protein, and min 10% fat

minka · Sep 16, 2011

If she doesn't finish 1/4th cup, then yes, it would be fine to cut back.

Could you point out the Royal Canin that you tried? I can't seem to find any on this page that specifies it's for spayed/neutered. http://products.royalcanin.us/products.aspx?Animal=Cat
But if I presume that it has 6% fiber, 6% ash and 10% moisture like the food you are already feeding, the Royal Canin would actually be a Worse choice.

All of those foods are 'light' or weight control formula, and unfortunately, the manufacturers don't seem to realize that more carbs = fatter cats, and that's exactly what diet formulas are: more carbs.

Which holistic foods are you talking about? Some may list veggies in the ingredients yes, but if they are farther down the list and the food says 34%+ protein and 15%+ fat, then the food is more than likely a better choice than what you currently have.

ravenology · Sep 17, 2011

Originally Posted by Minka

If she doesn't finish 1/4th cup, then yes, it would be fine to cut back.

Could you point out the Royal Canin that you tried? I can't seem to find any on this page that specifies it's for spayed/neutered. http://products.royalcanin.us/products.aspx?Animal=Cat
But if I presume that it has 6% fiber, 6% ash and 10% moisture like the food you are already feeding, the Royal Canin would actually be a Worse choice.

All of those foods are 'light' or weight control formula, and unfortunately, the manufacturers don't seem to realize that more carbs = fatter cats, and that's exactly what diet formulas are: more carbs.

Which holistic foods are you talking about? Some may list veggies in the ingredients yes, but if they are farther down the list and the food says 34%+ protein and 15%+ fat, then the food is more than likely a better choice than what you currently have.

Here's a better description of the samples:

Chicken Soup For the Cat Lover's Soul - Adult Light
Protein -32%min
fat - 9.0%max
fibre - 8.0%min
moister - 10%max
taurine - .1%min
Does not list an ash or phosphorous content
Says "Holistic for Health" on the package, 3rd and 5th ingredients on the list are cracked barley and rice, respectively.

Specialty Care: Performatrin - Weight Control
Protein - 32%min
fat - 10.0%min
fibre - 9.0%max
Moisture - 10.0% max
ash - 6.7%max
Phosphouous - .80%min
taurine - .16%mmin
3rd most common ingredient is rice, further down on the list is also oat fibre and beet pulps

Wellness Healthy Weight (also a holistic brand)
protein - 30%min
fat - 8%min
fibre 4%max
moistre - 11%max
ash - 6.5%max
taurine - .2%min
third ingredient is rice, fourth barley, 5 ground rice

Royal Canin - Spayed Neutered

protein - 35%min
fat - 10%min
fibre - 8.2%max
moisture 10%max
doesnt list the other analyses
1st and third ingredients are corn and corn gluten meal

Seems like a large concentration of veggies in the holistic brands, so I feel wary of them

auntie crazy · Sep 17, 2011

Originally Posted by Ravenology

Styx is a little under two years old, spayed (with a big pooch) and VERY lazy/resistant to physical activity. Indoors only kitty. Her only specific "issues" are that she seems overweight (trouble feeling ribs, no waist) and has a bit of dandruff.

...

Hi, Ravenology (cool name!). Welcome to TCS!

Have you considered switching to a canned grain-free diet? Cats on canned food lose weight far more easily than those on kibble.

CatInfo.org (Dr. Pierson) has an article you might find interesting: Feline Obesity: An Epidemic of Fat Cats, and Dr. Hofve, of LittleBigCat.com also discusses this issue here: Feline Obesity.

Feed more wet food. In general, cats should receive at least 75 percent of their diet as wet food, either good-quality canned foods or homemade diets. For significant, healthy weight loss, feed 100% canned food and get rid of the dry altogether. (There are many reasons to ditch the dry food, but we can just start with the fact that all those carbs will turn to fat because the cat canâ€[emoji]8482[/emoji]t use them for energy!) Always make sure kitty is eating; some cats are so addicted to their dry food that they will go on a hunger strike without it. Be sure you work closely with your veterinarian when changing diets to minimize the risk to your cat.

A high-protein, high-fat, low-carbohydrate diet (think â€œAtkinsâ€â€“or should we say, â€œCatkinsâ€!) is truly ideal for the cat. Most canned cat and kitten foods meet these standards, but try to choose those with the least carbohydrate. You can get a fair idea of carbohydrate content by simply subtracting all the listed percentages on the label from 100%. About 8% carbohydrate (or less) is best. Although it seems counter-intuitive to eat more fat while trying to lose weight, adding will help maintain a good balance in the body, and provide support for the immune and nervous systems.

