TheCatSite.com › Forums › Our Feline Companions › Cat Nutrition › Can you feed cats without buying cat food?
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Can you feed cats without buying cat food?

post #1 of 37
9/4/11 at 12:37pm
Thread Starter 
I have somewhat of an odd situation.

I'm on SSI (government disability payments--about 30% below federal poverty limit). That means money is tight. Right now, my rent is very nearly equal to my monthly income. I'm going to school so I can try to get a job I can do, which is expensive. Cat food, vet care, and litter are major expenses for me too, though I'm pretty sure I save on the vet care by buying good cat food. I cannot "get rid" of the cats--it would be a major loss both for me and them. My shrink has certified them as emotional support animals, which just means they help me maintain emotional stability, and are allowed into any housing that I live in (as long as I pay for any damage, which so far has amounted to exactly zero). Tiny is smart and does a few service-animal things too, unofficially.

I also have food stamps. This means I don't go hungry, which is great, because before I got them I sometimes did. The thing with food stamps is that they are meant to sustain anybody--including, say, a 6'5" man who does an active job. I'm a 5'2" female. I don't eat nearly that much; and my mom taught me how to find bargains at the supermarket. Which means that right now, I have a lot of food stamp money and not a lot of other-stuff money.

So... here's my question: Is it possible to feed cats on human food--the kind of food you could buy with food stamps? If so, what would be healthy for them? I'm looking at all the alternatives right now--I have two big bags of cat food stored up, so they're not going to go hungry any time soon, but I just had to pay about $500 worth of tuition left over after all the scholarships, and that took a chunk out of my bank account. Eventually, I may be looking at a shortage in the cat budget, and I want to know all the possibilities long before I actually run short.

Ideas? Can you feed cats on people food--healthily, and long-term?
Reply
post #2 of 37
9/4/11 at 12:45pm
Do food stamps allow you to buy meat? If you can, then you may want to look into feeding them a raw diet. http://rawfedcats.org/nature.htm is a good site explaining the basics of raw feeding, there is also a raw feeding sub-forum on here that you may want to visit.
Reply
post #3 of 37
9/4/11 at 1:09pm
Thread Starter 
Yes, meat is allowed, but it is expensive compared to food in general. Of course, cats are small, so it may even out. I'm aware of course that cats are obligate carnivores, so it would pretty much have to be meat of some kind. The trouble with meat made for humans is that often times they put spices and salt in it, and that's no good for cats. And raw meat sold in stores is expected to be cooked before it's eaten, too. If you can't expect a raw fish you buy at the grocery store to be good for making sushi with, you can't expect it to be good to feed raw to cats...
Reply
post #4 of 37
9/4/11 at 1:15pm
The only healthy option really would be raw, just be sure to research it thoroughly to mitigate any risks. I don't see how cooked human food could otherwise be balanced nutritionally for cats, the most obvious issue being the lack of taurine. A coworker's cat just recently crossed the bridge at well over 19, and was fed nothing but friskies kibble, so its not the end of the world if you have to go with a cheap cat food for a while, and in fact I would say its preferable to trying to feed a cat random human food.
Reply
post #5 of 37
9/4/11 at 2:43pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Callista View Post
Yes, meat is allowed, but it is expensive compared to food in general. Of course, cats are small, so it may even out. I'm aware of course that cats are obligate carnivores, so it would pretty much have to be meat of some kind. The trouble with meat made for humans is that often times they put spices and salt in it, and that's no good for cats. And raw meat sold in stores is expected to be cooked before it's eaten, too. If you can't expect a raw fish you buy at the grocery store to be good for making sushi with, you can't expect it to be good to feed raw to cats...
There are many options for meats that don't include enhanced or marinated products (spices, etc.), you just have to read the labels. As to the "expecting it to be cooked" aspect, cats have a natural resistance to bacteria and can handle those foods.

There are several resources you can explore if this is something you're interested in. The Feline Nutrition Education Society has a website (feline-nutrition.org) that covers all aspects of raw feeding, and the following are all very solid online resources:
CatInfo.org

RawFedCats.org

CatNutrition.org

FelineNutrition.net (not affiliated with the Society)

MaxsHouse.com

LittleBigCat.com

FelineOutreach.org As for money, I feed a fresh, raw diet and my cat food bill is about half what I would be paying were I to purchase the same amount of food in commercially-produced canned cat food. (I have no idea how that aligns with kibble, I'm just indicating it's not an expensive feeding option.)

Good luck to you, Callista! :hug:

AC
Reply
post #6 of 37
9/5/11 at 4:25pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Callista View Post
Yes, meat is allowed, but it is expensive compared to food in general. Of course, cats are small, so it may even out. I'm aware of course that cats are obligate carnivores, so it would pretty much have to be meat of some kind. The trouble with meat made for humans is that often times they put spices and salt in it, and that's no good for cats. And raw meat sold in stores is expected to be cooked before it's eaten, too. If you can't expect a raw fish you buy at the grocery store to be good for making sushi with, you can't expect it to be good to feed raw to cats...
You can always go to foreign markets (asian, hispanic, etc) to buy meat because most of it there is not spiced or marinated. You do not need to cook the meat either, you just find a qualifiying 'recipe' (from one of the links provided) and give raw muscle, organ, and bone.
Reply
post #7 of 37
9/5/11 at 4:40pm
Blue kitty, over the years, has loved his meals of plain baked and diced chicken as well as tuna fish. You can't feed them a ton of tuna, but some every once in awhile is not bad.

Blue also likes to have bits of my steak, he will eat wheat bread when he sneaks up on the counter and steals some and he adores ice cream on the off occasion that I eat a bowl and leave the remains sitting on the counter.

I wouldn't recommend feeding human food to your cats on an ongoing basis, but if you have to, those are some things they can eat that won't kill them. Oddly enough, my other 5 cats are not at all inclined to even "ask" for human food, but Blue has always been different...and, at 14 (almost 15), I figured he has earned a bite or two.
Reply
post #8 of 37
9/5/11 at 5:04pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Auntie Crazy View Post
There are many options for meats that don't include enhanced or marinated products (spices, etc.), you just have to read the labels. As to the "expecting it to be cooked" aspect, cats have a natural resistance to bacteria and can handle those foods.
AC, I know you believe this, and there are sites that agree with you. But it has not been scientifically proven, and pets have died from bacterial infection. It just is not as simple and straightforward as that. Most healthy cats, like healthy people, will be able to fight off most bacterial infections if the load isn't heavy. But to constantly say "cats have a natural resistance to bacteria" with NO qualifications of any kind, e.g. even limiting that statement to "healthy" cats (because cats with compromised immune systems fall into a different category), is just ... misleading. IMO.

Yes, healthy cats can be fed a raw diet, if done properly.

Cooked, homemade diets are hard to do without creating nutritional deficiencies long term. But supplementing cat food with raw meat (especially if you include organs and ground up bones) and at times some cooked human food will probably not do long term harm. But I'm pretty sure a grinder for the bones, unless you can get the store do it for you, would be a rather big expense. Never been in the market for one, so I don't know.

Many who feed raw claim that certain bones, like chicken necks, can be eaten by cats without harm. That may be true. I've not seen reports of cat death by bone perforation. I've seen plenty for dogs though, including just chicken necks.
Reply
post #9 of 37
9/5/11 at 5:32pm
Just a tip: at Costco, a large 25lb bag of very good food- dry, chicken flavor, great quality, costs $15... Good luck on whatever path you choose!
Reply
post #10 of 37
9/5/11 at 6:07pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by LDG View Post
AC, I know you believe this, and there are sites that agree with you. But it has not been scientifically proven, and pets have died from bacterial infection. It just is not as simple and straightforward as that. Most healthy cats, like healthy people, will be able to fight off most bacterial infections if the load isn't heavy. But to constantly say "cats have a natural resistance to bacteria" with NO qualifications of any kind, e.g. even limiting that statement to "healthy" cats (because cats with compromised immune systems fall into a different category), is just ... misleading. IMO.
And yet, thousands of cats all across the world get raw fed every day. Cats do it on their own all the time. And ferals successfully live off our garbage if they have to. I don't need a study to see what's right in front of me, but for the edification of others, I HAVE posted several anyway.