Feline-Nutrition.org also has several articles on this topic, including "Diabetes and Obesity: Preventable Epidemics" and "Feline Obesity: A Cat as Big as Omaha". Dr. Hodgkins discusses the impact of nutrition on diabetes and obesity on her website YourDiabeticCat.com:

As important as the proper management of feline diabetes is, it may be even more important that cat lovers learn to prevent this terrible disease in any cat with whom they ever share a home in the future. Diabetes in the cat is a man-made disease, which is completely preventable by avoiding the "kitty junk-food" that is dry kibbled cat food. Without question, it is the continuous, day-in, day-out consumption of this poor-quality, highly processed, carbohydrate rich "breakfast cereal for cats" that causes so many felines to become diabetic.

Many cats also become obese from such a terrible diet, but obesity does not cause diabetes, as some experts would have cat owners think. Rather, obesity and diabetes simply have the same cause, non-nutritious, high carbohydrate commercial cat food. To prevent both obesity and diabetes, we need only avoid such junk food when we feed our cats. Instead, we must feed the cat what it evolved to eat: meat. Fortunately, there are many canned and pouched cat foods, as well as many recipes for raw meat diets, that provide good quality nutrition of the obligatory carnivore that is the cat.

Hope some of this info is helpful to you!

AC

ravenology · Sep 18, 2011

Hi, Ravenology (cool name!). Welcome to TCS!

Have you considered switching to a canned grain-free diet? Cats on canned food lose weight far more easily than those on kibble.

CatInfo.org (Dr. Pierson) has an article you might find interesting: Feline Obesity: An Epidemic of Fat Cats, and Dr. Hofve, of LittleBigCat.com also discusses this issue here: Feline Obesity.

Feed more wet food. In general, cats should receive at least 75 percent of their diet as wet food, either good-quality canned foods or homemade diets. For significant, healthy weight loss, feed 100% canned food and get rid of the dry altogether. (There are many reasons to ditch the dry food, but we can just start with the fact that all those carbs will turn to fat because the cat canâ€[emoji]8482[/emoji]t use them for energy!) Always make sure kitty is eating; some cats are so addicted to their dry food that they will go on a hunger strike without it. Be sure you work closely with your veterinarian when changing diets to minimize the risk to your cat.

A high-protein, high-fat, low-carbohydrate diet (think â€œAtkinsâ€â€“or should we say, â€œCatkinsâ€!) is truly ideal for the cat. Most canned cat and kitten foods meet these standards, but try to choose those with the least carbohydrate. You can get a fair idea of carbohydrate content by simply subtracting all the listed percentages on the label from 100%. About 8% carbohydrate (or less) is best. Although it seems counter-intuitive to eat more fat while trying to lose weight, adding will help maintain a good balance in the body, and provide support for the immune and nervous systems.

Feline-Nutrition.org also has several articles on this topic, including "Diabetes and Obesity: Preventable Epidemics" and "Feline Obesity: A Cat as Big as Omaha". Dr. Hodgkins discusses the impact of nutrition on diabetes and obesity on her website YourDiabeticCat.com:

As important as the proper management of feline diabetes is, it may be even more important that cat lovers learn to prevent this terrible disease in any cat with whom they ever share a home in the future. Diabetes in the cat is a man-made disease, which is completely preventable by avoiding the "kitty junk-food" that is dry kibbled cat food. Without question, it is the continuous, day-in, day-out consumption of this poor-quality, highly processed, carbohydrate rich "breakfast cereal for cats" that causes so many felines to become diabetic.

Many cats also become obese from such a terrible diet, but obesity does not cause diabetes, as some experts would have cat owners think. Rather, obesity and diabetes simply have the same cause, non-nutritious, high carbohydrate commercial cat food. To prevent both obesity and diabetes, we need only avoid such junk food when we feed our cats. Instead, we must feed the cat what it evolved to eat: meat. Fortunately, there are many canned and pouched cat foods, as well as many recipes for raw meat diets, that provide good quality nutrition of the obligatory carnivore that is the cat.

Hope some of this info is helpful to you!