You're entitled to your opinion, Laurie, but if cats didn't have a natural resistance to salmonella, etc., why haven't any of them died from the repeated kibble recalls, never mind from the purportedly near-ubiquitous Salmonella presence in fresh, human grade chicken - one of the most typical meats in a raw-fed cat's diet?

And if people, who didn't evolve to eat a primarily meat-based diet, can adapt to handle bacteria, how much more so can the cat, who is so beautifully, specifically designed to eat nothing but other animals?
Quote:
Originally Posted by LDG View Post
Yes, healthy cats can be fed a raw diet, if done properly.

Cooked, homemade diets are hard to do without creating nutritional deficiencies long term. But supplementing cat food with raw meat (especially if you include organs and ground up bones) and at times some cooked human food will probably not do long term harm. But I'm pretty sure a grinder for the bones, unless you can get the store do it for you, would be a rather big expense. Never been in the market for one, so I don't know.
Coming from someone who has actually fed a raw diet, it is most definitely NOT "hard to do without creating nutritional deficiencies long term". The nutrition in fresh, whole, non-processed foods is more complete and more easily digested than anything else we can feed our kitties. (Nor do you need a grinder to raw feed.)

My cats just had complete physicals. Not only are their numbers beautiful, the vet remarked that all of them are in fantastic physical condition, "very strong" with "not an ounce of extra fat".

Raw-feeding does require commitment, and the willingness to spend time learning about and preparing the cats' food, but honest to heaven it's no more difficult than paying attention to what our children eat. *shrug*

AC
Reply
post #11 of 37
9/5/11 at 6:28pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Auntie Crazy View Post
You're entitled to your opinion, Laurie, but if cats didn't have a natural resistance to salmonella, etc., why haven't any of them died from the repeated kibble recalls, never mind from the purportedly near-ubiquitous Salmonella presence in fresh, human grade chicken - one of the most typical meats in a raw-fed cat's diet?
They have and they do. There's no reporting agency that collects the information, but ask any vet to look up the information on forums they frequent. And in the "Best food for cats" thread in the raw forum, the one published study was posted.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Auntie Crazy
Coming from someone who has actually fed a raw diet, it is most definitely NOT "hard to do without creating nutritional deficiencies long term". The nutrition in fresh, whole, non-processed foods is more complete and more easily digested than anything else we can feed our kitties. (Nor do you need a grinder to raw feed.)
AC, you might have missed the part where I said

Quote:
Originally Posted by LDG
Yes, healthy cats can be fed a raw diet, if done properly.

Cooked, homemade diets are hard to do without creating nutritional deficiencies long term.
(emphasis added).

As to the grinder, I was thinking specifically of bones. A raw diet without the bones can lead to nutritional deficiency, no?
Reply
post #12 of 37
9/5/11 at 6:34pm
Just to be clear, I think this statement is misleading:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Auntie Crazy View Post
cats have a natural resistance to bacteria and can handle those foods.
This statement I do not think is misleading:

"Healthy cats have a natural resistance to bacteria beyond that of humans and can generally handle those [raw] foods."

Chalk it up to my being an analyst, otherwise known as an anal-ist, and I'm not legally allowed to make such definitive statements in my publications and it's been drilled out of me. But I think on a "best practices" basis kind of thing, it's something to consider.
Reply
post #13 of 37
9/5/11 at 6:41pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by LDG View Post
...
As to the grinder, I was thinking specifically of bones. A raw diet without the bones can lead to nutritional deficiency, no?
Any diet meant for a cat that doesn't include either bones or some type of bone substitute is unbalanced. Offering appropriately-sized fresh, raw bones with some meat still attached (chicken ribs or wings, smaller rabbit bones, anything from a Cornish Hen or quail) is one of the most beneficial parts of a raw diet.

You would only ever grind bones if you were grinding everything you're making for your cats. People do this, as it resembles canned food pretty closely and is more readily accepted by cats and their owners alike, but it's the most time-consuming method of raw feeding and the only one that requires supplementation.

AC
Reply
post #14 of 37
9/5/11 at 6:46pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by LDG View Post
Just to be clear, I think this statement is misleading:



This statement I do not think is misleading:

"Healthy cats have a natural resistance to bacteria beyond that of humans and can generally handle those [raw] foods."

Chalk it up to my being an analyst, otherwise known as an anal-ist, and I'm not legally allowed to make such definitive statements in my publications and it's been drilled out of me. But I think on a "best practices" basis kind of thing, it's something to consider.
All right, fair enough and fairly-spoken (which I appreciate). I'll qualify my usual statement a bit.

AC
Reply
post #15 of 37
9/5/11 at 9:20pm
I give my cats raw chicken liver on occasion as well as a raw egg once in awhile. And Carolina is right about Costco cat food. Great quality at a bargain price!
Reply
post #16 of 37
9/6/11 at 5:48am
There are a lot of other options out there for you but be very careful and do your research. I know practically nothing about a raw diet but this seems to fit in with your needs. There are a lot of very knowledgeable people here that feed raw but the one that comes to mind immediately is Auntie Crazy. I'm sure she would not mind you sending her a PM. I haven't read this entire thread yet so I'm guessing that Auntie will pop in, if she hasn't already. There is also a raw forum here on TCS which I'm sure will be more than helpful to you.

You sound like a positive, upbeat person in a tough spot. Sounds like you are meeting life's challenges head on and I have no doubt you will do well in life. Wish I could be more help with the feeding issue but I know you'll find an answer on this site. My very best wishes to you and sending good vibes.
Reply
post #17 of 37
9/6/11 at 11:51am
Thread Starter 
I totally didn't mean to start a raw-feeding debate! But at least I'm getting both sides of the story.

What about supplementing with human food? I could feed them less cat food if they got some meat once a day or so. That would make the nutritional-deficiency issues less problematic.

How safe are raw eggs, or would I have to cook them? Or is it just a matter of cracking the egg cleanly? I had heard that the salmonella are most often found on the outside of the egg.
Reply
post #18 of 37
9/6/11 at 3:13pm
Actually, my understanding is that eggs are one of the proteins that are more digestable and have higher nutrient availability if cooked! Our kitties love scrambled eggs (though it may be that bit of butter LOL).
Reply
post #19 of 37
9/6/11 at 4:36pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Callista View Post
I totally didn't mean to start an argument. But at least I'm getting both sides of the story.

What about supplementing with human food? I could feed them less cat food if they got some meat once a day or so. That would make the nutritional-deficiency issues less problematic.

Can you feed a cat eggs? How safe are raw eggs, or would I have to cook them?
There are no nutritional-deficiency issues related to raw feeding. There may be some with cooking the food, but not with feeding a balanced raw diet (either commercial or home-prepared).

Callista, feeding a part canned / part raw diet is a fairly common practice. And you can feed raw eggs (my cats get half a raw egg each once a week; one week three get the yolks and three get the whites, the next week it's reversed), but you can't use eggs as a primary menu item.

Here's how it pans out... you can supplement your cat's canned meals with plain raw meat - chicken, beef, turkey, pork, whatever you can get your hands on - up to ~15% of the cat's total weekly intake, no problem.

When the raw portion of the diet exceeds ~15%, you need to start balancing just that portion by adding very small bone-in meals (such as chicken ribs with a little meat still on them), and small bits of liver and another organ (often kidney, but whatever you can find - keeping in mind that heart, tongue, and lungs are all considered meats, not organs, in raw-feeding parlance). (This is a very high-level explanation - you'll need to know and understand more if you want to go this route. I'll be happy to help you, as will anyone who frequents the raw-feeding forum.)

To keep it simple while still getting the cost and health benefits, I'd feed that 15% raw or less. That's one raw meal every other day if you feed three meals a day.

If you want to feed more raw than that, RawFedCats.org, specifically the Feeding Raw page, is a great resource for beginner raw feeders. Of course, you can pop over to our raw feeding forum to get more specific questions answered any time you like.

AC
Reply
post #20 of 37
9/7/11 at 9:47am
I have a real problem with using food stamps for cat food. It is ment to be used for people only. I recieve food stamps too. I get very little a month. Not all people are as lucky as you to have a lot left over. It is still abusing the system though if you use it to feed you cat. Just sayin.
Reply
post #21 of 37
9/7/11 at 9:58am
Thread Starter 
Re. "meat"--are we assuming that meat is anything that involves muscle and connective tissue? Because that would include heart, lungs, and tongue (and intestines, I suppose).