Thanks for the suggestion Auntie -
My concern with wet food is that she doesnt eat everything all at one go. Im not usually home all day long to keep taking the food in and out of the fridge.. would she get kitty food poisoning if I left it for her?

ravenology · Sep 18, 2011

I have a Slim Cat ball - a large plastic ball with holes in it that youre supposed to fill with treats and food - could I perhaps try putting ALL her food in it? Or would that be mean?

auntie crazy · Sep 18, 2011

Originally Posted by Ravenology

Thanks for the suggestion Auntie -
My concern with wet food is that she doesnt eat everything all at one go. Im not usually home all day long to keep taking the food in and out of the fridge.. would she get kitty food poisoning if I left it for her?

Hmmm, are you only feeding her once a day? Cats evolved to eat many small meals a day and can get tummy aches - which can cause vomiting that, in some instances, will make a cat go off her food entirely - if they go too long without eating. I feed my cats three times a day and that's what I always recommend: once shortly after you get up, once immediately after you get home, and one more time just before you go to bed.

Most kitties eat ~one 5.5 or 6 ounce can of food a day. You can feed 1/3 of the can at each sitting, which your fur-baby should be able to eat within a few minutes.

CatInfo.org has a great transition article that will be very helpful to you if your girl gives you any trouble finishing her food at each sitting: Transitioning Feline Dry Food Addicts to Canned Food.

Can you give this a try?

AC

minka · Sep 18, 2011

Originally Posted by Ravenology

Seems like a large concentration of veggies in the holistic brands, so I feel wary of them

Once again, all of those foods are light or 'weight management' foods, so they are going to be higher in carbs, and therefore, higher in grains and veggies. If you want a high quality, low vegetable content food, you need to stop looking at diet foods. Innova is probably listed as a holistic food and the protein of their wet is at a staggering 50%!
Other brands to look at are Evo or California Natural.

Originally Posted by Auntie Crazy

Hmmm, are you only feeding her once a day? Cats evolved to eat many small meals a day and can get tummy aches - which can cause vomiting that, in some instances, will make a cat go off her food entirely - if they go too long without eating. I feed my cats three times a day and that's what I always recommend: once shortly after you get up, once immediately after you get home, and one more time just before you go to bed.

Most kitties eat ~one 5.5 or 6 ounce can of food a day. You can feed 1/3 of the can at each sitting, which your fur-baby should be able to eat within a few minutes.

CatInfo.org has a great transition article that will be very helpful to you if your girl gives you any trouble finishing her food at each sitting: Transitioning Feline Dry Food Addicts to Canned Food.

Can you give this a try?

AC

I don't think the OP meant that she only feeds once a day, but that since her cat doesn't tend to eat all the food in her bowl at once, she's worried about the wet food sitting out all day while she's gone.

But no, Raven, your cat won't get poisoning if you leave out the food. In fact, after it starts to dry out a bit, she probably won't touch it again. What you can do is leave one ready-to-eat-now bowl, and another bowl with frozen wet in it for her to eat later.

ravenology · Sep 18, 2011

Originally Posted by Auntie Crazy

Hmmm, are you only feeding her once a day? Cats evolved to eat many small meals a day and can get tummy aches - which can cause vomiting that, in some instances, will make a cat go off her food entirely - if they go too long without eating. I feed my cats three times a day and that's what I always recommend: once shortly after you get up, once immediately after you get home, and one more time just before you go to bed.

Most kitties eat ~one 5.5 or 6 ounce can of food a day. You can feed 1/3 of the can at each sitting, which your fur-baby should be able to eat within a few minutes.

CatInfo.org has a great transition article that will be very helpful to you if your girl gives you any trouble finishing her food at each sitting: Transitioning Feline Dry Food Addicts to Canned Food.

Can you give this a try?

AC

I do feed her once daily the reccomended amount but she doesnt go without eating because shes smart enough to eat it throughout the day. She doesnt ever seem to finish though; her bowl is never empty-which is why Im surprised she's so overweight.

I definitely look into more wet food stuff, I hadnt really thought about it, even though I know its supposed to be better.

auntie crazy · Sep 18, 2011

Originally Posted by Ravenology

I do feed her once daily the reccomended amount but she doesnt go without eating because shes smart enough to eat it throughout the day. She doesnt ever seem to finish though; her bowl is never empty-which is why Im surprised she's so overweight.

I definitely look into more wet food stuff, I hadnt really thought about it, even though I know its supposed to be better.

Excellent. You'll be surprised how much better your cat will look and feel once you get her onto a quality grain-free canned food. In addition to the resources I've already posted, the Feline Nutrition Education Society's website, Feline-Nutrition.org, has several relevant articles on food products and their relation to obesity, as well as tips on choosing high quality foods.

Best regards!