So... 15%, safely. That might be enough of an edge to help.

ilovemia, I don't think it's "abusing the system"; if I did, I wouldn't do it. I eat practically no meat myself, and buy rather inexpensive food. Lots of oatmeal, spaghetti, ramen, peanut butter and jelly, fruit and veg only in season; buying from Aldi and other cheap stores... etc. My biggest expenditures are for milk and cheese. I'm not actually a vegetarian; I just don't eat a lot of meat because the cheaper meat tends to be greasy and I absolutely hate grease. Most people spend at least double what I spend for food. If I'm given a certain amount, and I'm spending less of it than most people would, I think I should be allowed to use the extra amount that I saved. You are allowed to use food stamps to buy food to feed your kids or your guests--why not your cats? So, as far as I can figure, it would be ethical--especially compared to the prospect of taking the cats to a shelter or feeding them less than they need.
Reply
post #22 of 37
9/7/11 at 12:52pm
Try to tell that to the government and all the people paying into the system so you can eat. It was NOT designed to feed cats!
Reply
post #23 of 37
9/7/11 at 1:06pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Callista View Post
Re. "meat"--are we assuming that meat is anything that involves muscle and connective tissue? Because that would include heart, lungs, and tongue (and intestines, I suppose).

So... 15%, safely. That might be enough of an edge to help.
Yes, you've got it exactly right. Just read the label to make sure the product hasn't been enhanced or marinated with salt or other spices.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Callista View Post
ilovemia, I don't think it's "abusing the system"; if I did, I wouldn't do it. I eat practically no meat myself, and buy rather inexpensive food. Lots of oatmeal, spaghetti, ramen, peanut butter and jelly, fruit and veg only in season; buying from Aldi and other cheap stores... etc. My biggest expenditures are for milk and cheese. I'm not actually a vegetarian; I just don't eat a lot of meat because the cheaper meat tends to be greasy and I absolutely hate grease. Most people spend at least double what I spend for food. If I'm given a certain amount, and I'm spending less of it than most people would, I think I should be allowed to use the extra amount that I saved. You are allowed to use food stamps to buy food to feed your kids or your guests--why not your cats? So, as far as I can figure, it would be ethical--especially compared to the prospect of taking the cats to a shelter or feeding them less than they need.
Callista, the system has already determined what is fair for you to receive. For you to give up some of that, to go without so that your cats can be cared for properly, is nothing but admirable.

May God bless you and get you back on your feet ASAP!!

AC
Reply
post #24 of 37
9/7/11 at 1:35pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ilovemia View Post
Try to tell that to the government and all the people paying into the system so you can eat. It was NOT designed to feed cats!
Yes, because the $3.57 per day that I'm given to spend on food is SUCH a burden to the taxpayers.

There are some things that are more important than others. The well-being of a living creature, even a cat, is pretty close to the top of the list.

Anyway, you're forgetting that this is the same system that is helping me stay fed and housed while I get an education so that I can have a job I can actually do, as opposed to sitting at home and letting my mom pay for my needs because I can't hack it at a highly-social customer service job. If I were lazy, I would have given up after being told "You can't do this job" for the ninth time. I may be disabled, but I have plenty of skills that can be turned into something marketable, given the proper training, and I'm not going to sit there and give up. I hate being on welfare. Most people who have to resort to it do. But my only alternative would be moving back home, and I'm not going to do that. I want to be on my own and support myself.