AC

sharky · Sep 18, 2011

Originally Posted by Minka

I can't say what foods are available in Canada, but I can say to avoid all 'light', 'indoor' and 'weight management foods'; they tend to actually make cats gain weight instead of lose.

Look for a food with higher protein and fat percentages, or if you are up to some math, calculate the DMB and find a food with the lowest percentage of carbs that is affordable for you. http://www.dogfoodadvisor.com/choosi...-matter-basis/

As she looses weight, she will become more active, but buying her toys like Da Bird will help a lot with her weight loss.

Over the years I recommended kitten/ puppy foods for overweight animals and actually had a few vets come and ask for help

minka · Sep 19, 2011

Originally Posted by sharky

Over the years I recommended kitten/ puppy foods for overweight animals and actually had a few vets come and ask for help

My vet was so surprised at how well my cat is losing weight, he wanted to know specifically what I was feeding, but then couldn't believe that a wet food only diet (and non-diet foods) could do the trick so he was convinced it was diabetes or the like until he saw my cat's blood-work.

I plan on continuing to wow him with my cat's good bill of health.

(Well, besides what was already broken when I got him

)

ravenology · Sep 20, 2011

Thanks for all the info guys, I think I've got a general grasp on the nutrition now.

If anyone could throw some names at me that would be pretty useful too! What do you feed your pets personally? Im sure most brands are probably distributed across North America

auntie crazy · Sep 20, 2011

Here is the list of canned foods I've been feeding my fosters:

Before Grain 96% Chicken Formula Canned Cat Food ''1''
Before Grain 96% Turkey Canned Cat Food ''4''
Before Grain 96% Quail Formula Canned Cat Food ''5''
Before Grain 96% Beef Formula Canned Cat Food ''6''
By Nature Natural 95% Meat Beef and Liver Formula Canned Cat Food
By Nature Natural 95% Meat Chicken and Chicken Liver Formula Canned Cat Food
By Nature Natural 95% Meat Turkey and Turkey Liver Formula Canned Cat Food
by Nature Organics Chicken & Chicken Liver Canned Cat Food
by Nature Organics Turkey & Chicken Canned Cat Food
by Nature Organics Turkey & Turkey Liver Canned Cat Food
Felidae Grain Free Cat and Kitten Formula Canned Cat Food
Go! Natural Grain Free Chicken,Turkey & Duck Canned Cat Food
Innova Cat and Kitten Formula Canned Cat Food
EVO Cat & Kitten Canned Cat Food
EVO 95% Beef Canned Cat Food
EVO 95% Chicken & Turkey Canned Cat Food
EVO 95% Duck Canned Cat Food
EVO 95% Venison Canned Cat Food
Natural Balance Grain Free Limited Ingredient Chicken & Green Pea Canned Cat Food
Natural Balance Green Pea & Duck Formula Canned Cat Food
Natural Balance Green Pea & Venison Formula Canned Cat Food
Nature's Variety Instinct Beef Formula Canned Cat Food
Nature's Variety Instinct Chicken Formula Canned Cat Food
Nature's Variety Instinct Duck Formula Canned Cat Food
Nature's Variety Instinct Lamb Formula Canned Cat Food
Nature's Variety Instinct Rabbit Formula Canned Cat Food
Nature's Variety Instinct Venison Formula Canned Cat Food
Wellness Beef & Chicken Formula Canned Cat Food
Wellness Chicken Formula Canned Cat Food
Wellness Turkey Formula Canned Cat Food
Wellness CORE Grain Free Chicken, Turkey and Chicken Liver Formula Canned Cat Food

Regards.

AC

minka · Sep 20, 2011

Originally Posted by Ravenology

Thanks for all the info guys, I think I've got a general grasp on the nutrition now.

If anyone could throw some names at me that would be pretty useful too! What do you feed your pets personally? Im sure most brands are probably distributed across North America

Before my cat got allergies (he has immune issues), i was feeding a random assortment of: Innova, Before Grain, Authority, Simply Nourish, By Nature and Blue Buffalo.

sharky · Sep 26, 2011

Mine are not "broken" but also not "normal" ... they eat a Variety diet ... a moderate premium only avail at one store ... canned food from FF ( the no grain no by product types) to Evo )... they also get raw and cooked meats per there needs

Basically figure out what you will and wont allow in your cats food and I can make much better suggestions.... right now I have three kinds of raw ( one made me and two commercial) , 8 brands of canned and two kinds of dry ( one with grain one without )

Help recommend a food?

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