When I have a job, I'll pay that money back. Until then, that horrible $3-per-day burden will just have to be carried by those poor, poor people "paying into the system" so that I can sit on my butt and be a lazy welfare bum (while taking full-time classes and volunteering at the food pantry and the Red Cross, which don't count because they don't involve asking whether people want fries with that).
Reply
post #25 of 37
9/7/11 at 8:19pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ilovemia View Post
I have a real problem with using food stamps for cat food. It is ment to be used for people only. I recieve food stamps too. I get very little a month. Not all people are as lucky as you to have a lot left over. It is still abusing the system though if you use it to feed you cat. Just sayin.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ilovemia View Post
Try to tell that to the government and all the people paying into the system so you can eat. It was NOT designed to feed cats!
What would you suggest she do with them then? Throw them away? She's not getting more For the cats, she's using what's left over after she feeds herself.
Reply
post #26 of 37
9/7/11 at 8:32pm
I am a bit conflicted about people using food stamps (which is now a card, not "stamps", so can't be thrown away. Any portion left unused would go back to the food stamp fund) for buying pet food. On the other hand, I would prefer that they use the funds for pet food than use them to buy junk food, soda, candy, etc. (which an awful lot of people do). If I had my way, I wouldn't allow junk food or soda to be bought with food stamps at all. So if someone uses their funds wisely, buying inexpensive, healthy food, and are not depriving themselves or any children involved, and still have some left over to buy meat for their pets, then I guess I don't mind. Better than blowing it on Doritos and Dr. Pepper.
Reply
post #27 of 37
9/7/11 at 10:33pm
Thread Starter 
Yeah, it's a card. Has been for a long time--way harder to counterfeit, steal, or trade. The balance carries over month to month, so you can actually "collect" quite a high balance if you happen to eat less and/or cheaper food than the average person. Same principle.

I'm against banning "junk food" categorically, because those things are very much a morale-booster when you are in a tough spot. The clients at the food pantry are usually relieved to get the normal canned food; but stick a box of hot chocolate packets in there, and you see their eyes light up. Society attaches a lot of importance to food. Having comfort food available isn't just a matter of empty calories or sugar; it's a way of saying you know they're a human being with feelings rather than yet another beggar in a long line of beggars.

If you were to dictate what people ate like that, you'd be teaching them that they are incompetent and not particularly smart, and that they are not worth enough to society to have any treats. That is the worst possible message to send to people who are trying to get back on their feet, find jobs, take care of kids; or who are disabled and can't work and are already bombarded daily with pity-hate-fear messages. If you want people to act like adults, you've got to treat 'em like adults. Don't presume incompetence, or that's exactly what you'll get.
Reply
post #28 of 37
9/7/11 at 11:32pm
Could we get back on topic, please? Any discussion of whether food stamps should (not) be used for pet food belongs in the IMO forum, not Cat Nutrition.

Anybody with the minimum number of posts (100) and duration of membership (1 month) can reopen the discussion there.

Thank you.
Reply
post #29 of 37
9/8/11 at 12:31am
Thread Starter 
...yeah. Sorry about that. I get on my soapbox sometimes.

Uhm. So... let's see. Eggs, organ meat, chicken... No bones; I'm not risking bones. Goat's milk is safe, but expensive--what about lactose-free milk? Is it the lactose that bothers cats; and would lactose-free milk be nutritious?

I've given Tiny a few licks of butter on occasion, especially during the winter when it was all cold and dry. I'm guessing butter is safe because it's milk fat, not milk sugar...

Canned chicken? Tuna? I wouldn't want to feed tuna often because of the mercury; what about canned salmon--same problem?
Reply
post #30 of 37
9/8/11 at 3:44am
That "reminder" wasn't actually directed at you in particular. It would be a good IMO topic, though.

In addition to raw feeding, you could try some home-cooked cat food a couple of times a week as a supplement to commercial foods. I do this on an occasional basis for cats - Jamie won't touch raw and is on prescription food to prevent more struvite crystals, but he enjoys some "people food", as does Miezi. All the dogs we've had got home-cooked food, but cats are trickier.

From what I understand, canned salmon, like tuna, is okay once in a while, but the farmed salmon often contains residue from antibiotics (doesn't that sound familiar?) Lactose-free milk, like cat milk, is considered a treat rather than a regular part of the diet. Our Whiskas cat milk addict doesn't believe that, though.

This is a collection taken/adapted from other sources: Home-Prepared Cat Food You may be able to get the books listed at the library. I use some Anitra Frazier recipes.
Reply
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Cat Nutrition
TheCatSite.com › Forums › Our Feline Companions › Cat Nutrition › Can you feed cats without buying cat food?